Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / FinalFantasyXVI

Go To

OR

Added: 629

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CaptainObviousReveal: Clive [[spoiler:being the second Eikon of Fire and ultimately responsible for Joshua's so-called death]] is treated as a big reveal, considering that the first chunk of the game revolves around avenging Joshua's [[spoiler:supposed]] death by hunting down someone that had similar abilities to the Eikon of Fire. This is also reflected in gameplay where Clive can only use Phoenix's powers initially. The camerawork during Joshua's death scene is supposed to imply that Clive is watching the scene as an observer... except the cutscenes early on in the game flat out ''show'' Clive transforming into Ifrit.



*** [[CoolUncle Uncle Byron]] is this due to him being a [[RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething nobleman who goes out of his way to help the heroes]], to the point of [[UnclePennybags funding them]] to the point where he's bleeding money. There's also the fact that he's a [[BoisterousBruiser boisterous]] and [[NiceGuy friendly guy]] in general, can also [[BadassNormal hold his own]] in battle even against Akashic, and acts as a positive ParentalSubstitute to Clive [[spoiler:and Joshua]] after Elwin [[spoiler:and Cid]] are killed.

to:

*** ** [[CoolUncle Uncle Byron]] is this due to him being a [[RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething nobleman who goes out of his way to help the heroes]], to the point of [[UnclePennybags funding them]] to the point where he's bleeding money. There's also the fact that he's a [[BoisterousBruiser boisterous]] and [[NiceGuy friendly guy]] in general, can also [[BadassNormal hold his own]] in battle even against Akashic, and acts as a positive ParentalSubstitute to Clive [[spoiler:and Joshua]] after Elwin [[spoiler:and Cid]] are killed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** A sidequest earlier in the game has you witness a nobleman and his son [[spoiler: lure Bearers to their death by the hands of their pet wolf and take pleasure in it. They try to do the same to you, but because you're TheProtagonist, it obviously doesn't go so well. They get mad, storm off, and go to find a bigger wolf to replace the one you just killed. One cutscene later, and you hear their well-deserved cries in the distance as they are mauled to death by the new 'pet' they just acquired.]]

to:

** A sidequest earlier in the game has you witness a nobleman and his son [[spoiler: lure Bearers to their death by the hands of their pet wolf and take pleasure in it. They try to do the same to you, but because you're TheProtagonist, it obviously doesn't go so well. They get mad, storm off, and go to find a bigger wolf to replace the one you just killed. One cutscene later, and you hear their well-deserved cries in the distance as they are mauled to death by the new 'pet' they just acquired. Though, as stated below, while it's generally agreed that the nobleman deserved his fate, many feel that his son sharing that fate is KarmicOverkill.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AbandonShipping: Cid/Benedikta shippers who are put off by ships with large age gaps ended up abandoning the ship after WordOfGod confirmed that Cid and Benedikta were 44 and 28 after the first time-skip, respectively, as it meant that there was a 16-year age gap between the two.

to:

* AbandonShipping: Cid/Benedikta shippers who are put off by ships with large age gaps ended up abandoning the ship after WordOfGod the ''Final Fantasy XVI Ultimania'' confirmed that Cid and Benedikta were 44 and 28 after the first time-skip, respectively, as it meant that there was a 16-year age gap between the two.



** When the game was first released, it was generally assumed that the love between Benedikta and Cid was romantic. However, after WordOfGod confirmed that Cid was 44 years old after the first timeskip whereas Benedikta was only 28 years old, many have started to interpret their love as familial, specifically a surrogate father-daughter relationship, rather than romantic, due to their 16-year age gap, especially since Benedikta was only 15 when she first met Cid, who would have been 31, more than twice Benedikta's age at the time and well into adulthood while Benedikta was still a minor. Others choose to interpret that Benedikta's feelings were romantic while Cid's were familial.

to:

** When the game was first released, it was generally assumed that the love between Benedikta and Cid was romantic. However, after WordOfGod the ''Final Fantasy XVI Ultimania'' confirmed that Cid was 44 years old after the first timeskip whereas Benedikta was only 28 years old, many have started to interpret their love as familial, specifically a surrogate father-daughter relationship, rather than romantic, due to their 16-year age gap, especially since Benedikta was only 15 when she first met Cid, who would have been 31, more than twice Benedikta's age at the time and well into adulthood while Benedikta was still a minor. Others choose to interpret that Benedikta's feelings were romantic while Cid's were familial.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AbandonShipping: Cid/Benedikta shippers who are put off by ships with large age gaps ended up abandoning the ship after WordOfGod confirmed that Cid and Benedikta were 44 and 28 after the first time-skip, respectively, as it meant that there was a 16-year age gap between the two.


Added DiffLines:

** When the game was first released, it was generally assumed that the love between Benedikta and Cid was romantic. However, after WordOfGod confirmed that Cid was 44 years old after the first timeskip whereas Benedikta was only 28 years old, many have started to interpret their love as familial, specifically a surrogate father-daughter relationship, rather than romantic, due to their 16-year age gap, especially since Benedikta was only 15 when she first met Cid, who would have been 31, more than twice Benedikta's age at the time and well into adulthood while Benedikta was still a minor. Others choose to interpret that Benedikta's feelings were romantic while Cid's were familial.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MisaimedFandom: Many fans have wished that Anabella suffered a more horrific death, even though another side of the fandom feel that her death in the game was pretty poetic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Evil Is Sexy has been dewicked.


* EvilIsSexy: Benedikta, with her dominatrix overtones, got unsurprisingly popular for how little time she had.

Changed: 141

Removed: 639

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Dion is one of the most important characters in the game. Even if his focus is more towards the second half, he's too prominent to be an Ensemble Darkshorse. Same with Barnabas, for anyone considering him.


* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Some of the supporting protagonists met throughout the game have become just as popular as the main characters, if not more than some of them:

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse:
**
EnsembleDarkhorse: Some of the supporting protagonists characters met throughout the game have become just as popular as the main characters, if not more than some of them:



*** [[TheParagon Dion Lesage]], despite having little importance in the first half of the game, ended up being this after the second half. The fact that he's the Dominant of Bahamut and is yet a SheepInSheepsClothing who genuinely cares for his people, as opposed to being a power-obsessed egomaniac like Hugo Kupka or Benedikta Harmann, makes him stand out as an IdealHero in a CrapsackWorld, and he's also popular for [[spoiler:for his onscreen homosexual romance with his squire, Terrence.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** A very late-game sidequest reveals that there is a secret society dedicated to burying the historical reasons for the enslavement and dehumanization of Bearers so as to preserve the status quo. They only appear in this one sidequest (in part because it's an optional sidequest just before the final dungeon), where Clive only encounters a few of their rank-and-file members out to destroy a rare book portraying an alternate interpretation of history. Such a group could have been a respectable side villain in their own right had they been introduced earlier in the game.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing tropes that are hidden


%%* LGBTFanbase: The game acquired one quickly in the wake of its launch thanks to its numerous attractive male characters - including the broody protagonist Clive (who has multiple nude scenes throughout the game), the gravelly-voiced Cid, and the burly Hugo. In addition, the game features openly-queer characters in important roles (such as Dion), being one of the first installments in the franchise to do so. And then there's Benedikta, whose FemmeFatale aesthetic won her fans from across the LGBT community.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ItWasHisSled: [[spoiler:Joshua is alive]] quickly became fairly widespread knowledge shortly after the game's release. While the game's trailers and other marketing did a good job ''not'' spoiling the twist, this information is critical to a lot of the game's plot and its most emotional and epic moments, and screenshots and fanart of [[spoiler:Joshua]] flooded social media in the months after the game's release, both factors that make it difficult to have any exposure to the game without learning about this. At the least the reveal is provided fairly early in the story and there's still intrigued to be had by learning the context behind it, so knowing it doesn't really ruin one's experience.

to:

* ItWasHisSled: The game treats a mid-game reveal as a huge plot twist: [[spoiler:Joshua is alive]] still alive, having survived the attack at the Phoenix Gate, meaning Clive didn't kill Joshua after all once he transformed into Ifrit]]. However, this twist quickly became fairly widespread knowledge shortly after the game's release. While the game's trailers and other marketing did a good job ''not'' spoiling the twist, this information is critical to a lot of the game's plot and its most emotional and epic moments, and screenshots and fanart of [[spoiler:Joshua]] based around what happened flooded social media in the months after the game's release, release. As such, both factors that make it difficult to have any exposure to the game without learning about this. At the twist beforehand. At least the reveal is provided fairly early in the story story, and there's still intrigued to be had by learning the context behind it, so it. So knowing it the twist doesn't really ruin one's experience. experience because of the way the plot expands on it from there, but learning about it too soon can still be a bummer.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ImprovedSecondAttempt: ''Final Fantasy XVI'' has more than a few parallels to ''VideoGame/StrangerOfParadiseFinalFantasyOrigin'', released the year before. Both are Action [=RPGs=] that got a lot of publicity for being rated M and being DarkerAndEdgier and BloodierAndGorier than past titles, both star an older male protagonist that is presented as being driven by anger and hatred, and both attempt to deconstruct stable series story elements, particularly the Crystals. The narratives also both see the protagonists [[spoiler:learn that the state of the world has been set up by a race of god-like beings, and they destroy that race to free humanity from their control even if it costs them their lives and risks the end of the world]]. However, ''XVI'' succeeded much better at these efforts than ''Stranger of Paradise'' did: ''XVI'' actually tells a mature plot with graphic subject matter, while ''[=SoP=]'' came off as trying too hard with silly dialogue and gothic world design; Clive is a much more likeable and well-rounded protagonist than Jack with a sympathetic reason for his cynicism; ''XVI's'' deconstructions occur in its own setting and make sense within it instead of taking place within the setting of the original game and retconning its lore; and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the end of the story is part of the base game and not DLC content]].

to:

* ImprovedSecondAttempt: ''Final Fantasy XVI'' has more than a few parallels to ''VideoGame/StrangerOfParadiseFinalFantasyOrigin'', released the year before. Both are Action [=RPGs=] that got a lot of publicity for being rated M and being DarkerAndEdgier and BloodierAndGorier than past ''Final Fantasy'' titles, both star an older male protagonist that is presented as being driven by anger and hatred, and both attempt to deconstruct stable staple series story elements, particularly the Crystals. The narratives also both see the protagonists [[spoiler:learn that the state of the world has been set up by a race of god-like beings, and they destroy that race to free humanity from their control even if it costs them their lives and risks the end of the world]]. However, ''XVI'' succeeded much better at these efforts than ''Stranger of Paradise'' did: ''XVI'' actually tells a mature plot with graphic subject matter, while ''[=SoP=]'' came off as trying too hard with silly dialogue and gothic world design; Clive is a much more likeable and well-rounded protagonist than Jack with a sympathetic reason for his cynicism; ''XVI's'' deconstructions occur in its own setting and make sense within it instead of taking place within the setting of the original game and retconning its lore; and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the end of the story is part of the base game and not DLC content]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ItWasHisSled: [[spoiler:Joshua is alive]] quickly became fairly widespread knowledge shortly after the game's release. While the game's trailers and other marketing did a good job ''not'' spoiling the twist, this information is critical to a lot of the game's plot and its most emotional and epic moments, and screenshots and fanart of [[spoiler:Joshua]] flooded social media in the months after the game's release, both factors that make it difficult to have any exposure to the game without learning about this. At the least the reveal is provided fairly early in the story and there's still intrigued to be had by learning the context behind it, so knowing it doesn't really ruin one's experience.

