History YMMV / FateApocrypha

19th Oct '17 3:47:23 PM keyblade333
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The majority of the criticisms towards Sieg are an extension of criticisms that most Nasuverse main characters are criticized for as well[[note]]Namely they are seen as boring, having no personality, overpowered for no reason, and often seen as being idiotically reckless[[/note]]. However, at least ''Fate'' wise, [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou Emiya]] has a lot of HiddenDepths that make him an extremely complex character that gets expanded by three unique story routes, the main character of ''VideoGame/FateEXTRA''[[note]]Hakuno Kishinami[[/note]] is a PlayerCharacter who is revealed to be an NPC based off a person killed in the real world, thus justifying their somewhat bland personality, and the PlayerCharacter of ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' is just an insert for the player to be a Master. Meanwhile Sieg's "blandness" come from being a Homunculus, which justifies his personality at first, but his overall CharacterDevelopment is simply learning what it means to life, which isn't a very original idea and it leaves him having nothing to flesh out as the story goes on. As a result, while Sieg starts off as "bland" as the other ''Fate" protagonists, he lacks any HiddenDepths that make his character feel unique.

to:

** The majority of the criticisms towards Sieg are an extension of criticisms that most Nasuverse main characters are criticized for as well[[note]]Namely they are seen as boring, having no personality, overpowered for no reason, and often seen as being idiotically reckless[[/note]]. However, at least ''Fate'' wise, [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou Emiya]] has a lot of HiddenDepths that make him an extremely complex character that gets expanded by three unique story routes, the main character of ''VideoGame/FateEXTRA''[[note]]Hakuno Kishinami[[/note]] is a PlayerCharacter who is revealed to be an NPC based off a person killed in the real world, thus justifying their somewhat bland personality, and the PlayerCharacter of ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' is just an insert for the player to be a Master. Meanwhile Sieg's "blandness" come from being a Homunculus, which justifies his personality at first, but his overall CharacterDevelopment is simply learning what it means to life, live, which isn't a very original idea and character arc since it was already used in the ''Unlimited Blade Works'' route in the original ''Fate''. Due to this, Sieg's character can only rely on his ShipTease with Ruler, which leaves him having nothing to flesh out as the story goes on. As a result, while Sieg starts off as "bland" as the other ''Fate" protagonists, he lacks any HiddenDepths that make his character feel unique.
19th Oct '17 1:08:00 PM keyblade333
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** The majority of the criticisms towards Sieg are an extension of criticisms that most Nasuverse main characters are criticized for as well[[note]]Namely they are seen as boring, having no personality, overpowered for no reason, and often seen as being idiotically reckless[[/note]]. However, at least ''Fate'' wise, [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou Emiya]] has a lot of HiddenDepths that make him an extremely complex character that gets expanded by three unique story routes, the main character of ''VideoGame/FateEXTRA''[[note]]Hakuno Kishinami[[/note]] is a PlayerCharacter who is revealed to be an NPC based off a person killed in the real world, thus justifying their somewhat bland personality, and the PlayerCharacter of ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' is just an insert for the player to be a Master. Meanwhile Sieg's "blandness" come from being a Homunculus, which justifies his personality at first, but his overall CharacterDevelopment is simply learning what it means to life, which isn't a very original idea and it leaves him having nothing to flesh out as the story goes on. As a result, while Sieg starts off as "bland" as the other ''Fate" protagonists, he lacks any HiddenDepths that make his character feel unique.
18th Oct '17 5:58:38 AM 00Altair
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''. It says something when she's killed off by Mordred that absolutely none of the remaining Yggdmillenia members bat an eye when they learn of it.
%%* CrazyAwesome: Shakespeare is a walking talking pile of this.


Added DiffLines:

* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''. It says something when she's killed off by Mordred that absolutely none of the remaining Yggdmillenia members bat an eye when they learn of it.
11th Oct '17 5:57:46 PM Prometheus117
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In the very next episode, Avicebron/Caster of Black crossed it by [[spoiler:sacrificing his own Master Roche to complete his Golem, despite his screams of anguish of being betrayed by his own Servant/professor, which subverts his reasoning to the Red Faction about defecting to them as long as his Master is unharmed, because he'll be the one who does the 'harming' ''personally'', for his own goal of recreating Paradise since he dislikes mankind, and in his own words, it has nothing to do with the Holy Grail at all so all along, he's on neither side.]] He seals it with his own words, "You have every rights to hate me.", and now you see why the normally affable professor is amongst the more amoral characters in both factions.

to:

** In the very next episode, Avicebron/Caster of Black crossed it by [[spoiler:sacrificing his own Master Roche to complete his Golem, despite his screams of anguish of being betrayed by his own Servant/professor, which subverts his reasoning to the Red Faction about defecting to them as long as his Master is unharmed, because he'll be the one who does the 'harming' ''personally'', for his own goal of recreating Paradise since he dislikes mankind, and in his own words, it has nothing to do with the Holy Grail at all so all along, he's on neither side.]] He seals it with his own words, "You have every rights right to hate me.", and now you see why the normally affable professor is amongst the more amoral characters in both factions.
11th Oct '17 7:26:15 AM ChrisX
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In the very next episode, Avicebron/Caster of Black crossed it by [[spoiler:sacrificing his own Master Roche to complete his Golem, despite his screams of anguish of being betrayed by his own Servant/professor, which subverts his reasoning to the Red Faction about defecting to them as long as his Master is unharmed, because he'll be the one who does the 'harming' ''personally'', for his own goal of recreating Paradise since he dislikes mankind.]] He seals it with his own words, "You have every rights to hate me.", and now you see why the normally affable professor is amongst the more amoral characters in both factions.

to:

