History YMMV / BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns

** Jason Todd was a good soldier. He honored Bruce.... but the war goes on. Somewhat averted in the sense that it's implied his death caused Bruce to stop being Batman for decades.

* HypeBacklash: It's very influential and popular comic that is still widely praised for its influence today and is considered one of the, if not ''the'' most iconic Batman story, naturally there are people who are turned off by the praise it receive and don't think the comic it's that good.

** This story also serves of the origin of the infamous [[PopularityPower Prep]] [[MisaimedFandom Time]] argument, with many Batman fanboys claiming because Batman beat Superman in this storyline, he can theoretically beat anyone. It also set the tone for all future Batman vs. Superman fights as "Batman beats up Superman and wins while insulting him" which, while shocking and effective when used for the first time here, became less accepting the more it was repeated.

** ''"Dick called it the Batmobile"''. Then [[ComicBook/AllstarBatmanAndRobinTheBoyWonder a glimpes into their past]] reveals that it was Batman's idea to call his car the batmobile. Rather than creating continuity problems, it manages to show that the Goddamn Batman is the same petulant manchild he's always been.

* OutOfTheGhetto: With partial assist from ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'', Frank Miller's comic did this for Batman. Before Miller, Batman was remembered for the campy 60s TV-Show and his comics was in a period of weak sales. Miller's revision of Batman was actually the crest of an ongoing wave[[note]]before him Dennis O'Neil, Steven Engelhart and Neal Adams brought back some of the darkness to the character[[/note]] but his story, as Miller is fond of saying, "Gave Batman his balls back", redefined Batman by updating him to a modern setting of urban decay, teen gangs and vigilantism, and also giving Batman a FilmNoir flavoring, paving the way for the Creator/TimBurton films, the Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse, ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy'', the ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries'' and the Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse.

** The book also plays a bit with the canon characterization of Harvey Dent, implying the unscarred side is actually his dark side.

** At the time, Miller's decision to focus on the tension between Batman and Joker was considered a novel take on both characters' psyches. By the time of ''ComicBook/TheDarkKnightStrikesAgain'', when [[spoiler:Dick Grayson]] is the new Joker specifically becomes so because Batman rejected his sexual advances, it comes off more as Creator/FrankMiller having personal issues with homosexuals.

* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: Parents would have learned from ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' and the ''[[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum Arkham]]'' [[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity games]] that just because it's ''Franchise/{{Batman}}'' it's not exactly suitable for children. The two part movie is in the running for the most graphic portrayal yet, at times even going further than the original comic. It's also muddled by the fact the films are rated PG-13 -- the same as ultra-campy ''Film/BatmanAndRobin''!-- despite enough rampant violence and bloodshed to qualify for an R, especially during the Joker chapter. Confusingly, HBO Family's descriptors tag the movie with "mild violence", and the violence in the films are most certainly anything but.

* OneSceneWonder: The tech in the space station, who appears for a grand total of ''ten'' panels, and in doing so gives important exposition regarding the Coldbringer nuke that wipes out power on the Eastern Seaboard and prompts the plot of the final act, is used to demonstrate the apathy of the news media on "technical details" and also delivers arguably the most poignant lines regarding nuclear fears of the era.
-->'''Dan''': Still, my last thoughts will be a prayer for you, for humanity...and for the planet Earth. Nothing could stop the Russians from emptying their silos at us now. We'd have no defense, no way to retaliate. '''The one hope we have is that the decision to murder billions has to be made by a human being.''' (emphasis added)
* OutOfTheGhetto: With partial assist from ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'', Frank Miller's comic did this for Batman. Before Miller, Batman was remembered for the campy 60s TV-Show and his comics was in a period of weak sales. Miller's revision of Batman was actually the crest of an ongoing wave[[note]]before him Dennis O'Neil, Steven Engelhart and Neal Adams brought back some of the darkness to the character[[/note]] but his story, as Miller is fond of saying, "Gave Batman his balls back", redefined Batman by updating him to a modern setting of urban decay, teen gangs and vigilantism, and also giving Batman a FilmNoir flavoring, paving the way for the Creator/TimBurton films, the Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse, ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy'', the ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries'' and the Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse.
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny:

