Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 41,42 (click to see context) from:
** Also, considering that relations between white Americans and Native Americans are dramatically different in this AlternateHistory (to the extent that [[spoiler:Tecumseh is President of the United States]], there is quite possibly much greater pressure on the Deep South from other parts of the United States to start bringing the "peculiar institution" to an end than there was at this point in our own history.
to:
** Also, considering that relations between white Americans and Native Americans are dramatically different in this AlternateHistory (to the extent that [[spoiler:Tecumseh is President of the United States]], there is quite possibly much greater pressure on the Deep South from other parts of the United States to start bringing the "peculiar institution" to an end than there was at this point in our own history.
history. Indeed, due to the vastly different circumstances mentioned above - not to mention a practical desire to not have the Tswana armies descend on the USA - for all we know, slavery may already be dead everywhere outside the Deep South and in serious decline even there.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
With Tongues of Serpents, it looks like the U.S may eventually have to deal with a premature war, especially considering how one of the American merchants towards the end briefly mentions the division of slavery in the states (in a 'blink and you'll miss it' comment), as well as his own feelings about slavery. The Portugese merchant gets very irate over the issue and warns him that, yes, the Tswana might attack the U.S soon. Now, if the Tswana did get through their RoaringRampageofRevenge down in Brazil and worked their way up to the U.S, attacking the Southern States over the slavery issue, it might add the right combination of fuel to the flame, along with the help of the small but growing abolition movement in early 19th century Reform Era America.
to:
With Tongues of Serpents, it looks like the U.S may eventually have to deal with a premature war, especially considering how one of the American merchants towards the end briefly mentions the division of slavery in the states (in a 'blink and you'll miss it' comment), as well as his own feelings about slavery. The Portugese merchant gets very irate over the issue and warns him that, yes, the Tswana might attack the U.S soon. Now, if the Tswana did get through their RoaringRampageofRevenge down in Brazil and worked their way up to the U.S, attacking the Southern States over the slavery issue, it might add the right combination of fuel to the flame, along with the help of the small but growing abolition movement in early 19th century Reform Era America. Note that at this point in U.S. history, many influential Americans, including in Virginia and other states of the Upper South, among them Founders such as ThomasJefferson, JamesMadison and George Mason, believed that slavery was a NecessaryEvil at best and should be brought to an end if a workable alternative could be found.
Changed line(s) 41 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Also, considering that relations between white Americans and Native Americans are dramatically different in this AlternateHistory (to the extent that [[spoiler:Tecumseh is President of the United States]], there is quite possibly much greater pressure on the Deep South from other parts of the United States to start bringing the "peculiar institution" to an end than there was at this point in our own history.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
to:
* We learn more about the USA in ''Blood of Tyrants'', where we meet several Yankee merchants, including a dragon merchant from Salem, Massachusetts. Dragons appear to enjoy many, if not all, of the same Constitutional rights and liberties as humans, and the dragon merchant that Laurence and Temeraire encounter in Japan, one John Wampanonag, is so prosperous and prominent that he personally knows President [[spoiler:Tecumseh]], and that the fact that our heroes are acquainted with him is as good as a formal introduction to other American traders. While there appears to be ongoing trouble about impressment, there is no indication that this has escalated to the level of war - not that Britain, in the altered circumstances of this history, would be able, or wise to, take on yet another adversary.
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
to:
* As of ''Blood of Tyrants'', we know that the Tswana have begun harrassing the American slave trade on the high seas, though due to the efforts of Lawrence and Temeraire, they've stood down at least from the time being from their military campaign in the Americas and established a fragile peace with Brazil. However, that peace, as far as we know, extends only to Brazil, so there is no obvious reason why the Tswana shouldn't proceed with operations against slaving in the southern U.S. states at some point in the future.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Are they absent from the religions? In the first book they mention images of dragons burning sinners in Hell being used when discussing whether or not Temeraire may be a firebreather.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
fun
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Dragons are fallen angels]]
Isn't it weird that dragons so far within the Temeraire fictional universe [[ElephantInTheLivingRoom are all suspiciously absent from every one of the world's major orthodox religions]]?
* They could be likened to 'giants' or 'leviathans' of ancient scriptures. They shunned their divinity and endless-god-servitude, choosing to pursue earthly desires. Explaining why dragons are so materialistic and obsessed with either hoarding treasure or raising humans.
* The most mighty and massive of dragons like Temeraire were formerly powerful ''[[UpToEleven archangels]]''.
Isn't it weird that dragons so far within the Temeraire fictional universe [[ElephantInTheLivingRoom are all suspiciously absent from every one of the world's major orthodox religions]]?
* They could be likened to 'giants' or 'leviathans' of ancient scriptures. They shunned their divinity and endless-god-servitude, choosing to pursue earthly desires. Explaining why dragons are so materialistic and obsessed with either hoarding treasure or raising humans.