Added: 5081

Changed: 727

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted without proper discussion


* MagnificentBastard: The [[NoNameGiven nameless]] Executor, main villain of the side quest ''An Inconvenient Truth'', is part of a shadowy organisation that suppresses and destroys heretical or otherwise inflammatory literature. When Clive finds the book ''From a Distance'' detailing the AwfulTruth of the history of the Bearers, the Executor confronts him, having tracked him all the way to the Blighted continent of Ash. When Clive refuses to give over the book, the Executor has him ambushed by goons, then affably congratulates him when he survives. The Executor then philosophises on the nature of truth, belief and history, tells Clive he can keep the book but they will one day get it anyway and [[StealthHiBye disappears without a trace.]]

to:

* MagnificentBastard: MagnificentBastard:
** [[PlayerCharacter Clive Rosfield]], [[PlayingWithFire Dominant of Ifrit]] and Shield of Rosaria, is a bitter warrior hardened by trauma and bloodshed, who nonetheless maintains an earnest desire to help the people of Valisthea. Betrayed and manipulated by higher powers into slavery, Clive dedicates himself to seeking revenge on those who wronged him and his brother Joshua, becoming one of the most feared soldiers in the Holy Empire. Upon finding his old friend Jill and stumbling upon the rebellious Hideaway, Clive sheds his military position to become an outlaw and work with Cid in dismantling the oppressive monsters ruling the land. Clive works to destroy the Mothercrystals across Valisthea and eliminate magic from the realm in an attempt to stop the Blight, destroying and absorbing the power of all enemy Dominants along the way with guile and grace. Though deemed the chosen vessel to the godly Ultima, Clive overcomes the entity's attempts at possession and uses his sheer willpower to destroy Ultima, saving the entire world while sacrificing himself to an ambiguously lethal fate. Willing to get his hands dirty with chaos yet always striving to protect the weak and defenseless, Clive is one of the franchise's most devious, complex protagonists.
** [[TheLancer Jill Warrick]], [[AnIcePerson Dominant of Shiva]], is Clive's ChildhoodFriend, trusted confidant and eventual lover. Forced to be the attack dog of the Iron Kingdom until Cid saves her and Clive, Jill devotes herself to helping Clive and finding her own atonement through freeing the world from the shackles of fate. When Clive takes the title of "Cid the Outlaw", Jill works with him to free Bearers and craft plans, leading the mission to destroy Drake's Breath with her knowledge of the area and quick thinking. Taking bloody vengeance on Imreaan, Jill and Clive plot to start a riot in the Crystalline Dominion, Jill suggesting having Gav make sure the "fires they start" keep burning. Saving Clive's life from Barnabas, Jill is taken captive, but when Clive frees her she freezes the very ocean to escape from his clutches. Giving Clive the power of Shiva which barely slows Jill down, she stays at Clive's side with faith in him and Cid's vision.
** [[TheAce Cidolfus "Cid" Telamon]], [[ShockAndAwe Dominant of Ramuh]], is the snarky, charming [[BigGood leader]] of the Hideaway and Clive's Mentor. Introduced on a mission to rescue Shiva's Dominant, Cid takes an instant shine to Clive and hopes to help him reach his potential. Teasing the lad while still making sure to encourage him, Cid realises Clive is Ifrit's Dominant and with tough love convinces him to keep living to learn the truth of his brother's death. Confiding in Clive and Jill his plot to destroy the Mothercrystals - admitting it is mostly an educated guess that this will stop the Blight and how bad it will be for people and Bearers to lose magic Crystals - and convinces them this is the right course. Giving his life destroying Drake's Head and saving Clive from Ultima's clutches, Cid leaves his legacy in Clive's hands; even after death, his adopted daughter Mid finishes their design for the ''Enterprise'' ship that is indispensable to the heroes. Cheery about the notion of being seen as an Outlaw if it means humanity's freedom, his dream is finally fulfilled by Clive defeating Ultima.
** [[WarriorPrince Prince Dion Lessage]], [[OurDragonsAreDifferent Dominant of Bahmaut]], is the charming heir to the Holy Empire of Sanbreque. Dion is a skilled warrior who leads his army into helping to expand the borders of the empire. After discovering that his father has fallen under the influence of the monstrous Ultima, Dion helps to discover that his WickedStepmother Annabelle is responsible for spurring him into the worst acts and sets about fixing the situation. Dion uses the fact he's so well respected by his people to launch a coup against his father and take the throne to stop the madness while having Annabelle and her son executed. After he is driven insane by Ultima, Dion resolves to fix the damage he caused and helps the heroes journey to Ultima's homebase to stop them. Using his skills to lure Ultima's minions into a careful trap, Dion helps to take him on and takes an attack meant for protagonist Clive, dying at peace knowing that Clive will defeat Ultima for good.
**
The [[NoNameGiven nameless]] Executor, main villain of the side quest ''An Inconvenient Truth'', is part of a shadowy organisation that suppresses and destroys heretical or otherwise inflammatory literature. When Clive finds the book ''From a Distance'' detailing the AwfulTruth of the history of the Bearers, the Executor confronts him, having tracked him all the way to the Blighted continent of Ash. When Clive refuses to give over the book, the Executor has him ambushed by goons, then affably congratulates him when he survives. The Executor then philosophises on the nature of truth, belief and history, tells Clive he can keep the book but they will one day get it anyway and [[StealthHiBye disappears without a trace.]]