** The fanbase likes to debate over whether or not the edit to the hostage scene was justifiable (edited to where Batman disarms his opponent as opposed to shooting her in the shoulder [[note]]WordOfGod stated Batman didn't kill that Mutant in the comic despite being [[OnlyAFleshWound a shoulder shot with a really big gun]][[/note]]). Supporters argue that it 'fixes' Batman's character, detractors argue that it [[{{Bowdlerise}} bowdlerizes the scene]], doesn't fit Frank Miller's [[AntiHero characterization]] of [[SociopathicHero Batman]] and dilutes the effectiveness of his BondOneLiner.

** The Joker's psychiatrist is portrayed as delusional and the film implies he is at least partially responsible for Joker's massacre. While he may be naive, it is hard to fault the Doctor for attempting to reach Joker and help him deal with his psychosis (You know, that thing psychiatrists working with the criminally insane are supposed to work towards).

* CompleteMonster: The [[AsskickingLeadsToLeadership Mutant Leader]] is a vicious gang boss who uses his "mutants" to terrorize Gotham City [[ForTheEvulz for the sheer sake of violence]]. Having his mutant gang commit all sorts of massacres, slayings, and crimes across Gotham, the Mutant Leader eventually has his men begin kidnapping young children for ransom, then brutally [[WouldHurtAChild murder the kids]] even when the ransoms are paid. The Mutant Leader's ultimate plan is to march on Gotham and kill countless people in a quest to [[OffWithHisHead decapitate]] Commissioner James Gordon and [[DecapitationPresentation parade his head through the streets]]. When captured by Batman, the Leader responds by ordering his mutants to raze the entirety of Gotham to the ground while he personally tears out the throat of the city's mayor when he tries to negotiate peace talks with the Leader.

* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker is a psychotic murderer responsible for deaths of hundreds, including Dick Grayson's parents and Jason Todd. Beginning his criminal spree with trying to [[TamperingWithFoodAndDrink poison Gotham's water supply]], the Joker continues causing chaos and destruction in Gotham by having his gang commit crimes for fun. Setting up a trap for Jason Todd, Joker manipulates several inmates in Arkham Asylum to mutilate themselves, before starting a riot, killing countless guards before escaping. After having gone into unresponsive catatonia for a decade due to Batman retiring, the Joker returns to his old habits after the return of Batman to Gotham. The Joker marks his return by [[DeadlyGas fatally gassing]] an entire talk show audience with his Joker toxins, causing them to die a slow death as they [[DieLaughing laugh themselves to death]]. To goad Batman into coming after him, the Joker [[WouldHurtAChild sells poisoned cotton candy to dozens of children]], which resulted in all of them quickly dying. After Batman started chasing him, the Joker shoots randomly many innocent people and when Batman snapped his neck thus paralyzing him, the Joker [[SpitefulSuicide defiantly snaps his own neck]] the rest of the way anyways and dies with a wide smile on his face, intending to [[ThanatosGambit frame Batman for his own death]], proclaiming he'll [[SeeYouInHell meet Batman in Hell]].

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite Carrie Kelley not having a large role in this comic beyond being Batman's sidekick and being far less prominent in the ''Batman'' franchise compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim, she is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights due to being the first female Robin (and until Stephanie Brown briefly took up the tights during the main comics, only female Robin), her PluckyGirl attitude, and her genuinely heartwarming bond with Bruce. Unsurprisingly, as a result of her popularity, she would finally (albeit briefly) make her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52'' as one of Tim Drake's friends (albeit not as Robin, outside of a brief MythologyGag where she dons the Robin costume during a Halloween party in one issue).[[note]]However, this did not last and she would only appear in three issues before [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse never appearing again]]. According to interviews, this is reportedly thanks to Frank Miller himself, who is highly protective of the character and [[DisownedAdaptation hated her inclusion in the mainline comics]], to the point of making DC [[ExiledFromContinuity ban her from appearing in anything outside of his work]].[[/note]].

