History WMG / Tsukihime

24th Feb '16 11:43:31 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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[[WMG: The Fifth Magic is the manipulation of [[GurrenLagann Spiral Energy]]]]

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[[WMG: The Fifth Magic is the manipulation of [[GurrenLagann [[Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Energy]]]]
24th Jul '15 1:41:31 PM nombretomado
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Satsuki is easier to see. She's an anomaly, a human not only with so much magic potential she turned into a true vampire in a matter of hours rather than decades, but also possessing a Reality Marble. As well, per ''MeltyBlood'', she seems to be getting stronger. Apparently, WordOfGod ''is'' that she takes the 10th spot...

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Satsuki is easier to see. She's an anomaly, a human not only with so much magic potential she turned into a true vampire in a matter of hours rather than decades, but also possessing a Reality Marble. As well, per ''MeltyBlood'', ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'', she seems to be getting stronger. Apparently, WordOfGod ''is'' that she takes the 10th spot...



** If MeltyBlood is right, then she [[spoiler:very depressingly has to be killed by Shiki in one of her endings, and in the other (going from [=ReAct=]'s storyline) he seems to have a lasting relationship with everybody (more so than the Ciel ending) while she lurks in the distance]]. I ''really'' want to know what they do with her route, since as of now it seems like they've written themselves into a corner with the other works.

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** If MeltyBlood VideoGame/MeltyBlood is right, then she [[spoiler:very depressingly has to be killed by Shiki in one of her endings, and in the other (going from [=ReAct=]'s storyline) he seems to have a lasting relationship with everybody (more so than the Ciel ending) while she lurks in the distance]]. I ''really'' want to know what they do with her route, since as of now it seems like they've written themselves into a corner with the other works.



The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.

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The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[MeltyBlood [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''MeltyBlood'' ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.



*** She ''did'' have a good reason to think her Eyes might have that effect. Arcueid might be incredibly dense at times, but she knew Shiki liked her to some extent (and like I said, it's especially obvious if she was the subject of Shiki's sex dream, and he admits it). Given that she seems to get the [[http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Tsukihime/Update%2037/s180-05.jpg moderately creepy eyes]] whenever she goes batshit (see also: the manga scene, which details it more, Ciel's True Ending, with the ''super'' creepy eyes, and [[MeltyBlood Red Arcueid]]), and they're described as Mystic Eyes of Enchantment, they're plausible. And because she doesn't know about Nanaya and she expressly knows that Shiki isn't a rapist, they're her only explanation.

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*** She ''did'' have a good reason to think her Eyes might have that effect. Arcueid might be incredibly dense at times, but she knew Shiki liked her to some extent (and like I said, it's especially obvious if she was the subject of Shiki's sex dream, and he admits it). Given that she seems to get the [[http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Tsukihime/Update%2037/s180-05.jpg moderately creepy eyes]] whenever she goes batshit (see also: the manga scene, which details it more, Ciel's True Ending, with the ''super'' creepy eyes, and [[MeltyBlood [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood Red Arcueid]]), and they're described as Mystic Eyes of Enchantment, they're plausible. And because she doesn't know about Nanaya and she expressly knows that Shiki isn't a rapist, they're her only explanation.



* There's two ways to be immune to the Eyes. That's one way (also taken by [[MeltyBlood the Night of Wallachia]]). The other way is to have a non-Gaian concept of death (like [[AllThereInTheManual ORT]]). Either way works, so yes, Shiki would have a time of it fighting them.

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* There's two ways to be immune to the Eyes. That's one way (also taken by [[MeltyBlood [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood the Night of Wallachia]]). The other way is to have a non-Gaian concept of death (like [[AllThereInTheManual ORT]]). Either way works, so yes, Shiki would have a time of it fighting them.
20th Jun '15 6:31:40 PM nombretomado
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--->"Hisui and Kohaku belong to a branch family of the [[Literature/KaraNoKyoukai Fujou]] that fell into ruin after the pair's mother broke one of clan's taboos, which is why the two girls ended being picked up by Tohno Makihisa."

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--->"Hisui and Kohaku belong to a branch family of the [[Literature/KaraNoKyoukai [[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai Fujou]] that fell into ruin after the pair's mother broke one of clan's taboos, which is why the two girls ended being picked up by Tohno Makihisa."



*** The ghost-girl from the first ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' movie?? Compared to Tohno, maybe, but the Nanayas are the Archers of Tsukihime (made powerful purely on effort).

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*** The ghost-girl from the first ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' movie?? Compared to Tohno, maybe, but the Nanayas are the Archers of Tsukihime (made powerful purely on effort).



They are different from the ones of the Shiki of ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' and SHIKI says in Drinking Dreaming Moon that he can't see the lines because of the eyes but because he understands death well, using the fact he is talking with him and that he can see Akiha's hair as proofs. In fact, he actually says Shiki's eyes AREN'T of Death Perception.

