History YMMV / HeavyRain

3rd May '18 3:28:00 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: While the child-murdering Origami Killer is ultimately revealed to be [[spoiler: a tragic figure who still mourns the death of his brother]], such redeeming or sympathetic qualities cannot be found in these two especially depraved killers:
** [[FauxAffablyEvil Dr. Adrian Baker]], aka [[MadDoctor Doctor Death]], at first seems to be a harmless old man despite being a drug dealer and associate of crime boss Paco Mendez, but is in fact a sadistic torturer. A former surgeon who enjoys operations, Baker grows bored with retirement and becomes a SerialKiller who habitually kidnaps, tortured and dissects his victims to death with power tools, both for amusement and minor slights; from a man he suspected to be a government spy to an attempt on a Bible solicitor. Baker gets a kick on keeping his victims conscious as he kills them and implies that he's [[ILoveTheDead a necrophile]] as well when he takes an attraction to [[PlayerCharacter Madison Page]] and attempts to molest her if he thinks she's dead. Depending on the player's actions, Baker may end up killing Madison by sticking a power drill into her genitals.
** [[TaxidermyIsCreepy Leland White]] is the depraved titular SerialKiller of "The Taxidermist" prequel {{DLC}}, whom Madison investigates under suspicion of him being the Origami Killer, only to discover that he's somehow much more wicked. Seeming to be a quiet and lonely man, when Madison breaks into his house, it's discovered he murdered about a dozen women, whom he stuffs to preserve their bodies all around his house to keep as "[[LivingDollCollector dolls]]". The player can witness Leland talking to these corpses about new "friends" he has in mind to bring home. If alerted to Madison's presence, Leland will take a sadistic and childish joy in hunting her down, and gloating about adding her as part of his collection. Depending on the player's actions, he can either succeed in killing her (in the non canon endings) or potentially kills himself to avoid arrest should she escape.

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* CompleteMonster: While the child-murdering Origami Killer is ultimately revealed to be [[spoiler: a tragic figure who still mourns the death of his brother]], such redeeming or sympathetic qualities cannot be found in these two especially depraved killers:
** [[FauxAffablyEvil Dr. Adrian Baker]], aka [[MadDoctor Doctor Death]], at first seems to be a harmless old man despite being a drug dealer and associate of crime boss Paco Mendez, but is in fact a sadistic torturer. A former surgeon who enjoys operations, Baker grows bored with retirement and becomes a SerialKiller who habitually kidnaps, tortured and dissects his victims to death with power tools, both for amusement and minor slights; from a man he suspected to be a government spy to an attempt on a Bible solicitor. Baker gets a kick on keeping his victims conscious as he kills them and implies that he's [[ILoveTheDead a necrophile]] as well when he takes an attraction to [[PlayerCharacter Madison Page]] and attempts to molest her if he thinks she's dead. Depending on the player's actions, Baker may end up killing Madison by sticking a power drill into her genitals.
**
[[TaxidermyIsCreepy Leland White]] is the depraved titular SerialKiller of "The Taxidermist" prequel {{DLC}}, whom Madison investigates under suspicion of him being the Origami Killer, only to discover that he's somehow much more wicked. Seeming to be a quiet and lonely man, when Madison breaks into his house, it's discovered he murdered about a dozen women, whom he stuffs to preserve their bodies all around his house to keep as "[[LivingDollCollector dolls]]". The player can witness Leland talking to these corpses about new "friends" he has in mind to bring home. If alerted to Madison's presence, Leland will take a sadistic and childish joy in hunting her down, and gloating about adding her as part of his collection. Depending on the player's actions, he can either succeed in killing her (in the non canon endings) or potentially kills himself to avoid arrest should she escape.
1st May '18 1:10:43 AM tommythegun
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** Par for the course in a Quantic Dream work. [[spoiler:Madison]] has known [[spoiler:Ethan]], per the chapter timestamps, for 32 hours and 14 minutes — most of which she's spent tending to his repeated horrific injuries, helping him escape from police, hearing him admit he might be an insane killer with a split personality, and possibly (depending on the player's choice in a previous chapter) [[spoiler:hearing him admit that he just killed someone]] — before she's prepared to knock boots with him on the floor of a motel. In the same scene, her thoughts indicate she believes she's falling in love.
15th Mar '18 4:46:07 PM MagBas
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*** Although, allow this troper to argue; this is incredibly ropey as an explanation. For one, the story does not say that Grace divorced Ehan for trying to save Jason, and it's hardly uncommon for couples to be unable to overcome the loss of their children, leading to a divorce. Furthermore, Ethan's depressed state and lack of connection with Shaun would be indicate that he is not currently in a state to have custody of his son. And finally, Grace describes an event where Ethan suddenly walked into her home, mumbling about DROWNING BODIES after children went missing and were later found drowned by the Origami Killer. None of it is pleasant, but is any of it truly unreasonable?
15th Mar '18 4:23:22 PM DaleAndrew
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*** Although, allow this troper to argue; this is incredibly ropey as an explanation. For one, the story does not say that Grace divorced Ehan for trying to save Jason, and it's hardly uncommon for couples to be unable to overcome the loss of their children, leading to a divorce. Furthermore, Ethan's depressed state and lack of connection with Shaun would be indicate that he is not currently in a state to have custody of his son. And finally, Grace describes an event where Ethan suddenly walked into her home, mumbling about DROWNING BODIES after children went missing and were later found drowned by the Origami Killer. None of it is pleasant, but is any of it truly unreasonable?
16th Feb '18 10:44:03 PM Octoya
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** How one views Scott Shelby [[spoiler:as the Origami killer]] depends on what end scenario you get. In one end scenario, [[spoiler:Scott prepares to shoot Ethan even after he had succeeded in the trials, suggesting that he just uses his trauma as an excuse to satisfy his urges.]] But in another scenario, [[spoiler:Shelby lets Ethan shoot him after rescuing his son, suggesting he is either a Death Seeker or that he at least wanted to die gunned down by a father willing to do whatever it took to save his son.]]
16th Feb '18 10:30:41 PM Octoya
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%%** Sort of. The player characters can have varying personalities depending on your choices, but Ethan Mars takes the cake.