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite Carrie Kelley not having a large role in this comic beyond being Batman's sidekick and being far less prominent in the ''Batman'' franchise compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim, she is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights due to being the first female Robin (and until Stephanie Brown briefly took up the tights during the main comics, only female Robin), her PluckyGirl attitude, and her genuinely heartwarming bond with Bruce. Unsurprisingly, as a result of her popularity, she would finally (albeit briefly) make her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52'' as one of Tim Drake's friends (albeit not as Robin, outside of a brief MythologyGag where she dons the Robin costume during a Halloween party in one issue).[[note]]However, this did not last and she would only appear in three issues before [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse never appearing again]]. According to interviews, this is reportedly thanks to Frank Miller himself, who is highly protective of the character and hates the idea of her being handled by different writers, to the point of making DC [[ExiledFromContinuity ban her from appearing in anything outside of his work]].[[/note]].

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite Carrie Kelley not having a large role in this comic beyond being Batman's sidekick and being far less prominent in the ''Batman'' franchise compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim, she is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights due to being the first female Robin (and until Stephanie Brown briefly took up the tights during the main comics, only female Robin), her PluckyGirl attitude, and her genuinely heartwarming bond with Bruce. Unsurprisingly, as a result of her popularity, she would finally (albeit briefly) make her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52'' as one of Tim Drake's friends (albeit not as Robin, outside of a brief MythologyGag where she dons the Robin costume during a Halloween party in one issue).[[note]]However, this did not last and she would only appear in three issues before [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse never appearing again]]. According to interviews, this is largely thanks to Frank Miller himself, who is highly possessive of the character and hates the idea of her being handled by different writers, to the point of making DC [[ExiledFromContinuity effectively ban her from appearing in anything outside of his work]][[/note]].

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite Carrie Kelley not having a large role in this comic beyond being Batman's sidekick and being far less prominent in the ''Batman'' franchise compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim, she is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights due to being the first female Robin (and until Stephanie Brown briefly took up the tights during the main comics, only female Robin), her PluckyGirl attitude, and her genuinely heartwarming bond with Bruce. Unsurprisingly, as a result of her popularity, she would finally make her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52'' as one of Tim Drake's friends (albeit not as Robin, outside of a brief MythologyGag where she dons the Robin costume during a Halloween party in one issue).

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite Carrie Keleely not having a large role in this comic beyond being Batman's sidekick and being far less prominent in the ''Batman'' franchise compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim, she is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights due to being the first female Robin (and until Stephanie Brown briefly took up the tights during the main comics, only female Robin), her PluckyGirl attitude, and her genuinely heartwarming bond with Bruce. Unsurprisingly, as a result of her popularity, she would finally make her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52'' as one of Tim Drake's friends (albeit not as Robin, outside of a brief MythologyGag where she dons the Robin costume during a Halloween party in one issue).

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Carrie Kelley is one of the most beloved Robins to ever take up the tights, finally making her way to the main DC Universe with the ''ComicBook/New52.''

* MagnificentBastard: [[Characters/BatmanThecharacter Batman]] himself, having long retired from crimefighting, returns to put Gotham back in its place. He defeats the mutant leader terrorizing the city by fighting the leader in a mud pit, the mud slows the leader, removing his physical advantage, and Batman overpowers him. When ComicBook/TheJoker comes back due to his return he intends to kill him and nearly does, only being stopped when the Joker kills himself first. He single handily brings order to Gotham by reuniting all the gangs to the point the government brings Franchise/{{Superman}} to stop him since "he's making the government look bad." He brutally beats up Superman during their fight even though Superman didn't want to fight him and even uses that fact to his full advantage, even using their battle to fake his own death and continue fighting crime more secretly.