* The most mighty and massive of dragons like Temeraire were formerly powerful ''[[UpToEleven archangels]]''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 51 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Absolutely crazy alternate theory: it'll be used somehow to make Nelson a dragon. Why? For one, he'd see the other side of things. If the thing was known, he might boost the popularity of the Corps and get the dragons better treatment. If it wasn't, it could be played for drama. And personality-wise, he already shows a few dragon-like traits (sure loves his BlingOfWar, for example...)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 63 (click to see context) from:
to:
** You can say that planes co-exist with dragons, but act as cargo holders monitored by dragons during flight: this would help counter the issue of a weighed-down dragon becoming fatigued faster. Dragon transports are a common thing by this point, along with a standardized system of air traffic, and for the human who either a) can't handle being on a dragon or b) is in a real hurry to get halfway around the world, normal airliners are for them. The benefits of having dragons as a stand-in for cargo planes include the decreased chances of losing a plane for one reason or another. Of course, there are still dangers, but it would be easy having a dragon around when flying through the Bermuda Triangle.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Jossed
Changed line(s) 47 (click to see context) from:
to:
**[[spoiler: Jossed in the first chapter of Blood of Tyrants. Iskierka and Temeraire's activities in Crucible of Gold bore fruit.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Badly spelled natter
Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
*** not really it has been seen in china and to a lesser extent some parts of europe that dragons can have non combat roles including teaching, construction, and working as merchants (i'd like to see some one try to knock over a 7/11 where the clerk could bite them in half before they could blink) though the heavy weights would be more limited then mid, light and courrier wieghts
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Despite being called Breeds, different types if Dragons are really different species.]]
*But not individual breeds=individual species. It's more like All Chinese Dragons=One Species, X European Breeds=One Species; Y European Breeds=Another Species, etc. Might explain why Temeraire didn't make any eggs with a Yellow Reaper. Wrong species.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 62 (click to see context) from:
* Read, our timeframe. The final chapter of the series (epilogue of book 9+) will be a historical entry on Laurence and Temeraire, showing Laurence to be fully VindicatedByHistory and considered one of Britain's finest patriots and Temeraire the most vocal and foremost proponent of draconic rights, dying shortly after seeing them become full citizens and serving in political office for some time, in the 1930s. Other small thoughts, by our timeframe, widespread SchizoTech exists; plane flights do exist but are out competed by dragons in most cases, but electronics are nonetheless existent.
to:
* Read, our timeframe. The final chapter of the series (epilogue of book 9+) will be a historical entry on Laurence and Temeraire, showing Laurence to be fully VindicatedByHistory and considered one of Britain's finest patriots and Temeraire the most vocal and foremost proponent of draconic rights, dying shortly after seeing them become full citizens and serving in political office for some time, in the 1930s. Other small thoughts, by our timeframe, widespread SchizoTech exists; plane flights do exist but are out competed by dragons in most cases, but electronics are nonetheless existent. existent.
[[WMG: Laurence will get married (or at least engaged) in the next book.]]
* So as of the end of Crucible of Gold Laurence and Temeraire are planning to head to China in hopes of securing an alliance. We know from previous books that the Emperor believes that Laurence should get married and father some sons and would be perfectly happy to find him a wife. Given all that I reckon that part of the alliance negotiations will involve Laurence getting married (either to a Chinese woman as a representative of the British court or to an English woman as a representative of the Chinese court).
[[WMG: Laurence will get married (or at least engaged) in the next book.]]
