Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Darkness Induced Audience Apathy was renamed. Commented out Zero Context Examples. Example Indentation.
Deleted line(s) 3 (click to see context) :
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: After the Foundation became more oppressive, ruthless and prone to brainwashing there are hardly any factions worth rooting for.
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* HilariousInHindsight: ".... people had no real conception of the fact that the Empire was running down. They had been more or less running their own affairs since the [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Zeonian revolt]]..."
to:
* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
** ".... people had no real conception of the fact that the Empire was running down. They had been more or less running their own affairs since the [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Zeonian revolt]]..."
** ".... people had no real conception of the fact that the Empire was running down. They had been more or less running their own affairs since the [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Zeonian revolt]]..."
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* {{Narm}}: Hardin shouting "''The Galactic Empire is dying''!" No wonder one Encyclopedist called it a "hysterical" statement.
** The original version is even more narmy, with Hardon declaring "If you ask me... ''The Galactic Empire is going to pot!''" Asimov wisely changed this bit of dialogue to something more dignified.
** The original version is even more narmy, with Hardon declaring "If you ask me... ''The Galactic Empire is going to pot!''" Asimov wisely changed this bit of dialogue to something more dignified.
to:
* {{Narm}}: {{Narm}}:
** Hardin shouting "''The Galactic Empire is dying''!" No wonder one Encyclopedist called it a "hysterical"statement.
**statement. The original version is even more narmy, with Hardon declaring "If you ask me... ''The Galactic Empire is going to pot!''" Asimov wisely changed this bit of dialogue to something more dignified.
** Hardin shouting "''The Galactic Empire is dying''!" No wonder one Encyclopedist called it a "hysterical"
**
Changed line(s) 17,19 (click to see context) from:
** The Mule is TheWoobie and has a sympathetic backstory. At this point in its history, the Foundation is a fascist HereditaryRepublic that is crushing the freedom of its independent traders and citizens alike. The Mule's empire, in comparison, is well-run and free (as long as you don't try to topple his government.)
*** Of course, the Mule killed millions of people and sterilized multiple planets. Not to mention that he waylaid the Foundation's predicted reformation from the civil war that never emerged thanks to the external threat he presented.
*** ... and because of that, we don't get to see what kinds of death and destruction a civil war between two equally matched opponents (by design) would wreak across the Foundation, as deliberately set in motion by Hari Seldon himself.
*** Of course, the Mule killed millions of people and sterilized multiple planets. Not to mention that he waylaid the Foundation's predicted reformation from the civil war that never emerged thanks to the external threat he presented.
*** ... and because of that, we don't get to see what kinds of death and destruction a civil war between two equally matched opponents (by design) would wreak across the Foundation, as deliberately set in motion by Hari Seldon himself.
to:
** The Mule is TheWoobie and has a sympathetic backstory. At this point in its history, the Foundation is a fascist HereditaryRepublic that is crushing the freedom of its independent traders and citizens alike. The Mule's empire, in comparison, is well-run and free (as long as you don't try to topple his government.)
***) Of course, the Mule killed millions of people and sterilized multiple planets. Not to mention that he waylaid the Foundation's predicted reformation from the civil war that never emerged thanks to the external threat he presented.
*** ... andpresented. And because of that, we don't get to see what kinds of death and destruction a civil war between two equally matched opponents (by design) would wreak across the Foundation, as deliberately set in motion by Hari Seldon himself.
***
*** ... and
* TooBleakStoppedCaring: After the Foundation became more oppressive, ruthless and prone to brainwashing there are hardly any factions worth rooting for.
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
** Trevize's gut revulsion to Solarians, psychics, and the very idea of aliens just comes off as xenophobic bigotry today.
*** While their use of the pronoun "it" for the hermaphroditic Solarians is acknowledged as dehumanising in the novel, the character's total blindness to using the singular "they" is rather annoying.
*** While their use of the pronoun "it" for the hermaphroditic Solarians is acknowledged as dehumanising in the novel, the character's total blindness to using the singular "they" is rather annoying.
to:
** Trevize's gut revulsion to Solarians, psychics, and the very idea of aliens just comes off as xenophobic bigotry today.
***today. While their use of the pronoun "it" for the hermaphroditic Solarians is acknowledged as dehumanising in the novel, the character's total blindness to using the singular "they" is rather annoying.
***
Changed line(s) 26,28 (click to see context) from:
* TheWoobie: Magnifico.
