History YMMV / FateApocrypha

15th Jan '18 1:07:21 PM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''. It says something when she's killed off by Mordred that absolutely none of the remaining Yggdmillenia members bat an eye when they learn of it.

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* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink [[WickedWitch Celenike Icecolle Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the [[BitchInSheepsClothing only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. Celenike practices blood magic, sacrificing innocents, including children, which she takes great pleasure in. A {{sadist}}ic sadistic dominatrix, she owns Celenike keeps a dungeon [[TortureCellar dungeon]] in her spare time where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" her, or just those who catch her fancy for the fun of it. In between missions, Celenike will very regularly torture, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape]] and murder attractive young men, especially homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, deems "useless". Celenike also become fixated on her Servant Astolfo. After getting becoming jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, a homunculus who has formed an identity, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all uses her Command Spells Seals to order force Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''. It says something when she's killed off franchise, Celenike is motivated by Mordred that absolutely none of the remaining Yggdmillenia members bat an eye when they learn of it.nothing more than cruel lust and unrestrained sadism.
14th Jan '18 1:12:26 AM MBG159
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** And on Jeanne's side, Mordred's a fair bit more well-liked as a paramour, with their stronger chemistry and overall similarities and contrasts as characters.
13th Jan '18 11:18:59 PM Prometheus117
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** There's a bit between [[LesYay Mordred and Semiramis]] though mostly on Semiramis's end [[FoeYay and of the violent kind]]. After Semiramis poisons Mordred with her Noble Phantasm during their final battle and leaves her struggling to survive, [[WeCanRuleTogether she offers Mordred a chance to live and even get her wish]] if she kills her Master Kairi and "becomes her knight". What pushes it into suggestive territory is that she says this while getting ''very'' close to Mordred before cupping her chin with one hand and smiling into her face. Even before that, the two repeatedly trade insults and physical blows more viciously than nearly any other Servants.

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** There's a bit between [[LesYay Mordred and Semiramis]] though mostly on Semiramis's end [[FoeYay and of the violent kind]]. After Semiramis poisons Mordred with her Noble Phantasm during their final battle and leaves her struggling to survive, [[WeCanRuleTogether she offers Mordred a chance to live and even get her wish]] if she kills her Master Kairi and "becomes her [Semiramis's] knight". What pushes it into suggestive territory is that she says this while getting ''very'' close to Mordred before cupping her chin with one hand and smiling into her face. Even before that, the two repeatedly trade insults and physical blows more viciously than nearly any other Servants.
13th Jan '18 11:16:30 PM Prometheus117
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* HoYay: Plenty of Sieg's moments with Astolfo while either ranging from hilarious to incredibly touching absolutely ''reek'' of this. Made more apparent in the light novel when Astolfo gently comforts Sieg while the other is suffering an intense panic attack from all his near-death experiences. There's also a moment where after an insensitive remark by Sieg results in Astolfo harshly slapping him they're very quick to reconcile with Astolfo claiming Sieg is his everything when Sieg says he can easily be replaced by another Master in the event he dies so that Astolfo doesn't have to die after him, and they actually end up sleeping and cuddling in the same bed together. More than once. ''And there's so much more where that came from...''