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They are different from the ones of the Shiki of ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' and SHIKI says in Drinking Dreaming Moon that he can't see the lines because of the eyes but because he understands death well, using the fact he is talking with him and that he can see Akiha's hair as proofs. In fact, he actually says Shiki's eyes AREN'T of Death Perception.



The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[Literature/KaraNoKyoukai did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.

to:

The result is that [[MultipleEndings Nearby timelines]] [[MeltyBlood fuse together]], [[CurseEscapeClause large scale time travel becomes possible]], and [[{{Sliding Scale Of Silliness Versus Seriousness}} events]] and [[BigBad beings]] are attracted to this like blood in the water. Hence ''MeltyBlood'' being a mishmash of continuities even ''within itself'', with a character that the original WordOfGod said ''[[Literature/KaraNoKyoukai ''[[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai did not exist in the same universe as Shiki Tohno]]'' coming into play.



* I haven't gotten far enough in ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' to learn of Touko's goal and why it contradicts the Shinsou (and so I can't argue against the WordOfGod alternate reality), but yes, different versions of people certainly exist in multiple universes. On the other hand, while the odds of two people having Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is incredibly low, the different circumstances of the Shikis doesn't really rely on those odds all that much. Ryougi's eyes are an in-born ability, that started to be expressed after her two-year long coma/exposure to death. Nanaya's eyes are a total accident; he already had the Pure Eyes ability of seeing mystical things that were otherwise unseeable, and his near-death experience caused his brain to start perceiving lines of Death. Barring some really weird chaos theory explanation, it doesn't seem like those events would necessarily interact at all, let alone counter each other to the extent of necessitating an alternate universe. Quoth [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Trillian]], it's not impossible, just very, very improbable.

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* I haven't gotten far enough in ''Literature/KaraNoKyoukai'' ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'' to learn of Touko's goal and why it contradicts the Shinsou (and so I can't argue against the WordOfGod alternate reality), but yes, different versions of people certainly exist in multiple universes. On the other hand, while the odds of two people having Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is incredibly low, the different circumstances of the Shikis doesn't really rely on those odds all that much. Ryougi's eyes are an in-born ability, that started to be expressed after her two-year long coma/exposure to death. Nanaya's eyes are a total accident; he already had the Pure Eyes ability of seeing mystical things that were otherwise unseeable, and his near-death experience caused his brain to start perceiving lines of Death. Barring some really weird chaos theory explanation, it doesn't seem like those events would necessarily interact at all, let alone counter each other to the extent of necessitating an alternate universe. Quoth [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Trillian]], it's not impossible, just very, very improbable.
25th Mar '15 7:54:34 PM nombretomado
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*** Mystic Eyes do consume prana. [[FateStayNight Rider's]] eyes are often bound up or sealed because they use rather a lot and can be quite taxing over long periods. However, there is no sort of binding on his eyes, so his eyes are indeed always on. That being said, he's never shown to be running low on mana to power them and does not actually use any magic. The contract with Len probably would not use up all the spare mana he has. Even if it did, it would not divert any from his eyes and would merely overtax his body and kill him ''faster'' due to what happens when your body runs out of mana to use.

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*** Mystic Eyes do consume prana. [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Rider's]] eyes are often bound up or sealed because they use rather a lot and can be quite taxing over long periods. However, there is no sort of binding on his eyes, so his eyes are indeed always on. That being said, he's never shown to be running low on mana to power them and does not actually use any magic. The contract with Len probably would not use up all the spare mana he has. Even if it did, it would not divert any from his eyes and would merely overtax his body and kill him ''faster'' due to what happens when your body runs out of mana to use.



* Possibly related: [[FateStayNight Sakura Matou becomes a DAA in a non-Heaven's Feel route.]]

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* Possibly related: [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Sakura Matou becomes a DAA in a non-Heaven's Feel route.]]



** Yeah, it probably can't - Depletion Garden is symbolic of her continual loss-without-gain, like [[FateStayNight Emiya's Unlimited Blade Works]] is representative of his never-ending conflicts and his struggle between ideal and reality. Reality Marbles are based on the base 'origin' that defines the person to the extent that they can't use it if they choose to go against it. Not much of it is mentioned though...

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** Yeah, it probably can't - Depletion Garden is symbolic of her continual loss-without-gain, like [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Emiya's Unlimited Blade Works]] is representative of his never-ending conflicts and his struggle between ideal and reality. Reality Marbles are based on the base 'origin' that defines the person to the extent that they can't use it if they choose to go against it. Not much of it is mentioned though...
24th Mar '15 7:14:38 PM nombretomado
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** Shinji used no magic. He used a tome to create an effect. Think Caster's book in FateZero or the Jewel Sword. a limited magical artifact designed to produce an effect beyond the capabilities of what you're normally capable of.

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** Shinji used no magic. He used a tome to create an effect. Think Caster's book in FateZero LightNovel/FateZero or the Jewel Sword. a limited magical artifact designed to produce an effect beyond the capabilities of what you're normally capable of.



