History YMMV / Homestuck

27th Jul '16 11:36:09 AM kyeo
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** For those who had been hoping for an ending on the Dave/Terezi/Karkat love triangle, whether they ship Dave/Terezi or Karakt/Terezi, the sudden introduction of Dave/Karkat in the reboot timeline comes off as this. Especially with all the development happening off-screen and there being no real foreshadowing for it prior to then.

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** For those who had been hoping for an ending on the Dave/Terezi/Karkat love triangle, whether they ship Dave/Terezi or Karakt/Terezi, the sudden introduction of Dave/Karkat in the reboot timeline comes off as this. Especially with all the development happening off-screen and there being no real foreshadowing for it prior to then. Of course, Dave/Karkat shippers then point to the time when they [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything drew dicks together...]]
26th Jul '16 10:53:54 PM crankers
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** Bro was[[note]]very late in the comic, Dave explicitly calls Bro abusive, and as such, it's rare to discuss him as anything buy a CompleteMonster[[/note]] the most popular Guardian, and Karkat's lusus is the most popular lusus. Ironically, Bro's post-Scratch self, Dirk, is rather divisive.

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** Bro was[[note]]very late in the comic, Dave explicitly calls Bro abusive, and as such, it's rare to discuss him as anything buy but a CompleteMonster[[/note]] the most popular Guardian, and Karkat's lusus is the most popular lusus. Ironically, Bro's post-Scratch self, Dirk, is rather divisive.
26th Jul '16 9:19:31 PM DustSnitch
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** John/Vriska was perhaps the most [[BrokenBase Base Breaking]] ship in the fandom, and John and Vriska both were slightly StrangledByTheRedString and acting out of character during it. In Act 6, both John and Vriska independently and completely discard the romance, and decide to be friends.

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** John/Vriska was perhaps the most [[BrokenBase Base Breaking]] ship in the fandom, and John and Vriska both were slightly StrangledByTheRedString and acting out of character during it. In Act 6, both John and Vriska independently and completely discard the romance, and decide to be friends.romance.



*** Gamzee is a fairly divisive character, especially given that much of the unfortunate events that occur happen indirectly because of his involvement. It certainly doesn't help that he killed one of the biggest EnsembleDarkhorse characters in the series.

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*** Gamzee is a fairly divisive character, especially given that much of the unfortunate events that occur happen indirectly because of his involvement. It certainly doesn't help that he killed one of the biggest EnsembleDarkhorse characters in the series. In a possible nod to the fandom, a RunningGag has developed since then of characters in-universe saying things along the lines of "yeah, fuck that guy."



** With the advent of the [[FanNickname Great Shooshpapping of 2011]], the fandom is divided over Gamzee and the fate he deserves. In a possible nod to the fandom, a RunningGag has developed since then of characters in-universe saying things along the lines of "yeah, fuck that guy."



** The Act 6 Interfishin. Because no backstory is too important not to be interrupted by a bunch of trolls playing an elevator song on a pirate ship in space.

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** The Act 6 Interfishin. Because no backstory is too important not to be interrupted by a bunch of trolls playing an elevator song on a pirate ship in space.



** Act 6. Going by controversy, roughly in order: Are the new kids dull and too similar to already-existing characters with even more romance issues than the trolls, or do they fit along nicely with the other players and this is just going to go over like the trolls themselves when it's over? Are their romance issues in question boring, irrelevant ship bait that gets in the way of the plot or appropriate for the comic's coming of age genre and leading into the main storyline? Who is more amusing: Calliope, or Caliborn? Are ten of the new trolls justified joke/two-dimensional characters or an even bigger, less likable expansion to the cast? ''Should'' they be major characters? Is Condesce an engaging villain or a racist stereotype? As detailed on its own below, was the Trickster arc a fun tribute to fans or an obnoxious series of pages that shows that the writing quality of the whole comic is going down? Does Aranea make for an interesting villain? And, as a whole, is the pacing too slow, too ''fast'' (and skipping over everything), or just right? Was John's retconning of Vriska's death (and by extension much of the beta kids' and trolls' experiences in Act 6) an interesting plot development with room to have reaching consequences, or did it singlehandedly undo Terezi's character development, nullify Vriska's, potentially inhibit other characters' and make huge swathes of Act 6 a waste of time, purely to resurrect a wholly intentional, deliberately overpushed BaseBreakingCharacter? And for the act as a whole, is this a satisfying continuation that plays around with what was known about the setting, or is it what ruined the whole story? Managing to trump even Act 5 in length in page count and taking even ''longer'' time-wise thanks to a number of hiatuses does not help this at all.

