History YMMV / NewGods

5th Jan '18 4:37:11 PM NightShade96
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** Darkseid: God of Evil or a necessary evil, given how without him in charge, his minions plunge Apokalips into civil war.

to:

** Darkseid: God of Evil GodOfEvil or a necessary evil, given how without him in charge, his minions plunge Apokalips into civil war.



** Forever People, who were Kirby's attempt to write hippies. Most New God fans hate them and consider them to worst part of the franchise.
* CreatorsPet: [[http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=5903 Takion.]] Stuck out like a sore thumb, completely overpowered, whiny, derivative, a [[CanonForeigner retroactive addition]]... so of course he gets to become the [[LegacyCharacter new Highfather]] and get Beautiful Dreamer as a girlfriend. Most fans ignore him or portray him as [[http://mightygodking.com/images/dong1/donewgods1-20.jpg laughably ineffectual.]]

to:

** The Forever People, who were Kirby's attempt to write hippies. Most New God fans hate them and consider them to worst part of the franchise.
* CreatorsPet: CreatorsPet:
**
[[http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=5903 Takion.]] Stuck out like a sore thumb, completely overpowered, whiny, derivative, a [[CanonForeigner retroactive addition]]... so of course he gets to become the [[LegacyCharacter new Highfather]] and get Beautiful Dreamer as a girlfriend. Most fans ignore him or portray him as [[http://mightygodking.com/images/dong1/donewgods1-20.jpg laughably ineffectual.]]



** Darkseid, who became one of the DCU's most popular villains, and Mr. Miracle, whose book was the only one of the original ''New God'' books '''not''' to be canceled. Let's not forget he's the reason why ComicBook/{{Thanos}} existed [[spoiler:after the idea was changed from being based on another New God, Metron]].
** Mr Miracle, who's book outlasted both New Gods and Forever People.

to:

** Darkseid, ComicBook/{{Darkseid}}, who became one of the DCU's most popular villains, and Mr. Miracle, whose book was the only one of the original ''New God'' books '''not''' to be canceled. Let's not forget he's the reason why ComicBook/{{Thanos}} existed [[spoiler:after the idea was changed from being based on another New God, Metron]].
** Mr Miracle, who's whose book outlasted both New Gods ''New Gods'' and Forever People.''Forever People''.



** Lashina was barely an afterthought in the initial run, but she's fetish material and was a regular in the Comicbook/SuicideSquad, which upped her profile dramatically.
* FanonDiscontinuity: Anything not written by Kirby has at least some people who claim this ([[CriticalResearchFailure sometimes]] [[MainstreamObscurity justified]]). Compounding the problem is that Kirby's work in canon is often treated with BroadStrokes, at best. Starlin's ''Death Of The New Gods'' in particular is often lumped in with ''Countdown'' as being this to Comicbook/FinalCrisis. About the only successor works that people seem to have some acceptance for is Walt Simonson and Grant Morrison's takes (who at least seemed to have their hearts in the right place even if they didn't totally get it).

to:

** Lashina was barely an afterthought in the initial run, but she's fetish material and was a regular in the Comicbook/SuicideSquad, ComicBook/SuicideSquad, which upped her profile dramatically.
* FanonDiscontinuity: Anything not written by Kirby has at least some people who claim this ([[CriticalResearchFailure sometimes]] [[MainstreamObscurity justified]]). Compounding the problem is that Kirby's work in canon is often treated with BroadStrokes, at best. Starlin's ''Death Of The New Gods'' in particular is often lumped in with ''Countdown'' as being this to Comicbook/FinalCrisis.''ComicBook/FinalCrisis''. About the only successor works that people seem to have some acceptance for is Walt Simonson and Grant Morrison's takes (who at least seemed to have their hearts in the right place even if they didn't totally get it).



