History WMG / Tsukihime

--->"Hisui and Kohaku belong to a branch family of the [[LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners Fujou]] that fell into ruin after the pair's mother broke one of clan's taboos, which is why the two girls ended being picked up by Tohno Makihisa."

*** The ghost-girl from the first ''LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners'' movie?? Compared to Tohno, maybe, but the Nanayas are the Archers of Tsukihime (made powerful purely on effort).
*** They were [[BadassNormal badass normals]], to be sure. I was referring to using innate talent and powers rather than magic...then the irony of calling a magic-using family "normal" struck me.

*** While its possible Kohaku could have drugged Shiki the one day she had access to him on near side routes, its pretty doubtful, especially when you actually pay attention to what she says in Hisui's and her own routes about how she somewhat hoped he would figure out who she was. Two, shes not psychotic in the way your describing. She does what she does because she thinks she should...because thats how any person with an actual sense of self or emotions would act. She wouldn't enjoy torturing Akiha by making Shiki suffer because she doesn't actually enjoy ANYTHING (At least she doesn't think she does). Also while she knows she was (was being a key word) angry at Shiki for breaking her doll facade as a child she doesn't consider him an actual target for revenge, hes either a casualty or a tool towards her killing Makihisa, SHIKI, and Akiha, hence why shes fine with him surviving Hisui's true ending.

** Shinji used no magic. He used a tome to create an effect. Think Caster's book in LightNovel/FateZero or the Jewel Sword. a limited magical artifact designed to produce an effect beyond the capabilities of what you're normally capable of.

The list of Dead Apostles is COMPLETELY messed up. It has vampires that are dead, [[Main/SealedEvilInACan sealed]], [[Main/HeelFaceTurn working for the church]], or not even vampires at all. There's a simple explanation for all this: The list is fake, perpetuated by the vampires in power so they can hide their identities. The misinformation is such that even other vampires believe this false information, the better to sow confusion among the Church.

Of course, it's possible that the Church [[Main/IKnowYouKnowIKnow also knows this]] and is just letting the vampires believe it's working.
* There's a simpler explanation: [[Main/HanlonsRazor Hanlon's Razor]]. The list originally comprised the Dead Apostles who first broke away from the True Ancestors. The only major criteria for getting on the list are sucking blood and killing the one before you. This gives marvelous opportunities for laziness (see: ORT). Enhance is the only real exception, taken off the list for his goals. (Zelretch and Merem Solomon are still there, despite their [[Main/HeelFaceTurn good intentions]], because they're the originals.) Besides, "The 27 Ancestors of the Dead Apostles" sounds more poetic than "The 27 Most Scary as All Fuck, We're Not Even Kidding, Beings in the World."

* See above for Satsuki. This was argued on Beasts Lair for a while; the conclusion was that Akiha doesn't stand much of a chance against the DAAs as she is now. For one thing, she is horrible in a fight (Nanaya notes this in Kohaku's route); for another (the main reason), her power is most effective against humans and similar beings - and even then, people with strong magic capacities (see: a ''lot'' of DAAs) have more protection against nonphysical attacks, so it would be buffered. Overall, she could probably cause ''some'' damage to the DAAs (Arcueid would be more annoyed by it, but then again, this is showing how naturally powerful Akiha is), who would then destroy her (they can reform themselves and have been hunted by the church's top assassins for centuries). SHIKI was an exception, as he was based more on his hybrid side than Roa's DAA capacity in those routes. Now, if she gets more powerful and learns how to fight as she gets older.... definite potential there.

[[WMG: Zelretch will eventually engineer a meeting between the cast of Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night]]

He's Arcueid's godfather in Tsukihime, and he's proven to still pay attention to the Tohsaka in the Heaven's Feel Route of Fate/Stay Night. If anyone is able to engineer a meeting between the two groups, it's him.

*** Let's not forget about the obvious [[{{Yandere}} Kohaku/Sakura team-up]]. Add Fujino from ''Kara no Kyoukai'' and you may have a force that could TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

*** Actually the Tsukihime crew would have a huge issue to overcome, which is range. Shiki's Nanaya side doesn't actually increase his speed beyond that of a human, which means hes still too slow to fight a servant. Throw in the fact that hes using the shortest range weapon imaginable and would die from being hit from even a single strike by most servants and hes in an awful spot.

** If VideoGame/MeltyBlood is right, then she [[spoiler:very depressingly has to be killed by Shiki in one of her endings, and in the other (going from [=ReAct=]'s storyline) he seems to have a lasting relationship with everybody (more so than the Ciel ending) while she lurks in the distance]]. I ''really'' want to know what they do with her route, since as of now it seems like they've written themselves into a corner with the other works.

They are different from the ones of the Shiki of ''LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners'' and SHIKI says in Drinking Dreaming Moon that he can't see the lines because of the eyes but because he understands death well, using the fact he is talking with him and that he can see Akiha's hair as proofs. In fact, he actually says Shiki's eyes AREN'T of Death Perception.