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** Act 6. Going by controversy, roughly in order: Are the new kids dull and too similar to already-existing characters with even more romance issues than the trolls, or do they fit along nicely with the other players and this is just going to go over like the trolls themselves when it's over? Are their romance issues in question boring, irrelevant ship bait that gets in the way of the plot or appropriate for the comic's coming of age genre and leading into the main storyline? Who is more amusing: Calliope, or Caliborn? Are ten of the new trolls justified joke/two-dimensional characters or an even bigger, less likable expansion to the cast? ''Should'' they be major characters? Is Condesce an engaging villain or a racist stereotype? As detailed on its own below, was the Trickster arc a fun tribute to fans or an obnoxious series of pages that shows that the writing quality of the whole comic is going down? Does Aranea make for an interesting villain? And, as a whole, is the pacing too slow, too ''fast'' (and skipping over everything), or just right? Was John's retconning of Vriska's death (and by extension much of the beta kids' and trolls' experiences in Act 6) an interesting plot development with room to have reaching consequences, or did it singlehandedly undo Terezi's character development, nullify Vriska's, potentially inhibit other characters' and make huge swathes of Act 6 a waste of time, purely to resurrect a wholly intentional, deliberately overpushed BaseBreakingCharacter? And for the act as a whole, is this a satisfying continuation that plays around with what was known about the setting, or is it what ruined the whole story? Managing to trump even Act 5 in length in page count and taking even ''longer'' time-wise thanks to a number of hiatuses does not help this at all.



** Rose developing a drinking problem during Act 6. One side felt it added some great laughs, and also a certain sadness to Rose who admitted to doing it as a sort of twisted reminder about her mother, setting her and Roxy as NotSoDifferent. Others feel that the whole thing's out-of-character, a waste of time and just another reason to make pointless drama in the comic that could be easily solved by other characters, who do nothing to help. Then the Retcon happened, and Vriska kicks her off the booze. Some are happy to see Rose back on her feet and functional again, while others feel the whole arc's been thrown out, and it was a just big waste of time (especially as that particular Rose has become Jasprosesprite^2, who's never really affected by her previous alcoholism).
** The pacing has become this as of late Act 6, with many fans thinking that the comic is getting too drawn out and starting to waste time on pointless nonsense while many others still appreciate the emphasis on character conversations and development. The fact that the comic is supposed to be very close to it's finale is making this worse. Hussie openly admitting that he's in no hurry to get the comic done has only served to fan the flames.

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** Rose developing a drinking problem during during, surprise surprise, Act 6. One side felt it added some great laughs, and also a certain sadness to Rose who admitted to doing it as a sort of twisted reminder about her mother, setting her and Roxy as NotSoDifferent. Others feel that the whole thing's out-of-character, a waste of time and just another reason to make pointless drama in the comic that could be easily solved by other characters, who do nothing to help. Then the Retcon happened, and Vriska kicks her off the booze. Some are happy to see Rose back on her feet and functional again, while others feel the whole arc's been thrown out, and it was a just big waste of time (especially as that particular Rose has become Jasprosesprite^2, who's never really affected by her previous alcoholism).
** The pacing has become this as of late Act 6, with many fans thinking that the comic is getting too drawn out and starting to waste time on pointless nonsense while many others still appreciate the emphasis on character conversations and development. The fact that the comic is supposed to be very close to it's finale is making this worse. Hussie openly admitting that he's in no hurry to get the comic done has only served to fan the flames.



** Spades Slick gets a minor version of this, as his sympathetic traits are often played up by fans. While in canon he's ''definitely'' the most heroic and sympathetic iteration of Jack Noir, he's still a belligerent {{Jerkass}} mobster with a love of [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill overkill]]. Heck the Midnight Crew in general gets this; they ''are'' [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Ineffectual Sympathetic Villains]] and have plenty of PetTheDog moments, they're also a group of gangsters who are introduced trying to off the competition (not that [[BigBad Lord English]] doesn't deserve it).