** The breakage got even wider on the release of the second part. Opinions go from EvenBetterSequel, okay, inferior, to a horrible film compared to the first part. And let's not get the flak it gets for how Franchise/{{Superman}} is portrayed, as well as the Cold War era propaganda and UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan's portrayal. To be fair, and as defenders have pointed out, all of that [[OlderThanTheyThink is the book too]] (which [[UnintentionalPeriodPiece came out in the 1980s]]), so it's not entirely the film's fault, however, some have argued the film could've modernize the story and fix its problematic and outdated elements instead of keeping them for the sake of being faithful. This has died down after the ''Deluxe'' recut (which combine both parts into one film) came out, with many in agreement that the second part works better when viewed as part of one big film rather than as a separate film.

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: While the film is regarded as one of DC's better {{animated adaptation}}s, the change to the end of Batman and Two Face's confrontation from the comic (having Batman stand there instead of hugging him like in the original) has been poorly received from fans. Especially since it removes one of the comic's more poignant moments.

** The breakage got even wider on the release of the second part. Opinions go from EvenBetterSequel, okay, inferior, to a horrible film compared to the first part. And let's not get the flak it gets for how Franchise/{{Superman}} is portrayed, as well as the Cold War era propaganda and UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan's portrayal. To be fair, all of that [[OlderThanTheyThink is in the book]] (which [[UnintentionalPeriodPiece came out in the 1980s]]), so it's not entirely the film's fault, but that hasn't stopped many from giving it flak for keeping that stuff in, arguing the film could've modernize the story and fix its problematic elements instead of being faithful to the book word-to-word. This has died down after the ''Deluxe'' recut (combining both part) came out, with many in agreement that the second part works better when viewed as part of one big film rather than as a separate film.

** The breakage got even wider on the release of the second part. Opinions go from EvenBetterSequel, okay, inferior, to a horrible film compared to the first part. And let's not get the flak it gets for how Franchise/{{Superman}} is portrayed, as well as the Cold War era propaganda and UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan's portrayal.

For the film, go [[YMMV/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns2012 here]].
----

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:From the Comic]]

[[/folder]]