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%%** ** Sort of. The player characters can have varying personalities depending on your choices, but Ethan Mars takes the cake. Is he a Woobie who's plagued with guilt over the death of his son and willing to do anything to save Shaun, or is he a pathetic loser who's too wrapped up in his own troubles to be any good for his child, resulting in Shaun's death?
16th Feb '18 10:26:16 PM Octoya
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** Sort of. The player characters can have varying personalities depending on your choices, but Ethan Mars takes the cake.
** When you get into his [[TearJerker backstory]], it only further drives it home.
** It is possible they're all ''really'' [[DeathSeeker looking to die]].
** Jason, in a couple of ways. He acts like a child much younger than ten, but the reasons for that are never mentioned; does he have a developmental disorder? Ordinary immaturity? Or just a plain, poorly-written kid?
*** Jason's odd behavior is largely due to him originally being younger during development, before writers had to make him older to tone down the dark and cruel content surrounding the death of a child.
** For most of the game, Madison seems like a fairly empathetic human being. But if you get [[https://youtu.be/8zh78iopqXA?t=21m41s one bad ending]], she [[spoiler:tries to console Ethan about losing both of his children by urging him to have another son with her. She says this in a matter-of-fact way, while they are standing in front of Shaun's freshly-covered grave.]] Jesus ''Christ'', lady! Do the words "too soon" mean nothing to you? Whether Madison is in fact a [[TheSociopath sociopath]] or just the victim of bad writing is left to the player's judgement.
*** There's also the fact that, should Ethan reject her, one of her endings has her [[spoiler:writing a best-selling book about the events and being hailed as a heroine for her actions, despite committing multiple crimes and breaches of journalistic integrity throughout the story and this act betraying Ethan's trust or even ''why he rejected her in the first place''.]] It make her look much less sympathetic than the heroic IntrepidReporter she seems to have been written as.
* AbandonShipping: [[spoiler:Shelby and Lauren after the reveal that he's the Origami Killer.]]