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** Spades Slick gets a minor version of this, as his sympathetic traits are often played up by fans. While in canon he's ''definitely'' the most heroic and sympathetic iteration of Jack Noir, he's still a belligerent {{Jerkass}} mobster with a love of [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill overkill]]. Heck the Midnight Crew in general gets this; they ''are'' [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Ineffectual Sympathetic Villains]] and have plenty of PetTheDog moments, they're also a group of gangsters who are introduced trying to off the competition (not that [[BigBad Lord English]] doesn't deserve it). Especially prominent upon his rather sudden death.



** Bro is the most popular Guardian, and Karkat's lusus is the most popular lusus. Ironically, Bro's post-Scratch self, Dirk, is rather divisive.

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** Bro is was[[note]]very late in the comic, Dave explicitly calls Bro abusive, and as such, it's rare to discuss him as anything buy a CompleteMonster[[/note]] the most popular Guardian, and Karkat's lusus is the most popular lusus. Ironically, Bro's post-Scratch self, Dirk, is rather divisive.



** Meenah is very popular among the CastHerd that is the A1 trolls. Porrim has a boatload of fans as well, [[MsFanservice unsurprisingly]].

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** Meenah Porrim is very popular among the CastHerd that is the A1 trolls. Porrim has a boatload of fans as well, trolls, [[MsFanservice unsurprisingly]].



* FauxSymbolism: The trolls are each associated with a zodiac sign. The kids each have an element. Everyone has a DNA pair. And none of it matters.
** A good amount of these do have symbolic significance. For example, the Cruxite Artifacts of each kid represent their individual departures, both into the Medium and from their old ways of life. In John's case, the apple represents the abandonment of innocence in favor of knowledge (additionally, knowledge and deep thought are associated with Air). For Rose, the bottle represents a leap of faith (appropriately, she jumped off a waterfall to retrieve it) and the necessity to trust her server player, Dave. Traditionally, bottles are also used to christen new vessels at sea, tying it into her classical element as well. Dave's is an egg that must be given enough time to hatch, tying in to his larger bird motif and his storyline seeking an identity separate from his Bro. Jade has a tree, like her brother John, but this one drops a Bec-shaped pinata that she has to break--like how prototyping Bec subsequently breaks the game and forces the Scratch.

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* FauxSymbolism: The trolls are each associated with a zodiac sign. The kids each have an element. Everyone has a DNA pair. And none of it matters.
** A
matters.[[labelnote: On the other hand...]]A good amount of these do have symbolic significance. For example, the Cruxite Artifacts of each kid represent their individual departures, both into the Medium and from their old ways of life. In John's case, the apple represents the abandonment of innocence in favor of knowledge (additionally, knowledge and deep thought are associated with Air). For Rose, the bottle represents a leap of faith (appropriately, she jumped off a waterfall to retrieve it) and the necessity to trust her server player, Dave. Traditionally, bottles are also used to christen new vessels at sea, tying it into her classical element as well. Dave's is an egg that must be given enough time to hatch, tying in to his larger bird motif and his storyline seeking an identity separate from his Bro. Jade has a tree, like her brother John, but this one drops a Bec-shaped pinata that she has to break--like how prototyping Bec subsequently breaks the game and forces the Scratch.[[/labelnote]]
26th Jul '16 8:58:43 PM DustSnitch
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* AssPull: Some plot developments are dubiously this, given that Andrew often writes unforeseen twists simply because it's fun. Many of them fall into "retroactive foreshadowing", as it is often referred to, but at the time of writing were still largely pulled from nowhere. Davesprite's survival is perhaps the biggest example of an AssPull (in Acts 1-5 at least), though many others exist. This unfortunately becomes more prominent in Act 6.
** Davesprite's survival is not an example of an ass pull. It had previously been established by Nannasprite that a sprite could retreat into their pendant, and when Jade uses her goggles to find Dave, she is shown Davesprite's blood splattered pendant. This was a clue that Davesprite had survived his encounter with Bec Noir.
23rd Jul '16 4:25:19 PM Steam_Lord
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** Was Dualscar's {{Wangst}} legitimate or was Mindfang just being dismissive?