** [[spoiler:WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds]]: What he actually is.
** [[spoiler:WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds]]: What he actually is.
to:
** [[spoiler:WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds]]: What he actually is.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 25,26 (click to see context) from:
** Even with them being the bad guys, the [[https://archive.org/stream/Astounding_v29n04_1942-06_dtsg0318#page/n17/mode/2up original illustration]] of Anacreoneans saluting their king can look... jarring today.
*** Given that the story was written during World War 2, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance it was probably meant to be.]]
*** Given that the story was written during World War 2, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance it was probably meant to be.]]
to:
** Even with them being the bad guys, the [[https://archive.org/stream/Astounding_v29n04_1942-06_dtsg0318#page/n17/mode/2up original illustration]] of Anacreoneans saluting their king can look... jarring today.
***today. Given that the story was written during World War 2, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance it was probably meant to be.]]
***
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The Mule - while most accept that he gave himself that name because [[spoiler: he is sterile]], some read his line "I call myself the Mule - but not because of my strength, obviously" as an indication that [[spoiler: he has a GagPenis, making this line GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The Mule - while most accept that he gave himself that name because [[spoiler: he is sterile]], some read his line "I call myself the Mule - but not because of my strength, obviously" as an indication that [[spoiler: he has a GagPenis, making this line GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].GagPenis]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
** The Foundation itself, in the novels ''Foundation's Edge'' and ''Foundation and Earth'', represent the last desperate attempts by normal humans to maintain their free will and liberty. Not everyone wants to be in a [[spoiler:Hive Mind, or in the alternative, ruled by a cabal of elites with psychic powers. Although the fact that Mayor Branno wants to play GalacticConqueror and rule the galaxy from Terminus simply means the loss of liberty to a non-psychic imperial regime.]]
to:
** The Foundation itself, in the novels ''Foundation's Edge'' ''Literature/FoundationsEdge'' and ''Foundation and Earth'', ''Literature/FoundationAndEarth'', represent the last desperate attempts by normal humans to maintain their free will and liberty. Not everyone wants to be in a [[spoiler:Hive Mind, or in the alternative, ruled by a cabal of elites with psychic powers. Although the fact that Mayor Branno wants to play GalacticConqueror and rule the galaxy from Terminus simply means the loss of liberty to a non-psychic imperial regime.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Unapproved by thread.
Deleted line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) :
* MagnificentBastard: Salvor Hardin and Hober Mallow; Seldon had his moments, as well.
** [[spoiler:R. Daneel Olivaw manipulated Hari Seldon into creating the Foundation plan to act as a backup plan for Daneel's plan, using his creation of Gaia in a benevolent AssimilationPlot to create Galaxia, a galaxy-wide hive mind.]]
** [[spoiler:R. Daneel Olivaw manipulated Hari Seldon into creating the Foundation plan to act as a backup plan for Daneel's plan, using his creation of Gaia in a benevolent AssimilationPlot to create Galaxia, a galaxy-wide hive mind.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Given that the story was written during World War 2, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance it was probably meant to be.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** While their use of the pronoun "it" for the hermaphroditic Solarians is acknowledged as dehumanising in the novel, the character's total blindness to using the singular "they" is rather annoying.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added DiffLines:
* FanonDiscontinuity: Many fans of ''Literature/TheFoundationTrilogy'' restrict the canon of the series to just that trilogy, excluding the {{Sequel}}s and {{Prequel}}s, including those of ''Literature/TheSecondFoundationTrilogy''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
** The Mule - while most accept that he gave himself that name because [[spoiler: he is sterile]], some read his line "I call myself the Mule - but not because of my strength, obviously" as an indication that [[spoiler: he has a GagPenis, making this line GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].
** The Mule - while most accept that he gave himself that name because [[spoiler: he is sterile]], some read his line "I call myself the Mule - but not because of my strength, obviously" as an indication that [[spoiler: he has a GagPenis, making this line GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The Mule - while most accept that he gave himself that name because [[spoiler: he is sterile]], some read his line "I call myself the Mule - but not because of my strength, obviously" as an indication that [[spoiler: he has a GagPenis, making this line GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].GettingCrapPastTheRadar]].
* ContinuityLockOut: Creator/IsaacAsimov put his series on a decades-long hiatus in the 1950s partly because ''he'' was exhausted from having to reread the material to keep it consistent and to write an engaging synopsis of previous events to prevent new readers from feeling locked out of the current story. A fan later handed him a long list of inconsistencies within the ''Foundation'' stories.