Changed: 728

Removed: 5081



* MagnificentBastard:
** [[PlayerCharacter Clive Rosfield]], [[PlayingWithFire Dominant of Ifrit]] and Shield of Rosaria, is a bitter warrior hardened by trauma and bloodshed, who nonetheless maintains an earnest desire to help the people of Valisthea. Betrayed and manipulated by higher powers into slavery, Clive dedicates himself to seeking revenge on those who wronged him and his brother Joshua, becoming one of the most feared soldiers in the Holy Empire. Upon finding his old friend Jill and stumbling upon the rebellious Hideaway, Clive sheds his military position to become an outlaw and work with Cid in dismantling the oppressive monsters ruling the land. Clive works to destroy the Mothercrystals across Valisthea and eliminate magic from the realm in an attempt to stop the Blight, destroying and absorbing the power of all enemy Dominants along the way with guile and grace. Though deemed the chosen vessel to the godly Ultima, Clive overcomes the entity's attempts at possession and uses his sheer willpower to destroy Ultima, saving the entire world while sacrificing himself to an ambiguously lethal fate. Willing to get his hands dirty with chaos yet always striving to protect the weak and defenseless, Clive is one of the franchise's most devious, complex protagonists.
** [[TheLancer Jill Warrick]], [[AnIcePerson Dominant of Shiva]], is Clive's ChildhoodFriend, trusted confidant and eventual lover. Forced to be the attack dog of the Iron Kingdom until Cid saves her and Clive, Jill devotes herself to helping Clive and finding her own atonement through freeing the world from the shackles of fate. When Clive takes the title of "Cid the Outlaw", Jill works with him to free Bearers and craft plans, leading the mission to destroy Drake's Breath with her knowledge of the area and quick thinking. Taking bloody vengeance on Imreaan, Jill and Clive plot to start a riot in the Crystalline Dominion, Jill suggesting having Gav make sure the "fires they start" keep burning. Saving Clive's life from Barnabas, Jill is taken captive, but when Clive frees her she freezes the very ocean to escape from his clutches. Giving Clive the power of Shiva which barely slows Jill down, she stays at Clive's side with faith in him and Cid's vision.
** [[TheAce Cidolfus "Cid" Telamon]], [[ShockAndAwe Dominant of Ramuh]], is the snarky, charming [[BigGood leader]] of the Hideaway and Clive's Mentor. Introduced on a mission to rescue Shiva's Dominant, Cid takes an instant shine to Clive and hopes to help him reach his potential. Teasing the lad while still making sure to encourage him, Cid realises Clive is Ifrit's Dominant and with tough love convinces him to keep living to learn the truth of his brother's death. Confiding in Clive and Jill his plot to destroy the Mothercrystals - admitting it is mostly an educated guess that this will stop the Blight and how bad it will be for people and Bearers to lose magic Crystals - and convinces them this is the right course. Giving his life destroying Drake's Head and saving Clive from Ultima's clutches, Cid leaves his legacy in Clive's hands; even after death, his adopted daughter Mid finishes their design for the ''Enterprise'' ship that is indispensable to the heroes. Cheery about the notion of being seen as an Outlaw if it means humanity's freedom, his dream is finally fulfilled by Clive defeating Ultima.
** [[WarriorPrince Prince Dion Lessage]], [[OurDragonsAreDifferent Dominant of Bahmaut]], is the charming heir to the Holy Empire of Sanbreque. Dion is a skilled warrior who leads his army into helping to expand the borders of the empire. After discovering that his father has fallen under the influence of the monstrous Ultima, Dion helps to discover that his WickedStepmother Annabelle is responsible for spurring him into the worst acts and sets about fixing the situation. Dion uses the fact he's so well respected by his people to launch a coup against his father and take the throne to stop the madness while having Annabelle and her son executed. After he is driven insane by Ultima, Dion resolves to fix the damage he caused and helps the heroes journey to Ultima's homebase to stop them. Using his skills to lure Ultima's minions into a careful trap, Dion helps to take him on and takes an attack meant for protagonist Clive, dying at peace knowing that Clive will defeat Ultima for good.
** The [[NoNameGiven nameless]] Executor, main villain of the side quest ''An Inconvenient Truth'', is part of a shadowy organisation that suppresses and destroys heretical or otherwise inflammatory literature. When Clive finds the book ''From a Distance'' detailing the AwfulTruth of the history of the Bearers, the Executor confronts him, having tracked him all the way to the Blighted continent of Ash. When Clive refuses to give over the book, the Executor has him ambushed by goons, then affably congratulates him when he survives. The Executor then philosophises on the nature of truth, belief and history, tells Clive he can keep the book but they will one day get it anyway and [[StealthHiBye disappears without a trace.]]

to:

* MagnificentBastard:
** [[PlayerCharacter Clive Rosfield]], [[PlayingWithFire Dominant of Ifrit]] and Shield of Rosaria, is a bitter warrior hardened by trauma and bloodshed, who nonetheless maintains an earnest desire to help the people of Valisthea. Betrayed and manipulated by higher powers into slavery, Clive dedicates himself to seeking revenge on those who wronged him and his brother Joshua, becoming one of the most feared soldiers in the Holy Empire. Upon finding his old friend Jill and stumbling upon the rebellious Hideaway, Clive sheds his military position to become an outlaw and work with Cid in dismantling the oppressive monsters ruling the land. Clive works to destroy the Mothercrystals across Valisthea and eliminate magic from the realm in an attempt to stop the Blight, destroying and absorbing the power of all enemy Dominants along the way with guile and grace. Though deemed the chosen vessel to the godly Ultima, Clive overcomes the entity's attempts at possession and uses his sheer willpower to destroy Ultima, saving the entire world while sacrificing himself to an ambiguously lethal fate. Willing to get his hands dirty with chaos yet always striving to protect the weak and defenseless, Clive is one of the franchise's most devious, complex protagonists.
** [[TheLancer Jill Warrick]], [[AnIcePerson Dominant of Shiva]], is Clive's ChildhoodFriend, trusted confidant and eventual lover. Forced to be the attack dog of the Iron Kingdom until Cid saves her and Clive, Jill devotes herself to helping Clive and finding her own atonement through freeing the world from the shackles of fate. When Clive takes the title of "Cid the Outlaw", Jill works with him to free Bearers and craft plans, leading the mission to destroy Drake's Breath with her knowledge of the area and quick thinking. Taking bloody vengeance on Imreaan, Jill and Clive plot to start a riot in the Crystalline Dominion, Jill suggesting having Gav make sure the "fires they start" keep burning. Saving Clive's life from Barnabas, Jill is taken captive, but when Clive frees her she freezes the very ocean to escape from his clutches. Giving Clive the power of Shiva which barely slows Jill down, she stays at Clive's side with faith in him and Cid's vision.
** [[TheAce Cidolfus "Cid" Telamon]], [[ShockAndAwe Dominant of Ramuh]], is the snarky, charming [[BigGood leader]] of the Hideaway and Clive's Mentor. Introduced on a mission to rescue Shiva's Dominant, Cid takes an instant shine to Clive and hopes to help him reach his potential. Teasing the lad while still making sure to encourage him, Cid realises Clive is Ifrit's Dominant and with tough love convinces him to keep living to learn the truth of his brother's death. Confiding in Clive and Jill his plot to destroy the Mothercrystals - admitting it is mostly an educated guess that this will stop the Blight and how bad it will be for people and Bearers to lose magic Crystals - and convinces them this is the right course. Giving his life destroying Drake's Head and saving Clive from Ultima's clutches, Cid leaves his legacy in Clive's hands; even after death, his adopted daughter Mid finishes their design for the ''Enterprise'' ship that is indispensable to the heroes. Cheery about the notion of being seen as an Outlaw if it means humanity's freedom, his dream is finally fulfilled by Clive defeating Ultima.
** [[WarriorPrince Prince Dion Lessage]], [[OurDragonsAreDifferent Dominant of Bahmaut]], is the charming heir to the Holy Empire of Sanbreque. Dion is a skilled warrior who leads his army into helping to expand the borders of the empire. After discovering that his father has fallen under the influence of the monstrous Ultima, Dion helps to discover that his WickedStepmother Annabelle is responsible for spurring him into the worst acts and sets about fixing the situation. Dion uses the fact he's so well respected by his people to launch a coup against his father and take the throne to stop the madness while having Annabelle and her son executed. After he is driven insane by Ultima, Dion resolves to fix the damage he caused and helps the heroes journey to Ultima's homebase to stop them. Using his skills to lure Ultima's minions into a careful trap, Dion helps to take him on and takes an attack meant for protagonist Clive, dying at peace knowing that Clive will defeat Ultima for good.
**
MagnificentBastard: The [[NoNameGiven nameless]] Executor, main villain of the side quest ''An Inconvenient Truth'', is part of a shadowy organisation that suppresses and destroys heretical or otherwise inflammatory literature. When Clive finds the book ''From a Distance'' detailing the AwfulTruth of the history of the Bearers, the Executor confronts him, having tracked him all the way to the Blighted continent of Ash. When Clive refuses to give over the book, the Executor has him ambushed by goons, then affably congratulates him when he survives. The Executor then philosophises on the nature of truth, belief and history, tells Clive he can keep the book but they will one day get it anyway and [[StealthHiBye disappears without a trace.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I don't think I've seen this point made often, so I don't really think it is warranted. Even if it was, the entry needs to be adjusted because how it is worded feeling very "The settings sucks and should be destroyed", which is a weird choice to describe the setting as even if it was true, and doesn't really represent all viewers or even a number of them it seems.


* TooBleakStoppedCaring: A common critique of the story (mostly pertaining to the first half) is that the apalling treatment of Bearers often becomes too much to handle, especially when it often gets placed in the player's face so often. Many players have found themselves feeling like the world of ''XVI'' is beyond saving due to the sheer vitriol and hate, and found themselves wishing for an option to destroy everything.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FandomSpecificPlot: {{Fix Fic}}s where [[spoiler:Dion survives the end of the game and reunites with Terrence]] or (though to a lesser extent) [[spoiler:Clive survives to reunite with Jill and Joshua]] became incredibly common shortly after the game's release. It helps that both characters suffer UncertainDoom.

to:

* FandomSpecificPlot: {{Fix Fic}}s where [[spoiler:Dion survives the end of the game and reunites with Terrence]] or (though to a lesser extent) [[spoiler:Clive survives to reunite with Jill and Joshua]] became incredibly common shortly after the game's release. It helps that both characters suffer UncertainDoom. PeggySue fics where post-game Clive [[spoiler:(or, occasionally, Joshua)]] are sent back in time to before Phoenix Gate are also ''incredibly'' common.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MemeticBadass: Jote has gained this reputation among fans, due to her outfit being based on that of the Tonberry.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Is Anabella's love for Joshua genuine, or is it linked to his status as the Phoenix.

to:

** Is Anabella's How does Anabella truly feel about her family? While her contempt for Clive is obvious, her relationships with Elwin and Joshua are less clear-cut. The scene of her and Elwin in their bedroom can be interpretated as her trying to win him over to her line of thinking, with the subsequent implication her betraying the Duchy to the Empire only came about because she was unsuccessful. For Joshua, it's clear she cares about him and is heartbroken at his death, but is that out of geniune love for Joshua genuine, him or is it linked a vicarious attachment to his status as the Phoenix.Phoenix? Was her having Olivier with the Emperor proof all she wanted was a powerful son, or had she simply moved on in the decade between Joshua's death and Olivier's birth? The confrontation with her at Twinside supports both views, as she claims her motives for betraying the Duchy and joining the Empire were to produce a son from both the lines of Bahamut and the Phoenix who would be the world's savior, meaning she intended to replace Joshua with a 'better' son even before he died. But she's also clearly saddened at the mention of Joshua and hasn't gotten over his death nearly twenty years later.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TooBleakStoppedCaring: A common critique of the story (mostly pertaining to the first half) is that the apalling treatment of Bearers often becomes too much to handle, especially when it often gets placed in the player's face so often. Many players have found themselves feeling like the world of ''XVI'' is beyond saving due to the sheer vitriol and hate, and found themselves wishing for an option to destroy everything.