** While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn?). Indeed it took the Franchise/{{DCAU}} to give a more Kirby-accurate approach and thanks to the latter's popularity, to the extent that people know the Anti-Life Equation (from the DCAU) it's one that is accurate to Kirby.
** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid, which might cause some TheyCopiedItSoItSucks if Darkseid himself appears at some point in the ''Film/DCExtendedUniverse'' post-''Film/{{Justice League|2017}}''.
* MyRealDaddy: A contentious example. Some think [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight only Kirby's work is really worth reading]]. According to Creator/MarkEvanier, Kirby himself was rather open to other artists using his concepts and ideas, and he initially hoped that the New Gods would be its own genre that others contribute and build on, and was okay with Darkseid becoming the GreaterScopeVillain to the DC Universe, even if he ideally wished he could complete his series.

to:

** While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn?). Indeed Indeed, it took the Franchise/{{DCAU}} Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse to give a more Kirby-accurate approach and thanks to the latter's popularity, to the extent that people know the Anti-Life Equation (from the DCAU) it's one that is accurate to Kirby.
** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, ''Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse'', to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', and likewise it inspired ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid, which might cause some TheyCopiedItSoItSucks if Darkseid himself appears at some point in the ''Film/DCExtendedUniverse'' post-''Film/{{Justice League|2017}}''.
* MyRealDaddy: MyRealDaddy:
**
A contentious example. Some think [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight only Kirby's work is really worth reading]]. According to Creator/MarkEvanier, Kirby himself was rather open to other artists using his concepts and ideas, and he initially hoped that the New Gods would be its own genre that others contribute and build on, and was okay with Darkseid becoming the GreaterScopeVillain to the DC Universe, even if he ideally wished he could complete his series.



* NightmareFuel:
** Happyland, from the original ''Forever People'' series. An amusement park where people are tortured, and machines project their screams to people outside as ''fun and laughter''. And the creepiest thing is, ''the children all realise something isn't right'', but the adults refuse to see it.
** Granny Goodness. Dear God, Granny Goodness. What to say about someone whose entire purpose is basically child abuse?
*** In Final Crisis, when Granny Goodness's reduced to an evil spirit, who possesses a Green Lantern and creates centipede energy constructs.
*** Her capturing Batman also counts, as far as Granny not only single-handedly defeating Batman but also her speech where she exclaims how completely and utterly screwed Batman is now that she has him prisoner.



** The Forever People; Kirby's idea of space hippies was a complete flop with fans and the series is considered (along with the Jimmy Olsen installments of the original Fourth World Saga) the weakest and least liked part of the franchise.

to:

** The Forever People; Kirby's idea of space hippies was a complete flop with fans and the series is considered (along with the Jimmy Olsen ''Jimmy Olsen'' installments of the original Fourth World ''Fourth World'' Saga) the weakest and least liked part of the franchise.
26th Nov '17 1:00:46 AM JulianLapostat
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Takion and Grayven, both {{Canon Foreigner}}s who either distract from Kirby's creations or represent ongoing attempts to keep the original setting relevant.

to:

* BaseBreakingCharacter: BaseBreakingCharacter:
**
Takion and Grayven, both {{Canon Foreigner}}s who either distract from Kirby's creations or represent ongoing attempts to keep the original setting relevant.



* MyRealDaddy: A contentious example. Some think [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight only Kirby's work is really worth reading]].

to:

* MyRealDaddy: A contentious example. Some think [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight only Kirby's work is really worth reading]]. According to Creator/MarkEvanier, Kirby himself was rather open to other artists using his concepts and ideas, and he initially hoped that the New Gods would be its own genre that others contribute and build on, and was okay with Darkseid becoming the GreaterScopeVillain to the DC Universe, even if he ideally wished he could complete his series.
25th Nov '17 7:08:03 PM MirrorNoir
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**Orion: Some fans consider spoiled pampered prince who was given EVERYTHING at the expense of Mr Miracle (who was exiled to a hell beyond all imagination by his father) and who whines over how "hard" he has it growing up in paradise, while treating everyone around him (most notably Forager and the JLA/Superman) like garbage.
**Metron is a secret villain who exploits the war between New Genesis and Apokalips for his own amusement, let alone using it to further his experiments in science via the war.
**Darkseid: God of Evil or a necessary evil, given how without him in charge, his minions plunge Apokalips into civil war.



** Forever People, who were Kirby's attempt to write hippies. Most New God fans hate them and consider them to worst part of the franchise.



** The Forever People were Kirby's take on heroic hippies.

to:

** The Forever People were Kirby's **Starlin's contributions to the New Gods (Cosmic Odyssey, Death of the New Gods). Also, Tom King's Mr Miracle is considered this by some. King's version of Orion continues Starlin's take on heroic hippies.the character, which presents Orion as a Grade-A jerk who treats everyone around him like trash.