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** %%** Sort of. The player characters can have varying personalities depending on your choices, but Ethan Mars takes the cake.
** When you get into his [[TearJerker backstory]], it only further drives it home.
** It is possible they're that all the characters are ''really'' [[DeathSeeker looking to die]].
die]] given so many of their poor decisions.
** Jason, in a couple of ways. He acts like a child much younger than ten, but the reasons for that are never mentioned; does he have a developmental disorder? Ordinary immaturity? Or just a plain, poorly-written kid?
*** Jason's odd behavior
kid? This is largely due to him originally being younger during development, before writers had to make him older to tone down the dark and cruel content surrounding the death of a child.
** For most of the game, Madison seems like a fairly empathetic human being. But if you get [[https://youtu.be/8zh78iopqXA?t=21m41s one bad ending]], she [[spoiler:tries her behavior in some of the endings [[spoiler:such as suggesting to console Ethan about losing both of his children by urging that she bear him to have another son with her. She says this in a matter-of-fact way, while they are standing son, right in front of Shaun's freshly-covered grave.]] Jesus ''Christ'', lady! Do freshly filled in grave--and then, if he rejects her, writing a best-selling book about the words "too soon" mean nothing whole incident that makes her look like a hero in a blatant betrayal of Ethan's trust]] make her look a lot less sympathetic than the heroic IntrepidReporter she seems to you? have been written as. Whether Madison is in fact a [[TheSociopath sociopath]] or just the victim of bad writing is left to the player's judgement.
*** There's also the fact that, should Ethan reject her, one of her endings has her [[spoiler:writing a best-selling book about the events and being hailed as a heroine for her actions, despite committing multiple crimes and breaches of journalistic integrity throughout the story and this act betraying Ethan's trust or even ''why he rejected her in the first place''.]] It make her look much less sympathetic than the heroic IntrepidReporter she seems to have been written as.
* AbandonShipping: [[spoiler:Shelby and Lauren after the reveal that he's the Origami Killer.]]
judgement.



* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Madison's dream. The cause for it is never explained, but it does drive the story: Madison, too stressed to sleep in her own place, checks into a motel and meets Ethan.
** The cause for Madison's insomnia is explained in scenes that didn't make the final cut of the game; she was a reporter during the Iraq war and during her time there, she witnessed an unfolding terrorist bombing and attempted to stop it. She failed, and the lingering guilt and horror from what she saw sparked her terrifying nightmares... Which sounds all good on paper but doesn't really add up to masked burglars breaking into her apartment, attempting to rape and kill her.
* CompleteMonster:While the child-murdering Origami Killer is ultimately revealed to be [[spoiler: a tragic figure who still mourns the death of his brother]], such redeeming or sympathetic qualities cannot be found in these two especially depraved killers:

to:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Madison's dream. The cause for it is never explained, but it dream, albeit downplayed. It does drive the story: Madison, story--Madison, too stressed to sleep in her own place, checks into a motel and meets Ethan.
** The cause
Ethan--but the explanation for Madison's insomnia is explained in scenes that didn't make it was cut from the final cut version of the game; she game. The explanation for the nightmare doesn't make a lot of sense either: Madison was traumatized by her time as a reporter during the Iraq war and during her time there, war, wherein she witnessed failed to prevent an unfolding terrorist bombing bombing. And yet her nightmares are about having her home invaded and attempted to stop it. She failed, and the lingering guilt and horror from what she saw sparked her terrifying nightmares... Which sounds all good on paper but doesn't really add up to then being killed by masked burglars breaking into her apartment, attempting to rape and kill her.
burglars.
* CompleteMonster:While CompleteMonster: While the child-murdering Origami Killer is ultimately revealed to be [[spoiler: a tragic figure who still mourns the death of his brother]], such redeeming or sympathetic qualities cannot be found in these two especially depraved killers:



** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0t0uCWjQ6Og "Shaun?! Shaun!! SHAAAUUUN!!!]].

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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0t0uCWjQ6Og "Shaun?! Shaun!! SHAAAUUUN!!!]].There's a bug in one of the ending cutscenes of the game where the prompt to shout "Shaun" never turns off, making it possible for Ethan to scream "SHAUN!!" all throughout the confrontation with the killer. [[MemeticMutation Many found it hilarious.]]



** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0uCWjQ6Og The infamous "Shaun" bug]] becomes especially hilarious now that VideoGame/{{Fallout4}} is out and the protagonist spent a very big part of the game searching for their son who is named, guess it, Shaun.

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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0uCWjQ6Og The infamous "Shaun" bug]] bug becomes especially hilarious now that VideoGame/{{Fallout4}} is out and the protagonist spent a very big part of the game searching for their son who is named, guess it, Shaun.



** The Origami Killer may have an understandable motivation, and has grown up with a troubled past. But at the end, when [[spoiler:Ethan has succeeded in all his trials and found his son, and it appears that Shelby intends on shooting him and leaving Shaun to die anyway]], all bets are off.
*** The above is one possible scenario. In another, [[spoiler:Scott allows Ethan to save his son and offers to let himself be shot. His manipulation of Lauren certainly counts.]]

