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* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].

to:

* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].attackers]].
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Changed: 589

Removed: 666

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CM needs forum approval. Not YMMV.


* CompleteMonster: Niven says in the afterword of ''Flatlander'' that he tries to avoid creating completely evil characters. He says that Loren, the organlegger in "Death by Ecstasy" was his first, and that he fully deserved his fate. It still kept him awake for a few nights after he wrote it.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].
* SuccessThroughInsanity: In Larry Niven's ''Madness Has Its Place'', Jack Strather's megalomania and paranoid schizophrenia make him one of the few men left on Earth with the cojones to actually resist the invading Kzinti.

to:

* CompleteMonster: Niven says in the afterword of ''Flatlander'' that he tries to avoid creating completely evil characters. He says that Loren, the organlegger in "Death by Ecstasy" was his first, and that he fully deserved his fate. It still kept him awake for a few nights after he wrote it.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].
* SuccessThroughInsanity: In Larry Niven's ''Madness Has Its Place'', Jack Strather's megalomania and paranoid schizophrenia make him one of the few men left on Earth with the cojones to actually resist the invading Kzinti.
attackers]].
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* IdiotPlot: The plot of "Neutron Star" depends on pretty much every named character not expecting tidal forces around neutron stars, despite such forces being clearly understood in the 1960s, when the story was written.
** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to expect such a strong tide.

Added: 295

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Added new trope and example.


* CompleteMonster: Niven says in the afterword of ''Flatlander'' that he tries to avoid creating completely evil characters. He says that Loren, the organlegger in "Death by Ecstasy" was his first, and that he fully deserved his fate. It still kept him awake for a few nights after he wrote it.



** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.expect such a strong tide.
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Please use the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread to propose characters before writing their entries. Magnificent Bastard entries not approved by the thread will be deleted.


* MagnificentBastard: Ol't'ro.
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* MagnificentBastard: Ol't'ro.

to:

* MagnificentBastard: Ol't'ro.Ol't'ro.
* SuccessThroughInsanity: In Larry Niven's ''Madness Has Its Place'', Jack Strather's megalomania and paranoid schizophrenia make him one of the few men left on Earth with the cojones to actually resist the invading Kzinti.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''[[Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''[[Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' ''Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' ''[[Literature/JugglerOfWorlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''[[Literature/{{Crashlander}}]]'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''[[Literature/{{Crashlander}}]]'' ''Literature/{{Crashlander}}'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Crashlander'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Crashlander'' ''[[Literature/{{Crashlander}}]]'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].

to:

* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''{{Ringworld}}'' ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].
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* MagnificentBastard: Ol't'ro.
* MarySue: Peace Corben from the Man-Kzin Wars stories, ''in spades''.

to:

* MagnificentBastard: Ol't'ro.
* MarySue: Peace Corben from the Man-Kzin Wars stories, ''in spades''.
Ol't'ro.
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None


** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Crashlander'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still' pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in ''Crashlander'' and ''Juggler of Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still' still pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

Changed: 87

Removed: 651

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* UnfortunateImplications: There are an awful lot of species with non-sentient females.
** Justified in most cases, though. The Puppeteer "females" are actually a separate species that the puppeteers use to incubate fertilized eggs (in the same manner that predatory wasps will use a paralyzed caterpillar to incubate ''their eggs''), and the Kzinti had selectively bred for non-sentient females for several thousand years using genetic technology they stole from a more advance race.
*** Also, this comes back to bite the Kzin in the ass on more than one occasion, when they underestimate both Kzin and human females. So...Fortunate Implications?
** On the other hand, the Grog are a sentient alien species whose ''males'' are non-sentient.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: There are an awful lot of species with non-sentient females.
** Justified in most cases, though. The Puppeteer "females" are actually a separate species that the puppeteers use to incubate fertilized eggs (in the same manner that predatory wasps will use a paralyzed caterpillar to incubate ''their eggs''), and the Kzinti had selectively bred for non-sentient females for several thousand years using genetic technology they stole from a more advance race.
*** Also, this comes back to bite the Kzin in the ass on more than one occasion, when they underestimate both Kzin and human females. So...Fortunate Implications?
** On the other hand, the Grog are a sentient alien species whose ''males'' are non-sentient.
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* JumpTheShark: Ever since Carlos Wu's autodoc was introduced in "Procrustes", it became a {{MacGuffin}} that allows everybody who possesses it to solve all their problems with {{nanotechnology}}.
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* JumpTheShark: Ever since Carlos Wu's autodoc was introduced in "Procrustes", it became a {{MacGuffin}} that allows everybody who possesses it to solve all their problems with {{nanotechnology}}.
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This isn\'t YMMV. Moving.