Or at least, not mostly. Look at what she's saying. 'You'll regret this' and not 'I'll make you regret this.' 'You don't even like me.' Her reaction if it's carried through is exactly the same as if you stopped, minus a bad end since optionally raping the heroine is kind of a bad message to put across (sorry Kohaku). Also, her Mystic Eyes are not like [[FateZero Lancer/Diarmuid's]] love spot; They do not create attraction, they influence the will and mind, which ''can'' create love/lust as seen in one bad end. And Arcueid assumes this is why Shiki is trying to have sex with her? Hmmmm...

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Or at least, not mostly. Look at what she's saying. 'You'll regret this' and not 'I'll make you regret this.' 'You don't even like me.' Her reaction if it's carried through is exactly the same as if you stopped, minus a bad end since optionally raping the heroine is kind of a bad message to put across (sorry Kohaku). Also, her Mystic Eyes are not like [[FateZero [[LightNovel/FateZero Lancer/Diarmuid's]] love spot; They do not create attraction, they influence the will and mind, which ''can'' create love/lust as seen in one bad end. And Arcueid assumes this is why Shiki is trying to have sex with her? Hmmmm...
24th Oct '14 9:37:04 AM EDP
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: The identity of the top model that inspired Arcueid's looks]]
Arcueid's looks are inspired to [[http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120411210834/typemoon/images/9/91/Arcmodel.png this picture]]. But who is this woman? None other than Arcueid herself: the events of either the Arcueid or the Ciel route actually happened, and Altrouge, out of boredom, decided to manipulate Nasu and his pals into making a game out of it, making sure they got the particulars and every single backstory right.
[[FridgeHorror This of course means that the Dead Apostle Ancestors are out there]] [[OhCrap and I've just become Altrouge's target for exposing her plan...]]
12th Aug '14 2:39:35 PM EDP
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Only he's a Dead Apostle and never bothered to fully master them, so the Mage's Association ignores the part about the Third True Magic and grudgingly admit he's '''barely''' the heir to the Third.

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Only he's a Dead Apostle and never bothered to fully master them, so the Mage's Association ignores the part about the Third True Magic and grudgingly admit he's '''barely''' the heir to the Third.First.
9th Aug '14 6:58:29 PM RhymeAndTreason
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*Stahnrobe Calhin is pretty heavily implied to be the wielder of the First. He's not called the '''First''' Wraith for nothing. Or even more blatantly the Wraith '''of the First''', depending on the translation you go by. Hence the whole, 'The First True Magician is long dead but traces still exist' thing, because, y'know, wraith.
9th Aug '14 6:47:14 PM RhymeAndTreason
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* [[http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/8-Badass-Versus-Thread/page316?p=216513#post216513 Apparently, Len is actually powerful enough that she would outright consume most magi just by contracting with them.]] Soooo, confirmed, I guess. To be something of a prodigy, too. Or maybe not, there's a bit of an argument about it in the linked thread. But probably.
7th Jan '14 7:13:19 AM DaiGusMan
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: The Dark Six, The Sixth Program and the Six Sisters are the same thing, The Sixth Magic.]]
WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD:
* In Melty Blood, Tatari's objective is to keep humanity from destruction by achieving the Program Number Six (or, in japanese, Dai Roku Hou), which would create such an incredible destruction that it would forever change the world.
* In Fate/EXTRA, the world has been depleted of all Mana due to a certain catastrophe in the seventies, which caused Magic to disappear. It is strongly hinted (or outright stated, I'm not really sure) that that catastrophe was the Aylesbury Valesti, the ritual with which the DAA planned to bring back de Dark Six, which would bring together all the DAA and could be considered an enormous catastrophe. Notice the similarities?
* Now, as for the Sixth Magic, that comes from a comment by Nasu himself and a linguistic fact. Dai Roku Hou is, literally, one syllabe (or a single character, in japanese) from Dai Roku Mahou. Mahou, roughly "Magic", in the Nasuverse is solely used in the context of the Five True Magics, meanwhile all else is called Majutsu, Magecraft, in English. Nasu also once commented that he was "just one character away from it", strongly hinting that, yes, he meant the Sixth Magic.
* The part about the Six Sisters from Notes is a bit more guessed up, but there is definetely a numerical relantionship to it that seems to be too big to be pure coincidence. Also, the Six Sisters were the leaders of the A-Rays, the beings that took place of Mankind once the World died. The Death of the World here may be linked to the depletion of Mana in Fate/EXTRA, given that Mana is a natural element of Gaia, thus it wouldn't be too much a stretch to think that those things are somehow related. Not only that, but The Six Sisters were also capable of great destruction, given that one of them's death cry ripped apart a whole continent and they managed to even kill an Aristotles. A last hint of connection would be that the Six Sisters aparrently were capable of using True Magic, which would connect them to the Five and, as a result, to the Sixth.


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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.Tsukihime