[[folder:From the Film]]
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The soundtrack is ''epic''. For example, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPWDnhffkLQ this is the music that plays on the first night that Batman returns after a decade of absence.]]
* BrokenBase:
** The fanbase likes to debate over whether or not the edit to the hostage scene was justifiable (edited to where Batman disarms his opponent as opposed to shooting her in the shoulder [[note]]WordOfGod stated Batman didn't kill that Mutant in the comic despite being [[OnlyAFleshWound a shoulder shot with a really big gun]][[/note]]). Supporters argue that it 'fixes' Batman's character, detractors argue that it [[{{Bowdlerise}} bowdlerizes the scene]], doesn't fit Frank Miller's [[AntiHero characterization]] of [[SociopathicHero Batman]] and dilutes the effectiveness of his BondOneLiner.
** The breakage got even wider on the release of the second part. Opinions go from EvenBetterSequel, okay, inferior, to a horrible film compared to the first part. And let's not get the flak it gets for how Franchise/{{Superman}} is portrayed, as well as the Cold War era propaganda and UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan's portrayal.
* CompleteMonster: The [[AsskickingLeadsToLeadership Mutant Leader]] is a vicious gang boss who uses his "mutants" to terrorize Gotham City [[ForTheEvulz for the sheer sake of violence]]. Having his mutant gang commit all sorts of massacres, slayings, and crimes across Gotham, the Mutant Leader eventually has his men begin kidnapping young children for ransom, then brutally [[WouldHurtAChild murder the kids]] even when the ransoms are paid. The Mutant Leader's ultimate plan is to march on Gotham and kill countless people in a quest to [[OffWithHisHead decapitate]] Commissioner James Gordon and [[DecapitationPresentation parade his head through the streets]]. When captured by Batman, the Leader responds by ordering his mutants to raze the entirety of Gotham to the ground while he personally tears out the throat of the city's mayor when he tries to negotiate peace talks with the Leader.
* HarsherInHindsight: The film expands on Joker's shooting spree in the Tunnel of Love which can be very, ''very'' unsettling in the wake of the Aurora shooting (which was done at the screening of ''another'' Batman movie with the initials "[[Film/TheDarkKnightRises TDKR]]".
* HilariousInHindsight: Creator/RobinAtkinDownes voices a one-armed RetiredBadass who later becomes the protagonist's second in command when he tries to forge an army out of society's outcasts. Are we talking about Oliver Queen or [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolidVThePhantomPain Kazuhira Miller]]?
* MagnificentBastard: [[Characters/BatmanThecharacter Batman]] himself, having long retired from crimefighting, returns to put Gotham back in its place. He defeats the mutant leader terrorizing the city by fighting the leader in a mud pit, the mud slows the leader, removing his physical advantage, and Batman overpowers him. When ComicBook/TheJoker comes back due to his return he intends to kill him and nearly does, only being stopped when the Joker kills himself first. He single handily brings order to Gotham by reuniting all the gangs to the point the government brings Franchise/{{Superman}} to stop him since "he's making the government look bad." He brutally beats up Superman during their fight even though Superman didn't want to fight him and even uses that fact to his full advantage, even using their battle to fake his own death and continue fighting crime more secretly.
* MemeticMutation: Carrie looking like VideoGame/ShovelKnight when [[spoiler:Superman notices her holding a shovel under a cloak at the funeral]].
* MoralEventHorizon: In-universe, this happens when the mutants murdered a kidnapped child.
* {{Narm}}:
** Sure, he's a blind government lackey to an idiot president, but did Superman really have to show up in an [[http://i.imgur.com/YWypgHF.jpg outfit straight from a bad supermarket romance novel and have an eagle just coincidentally perch on his arm?]]
*** Not helping matters is that the above linked pose makes him look like [[Series/TheColbertReport Stephen Colbert]].
** "Slice and dice!" Maybe it could have worked once or twice, but when every single Mutant says it, you've got a problem.
** Batman, disguised as an old woman, stops two former Mutants from robbing a liquor store, but has to chase after their leader. The liquor store owner puts a gun to the head of one Mutant, prompting Batman -- still disguised as an old woman -- to say "Pull that trigger, and I'll be coming back for you"... using his normal voice.
* {{Squick}}: At one point when Batman is "dealing" with a crook you can hear the guy's bones cracking and grinding.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: Parents would have learned from ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' and the ''[[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum Arkham]]'' [[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity games]] that just because it's ''Franchise/{{Batman}}'' it's not exactly suitable for children. The two part movie is in the running for the most graphic portrayal yet, at times even going further than the original comic. It's also muddled by the fact the films are rated PG-13 -- the same as ultra-campy ''Film/BatmanAndRobin''!-- despite enough rampant violence and bloodshed to qualify for an R, especially during the Joker chapter. Confusingly, HBO Family's descriptors tag the movie with "mild violence", and the violence in the films are most certainly anything but.
[[/folder]]

* OutOfTheGhetto: With partial assist from ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'', Frank Miller's comic did this for Batman. Before Miller, Batman was remembered for the campy 60s TV-Show and his comics was in a period of weak sales. Miller's revision of Batman was actually the crest of an ongoing wave[[note]]before him Dennis O'Neil, Steven Engelhart and Neal Adams brought back some of the darkness to the character[[/note]] but his story, as Miller is fond of saying, "Gave Batman his balls back", redefined Batman by updating him to a modern setting of urban decay, teen gangs and vigilantism, and also giving Batman a FilmNoir flavoring, paving the way for the Creator/TimBurton films, the Franchise/{{DCAU}}, ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy'', the ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries'' and the Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse.

* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker is a psychotic murderer responsible for deaths of hundreds, including Dick Grayson's parents and Jason Todd. Beginning his criminal spree with trying to [[TamperingWithFoodAndDrink poison Gotham's water supply]], the Joker continues causing chaos and destruction in Gotham by having his gang commit crimes for fun. Setting up a trap for Jason Todd, Joker manipulates several inmates in Arkham Asylum to mutilate themselves, before starting a riot, killing countless guards before escaping. After having gone into unresponsive catatonia for a decade due to Batman retiring, the Joker returns to his old habits after the return of Batman to Gotham. The Joker marks his return by [[DeadlyGas fatally gassing]] the entirety of a talk show audience with his Joker toxins, causing them to die a slow death as they [[DieLaughing laugh themselves to death]]. To goad Batman into coming after him, the Joker [[WouldHurtAChild sells poisoned cotton candy to dozens of children]], which resulted in all of them quickly dying. After Batman started chasing him, the Joker shoots randomly many innocent people and when Batman snapped his neck thus paralyzing him, the Joker [[SpitefulSuicide defiantly snaps his own neck]] the rest of the way anyways and dies with a wide smile on his face, intending to [[ThanatosGambit frame Batman for his own death]], proclaiming he'll [[SeeYouInHell meet Batman in Hell]].

*** More specifically, many have wondered if this series paints Batman as a fascist, pointing to a few lines of dialogue such as saying he sometimes counts all the rights criminals have "to make himself feel crazy" and telling Superman "the world only makes sense if you force it to." These lines, along with the increasingly strong militant bent to his mission and the fact that he responds to the Coldbringer blackout by essentially ''taking over Gotham'' start to paint Bruce as a right wing fanatic who treasures punishing criminals and asserting his will over Gotham rather than upholding civil rights or actually directly saving anyone not being afflicted by a violent criminal.

** ''The Dark Knight Returns'' and ''The Dark Knight Strikes Again'' presents Batman as a dangerously obsessed, deeply disturbed, paranoid {{control freak}} who is possibly a mentally ill SociopathicHero as opposed to the stalwart Caped Crusader of the Golden and Silver ages and the Adam West series. This interpretation is touched on DependingOnTheWriter and sometimes it is the basis for whole story arcs.

* AudienceColoringAdaptation: The story is not part of the main DCU, but as Creator/AlanMoore noted, it was so good and compelling, that it has influenced the Batman mythos ever since it came out. Many fans like to think that Batman can beat Superman just because of this alternate universe story even if that's not really what the fight is about. The comic has more or less codified a set of tropes that seeped into everything: Batman as an obsessed TragicHero whose mission will alienate him from his friends, partners and loved ones, whose brand of justice would be, and ''should be'', viewed with suspicion by society, and that he and Superman inherently disagree with each other, and will never be more than VitriolicBestBuds, or as close as they were in the Silver Age.

** Jason Todd was a good soldier. He honored Bruce.... but the war goes on.

* CompleteMonster: The [[AsskickingEqualsAuthority Mutant Leader]] is a vicious gang boss who uses his "mutants" to terrorize Gotham City [[ForTheEvulz for the sheer sake of violence]]. Having his mutant gang commit all sorts of massacres, slayings, and crimes across Gotham, the Mutant Leader eventually has his men begin kidnapping young children for ransom, then brutally [[WouldHurtAChild murder the kids]] even when the ransoms are paid. The Mutant Leader's ultimate plan is to march on Gotham and kill countless people in a quest to [[OffWithHisHead decapitate]] Commissioner James Gordon and [[DecapitationPresentation parade his head through the streets]]. When captured by Batman, the Leader responds by ordering his mutants to raze the entirety of Gotham to the ground while he personally tears out the throat of the city's mayor when he tries to negotiate peace talks with the Leader.

* FirstInstallmentWins: The story has had three followups and two prequels as of this writing. Only ''Batman: Year One'' is considered even close to the quality and memorability of this one, which was an outright game-changer for comics as a medium.