* CanonDiscontinuity: Creator/GregoryBenford's ''Man-Kzin Wars'' story "A Darker Geometry". [[WordOfGod Niven]] said its depiction of the Puppeteers and Outsiders was non-canon shortly after it was published, and subsequently {{Jossed}} it in the ''Fleet of Worlds'' trilogy. Also see RetCon below.
*** The Peace Corben stories likewise, mostly due to having the Outsiders and Pak be Tnuctipun bioweapons, among numerous lesser continuity gaffes and issues.
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* CanonDiscontinuity: GregoryBenford's ''Man-Kzin Wars'' story "A Darker Geometry". [[WordOfGod Niven]] said its depiction of the Puppeteers and Outsiders was non-canon shortly after it was published, and subsequently {{Jossed}} it in the ''Fleet of Worlds'' trilogy. Also see RetCon below.

to:

* CanonDiscontinuity: GregoryBenford's Creator/GregoryBenford's ''Man-Kzin Wars'' story "A Darker Geometry". [[WordOfGod Niven]] said its depiction of the Puppeteers and Outsiders was non-canon shortly after it was published, and subsequently {{Jossed}} it in the ''Fleet of Worlds'' trilogy. Also see RetCon below.

Added: 432

Changed: 8

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** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in Crashlander and Juggler of Worlds to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still' pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

to:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in Crashlander ''Crashlander'' and Juggler ''Juggler of Worlds Worlds'' to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still' pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.this.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: There are two things preventing ''Fate of Worlds'' from being a satisfactory conclusion to the ''{{Ringworld}}'' series: Louis is mostly only a passive observer of events, just like he was in ''The Ringworld Throne'', and the ending is essentially the same as that of ''Ringworld's Children'' in that it involves [[spoiler:moving multiple-planet-sized objects through hyperspace to get away from attackers]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Although "Neutron Star" was retconned later in Crashlander and Juggler of Worlds to be a limited perspective on a deeper Puppeteer/ARM game where the only person not truly aware of the tidal force was Beowulf. It's still' pretty dumb of a pilot not to know this.

Changed: 102

Removed: 238

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Justified in most cases, though. The Puppeteer "females" are actually a separate species that the puppeteers use to incubate fertilized eggs, and the Kzinti had selectively bred for non-sentient females for several thousand years using genetic technology they stole from a more advance race.
*They are not tchnically female, and we do see sentient pupeter females, Nessus is female, she just put sher eggs in another species to reproduce. [[Squick Imagine humans who reproduce by a man and a woman both mating with a chimpanzee]],

to:

** Justified in most cases, though. The Puppeteer "females" are actually a separate species that the puppeteers use to incubate fertilized eggs, eggs (in the same manner that predatory wasps will use a paralyzed caterpillar to incubate ''their eggs''), and the Kzinti had selectively bred for non-sentient females for several thousand years using genetic technology they stole from a more advance race.
*They are not tchnically female, and we do see sentient pupeter females, Nessus is female, she just put sher eggs in another species to reproduce. [[Squick Imagine humans who reproduce by a man and a woman both mating with a chimpanzee]],
race.
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None

Added DiffLines:

*They are not tchnically female, and we do see sentient pupeter females, Nessus is female, she just put sher eggs in another species to reproduce. [[Squick Imagine humans who reproduce by a man and a woman both mating with a chimpanzee]],
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None




Added DiffLines:

* IdiotPlot: The plot of "Neutron Star" depends on pretty much every named character not expecting tidal forces around neutron stars, despite such forces being clearly understood in the 1960s, when the story was written.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Discontinuity}}: [[IncrediblyLamePun The sensation of being put into stasis.]] But seriously:
** CanonDiscontinuity: GregoryBenford's ''Man-Kzin Wars'' story "A Darker Geometry". [[WordOfGod Niven]] said its depiction of the Puppeteers and Outsiders was non-canon shortly after it was published, and subsequently {{Jossed}} it in the ''Fleet of Worlds'' trilogy. Also see RetCon below.

to:


* {{Discontinuity}}: [[IncrediblyLamePun The sensation of being put into stasis.]] But seriously:
**
CanonDiscontinuity: GregoryBenford's ''Man-Kzin Wars'' story "A Darker Geometry". [[WordOfGod Niven]] said its depiction of the Puppeteers and Outsiders was non-canon shortly after it was published, and subsequently {{Jossed}} it in the ''Fleet of Worlds'' trilogy. Also see RetCon below.

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