*** Um...Satsuki ''is'' dead. She explicitly and visibly dies in three game routes, and is implied to be either dead or not-vamped in two more (it's only her own, plus Melty Blood, where she's clearly alive and a vampire). Shiki's Pure Eyes are canon, as the retconned explanation for why he can see Akiha's hair, and as a partial explanation for his Mystic Eyes. He's actually little different from Ryougi, in that sense; Nanaya got the Eyes of Death Perception after a near-death experience revealed the lines to his "seeing hidden things" power, Ryougi got hers due to her ability to see the Akashic Record and the near-death experience that killed [[spoiler:her male personality]]. Also, I'm pretty sure Drinking, Dreaming Moon ''was'' written by Nasu. It was just the last three Nights of Dream that were ascended fanfiction.

[[WMG: In Tsukihime 2, Kohaku will be Shiki's MissionControl]]
Considering her technological and medicinal skills, it's the perfect job for her. Basically she'd be [[Franchise/MetalGear Otacon]]. This assumes that she got over the madness, possibly with Len's help.

The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.

Or at least, not mostly. Look at what she's saying. 'You'll regret this' and not 'I'll make you regret this.' 'You don't even like me.' Her reaction if it's carried through is exactly the same as if you stopped, minus a bad end since optionally raping the heroine is kind of a bad message to put across (sorry Kohaku). Also, her Mystic Eyes are not like [[LightNovel/FateZero Lancer/Diarmuid's]] love spot; They do not create attraction, they influence the will and mind, which ''can'' create love/lust as seen in one bad end. And Arcueid assumes this is why Shiki is trying to have sex with her? Hmmmm...

[[WMG: Kara No Kyoukai and Tsukihime actually AREN'T alternate universes.]]

Finally, yes the odds of two people having the MEoDP are millions to one, but [[Discworld Million to one chances happen nine out of ten times.]]

* I haven't gotten far enough in ''LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners'' to learn of Touko's goal and why it contradicts the Shinsou (and so I can't argue against the WordOfGod alternate reality), but yes, different versions of people certainly exist in multiple universes. On the other hand, while the odds of two people having Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is incredibly low, the different circumstances of the Shikis doesn't really rely on those odds all that much. Ryougi's eyes are an in-born ability, that started to be expressed after her two-year long coma/exposure to death. Nanaya's eyes are a total accident; he already had the Pure Eyes ability of seeing mystical things that were otherwise unseeable, and his near-death experience caused his brain to start perceiving lines of Death. Barring some really weird chaos theory explanation, it doesn't seem like those events would necessarily interact at all, let alone counter each other to the extent of necessitating an alternate universe. Quoth [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Trillian]], it's not impossible, just very, very improbable.

Because we don't have enough silly theories. Male Ryougi Shiki wished he was a normal guy like Kokuto Mikiya, so when he died he traveled through Akasha to the Tsukihime universe. Of course, he kinda got gypped, in that Tohno Shiki ended up not being normal anyway. But at least he got a male body.

[[WMG: The remake will have satsuki's route...and [[HoYay Arihiko's route]]]]

[[WMG: Tsukihime 2 will have 5/6 editions]]
Okay, for near 99.9% of the fans, Arcueid's true ending/Good ending is the canon one, but there are fans of the other's routes. Word of god have stated that the true endings of the five routes are canon, but just alternate continuities. So, the game can continue the story of the first game's routes releasing more than one edition. Like ''Tsukihime 2: Arcueid edition'' or ''Tsukihime 2: Hiusui edition''' or ''Tsukihime 2: [[HoYay Arihiko edition]], [[{{Squick}} uncensored]]''...

** First, to sell more games. Second, i say for ''many'' fans it's the canon one(that 99% was as a joke...really).
*** That would be something not only transparently greedy and therefore pointlessly stupid, but also completely out-of-character for Type-Moon. Again, why exactly would they do something like that, rather than include "extracanonical" information in a single game...like they did with every other game they've released? It's not like they bothered going [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo the Pokemon route]] with Kagetsu Tohya, Melty Blood, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, Fate/Unlimited Codes, etc. Also, if you were talking ''fan'' considerations of canon...why would that affect what the company did? Frankly, I thought you were talking about the idea that Tsukihime 2 follows the Arcueid route because of the few short stories that have been released suggesting it.

* Aoko Aozaki's aria is called Unlimited Rotation, most of it's uses cause explosions. Do the math.