** In the very next episode, Avicebron/Caster of Black crossed it by [[spoiler:sacrificing his own Master Roche to complete his Golem, despite his screams of anguish of being betrayed by his own Servant/professor, which subverts his reasoning to the Red Faction about defecting to them as long as his Master is unharmed, because he'll be the one who does the 'harming' ''personally'', for his own goal of recreating Paradise since he dislikes mankind.mankind, and in his own words, it has nothing to do with the Holy Grail at all so all along, he's on neither side.]] He seals it with his own words, "You have every rights to hate me.", and now you see why the normally affable professor is amongst the more amoral characters in both factions.
11th Oct '17 7:11:26 AM ChrisX
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** In the very next episode, Avicebron/Caster of Black crossed it by [[spoiler:sacrificing his own Master Roche to complete his Golem, despite his screams of anguish of being betrayed by his own Servant/professor, which subverts his reasoning to the Red Faction about defecting to them as long as his Master is unharmed, because he'll be the one who does the 'harming' ''personally'', for his own goal of recreating Paradise since he dislikes mankind.]] He seals it with his own words, "You have every rights to hate me.", and now you see why the normally affable professor is amongst the more amoral characters in both factions.
10th Oct '17 11:04:06 AM urutapu
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Celenike crosses it as well. [[spoiler: While in the midst of a VillainousBreakdown, she uses her Command Spells to force Astolfo, her Servant, into killing Sieg. Her reason? Astolfo was getting too attached to the homunculus he saved, and she intended to [[KickTheDog make him drown despair]] him by making him break his code of honor by forcing him to murder an innocent person. She only saw Astolfo as her familiar, meaning in her mind, she owned him and can do what she wants with him, even [[BreakTheCutie break him mentally]]. For that matter, having a master like Celenike is any good natured and honorable Servant's worst nightmare.]]

to:

** Celenike crosses it as well. [[spoiler: While in the midst of a VillainousBreakdown, she uses her Command Spells to force Astolfo, her Servant, into killing Sieg. Her reason? Astolfo was getting too attached to the homunculus he saved, and she intended to [[KickTheDog make him drown in despair]] him by making him break his code of honor by forcing him to murder an innocent person. She only saw Astolfo as her familiar, meaning in her mind, she owned him and can do what she wants with him, even [[BreakTheCutie break him mentally]]. For that matter, having a master like Celenike is any good natured and honorable Servant's worst nightmare.]]



** Astolfo becomes this when his master, Celenike, uses her Command Spells to force him to almost kill Sieg, who he had formed a close bond with. Killing Sieg would have gone against everything Astolfo stood for, and Celenike knows that and wants her Servant to break and fall into despair, which Astolfo almost did had Mordred not stepped in and sliced the bitch's head off.

to:

** Astolfo becomes this when his master, Celenike, uses her Command Spells to force him to almost kill Sieg, who he had formed a close bond with. Killing his friend Sieg would have gone against everything Astolfo stood for, in an attempt break his spirit and sully his honor. Mordred killing Celenike knows is the only thing that and wants her Servant to break and fall into despair, which saves Astolfo almost did had Mordred not stepped in and sliced the bitch's head off.from this trauma.
10th Oct '17 3:28:11 AM Supreme-X15
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Celenike crosses it as well. [[spoiler: While in the midst of a VillainousBreakdown, she uses her Command Spells to force Astolfo, her Servant, into killing Sieg. Her reason? Astolfo was getting too attached to the homunculus he saved, and she intended to [[KickTheDog make him drown despair]] him by making him break his code of honor by forcing him to murder an innocent person. She only saw Astolfo as her familiar, meaning in her mind, she owned him and can do what she wants with him, even [[BreakTheCutie break him mentally]]. For that matter, having a master like Celenike is any good natured and honorable Servant's worst nightmare.]]



** Astolfo becomes this when his master, Celenike, uses her Command Spells to force him to almost kill Sieg, who he had formed a close bond with. Killing Sieg would have gone against everything Astolfo stood, and Celenike knows that. For that matter, having a master like Celenike is any Servant's worst nightmare.

to:

** Astolfo becomes this when his master, Celenike, uses her Command Spells to force him to almost kill Sieg, who he had formed a close bond with. Killing Sieg would have gone against everything Astolfo stood, stood for, and Celenike knows that. For that matter, having a master like Celenike is any Servant's worst nightmare.and wants her Servant to break and fall into despair, which Astolfo almost did had Mordred not stepped in and sliced the bitch's head off.
** After her DarkAndTroubledPast, Frankenstein certainly counts as this.
9th Oct '17 6:07:49 PM Prometheus117
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''. It says something when she's killed off by Mordred that absolutely none of the remaining Yggdmillenia members bat an eye when they learn of it.
9th Oct '17 5:26:31 PM n3xus
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[CrazyJealousGirl Icecolle]] [[HotWitch Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[BitchInSheepsClothing Celenike]] [[CrazyJealousGirl [[HotWitch Icecolle]] [[HotWitch [[HateSink Yggdmillenia]], amongst the [[WellIntentionedExtremist morally ambiguous Yggdmillenia family]], is [[WickedWitch the only one who absolutely has no moral compass]]. A {{sadist}}ic dominatrix, she owns a dungeon where she tortures those who cross her--mainly "worthless" homunculi and, after she becomes his Master, Astolfo. After getting jealous that he is forming a bond with Sieg, one of those worthless homunculi, Celenike completely snaps and rants that Astolfo exists only to obey her as a literal servant. She then wastes all her Command Spells to order Astolfo to gruesomely murder Sieg just to break Astolfo. Unlike her other family members and many other antagonists from the series, Celenike's only motivation for this behavior appears to be selfish, undirected sadism, making her one of the vilest characters in ''Fate''.
This list shows the last 10 events of 220. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.FateApocrypha