Added: 373

Changed: 1012

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Anvilicious}}: This game ''really'' wants you to have a [[SlaveryIsASpecialKindOfEvil low opinion of slavery and anyone who partakes in it]]. A lot of the dark elements come from just how horrifically Clive and other Bearers are treated. The anviliciousness lightens up considerably in the second half of the game to make room for more pressing issues, but never goes away entirely.
** There's also the crystals themselves, which become pure Aesoptinium. A prized and fought-over resource that is indirectly causing a massive ecological disaster that slowly drives the planet uninhabitable, yet nobody in power wants to admit what is obviously the source of their problems and ensuring their descendants won't have a world to rule? Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: {{Anvilicious}}:
**
This game ''really'' wants you to have a [[SlaveryIsASpecialKindOfEvil low opinion of slavery and anyone who partakes in it]]. A lot of the dark elements come from just how horrifically Clive and other Bearers are treated. The anviliciousness lightens up considerably in the second half of the game to make room for more pressing issues, but never goes away entirely.
** There's also the The crystals themselves, which become themselves are pure Aesoptinium. A prized and fought-over resource that is indirectly causing a massive ecological disaster that slowly drives the planet uninhabitable, yet nobody in power wants to admit what is obviously the source of their problems and problems, in the process ensuring their descendants won't have a world to rule? Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** There's also the crystals themselves, which become pure Aesoptinium. A prized and fought-over resource that is indirectly causing a massive ecological disaster that slowly drives the planet uninhabitable, yet nobody in power wants to admit what is obviously the source of their problems and ensuring their descendants won't have a world to rule? Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...

Added: 453

Changed: 363

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: How complicit was Barnabas in [[spoiler:Ultima's]] plan? Was he being manipulated into doing his bidding somehow? Did he realize the full implications of his master's schemes and was all for it, or was he tricked or lied to? Or was Barnabas so delusional and devoted to his religion that he actually thought that in some twisted way, he was doing the right thing?

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
How complicit was Barnabas in [[spoiler:Ultima's]] plan? Was he being manipulated into doing his bidding somehow? Did he realize the full implications of his master's schemes and was all for it, or was he tricked or lied to? Or was Barnabas so delusional and devoted to his religion that he actually thought that in some twisted way, he was doing the right thing?thing?
** Is Anabella's love for Joshua genuine, or is it linked to his status as the Phoenix.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* KarmicOverkill: The sidequest "All Bark" ends with a nobleman and his son being mauled to death by wolves after tricking Bearers into attacking their own pet wolf and being mauled to death for their own amusement. While the father definitely has it coming, the son looks to be a pre-teen and his worldview was almost certainly heavily influenced by his father. When a minor and an adult are engaged in a common act of wrongdoing, especially when the adult is in a position of authority over the minor, it is generally accepted that the adult bears the majority of the blame, and the fact that the son is killed on the spot without any attempt at rehabilitating him being made comes off as rather unfair.

to:

* KarmicOverkill: The sidequest "All Bark" ends with a nobleman and his son being mauled to death by wolves after tricking Bearers into attacking their own pet wolf and being mauled to death for their own amusement. While the father definitely has it coming, the son looks to be a pre-teen and his worldview was almost certainly heavily influenced by his father. When a minor and an adult are engaged in a common act of wrongdoing, especially when the adult is in a position of authority over the minor, it is generally accepted that the adult bears the majority of the blame, and the fact that the son is killed on the spot without any attempt at rehabilitating him being made and the NPC Raymond's attitude about the situation being "eat dirt and die" comes off as rather unfair.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AccidentalAesop: Be satisfied with what you have; flying too close to the sun is going to be nothing but trouble. [[spoiler:Anabella's entire scheme came about because she wasn't satisfied with being a duchess of Rosaria, despite being queen in all but name. She sold out to the enemy and violently tore apart her own family to join Sanbreque's ruling faction, not considering that [[RewardedAsATraitorDeserves said faction would treat her with scorn for being a treacherous]] SocialClimber and ''already'' had a crown prince in the form of Dion. Even if Sanbreque's ambition is taken into account, Anabella's betrayal could have been settled with AltarDiplomacy and/or unconditional surrender rather than a full-blown massacre. On top of that, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain sparing Clive when she could have killed him]] [[CreateYourOwnHero ended up creating Sanbreque's downfall]], meaning everything Anabella worked for [[AllForNothing was rendered worthless.]]]]

to:

* AccidentalAesop: Be satisfied with what you have; flying too close to the sun is going to be nothing but trouble. [[spoiler:Anabella's entire scheme came about because she wasn't satisfied with being a duchess of Rosaria, despite being queen in all but name. She sold out to the enemy and violently tore apart her own family to join Sanbreque's ruling faction, not considering that [[RewardedAsATraitorDeserves said faction would treat her with scorn for being a treacherous]] SocialClimber and ''already'' had a crown prince in the form of Dion.Dion, the Dominant of Bahamut. Even if Sanbreque's ambition is taken into account, Anabella's betrayal could have been settled with AltarDiplomacy and/or unconditional surrender rather than a full-blown massacre. On top of that, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain sparing Clive when she could have killed him]] [[CreateYourOwnHero ended up creating Sanbreque's downfall]], meaning everything Anabella worked for [[AllForNothing was rendered worthless.]]]]