* In Melty Blood, Tatari's objective is to keep humanity from destruction by achieving the Program Number Six (or, in japanese, Dai Roku Hou), which would create such an incredible destruction that it would forever change the world.
* In Fate/EXTRA, the world has been depleted of all Mana due to a certain catastrophe in the seventies, which caused Magic to disappear. It is strongly hinted (or outright stated, I'm not really sure) that that catastrophe was the Aylesbury Valesti, the ritual with which the DAA planned to bring back de Dark Six, which would bring together all the DAA and could be considered an enormous catastrophe. Notice the similarities?
* Now, as for the Sixth Magic, that comes from a comment by Nasu himself and a linguistic fact. Dai Roku Hou is, literally, one syllabe (or a single character, in japanese) from Dai Roku Mahou. Mahou, roughly "Magic", in the Nasuverse is solely used in the context of the Five True Magics, meanwhile all else is called Majutsu, Magecraft, in English. Nasu also once commented that he was "just one character away from it", strongly hinting that, yes, he meant the Sixth Magic.
* The part about the Six Sisters from Notes is a bit more guessed up, but there is definetely a numerical relantionship to it that seems to be too big to be pure coincidence. Also, the Six Sisters were the leaders of the A-Rays, the beings that took place of Mankind once the World died. The Death of the World here may be linked to the depletion of Mana in Fate/EXTRA, given that Mana is a natural element of Gaia, thus it wouldn't be too much a stretch to think that those things are somehow related. Not only that, but The Six Sisters were also capable of great destruction, given that one of them's death cry ripped apart a whole continent and they managed to even kill an Aristotles. A last hint of connection would be that the Six Sisters aparrently were capable of using True Magic, which would connect them to the Five and, as a result, to the Sixth.

[[WMG: The Tohno bloodline suffers from a bad case of [[ComicBook/XMen mutation]]]]
It is said the members of the Tohio family with strong blood are born with special powers that differ depending on the individual, such as being resistant to death, or telekenisis, which are not too far from those with the X-Gene. It is said that mMutation is an inheritable trait after all.
* In that case Ciel might possibly be a mutant too with her Wolverine-like regeneration powers.

It is said the members of the Tohio family with strong blood are born with special powers that differ depending on the individual, such as being resistant to death, or telekenisis. Ciel might possibly be a mutant too with her Wolverine-like regeneration powers.

[[WMG: The Tohno bloodline suffers from a bad case of [[mutation ComicBook/XMen]]]]

Arcueid's looks are inspired to [[http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120411210834/typemoon/images/9/91/Arcmodel.png this picture]]. But who is this woman? None other than Arcueid herself: the events of either the Arcueid or the Ciel route actually happened, and Altrouge, out of boredom, decided to manipulate Nasu and his pals into making a game out of it, making sure they got the particulars and every single backstory right.

*** Actually the Tsukihime crew would have a huge issue to overcome, which is range. Shiki's Nanaya side doesn't actually increase his speed beyond that of a human, which means hes still too slow to fight a servant. Throw in the fact that hes using the [[KnifeNut shortest range weapon imaginable]] and would die from being hit from even a single strike by most servants and hes in an awful spot.

There are quite a few things about Mario and Laurentis that seem to be rather off. Mario being a bishop besides his apparent young age. His age actually being unknown, and him hating one of his brothers who was "born before him". Laurentis adopting multiple children who have a resemblance to him. But the thing what stands out is that Mario is trying to discover Roa's immortality research for Laurentis' sake, the guy who had figure out a form of reincarnation by {{Body Surf}}ing through targets. Suddenly the other details about the two start to fall in place: Laurentis has been trying to use his children as points of reincarnation, with the name "Bestino" indicating who is Laurentis, but hasn't figured out the way to make it last that long, with him trying to figure find Roa's research to figure out how to perfect the procress.\\\

** Ah. Still, I guess compared to the [[InTheBlood Nanaya]] or the [[HalfHumanHybrid Tohno]], the Fujou probably ''can'' be considered normal....

Meta

--->"Hisui and Kohaku belong to a branch family of the [[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai Fujou]] that fell into ruin after the pair's mother broke one of clan's taboos, which is why the two girls ended being picked up by Tohno Makihisa."

*** The ghost-girl from the first ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' movie?? Compared to Tohno, maybe, but the Nanayas are the Archers of Tsukihime (made powerful purely on effort).

They are different from the ones of the Shiki of ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' and SHIKI says in Drinking Dreaming Moon that he can't see the lines because of the eyes but because he understands death well, using the fact he is talking with him and that he can see Akiha's hair as proofs. In fact, he actually says Shiki's eyes AREN'T of Death Perception.

The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.

* I haven't gotten far enough in ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' to learn of Touko's goal and why it contradicts the Shinsou (and so I can't argue against the WordOfGod alternate reality), but yes, different versions of people certainly exist in multiple universes. On the other hand, while the odds of two people having Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is incredibly low, the different circumstances of the Shikis doesn't really rely on those odds all that much. Ryougi's eyes are an in-born ability, that started to be expressed after her two-year long coma/exposure to death. Nanaya's eyes are a total accident; he already had the Pure Eyes ability of seeing mystical things that were otherwise unseeable, and his near-death experience caused his brain to start perceiving lines of Death. Barring some really weird chaos theory explanation, it doesn't seem like those events would necessarily interact at all, let alone counter each other to the extent of necessitating an alternate universe. Quoth [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Trillian]], it's not impossible, just very, very improbable.

*** -Really-, [[CaptainObvious And do people die when they are killed too?]]

[[WMG:[[KingdomHearts Nobodies]] would be unaffected by the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.]]