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** Was Dualscar's Darkleer's {{Wangst}} legitimate or was Mindfang just being dismissive?
23rd Jul '16 4:15:59 PM DoctorFlygon
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** Is Bro's relationship with Dave a friendly brotherly rivalry, or is he an abusive father? When Act 6 Act 5 Intermission 5 rolls around and Dirk and Dave do sit down and talk, Dave does view Bro's mannerisms, attitudes and training as abusive. Though the two also wonder how much of Bro's behavior was Dirk's own personality problems going unchecked in later life, and how much influence Lil' Cal (possessed by the amalgam that would grow to be Lord English) had upon him, seeing as he spent his entire life around the evil puppet.
** Was Darkleer's {{Wangst}} legitimate or was Mindfang just being dismissive?

to:

** Is Bro's relationship with Dave a friendly brotherly rivalry, or is he an abusive father? When Act 6 Act 5 6 Intermission 5 rolls around and Dirk and Dave do sit down and talk, Dave does view Bro's mannerisms, attitudes and training as abusive. Though the two also wonder how much of Bro's behavior was Dirk's own personality problems going unchecked in later life, and how much influence Lil' Cal (possessed by the amalgam that would grow to be Lord English) had upon him, seeing as he spent his entire life around the evil puppet.
** Was Darkleer's Dualscar's {{Wangst}} legitimate or was Mindfang just being dismissive?
16th Jul '16 3:28:11 AM Anddrix
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*** Specifically in this arc, there's the matter of the sudden focus on Vriska, who was up to then unseen and unmentioned character. The implementation of the character in this arc (as well as the arc immediately following this one) is what made the character such a BaseBreaker to begin with.

to:

*** Specifically in this arc, there's the matter of the sudden focus on Vriska, who was up to then unseen and unmentioned character. The implementation of the character in this arc (as well as the arc immediately following this one) is what made the character such a BaseBreaker BaseBreakingCharacter to begin with.



** Act 6. Going by controversy, roughly in order: Are the new kids dull and too similar to already-existing characters with even more romance issues than the trolls, or do they fit along nicely with the other players and this is just going to go over like the trolls themselves when it's over? Are their romance issues in question boring, irrelevant ship bait that gets in the way of the plot or appropriate for the comic's coming of age genre and leading into the main storyline? Who is more amusing: Calliope, or Caliborn? Are ten of the new trolls justified joke/two-dimensional characters or an even bigger, less likable expansion to the cast? ''Should'' they be major characters? Is Condesce an engaging villain or a racist stereotype? As detailed on its own below, was the Trickster arc a fun tribute to fans or an obnoxious series of pages that shows that the writing quality of the whole comic is going down? Does Aranea make for an interesting villain? And, as a whole, is the pacing too slow, too ''fast'' (and skipping over everything), or just right? Was John's retconning of Vriska's death (and by extension much of the beta kids' and trolls' experiences in Act 6) an interesting plot development with room to have reaching consequences, or did it singlehandedly undo Terezi's character development, nullify Vriska's, potentially inhibit other characters' and make huge swathes of Act 6 a waste of time, purely to resurrect a wholly intentional, deliberately overpushed BaseBreaker of a character? And for the act as a whole, is this a satisfying continuation that plays around with what was known about the setting, or is it what ruined the whole story? Managing to trump even Act 5 in length in page count and taking even ''longer'' time-wise thanks to a number of hiatuses does not help this at all.

to:

** Act 6. Going by controversy, roughly in order: Are the new kids dull and too similar to already-existing characters with even more romance issues than the trolls, or do they fit along nicely with the other players and this is just going to go over like the trolls themselves when it's over? Are their romance issues in question boring, irrelevant ship bait that gets in the way of the plot or appropriate for the comic's coming of age genre and leading into the main storyline? Who is more amusing: Calliope, or Caliborn? Are ten of the new trolls justified joke/two-dimensional characters or an even bigger, less likable expansion to the cast? ''Should'' they be major characters? Is Condesce an engaging villain or a racist stereotype? As detailed on its own below, was the Trickster arc a fun tribute to fans or an obnoxious series of pages that shows that the writing quality of the whole comic is going down? Does Aranea make for an interesting villain? And, as a whole, is the pacing too slow, too ''fast'' (and skipping over everything), or just right? Was John's retconning of Vriska's death (and by extension much of the beta kids' and trolls' experiences in Act 6) an interesting plot development with room to have reaching consequences, or did it singlehandedly undo Terezi's character development, nullify Vriska's, potentially inhibit other characters' and make huge swathes of Act 6 a waste of time, purely to resurrect a wholly intentional, deliberately overpushed BaseBreaker of a character? BaseBreakingCharacter? And for the act as a whole, is this a satisfying continuation that plays around with what was known about the setting, or is it what ruined the whole story? Managing to trump even Act 5 in length in page count and taking even ''longer'' time-wise thanks to a number of hiatuses does not help this at all.