Added: 705

Changed: 550

Removed: 536

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* InferredHolocaust: By the end of the game, Valisthea is in ''seriously'' dire straits with no indication of its current issues being resolved. For example, [[spoiler:it's implied that the vast majority of the human population of Valisthea has been wiped out. The Empire of Sanbreque has completely crumbled, the Crystalline Dominion is completely destroyed by Origin's activation, the entire population of the Kingdom of Waloed has been turned Akashic, and Akashic monsters have already attacked the remaining human cities in a full ZombieApocalypse scenario. Assuming the Akashic monsters disappear along with the Mothercrystals, Valisthea is still largely devastated. The Hideaway manages to avoid all of the chaos, but since they are based in a Blighted area and still need resources from the outside world, their prospects aren't looking too good either. Finally, even with the Mothercrystals gone, there's no indication the issue of the Blight will be solved, as Ultima believes it will inevitably return]]. The only indication that [[NoEndorHolocaust this isn't the case]] is if [[spoiler:you interpret the epilogue as being set in Valisthea's distant future]].
** [[spoiler:There are some hints that humanity will keep going though. The emphasis on the strong will of humanity, and the final side quests showing your scattered associates banding together to reinforce and rebuild their homes even in the worst of times. There’s also the fact that the final side quests for the Backyard show that the gardeners are now growing many medicinal flowers and fruits on blighted soil… implying that they might be able to renew and improve what’s left of the world with their new, magickless techniques.]]

to:

* InferredHolocaust: By the end of the game, Valisthea is in ''seriously'' dire straits with no indication of its current issues being resolved. For example, [[spoiler:it's implied that the vast majority of the human population of Valisthea has been wiped out. The Empire of Sanbreque has completely crumbled, the Crystalline Dominion is completely destroyed by Origin's activation, the entire population of the Kingdom of Waloed has been turned Akashic, and Akashic monsters have already attacked the remaining human cities in a full ZombieApocalypse scenario. Assuming the Akashic monsters disappear along with the Mothercrystals, Valisthea is still largely devastated. The Hideaway manages to avoid all of the chaos, but since they are based in a Blighted area and still need resources from the outside world, their prospects aren't looking too good either. Finally, even with the Mothercrystals gone, there's no indication the issue of the Blight will be solved, as Ultima believes it will inevitably return]]. The only indication that [[NoEndorHolocaust this isn't the case]] is if [[spoiler:you interpret the epilogue as being set in Valisthea's distant future]].
** [[spoiler:There
future]].[[note]][[spoiler:There are some hints that humanity will keep going though. The emphasis on the strong will of humanity, and the final side quests showing your scattered associates banding together to reinforce and rebuild their homes even in the worst of times. There’s also the fact that the final side quests for the Backyard show that the gardeners are now growing many medicinal flowers and fruits on blighted soil… implying that they might be able to renew and improve what’s left of the world with their new, magickless techniques.]]]][[/note]]


Added DiffLines:

* KarmicOverkill: The sidequest "All Bark" ends with a nobleman and his son being mauled to death by wolves after tricking Bearers into attacking their own pet wolf and being mauled to death for their own amusement. While the father definitely has it coming, the son looks to be a pre-teen and his worldview was almost certainly heavily influenced by his father. When a minor and an adult are engaged in a common act of wrongdoing, especially when the adult is in a position of authority over the minor, it is generally accepted that the adult bears the majority of the blame, and the fact that the son is killed on the spot without any attempt at rehabilitating him being made comes off as rather unfair.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** [[spoiler:There are some hints that humanity will keep going though. The emphasis on the strong will of humanity, and the final side quests showing your scattered associates banding together to reinforce and rebuild their homes even in the worst of times. There’s also the fact that the final side quests for the Backyard show that the gardeners are now growing many medicinal flowers and fruits on blighted soil… implying that they might be able to renew and improve what’s left of the world with their new, magickless techniques.]]

Changed: 163

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[SinisterMinister Imreann]], the HighPriest of Crystalline Orthodox and leader of the Iron Kingdom, stands as one of the wickedest supporting villains in the entire franchise. Imreann is the facilitator of the Iron Kingdom's RapePillageAndBurn of the surrounding kingdoms, having his men move in and enslave the women and girls as {{Sex Slave}}s. Imreann also horribly oppresses and kills the magic users known as the Bearers as part of his fanatical crusade against those he deems impure to the Mothercrystals. Imreann leads the sack of the capital of [[Characters/FinalFantasyXVITheGrandDuchyOfRosaria Rosaria]], with the men massacred and the women and girls enslaved. Finding the 13-year-old Jill Warrick, Imreann uses the lives of innocent child magic users--the Bearers--as a way to blackmail her into being his attack dog using her powers as Shiva. Imreann uses her to lay waste to other kingdoms but has been [[WouldHurtAChild secretly murdering the children]] as {{Human Sacrifice}}s anyway due to his fanatical hatred of the Bearers. When confronted by Jill, Imreann is unapologetic, degrading her as useless.

to:

** [[SinisterMinister **[[SinisterMinister Imreann]], the HighPriest of Crystalline Orthodox and leader of the Iron Kingdom, stands as one of the wickedest supporting villains in the entire franchise. Imreann is the facilitator of the Iron Kingdom's RapePillageAndBurn of the surrounding kingdoms, having his men move in and enslave the women and girls as {{Sex Slave}}s. Imreann also horribly oppresses and kills the magic users known as the Bearers as part of his fanatical crusade against those he deems impure to the Mothercrystals. Imreann leads the sack of the capital of [[Characters/FinalFantasyXVITheGrandDuchyOfRosaria Rosaria]], with the men massacred and the women and girls enslaved. Finding the 13-year-old Jill Warrick, Imreann uses the lives of innocent child magic users--the Bearers--as a way to blackmail her into being his attack dog using her powers as Shiva. Imreann uses her to lay waste to other kingdoms but has been [[WouldHurtAChild secretly murdering the children]] as {{Human Sacrifice}}s anyway due to his fanatical hatred of the Bearers. In addition, the original Japanese localisation reveals that Imreann has himself been sexually preying on the young female slaves that he sacrifices. When eventually confronted by Jill, Imreann is unapologetic, degrading her as useless. useless.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One leading criticism is that of the story role of Jill, Clive's ChildhoodFriend, LoveInterest, and [[TheLancer closest companion]] that accompanies him through most of the game. While she has her own character arc and has the most side quests dedicated to her as a character, she doesn't actually have that much relevance to the plot apart from serving as TheFace for Clive during the first time skip, [[spoiler:leading the attack on the Iron Kingdom's Mothercrystal, and getting captured by Barnabas]] and largely is relegated to the backseat in favor of the relationship between Clive and Joshua, sitting out of major events despite being present for such as the fight with Bahamut. Also, despite being the Dominant of Shiva, she very rarely uses Shiva's powers, in contrast to the other Dominants. Tellingly, players have regularly cited Jill needing some kind of post-launch content.