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** The Origami Killer may have an understandable motivation, and has grown up with a troubled past. But at the end, when [[spoiler:Ethan has succeeded in all his trials and found his son, and in one scenario it appears that Shelby intends on shooting him and leaving Shaun to die anyway]], all bets are off.
anyway.]]
*** The above is one possible scenario. In another, [[spoiler:Scott allows Ethan to save his son and offers to let himself be shot. His For some, [[spoiler:Scott's manipulation of Lauren certainly counts.counts more.]]



** Jason, who is ten years old, does some incredibly dumb things that caused many fans to instantly dislike him. He wanders away from Ethan in a crowded shopping mall and when Ethan catches up, his father tells his son not to wander off again. What does Jason do? Wander off anyway while his father was trying to pay for a balloon he bought for him. When Ethan does find his son outside the mall and across the street, Jason attempts to cross the street to get to his father ''[[TooDumbToLive without even looking both ways before crossing]]''. This gets him hit by a car and he later dies from his injuries. While a four to six year old child could conceivably do what Jason did due to being very young and not knowing any better, Jason –assuming he does not suffer from some kind of developmental disability (which is very clearly not intended) – should be more than old enough to know not to be wandering off on his own or trying to cross a busy street without watching where he was going.
*** Jason's odd behavior is largely due to him originally being younger during development, before writers had to make him older to tone down the horrific content surrounding the death of a child.
** Lauren not only forces Scott to let her join in the investigation by refusing to give him a piece of evidence if he refuses, but also isn't really all that helpful apart from when she has the idea to connect the names in a typewriter repair log to the ones in an origami magazine. The rest of the time she mostly just mopes over her son and seems to get easily distracted.
** Madison is hated by a significant chunk of the fanbase as she lacks the CharacterDevelopment of the other protagonists and her scenes often distract from the main plot. Many of her scenes also come across as tasteless {{Fanservice}} by subjecting her to ugly and unneeded sexual assault scenarios that are largely ignored by the rest of the plot. Not to mention [[spoiler: the optional sex scene between her and Ethan, which comes ''after'' said scenarios]]. The story attempts to paint her as a heroic IntrepidReporter, but several of her actions, particularly during some of the worse endings, suggests she is closer to TheSociopath (See AlternateCharacterInterpretation).

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** Jason, who is ten years old, does some Jason was instantly disliked by many fans because of his incredibly dumb things that caused many fans behavior in the prologue, which ultimately led to instantly dislike him. He wanders away from Ethan in a crowded shopping mall and when Ethan catches up, his father tells his son not to wander off again. What does Jason do? Wander off anyway while his father him getting killed. A result of poor writing--originally he was trying to pay for be a balloon he bought for him. When Ethan does find his son outside the mall and across the street, Jason attempts to cross the street to get to his father ''[[TooDumbToLive without even looking both ways before crossing]]''. This gets him hit by a car and he later dies from his injuries. While a younger character, possibly four to six year old child could conceivably do what Jason did due to being very young and not knowing any better, Jason –assuming he does not suffer from some kind of developmental disability (which is very clearly not intended) – should six, who would be more than old enough prone to know not to be wandering off and wouldn't be so careful on his own or trying to cross a busy street without watching where he was going.
*** Jason's odd behavior is largely due to
street. To make the story a little less dark, the writers aged him originally being younger up during development, before writers had to make him older to tone down the horrific content surrounding the death of a child.
** Lauren not only forces Scott to let her join in the investigation by refusing to give him a piece of evidence if he refuses,
but also isn't really all that helpful apart from when she has the idea to connect the names in a typewriter repair log to the ones in an origami magazine. The rest of the time she mostly just mopes over her son and seems to get easily distracted.
they didn't bother revising his behavior.
** Madison is hated by a significant chunk of the fanbase as she lacks the CharacterDevelopment of the other protagonists and her scenes often distract from the main plot. Many of her scenes also come across as tasteless {{Fanservice}} by subjecting her to ugly and unneeded sexual assault scenarios that are largely ignored by the rest of the plot. Not to mention [[spoiler: the optional sex scene between her and Ethan, which comes ''after'' said scenarios]]. The story attempts to paint her as a heroic IntrepidReporter, but several of her actions, particularly during some of the worse endings, suggests she is closer to TheSociopath (See AlternateCharacterInterpretation).TheSociopath.
28th Jan '18 2:13:14 PM ACW
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* CompleteMonster:
** [[spoiler:[[MadDoctor Dr. Adrian Baker]]]] murders people by surgery while they are still alive and conscious [[ForTheEvulz for no other motivation than his own enjoyment]]. He attempts to do this on Madison Page, and a Jehovah's witness [[DisproportionateRetribution because the man wouldn't stop pestering him.]] He isn't exactly averse to a spot of ColdBloodedTorture before he kills his victims: with Madison, he acts friendly enough, but when she's in his clutches he begins attempting to torture her with a power drill.
** Leland White, [[TaxidermyIsCreepy The Taxidermist]] in the DLC of the same name kills young women before stuffing them and displaying them around his house. If Madison attracts his attention during her escape he shows pure sadistic glee in hunting her down while taunting her about how he’s going to add her to his collection. When Madison first uncovers the inside of his home, she's rightly horrified to discover just how many women he's murdered and made part of sick little tableaus.