** Gamzee, who had been a BaseBreaker due to killing [[EnsembleDarkhorse Nepeta and Equius]] and killing [[JerkassWoobie Karkat]] in [[BadFuture [S] GAME OVER]] gets thrown around, locked in a fridge during the battle in [S] Collide.

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** Gamzee, who had been a BaseBreaker BaseBreakingCharacter due to killing [[EnsembleDarkhorse Nepeta and Equius]] and killing [[JerkassWoobie Karkat]] in [[BadFuture [S] GAME OVER]] gets thrown around, locked in a fridge during the battle in [S] Collide.
3rd Jul '16 2:54:37 PM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: [[BigBad Caliborn]], better known by his title, [[BiggerBad Lord English]], killed his own sister through proxy, enslaved the Handmaid after his awakening, murdered the author out of spite in-story, and permanently killed hundreds of largely harmless doomed timeline characters. While his endgame is [[OmnicidalManiac destroying everything]], he also [[ForTheEvulz enjoys]] being a massive {{jerk|ass}}, wanting to completely obliterate his sister and all that she loved. While Caliborn's ancestor destroyed hundreds of planets and killed millions unprovoked, like his son, [[ItAmusedMe for his own amusement]], if Aranea's narration is to be believed, Caliborn is even worse.

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* CompleteMonster: [[BigBad Caliborn]], better known by his title, [[BiggerBad [[PhysicalGod Lord English]], killed Lord of Time and leader of the Felt, is an invincible, time-manipulating monstrosity summoned at the end of the universe, and is [[BigBad the one greatest threat in the story]]. Initially Caliborn, a [[{{Jerkass}} condescending cherub]] who set up the death of his own sister sister, he becomes much worse after maturing. Right after being summoned through proxy, enslaved the Handmaid after death of his awakening, servant Doc Scratch, English immediately sets out wreaking havoc. Using his powers of virtual omnipotence, English massacred the Horrorterrors, murdered the author [[AuthorAvatar Andrew Hussie]] out of spite in-story, from when he was still Caliborn, and permanently killed obliterated a dream bubble, annihilating the hundreds of largely harmless doomed failed timeline characters. While his endgame souls within and causing horrible damage to the fabric of reality. Ultimately, everything English does is a result of [[OmnicidalManiac destroying everything]], he also [[ForTheEvulz enjoys]] being a massive {{jerk|ass}}, wanting to completely obliterate his sister limitless desire for destruction and all to assure the destruction of everything that she loved. While Caliborn's ancestor destroyed hundreds of planets ever will be]], and killed millions unprovoked, like his son, [[ItAmusedMe for his own amusement]], if Aranea's narration English is to be believed, Caliborn is even worse.ultimately [[TheDreaded the one character feared and dreaded by everyone else]].
25th Jun '16 6:49:56 PM EhWhatCanYouDo
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**Davesprite's survival is not an example of an ass pull. It had previously been established by Nannasprite that a sprite could retreat into their pendant, and when Jade uses her goggles to find Dave, she is shown Davesprite's blood splattered pendant. This was a clue that Davesprite had survived his encounter with Bec Noir.



** Davesprite's apparent death prior to the end of the session caused a minor PlotHole, as sprite deaths are apparently an important game mechanic. Hussie corrected this by having Davesprite survive, though it now comes across as an AssPull to some.
24th Jun '16 11:43:13 AM DoctorFlygon
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** Many fans believe that Nepeta is somewhere on the autistic spectrum, both due to a line from Karkat and due to her [[AmbiguousDisorder behavior]].



* LoveToHate: Lord English. He's a rude, obnoxious, egotistical, self-centered, misogynistic, and creepy asshole/crime lord with no real redeeming qualities. And yet he's so freaking [[LaughablyEvil hilarious]] in nearly every appearance that pretty much no one truly hates the character.

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* LoveToHate: Lord English. Caliborn, known initially by his handle undyingumbrage. He's a rude, obnoxious, egotistical, self-centered, misogynistic, and creepy asshole/crime lord asshole with no real redeeming qualities. And yet he's so freaking [[LaughablyEvil hilarious]] in nearly every appearance that pretty much no one truly hates the character.
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