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* HoYay: HoYay:
**
Plenty of Sieg's moments with Astolfo Astolfo, while either ranging from hilarious to incredibly touching touching, absolutely ''reek'' of this. Made more apparent in the light novel when Astolfo gently comforts Sieg while the other is suffering an intense panic attack from all his near-death experiences. There's also a moment where after an insensitive remark by Sieg results in Astolfo harshly slapping him they're very quick to reconcile with Astolfo claiming Sieg is his everything when Sieg says he can easily be replaced by another Master in the event he dies so that Astolfo doesn't have to die after him, and they actually end up sleeping and cuddling in the same bed together. More than once. ''And there's so much more where that came from...''''
** There's a bit between [[LesYay Mordred and Semiramis]] though mostly on Semiramis's end [[FoeYay and of the violent kind]]. After Semiramis poisons Mordred with her Noble Phantasm during their final battle and leaves her struggling to survive, [[WeCanRuleTogether she offers Mordred a chance to live and even get her wish]] if she kills her Master Kairi and "becomes her knight". What pushes it into suggestive territory is that she says this while getting ''very'' close to Mordred before cupping her chin with one hand and smiling into her face. Even before that, the two repeatedly trade insults and physical blows more viciously than nearly any other Servants.
12th Jan '18 5:58:03 PM Ogiga99
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** [[spoiler:Chiron being able to use his Noble Phantasm, "Antares Snipe: Scorpion Shot", without having to [[CallingYourAttacks call]] the Noble Phantasm out. The issue with him being able to do it is that, according to the basic lore of the ''Fate'' series, Servants have to call forth their Noble Phantasm to be able to use its power. There are some rare exceptions to this, but in most cases those Noble Phantasms are armor they wear by default [[note]]Mordred's "Secret of Pedigree: Helmet That Conceals Infidelity" being an example[[/note]], or a buff the Servant has by default [[note]]Heracles from ''Fate Stay Night'' has God Hand permanently activated, while in Apocrypha itself Achilles has his invincibility permanently active provided he isn't shot in the heel[[/note]], while Chiron's Noble Phantasm is one that is similar to the other attack based Noble Phantasms. This could of been forgiven as Chiron's explanation was that, when he died, he became part of the constellations, and since the fight took place at night, his attack was stronger then normal, but this is revealed as he lays dying from fighting Achilles, meaning the attack comes out of no where, and he never once alludes to him being able to do such as thing. Not helping is that Chiron never used his Noble Phantasm at all until that moment, meaning the context for the attack and the power behind it, were never conveyed to the viewers. Like with the above {{Asspull}}, it comes across as a poor way to nerf the overpowered Red Faction by weakening Achilles so he could be killed, and to get rid of Chiron]].
9th Jan '18 11:37:14 PM ChrisX
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** Spartacus and '''DOWN WITH OPPRESSION!!!''' [[labelnote:Explanation]]Fighting against oppression is Spartacus' tricks of trade, and seeing that he's got Mad Enchantment, fans tend to think that Spartacus likes to yell anti-oppression things to define himself, defying logic all the way.[[/labelnote]]
** Cardboard-kun [[labelnote:Explanation]]Since Sieg was quite controversial, [[AmericansHateTingle at least in the Western side of the fandom]], there are often times that there are memetic images which replaced Sieg with a cardboard, or put a picture of his face on a cardboard to emphasis their thought that he's as boring as a cardboard, which is also his FanNickname.[[/labelnote]]
9th Jan '18 11:20:09 PM Tenma-Yuuki
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* HoYay: Plenty of Sieg's moments with Astolfo while either ranging from hilarious to incredibly touching absolutely ''reek'' of this. Made more apparent in the light novel when Astolfo gently comforts Sieg while the other is suffering an intense panic attack from all his near-death experiences. There's also a moment where after an insensitive remark by Sieg results in Astolfo harshly slapping him they're very quick to reconcile with Astolfo claiming Sieg is his everything when Sieg says he can easily be replaced by another Master in the event he dies so that Astolfo doesn't have to die after him, and they actually end up sleeping and cuddling in the same bed together. More than once. ''And there's so much more where that came from...''
6th Jan '18 8:59:02 PM overman2099
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* BetterOnDVD: Due to the serialized nature of the story and just how much the entire anime feels more like an extended movie, watching multiple episodes at once might feel more immersive than taking in each episode individually as standalones.
4th Jan '18 6:41:27 PM 00Altair
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** Sieg. Some like him and consider him an interesting take on Nasuverse protagonists with a good arc that fleshes him out into a hero, but others think of him as a bland, badly-written CanonSue character whose presence in the story is barely felt and takes time away from other, more interesting characters (most prominently, Siegfried himself), and keeps getting undeserved power ups from characters that don't even know him (most blatantly, Fran's sacrifice that ''somehow'' empowered him). Comparisons to the worst traits of [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou Emiya]] are common. His pairing with Jeanne is also controversial--either it's enjoyable and similar to Shirou and Artoria's relationship, or it's forced and cringey. It's to the point that his voice actor Creator/NatsukiHanae has promised to try and make Sieg as likeable as possible--to his credit, his voice work doesn't seem to have ''added'' to the arguments and at least made the Japanese like him more that he was included amongst the Top 10 Anime Protagonist list in a magazine during Apocrypha's run, [[AmericansHateTingle but that never became a factor to overseas fans.]]

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** Sieg.Sieg is this for Western and Chinese fans. Some like him and consider him an interesting take on Nasuverse protagonists with a good arc that fleshes him out into a hero, but others think of him as a bland, badly-written CanonSue character whose presence in the story is barely felt and takes time away from other, more interesting characters (most prominently, Siegfried himself), and keeps getting undeserved power ups from characters that don't even know him (most blatantly, Fran's sacrifice that ''somehow'' empowered him). Comparisons to the worst traits of [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou Emiya]] are common. His pairing with Jeanne is also controversial--either it's enjoyable and similar to Shirou and Artoria's relationship, or it's forced and cringey. It's to the point that his voice actor Creator/NatsukiHanae has promised to try and make Sieg as likeable as possible--to his credit, his voice work doesn't seem to have ''added'' to possible. On the arguments and at least made other hand the Japanese like him more well enough, to the point that he was included amongst the Top 10 Anime Protagonist list managed to score 6th place in a magazine during Apocrypha's run, [[AmericansHateTingle but that never became a factor popularity poll held by the Newtype magazine.[[note]]Though thanks to overseas fans.]]the magazine's reputation among some circles, people call into question how accurate said poll was.[[/note]]
2nd Jan '18 6:15:28 PM ChrisX
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Both Mordred and Kairi Shishigou were already well-received in Japan, but had to compete with other characters (namely Jeanne, Astolfo and even Sieg). In the American fanbase, they were MUCH more well-loved to the point that they believe they deserve the main protagonist spot as opposed to Sieg, [[AmericansHateTingle who was instead despised there (story-related reasons already listed above)]]. ValuesDissonance is in play for great effects here: Mordred being the tomboyish daredevil and Shishigou being a [[RatedMForManly manly man]] with CoolShades fit well with the Western tastes as opposed to Sieg's frail shape, [[{{Bishonen}} rather androgynous]] look which the Japanese couldn't get enough of, but it's not as well-received in the West.

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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Both Mordred and Kairi Shishigou were already well-received in Japan, but had to compete with other characters (namely Jeanne, Astolfo and even Sieg). In the American fanbase, they were MUCH more well-loved to the point that they believe they deserve the main protagonist spot as opposed to Sieg, [[AmericansHateTingle who was instead despised there (story-related reasons already listed above)]]. ValuesDissonance is in play for great effects here: Mordred being the tomboyish daredevil and Shishigou being a [[RatedMForManly manly man]] with CoolShades and both of them being [[AntiHero anti-heroic]] to a degree fit well with the Western tastes as opposed to Sieg's frail shape, [[{{Bishonen}} rather androgynous]] look and being a straight-up heroic character which the Japanese couldn't get enough of, but it's not as well-received in the West.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.FateApocrypha