** Mr Miracle, who's book outlasted both New Gods and Forever People.



** Despite the fact that Jim Starlin and John Byrne have written extensively for the characters, their work is usually not held in as high a regard.
** Judging by the acclaim his Mister Miracle miniseries is already recieving, Tom King may be on his way to this.

to:

** Despite the fact that Jim Starlin and John Byrne have written extensively for the characters, their work is usually not held in as high a regard.
** Judging by the acclaim his Mister
regard. Tom King's Mr Miracle miniseries is already recieving, Tom King may be on his way mini-series, while commercially and critically acclaimed, falls in with Byrne and Starlin's run in the eyes of Kirby purists, due to this.him using interpretations of the characters that originated under Starlin's run.



** The Forever People; Kirby's idea of space hippies was a complete flop with fans and the series is considered (along with the Jimmy Olsen installments of the original Fourth World Saga) the weakest and least liked part of the franchise.



** The Newsboy Legion. Their antics and shenanigans were usually more annoying than funny and their stories were often the weakest of Kirby's Fourth World saga entries.

to:

** The Newsboy Legion. Their antics and shenanigans were usually more annoying Orion gets this from some fans, due to Starlin's less than funny flattering portrayal of him and their stories were often the weakest fact that Grant Morrison jetisoned pretty much all aspects of Kirby's Fourth World saga entries. his personality to turn him into a brainless barbarian who made Guy Gardner look like a paragon of self-restraint.
1st Nov '17 10:03:50 AM Saveelich
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** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid, which might cause some TheyCopiedItSoItSucks if Darkseid himself appears at some point in the ''Film/DCExtendedUniverse'' after ''Film/{{Justice League|2017}}''.

to:

** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid, which might cause some TheyCopiedItSoItSucks if Darkseid himself appears at some point in the ''Film/DCExtendedUniverse'' after ''Film/{{Justice post-''Film/{{Justice League|2017}}''.
1st Nov '17 10:03:13 AM Saveelich
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** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ''ComicBook/{{Thanos}}'' who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid.

to:

** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ''ComicBook/{{Thanos}}'' ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid.Darkseid, which might cause some TheyCopiedItSoItSucks if Darkseid himself appears at some point in the ''Film/DCExtendedUniverse'' after ''Film/{{Justice League|2017}}''.
11th Sep '17 6:54:28 PM BeastMan17
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Added DiffLines:

**Judging by the acclaim his Mister Miracle miniseries is already recieving, Tom King may be on his way to this.
8th Sep '17 10:20:57 PM JulianLapostat
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* MainstreamObscurity: While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn?)
** One of the inspirations of He0Man, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell.

to:

* MainstreamObscurity: MainstreamObscurity:
**
While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn?)
porn?). Indeed it took the Franchise/{{DCAU}} to give a more Kirby-accurate approach and thanks to the latter's popularity, to the extent that people know the Anti-Life Equation (from the DCAU) it's one that is accurate to Kirby.
** One The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of He0Man, Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse, to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a New Gods story before falling into DevelopmentHell.DevelopmentHell. It was also arguably an inspiration for ''Franchise/StarWars'', likewise it inspired ''ComicBook/{{Thanos}}'' who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid.
8th Sep '17 9:20:36 AM BeastC
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Added DiffLines:

* {{Narm}}: With a name like the Black Racer, of course you're expecting...[[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28855/1610037-black_racer_06.jpg a black guy in a suit of armor adorned in primary colors]].
31st Aug '17 6:56:54 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* BaseBreaker: Takion and Grayven, both [[CanonForeigner Canon Foreigners]] who either distract from Kirby's creations or represent ongoing attempts to keep the original setting relevant.
** SuperYoungTeam was intended to be an update/reincarnation of the Forever People.

to:

* BaseBreaker: BaseBreakingCharacter: Takion and Grayven, both [[CanonForeigner Canon Foreigners]] {{Canon Foreigner}}s who either distract from Kirby's creations or represent ongoing attempts to keep the original setting relevant.
** SuperYoungTeam was intended to be an update/reincarnation of the Forever People.
relevant.
31st Aug '17 6:54:23 PM Gregzilla
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* MainstreamObscurity: While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn? WTF?!)

to:

* MainstreamObscurity: While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' [[CriticalResearchFailure does not work that way!]]) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn? WTF?!)porn?)
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