to:

** One leading criticism is that of the story role of Jill, Clive's ChildhoodFriend, LoveInterest, and [[TheLancer closest companion]] that accompanies him through most of the game. While she has her own character arc and has the most side quests dedicated to her as a character, she doesn't actually have that much relevance to the plot apart from serving as TheFace for Clive during the first time skip, [[spoiler:leading the attack on the Iron Kingdom's Mothercrystal, and getting captured by Barnabas]] and Barnabas]]. Otherwise she's largely is relegated to the backseat in favor of exploring the relationship between Clive and Joshua, sitting [[spoiler:Joshua]], and sits out of several major story events despite being present for at them, such as the fight battle with Bahamut.[[spoiler:Bahamut]]. Also, despite being the Dominant of Shiva, she very rarely uses Shiva's powers, in contrast to the other Dominants. Tellingly, players have regularly when the discussion of additional DLC or patch content came up shortly after the game's release, Jill is cited Jill needing some kind by many fans as one of post-launch content.the characters who needs it most.

Changed: 956

Removed: 1942

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
That covers 5/7 Eikons, so not really the trope anymore


* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
** Garuda is one of the most commonly used Eikons simply because her abilities are good at every point of the game in most every situation for any kind of playstyle; Gouge is excellent for quickly draining an opponent's stagger gauge, Rook's Gambit is a dodge-and-counterattack type move, Wicked Wheel spins Clive and nearby enemies up into the air (which combos perfectly with Downthrust or Titan's Upheaval), and Aerial Blast can chainstun groups of smaller enemies or deal continuous stagger damage to larger enemies. Plus her Eikonic Feat Deadly Embrace pulls smaller enemies towards Clive or launches him into the air if used against larger enemies, and at half stagger it can temporarily stun larger enemies and leave them wide-open for a follow-up attack. No other Eikon has an Eikonic Feat with such diverse interactions with enemy types and their stagger gauge, and on top of Garuda's other tools for both mobs and bosses, she's all-around excellent.
** The other common Eikons tend to be Phoenix, Shiva, Odin, or Titan, depending on the player.
*** Phoenix Shift is just a standard [[BoringButPractical gap-closer]]. Given how easy it is to use in both closing gap, whether it's to combo or deal with aerial and ranged mooks, expect this to not ever move out of rotation.
*** Cold Snap, Shiva's Eikonic feat is a dodging feat that, when done at the right time, freezes the enemy, regardless of size. Diamond Dust is also an incredibly powerful skill, owning to its area of effect and stagger damage.
*** Arm of Darkness turns Clive's weapon into a longer sword, which not only changes his moveset, but when the meter builds up, can unleash a power move called Zantetsuken.
*** Raging Fists make for an effective counter, nullifying damage when timed right and unleashing heavy damage and being especially useful in staggering enemies. Titanic Block achieves similar results as a decent parry with a three-hit combo dealing decent damage.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
**
ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Garuda is one of the most commonly used Eikons simply because her abilities are good at every point of the game in most every situation for any kind of playstyle; Gouge is excellent for quickly draining an opponent's stagger gauge, Rook's Gambit is a dodge-and-counterattack type move, Wicked Wheel spins Clive and nearby enemies up into the air (which combos perfectly with Downthrust or Titan's Upheaval), and Aerial Blast can chainstun groups of smaller enemies or deal continuous stagger damage to larger enemies. Plus her Eikonic Feat Deadly Embrace pulls smaller enemies towards Clive or launches him into the air if used against larger enemies, and at half stagger it can temporarily stun larger enemies and leave them wide-open for a follow-up attack. No other Eikon has an Eikonic Feat with such diverse interactions with enemy types and their stagger gauge, and on top of Garuda's other tools for both mobs and bosses, she's all-around excellent.
** The other common Eikons tend to be Phoenix, Shiva, Odin, or Titan, depending on the player.
*** Phoenix Shift is just a standard [[BoringButPractical gap-closer]]. Given how easy it is to use in both closing gap, whether it's to combo or deal with aerial and ranged mooks, expect this to not ever move out of rotation.
*** Cold Snap, Shiva's Eikonic feat is a dodging feat that, when done at the right time, freezes the enemy, regardless of size. Diamond Dust is also an incredibly powerful skill, owning to its area of effect and stagger damage.
*** Arm of Darkness turns Clive's weapon into a longer sword, which not only changes his moveset, but when the meter builds up, can unleash a power move called Zantetsuken.
*** Raging Fists make for an effective counter, nullifying damage when timed right and unleashing heavy damage and being especially useful in staggering enemies. Titanic Block achieves similar results as a decent parry with a three-hit combo dealing decent damage.
excellent.

Added: 264

Changed: 11

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The other common Eikons tend to be Phoenix, Shiva, or Odin, depending on the player.

to:

** The other common Eikons tend to be Phoenix, Shiva, or Odin, or Titan, depending on the player.


Added DiffLines:

*** Raging Fists make for an effective counter, nullifying damage when timed right and unleashing heavy damage and being especially useful in staggering enemies. Titanic Block achieves similar results as a decent parry with a three-hit combo dealing decent damage.

Top