to:

* CompleteMonster:
CompleteMonster:While the child-murdering Origami Killer is ultimately revealed to be [[spoiler: a tragic figure who still mourns the death of his brother]], such redeeming or sympathetic qualities cannot be found in these two especially depraved killers:
** [[spoiler:[[MadDoctor [[FauxAffablyEvil Dr. Adrian Baker]]]] murders people by surgery while they are still alive Baker]], aka [[MadDoctor Doctor Death]], at first seems to be a harmless old man despite being a drug dealer and associate of crime boss Paco Mendez, but is in fact a sadistic torturer. A former surgeon who enjoys operations, Baker grows bored with retirement and becomes a SerialKiller who habitually kidnaps, tortured and dissects his victims to death with power tools, both for amusement and minor slights; from a man he suspected to be a government spy to an attempt on a Bible solicitor. Baker gets a kick on keeping his victims conscious [[ForTheEvulz for no other motivation than his own enjoyment]]. He as he kills them and implies that he's [[ILoveTheDead a necrophile]] as well when he takes an attraction to [[PlayerCharacter Madison Page]] and attempts to do this on Madison Page, and a Jehovah's witness [[DisproportionateRetribution because the man wouldn't stop pestering him.]] He isn't exactly averse to a spot of ColdBloodedTorture before molest her if he kills his victims: with Madison, he acts friendly enough, but when thinks she's in his clutches he begins attempting to torture her with dead. Depending on the player's actions, Baker may end up killing Madison by sticking a power drill.
drill into her genitals.
** Leland White, [[TaxidermyIsCreepy The Taxidermist]] in Leland White]] is the DLC depraved titular SerialKiller of "The Taxidermist" prequel {{DLC}}, whom Madison investigates under suspicion of him being the same name kills young women before stuffing them Origami Killer, only to discover that he's somehow much more wicked. Seeming to be a quiet and displaying them lonely man, when Madison breaks into his house, it's discovered he murdered about a dozen women, whom he stuffs to preserve their bodies all around his house. house to keep as "[[LivingDollCollector dolls]]". The player can witness Leland talking to these corpses about new "friends" he has in mind to bring home. If Madison attracts his attention during her escape he shows pure alerted to Madison's presence, Leland will take a sadistic glee and childish joy in hunting her down while taunting her down, and gloating about how he’s going to add adding her to as part of his collection. When Madison first uncovers Depending on the inside of his home, she's rightly horrified player's actions, he can either succeed in killing her (in the non canon endings) or potentially kills himself to discover just how many women he's murdered and made part of sick little tableaus.avoid arrest should she escape.
16th Jan '18 10:05:17 AM babyhenchy1
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** The entire market chase. From the amount of ways to fail to some of Miroslav Corda's methods to get away, such as knocking down store things like a child to ''releasing chickens to bother Norman''. Norman adds to the Narm by being annoyed by the chickens.

to:

** The entire market chase. From the amount of ways to fail to [[DickDastardlyStopsToCheat some of Miroslav Corda's methods to get away, away]], such as knocking down store things like a child to ''releasing chickens to bother Norman''. Norman adds to the Narm by being annoyed by the chickens.
11th Jan '18 11:27:50 AM Hermarai000
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* It Was His Sled: [[spoiler:Scott Is the Origami Killer]].

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* It Was His Sled: ItWasHisSled: [[spoiler:Scott Is the Origami Killer]].
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