* So as of the end of Crucible of Gold Laurence and Temeraire are planning to head to China in hopes of securing an alliance. We know from previous books that the Emperor believes that Laurence should get married and father some sons and would be perfectly happy to find him a wife. Given all that I reckon that part of the alliance negotiations will involve Laurence getting married (either to a Chinese woman as a representative of the British court or to an English woman as a representative of the Chinese court).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
to:
*** As an extension of this WMG: Lady Allendale will become the founder of the women's rights movement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
to:
**It's unlikely that the Celestials will die out, seeing as they can be born from two Imperials. To be honest, the Celestials seem less a different breed and more of a mutation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Thoughts on the FAR distant future]]
* Read, our timeframe. The final chapter of the series (epilogue of book 9+) will be a historical entry on Laurence and Temeraire, showing Laurence to be fully VindicatedByHistory and considered one of Britain's finest patriots and Temeraire the most vocal and foremost proponent of draconic rights, dying shortly after seeing them become full citizens and serving in political office for some time, in the 1930s. Other small thoughts, by our timeframe, widespread SchizoTech exists; plane flights do exist but are out competed by dragons in most cases, but electronics are nonetheless existent.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
to:
** [[spoiler: This is somewhat directly speculated upon in Crucible of Gold, although whether he is infertile or if Celestials can't interbreed with other dragons has yet to be seen.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
to:
***not really it has been seen in china and to a lesser extent some parts of europe that dragons can have non combat roles including teaching, construction, and working as merchants (i'd like to see some one try to knock over a 7/11 where the clerk could bite them in half before they could blink) though the heavy weights would be more limited then mid, light and courrier wieghts
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Barring that, he will take a spot in the Foreign Ministry. At the very least his translation and cryptography talents will be of use once they get some magnification gear set up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 50 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Well now Jane is finally Admiral of the Air. Laurence is ''not'' the only competent air commander England has, as the plot of "Victory of Eagles" is basically "We'll stick you and Temeraire in the hinterlands on raiding detail while the real war effort takes shape". Laurence and Temeraire played a vital role in preventing French troops from foraging, but it was Jane who smashed the French attempt to build an air bridge, and Nelson who cut off French shipping in the channel.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Laurence and/or Temeraire will be appointed Admiral of the Air]]
It will be brief though, and probably a measure of desperation in the heat of battle. Whoever is doing the appointing, most likely Jane or the Duke of Wellington, will have a hilrious short conversation with the two of them along the lines of, "You're a traitor, and you're a dragon. Unfortunately, you're both the only competent commanders on this field. Work it out, and we can handle the politics later."
[[WMG:Thoughts on the distant future (after Laurence dies, hopefully from old age)...]]
*Temeraire, after a stint as Admiral of the Air, will take over training from Celeritas
*Emily Roland on Excidium will become Admiral of the Air, and be publicly female
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
to:
** It's possible that Celestials can't breed with most other breeds of dragons. We know they can't breed with each other, it's not unlikely that it's difficult for the species as a whole to concieve.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Fixing markup
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say...]] [[strike:[[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]]]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
Remember back in the beginning when Temeraire twirled about the idea of Laurence becoming a dragon after hearing that story? I'm just guessing that Temeraire isn't going to take it very well when Laurence dies; be it of old age or in battle if Victory of Eagles is any indication, but especially for the latter.
to:
Remember back in the beginning when Temeraire twirled about the idea of Laurence becoming a dragon after hearing that story? I'm just guessing that Temeraire isn't going to take it very well when Laurence dies; dies, be it of old age or in battle if Victory of Eagles is any indication, but especially for the latter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Age shouldn't be an issue, Celestial's supposedly last well in excess of 300 years, possibly even 400.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 27,28 (click to see context) from:
* As of Tongues of Serpents, the United States did revolt in '76 (and are making noises about a [[Warof1812 second war]] if the Brits don't stop impressment), but it's...different, and seems to have merged with Native American tribes, rather than displacing them.
to:
* As of Tongues of Serpents, the United States did revolt in '76 (and are making noises about a [[Warof1812 [[{{War Of 1812}} second war]] if the Brits don't stop impressment), but it's...different, and seems to have merged with Native American tribes, rather than displacing them.them (possibly due to their command of the vast numbers of native dragons and the colonials likely having one of their own).
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
<<|WildMassGuessing|>>
to:
<<|WildMassGuessing|>>
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The Tswana "reincarnation ritual" from book 4 is a ChekhovsGun]]
Remember back in the beginning when Temeraire twirled about the idea of Laurence becoming a dragon after hearing that story? I'm just guessing that Temeraire isn't going to take it very well when Laurence dies; be it of old age or in battle if Victory of Eagles is any indication, but especially for the latter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say...]] [[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
to:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say...]] [[spoiler: [[strike:[[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]] Roland]]]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say...]] [[strike:[[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]]]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
to:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say...]] [[strike:[[spoiler: [[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]]]] Roland]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say... [[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]] will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouth shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.
to:
* [[strike: Presuming they still keep the whole mess under wraps, those with clearance to know about... say... [[spoiler: ]] [[strike:[[spoiler: Admiral of the Air J. Roland]] Roland]]]] [[strike: will at least be somewhat more likely to keep thier mouth mouths shut rather than parrot the common "wisdom" of female incapacity.]]
** BTW, as of book six, this seems off the table.
** BTW, as of book six, this seems off the table.
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
to:
*** There may be active collaboration to that effect. [[spoiler: Jane mentioned cultivating the wives of some ministers in one of her letters to Laurence.]]
Changed line(s) 36,37 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Temeraire is infertile]]
Seeing as there's only 8 Celestials period, and Temeraire did all that breeding in books 4 and 5 and never got an egg, he might very well be unable to sire an egg at all -- and Celestials may die out.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Hopefully, by that point they will have citizenship and at least a few options open outside of the military (admittedly, without thumbs many occupations remain problematic)