**
* ContinuityLockOut: Creator/IsaacAsimov put his series on a decades-long hiatus in the 1950s partly because ''he'' was exhausted from having to reread the material to keep it consistent and to write an engaging synopsis of previous events to prevent new readers from feeling locked out of the current story. A fan later handed him a long list of inconsistencies within the ''Foundation'' stories.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV tropes, working on moving to Literature.Foundation, or to a more appropriate subwork page.
Deleted line(s) 3 (click to see context) :
* ButtMonkey: Despite his many apparent offscreen moments of awesome, Pritcher seems to fall into this whenever he has the focus. When we first meet him, he's a competent officer but has been repeatedly passed over for promotion due to his tendency for disobeying orders in pursuit of what he sees as the greater good. After [[spoiler: the Foundation falls to the Mule]], he winds up as a migrant and then eventually a factory worker to mask his participation in a rebellion conspiracy. Things go rapidly downhill from there: [[spoiler: he's picked for a suicide-bombing run, which fails and results in him being captured and mind-raped by the Mule, then later mind-raped by a Second Foundationer as a tool against the Mule, then mind-raped by the Mule again.]] The last we hear about him is his failed attempt to maintain cohesion in the Mule's rapidly disintegrating empire.
Deleted line(s) 7,9 (click to see context) :
* {{Foreshadowing}}: The creation of Gaia/Galaxia is foreshadowed a couple of times.
** [[spoiler: On his death bed, Elijah advises Daneel to look at the big picture, which parallels Giskard's notion of the Zeroth Law.]]
** In a conversation with Emperor Cleon regarding the emerging attempt to establish a legislative government for Trantor, Seldon expresses sympathy for the idea of democracy, but concedes that it is [[DemocracyIsFlawed impractical]] for such a huge population as Trantor has (much less the entire Empire). [[spoiler:Daneel]] (who among other things would serve as Cleon's first minister under the alias Eto Demerzel, and would act as a benefactor to Seldon) undertakes the [[spoiler:creation of Gaia with the idea that if he could turn "humanity" into a concrete concept, and eliminate issues like social status, then it would be possible to make decisions about what benefits humanity as a whole without being limited by weighing individuals and groups relative values against each other.]]
** [[spoiler: On his death bed, Elijah advises Daneel to look at the big picture, which parallels Giskard's notion of the Zeroth Law.]]
** In a conversation with Emperor Cleon regarding the emerging attempt to establish a legislative government for Trantor, Seldon expresses sympathy for the idea of democracy, but concedes that it is [[DemocracyIsFlawed impractical]] for such a huge population as Trantor has (much less the entire Empire). [[spoiler:Daneel]] (who among other things would serve as Cleon's first minister under the alias Eto Demerzel, and would act as a benefactor to Seldon) undertakes the [[spoiler:creation of Gaia with the idea that if he could turn "humanity" into a concrete concept, and eliminate issues like social status, then it would be possible to make decisions about what benefits humanity as a whole without being limited by weighing individuals and groups relative values against each other.]]
Deleted line(s) 26 (click to see context) :
* SpaceIsAnOcean: General Bel Riose uses giant spaceships to encircle ([[DysonSphere more like "ensphere"]]) a solar system just like RealLife Admirals [[SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale use their fleet to blockade an island]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 26,27 (click to see context) :
* ShaggyDogStory: [[spoiler:At the end of ''Foundation and Earth'', it is revealed that the Foundation was nothing more than Daneel's backup plan, enacted during a time when he was having trouble setting up Gaia. Since Gaia is now operational and about to take over the galaxy, the Foundation and its history was ultimately irrelevant.]]
** ... [[DownplayedTrope Or not]]. [[spoiler: The 'about to' is still indicated to be something that will take a long time yet, enough time for the Foundation(s) to keep things running in the meantime, and it is implied that the transition from Gaia to Galaxia will take advantage of the infrastructure -- mental and otherwise -- established by the First and Second Foundations]]. It may have been a great deal less important a story than what seemed to be the case previously, but it wasn't ''irrelevant''.
** ... [[DownplayedTrope Or not]]. [[spoiler: The 'about to' is still indicated to be something that will take a long time yet, enough time for the Foundation(s) to keep things running in the meantime, and it is implied that the transition from Gaia to Galaxia will take advantage of the infrastructure -- mental and otherwise -- established by the First and Second Foundations]]. It may have been a great deal less important a story than what seemed to be the case previously, but it wasn't ''irrelevant''.
