History YMMV / GoblinHollow

22nd Dec '15 3:59:35 PM Austin
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** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.
*** It's all but implied that she used to be a more cheerful person before her friend died. And completely changing your apparel to something that not a lot of adults even tolerate, Cutting and dyeing your hair, and getting a bad attitude all at once? She was really messed up before she came to live with her sister. It's just that we didn't really see her in a flashback pertaining how she used to be in more detail to take stock of how much she changed from before.

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** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.
*** It's all but
attitude. It is implied that she used to be a more cheerful person before her friend died. And completely changing your apparel to something that not a lot of adults even tolerate, Cutting and dyeing your hair, and getting a bad attitude all at once? She was really messed up before she came to live with her sister.died. It's just that we didn't really see her in a flashback pertaining how she used to be in more detail to take stock of how much she changed from before.
11th Dec '15 10:18:14 AM Dechstreme
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* CharacterAlignment: [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00058.html As explained by Ben]]

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* CharacterAlignment: [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00058.html com/goblin-hollow-0058/ As explained by Ben]]
11th Dec '15 10:14:38 AM Dechstreme
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Added DiffLines:

*** It's all but implied that she used to be a more cheerful person before her friend died. And completely changing your apparel to something that not a lot of adults even tolerate, Cutting and dyeing your hair, and getting a bad attitude all at once? She was really messed up before she came to live with her sister. It's just that we didn't really see her in a flashback pertaining how she used to be in more detail to take stock of how much she changed from before.
30th Sep '15 10:45:42 PM Wanderwolf
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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments: Penny [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00348.html confronting]] [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00345.html a modern-day]] [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00347.html money-changer in the temple]], even if she doesn't quite manage to drive him out. See ValuesDissonance, though.

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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments: Penny [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00348.html com/goblin-hollow-0349/ confronting]] a modern-day [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00345.html a modern-day]] [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00347.html com/goblin-hollow-0346/ money-changer in the temple]], even if she doesn't quite manage to drive him out. See ValuesDissonance, though.
30th Sep '15 10:43:06 PM Wanderwolf
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** Of course, letting fly a major burst of profanity in the church vestibule ''is'' going a bit far -- but enough of the readers had had enough of televangelists and their ilk that having Ben and Lily -- two upright Christians -- demand she apologize for speaking truth to the man in public after being publicly insulted by him looked a lot like CrossingTheLineTwice. It was so bad that some readers actually said Penny should run away from home rather than be hit by Ben the next time she said or did something that upset him. (Which wasn't fair to the character ''or'' the author.)
30th Sep '15 10:38:38 PM Wanderwolf
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* ValuesDissonance: When the response to Penny's Crowning Moment of Awesome above was [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00349.html this]], the fans revolted. Some went so far as to consider it a KickTheDog moment for Lily. Hayes seemed genuinely surprised and even angered by this attitude. Apparently, the taboo against "making a scene" at a church event (the confrontation took place after actual services ended) or talking back to a preacher is so strong in his family and denomination that it never occurred to him that his readers might feel otherwise.

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* ValuesDissonance: When the response to Penny's Crowning Moment of Awesome above was [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00349.html com/goblin-hollow-0350/ this]], the fans revolted. Some went so far as to consider it a KickTheDog moment for Lily. Hayes seemed genuinely surprised and even angered by this attitude. Apparently, the taboo against "making a scene" at a church event (the confrontation took place after actual services ended) or talking back to a preacher is so strong in his family and denomination that it never occurred to him that his readers might feel otherwise.
13th Jun '14 2:16:18 PM MarkLungo
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**** Which may be unacceptable, but it is normal. Readers from outside RHJunior's subculture fall into this trope when asked to see it as a sign of being severely troubled.

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**** Which may be unacceptable, but it is normal. Readers from outside RHJunior's Creator/RalphHayesJr's subculture fall into this trope when asked to see it as a sign of being severely troubled.



** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.

to:

** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.attitude.
----
20th Jan '14 5:01:14 PM Someoneman
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** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.
*** The fact that her public behavior was indistinguishable from girls who WERE sneaking off to dope, smoke, drink, and fornicate, what conclusion should her parents have reached? Only teenagers themselves expect others to see the invisible halo of innocence over their heads.
**** Her public behavior was indistinguishable from the overwhelming majority of teenagers. Her parents are free to find it unacceptable, but to consider it self-evidently a sign of serious trouble inflicts this trope on most readers.
** Perhaps this Christian troper can clarify some things. In a lot of Christian homes and churches, a "surly attitude" is treated as a symptom of a troubled teen. The whole teenage rebellion is not considered a normal part of growing up, and any amount of it is considered a sign that the kid has, at the very least, issues with authority. So, really, the ValuesDissonance in this situation lies between the Christian attitude that teenage rebellion, in and of itself, is bad, and the average belief that it's perfectly normal and all teenagers will rebel at some point.
*** You should be more specific about your denomination. That belief is not shared by all Christians. But yes, that does make this a textbook case of ValuesDissonance.
*** There's also the issues of rude behavior, dressing in a deliberately provocative/shocking fashion, rounds of public tonsil hockey with skanky-looking young men... sensible parents, regardless of denomination, don't wait till AFTER the drug abuse or first pregnancy to start worrying.
**** And again, those things are not enough, in themselves, to convince a mainstream audience that a teen character is genuinely troubled. They're too common, and generally outgrown without incident. Thus this trope. Whether a parent considers such behavior unacceptable or not is up to them.

to:

** And now it turns out that Penny is not only [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00381.html a virgin]], but she considers any suggestion that she might not be to be both insulting and ridiculous. Unless she's a substance abuser of some kind and we just haven't seen it yet, then we're supposed to buy her as a "troubled teen" - enough so that she needed to be sent to live with her sister in order to get her away from her friends - based on black clothes and a surly attitude.
*** The fact that her public behavior was indistinguishable from girls who WERE sneaking off to dope, smoke, drink, and fornicate, what conclusion should her parents have reached? Only teenagers themselves expect others to see the invisible halo of innocence over their heads.
**** Her public behavior was indistinguishable from the overwhelming majority of teenagers. Her parents are free to find it unacceptable, but to consider it self-evidently a sign of serious trouble inflicts this trope on most readers.
** Perhaps this Christian troper can clarify some things. In a lot of Christian homes and churches, a "surly attitude" is treated as a symptom of a troubled teen. The whole teenage rebellion is not considered a normal part of growing up, and any amount of it is considered a sign that the kid has, at the very least, issues with authority. So, really, the ValuesDissonance in this situation lies between the Christian attitude that teenage rebellion, in and of itself, is bad, and the average belief that it's perfectly normal and all teenagers will rebel at some point.
*** You should be more specific about your denomination. That belief is not shared by all Christians. But yes, that does make this a textbook case of ValuesDissonance.
*** There's also the issues of rude behavior, dressing in a deliberately provocative/shocking fashion, rounds of public tonsil hockey with skanky-looking young men... sensible parents, regardless of denomination, don't wait till AFTER the drug abuse or first pregnancy to start worrying.
**** And again, those things are not enough, in themselves, to convince a mainstream audience that a teen character is genuinely troubled. They're too common, and generally outgrown without incident. Thus this trope. Whether a parent considers such behavior unacceptable or not is up to them.
attitude.
13th Jan '14 7:32:46 PM Someoneman
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Added DiffLines:

* SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments: Penny [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00348.html confronting]] [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00345.html a modern-day]] [[http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00347.html money-changer in the temple]], even if she doesn't quite manage to drive him out. See ValuesDissonance, though.
18th Mar '13 7:50:13 PM Steinman76
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*** There's also the issues of rude behavior, dressing in a deliberately provocative/shocking fashion, rounds of public tonsil hockey with skanky-looking young men... sensible parents, regardless of denomination, don't wait till AFTER the drug abuse or first pregnancy to start worrying.

to:

*** There's also the issues of rude behavior, dressing in a deliberately provocative/shocking fashion, rounds of public tonsil hockey with skanky-looking young men... sensible parents, regardless of denomination, don't wait till AFTER the drug abuse or first pregnancy to start worrying.worrying.
**** And again, those things are not enough, in themselves, to convince a mainstream audience that a teen character is genuinely troubled. They're too common, and generally outgrown without incident. Thus this trope. Whether a parent considers such behavior unacceptable or not is up to them.
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