History WMG / SilentHill3

** It's the mildly bemused tone when he says "They look like ''monsters'' to you?" that sells it. He clearly wasn't expecting Heather to react the way she does (and, really, your head have to be pretty far up your own ass to assume any random person would be fine with realizing they'd just slaughtered hundreds of innocent people; certainly more so than the vibe Vincent otherwise puts out) and so he quickly backpedals and claims to be joking, but the fact that he was caught off-guard in the first place suggests that Heather hasn't been butchering hundreds of innocent people on a psychotic murder spree, but she ''has'' been killing things that Vincent, as a high-ranking member of the cult, has never perceived as evil or threatening.

** It's the mildly bemused tone when he says "They look like ''monsters'' to you?" that sells it. He clearly wasn't expecting Heather to react the way she does (and, really, your head have to be pretty far up your own ass to assume any random person would be fine with realizing they'd just butchered hundreds of innocent people; certainly more so than the vibe Vincent otherwise puts out) and so he quickly backpedals and claims to be joking, but the fact that he was caught off-guard in the first place suggests that Heather hasn't been butchering hundreds of innocent people on a psychotic murder spree, but she ''has'' been killing things that Vincent, as a high-ranking member of the cult, has never perceived as evil or threatening.

** It's the mildly bemused tone when he says "They look like ''monsters'' to you?" that sells it. He clearly wasn't expecting Heather to react the way she does and so he quickly backpedals and claims to be joking. But the fact that he was caught off-guard in the first place suggests that Heather hasn't been butchering hundreds of innocent people on a psychotic murder spree, but she ''has'' been killing things that Vincent, as a high-ranking member of the cult, has never perceived as evil or threatening.

** No canon ending for ''VideoGame/SilentHill2'' per WordOfGod. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. Based on everything the creative director has explained about the plot of ''2'', [[spoiler:James made his second trip to Silent Hill immediately after euthanizing Mary, making it ''extremely'' unlikely that he'd quickly nip off to the phone and make sure Pop knew where he was going]]. Unless we assume Frank is referring to the first time the couple visited the town, and dealing with Mary's illness wore James down to the point that he shut out everyone and everything else in his life, then it seems like that line in ''4'' is just another symptom of that game's obsession with taking every little minor worldbuilding detail from ''2'' and making it more "important", without regard for whether or not it makes any sense. Because Douglas gives no specifics as to who the missing person was, it's equally possible he was referring to Eddie, or even some other random guy who disappeared in the town; Silent Hill seems like a place where mysterious disappearances aren't exactly rare.

** No canon ending for ''VideoGame/SilentHill2'' per WordOfGod. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. Based on everything the creative director has explained about the plot of ''2'', [[spoiler:James made his second trip to Silent Hill immediately after euthanizing Mary, making it ''extremely'' unlikely that he'd quickly nip off to the phone and make sure Pop knew where he was going]]. Unless we assume Frank is referring to the first time the couple visited the town, and dealing with Mary's illness wore James down to the point that he shut out everyone and everything else in his life, then it seems like that line in ''4'' is just another symptom of that game's obsession with taking every little minor worldbuilding detail from ''2'' and making it more "important", without regard for whether or not it makes any sense.

* was [[VideoGame/SilentHill2 James]], implying [[spoiler: the [[DrivenToSuicide In Water ending]] is canon]]. It's likely that Frank Sunderland hired Douglas as flavor text in [[VideoGame/SilentHill4 that game]] states that [[spoiler: James and Mary [[NeverFoundTheBody "disappeared"]] in Silent Hill]] which Frank wouldn't assume unless he actually hired someone to look for him there.[[/folder]]

* Perhaps more specifically, the town might be channeling Harry. Call this a stretch if you want, but this troper thinks it's both a reference to how Harry doesn't know this person as her original daughter Cheryl, and a [[IncrediblyLamePun dad joke]].

** He also makes the assumption that the otherworld coming from Alessa's subconscious would seem benevolent or at least harmless to her, rather than an open threat (which may not have been true even for the original Alessa!). Then when he noticed that Heather was killing these beings, he might have been worried that Heather was giving in to some dark impulses that might further Claudia's plans, and the rant he gave was an attempt to "wake her up". People treat "They look like monsters to you?" as a potential WhamLine, but it may be that the ''real'' WhamLine in that scene was Heather's line right before that: "You're talking about the monsters?", with Vincent's reply being his way of giving voice to "Oh, ''that's'' what's going on...!" Between Heather's reply, and also her reaction to the possibility that she'd killed ''actual people'' (or at least benign beings), Vincent likely realized that she might have killed not out of cruelty or wrath, but out of self-defense or fear for her life, and so ended the rant as quickly as he could, if a bit awkwardly.

** Hmm. I have two reasons. One, come on, it has been like what, almost two decades. [[CaptainObvious He's]] [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment old]]. Two, who knows? They might've just got him when he was sleeping.

The town itself. On many occasions the town is implied to be intelligent, and self aware, and creates the puzzles and such as a way of manipulating and toying with the protagonists, while at the same time subtly guiding them towards an eventual revelation. Compare this to the voice on the other end of the phone. It's giving her information, subtly telling her "you're older than you think you are". It also says "Happy Birthday Dear Who Are You?", a way of subtly pointing out "you don't know who you really are", and soon after gives her "birthday presents" which is essentially the town itself giving her them. Now with that in mind, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nrf5lmrsEI listen to it again.]] Doesn't everything it's saying sound like something the town itself would know, and say, if it could speak?

[[folder:Vincent's "joke" does not mean the monsters are actually people.]]

[[folder:In Silent Hill 3, Heather is aware of the scenes that she doesn't show up in.]]

[[folder:Valtiel isn't a thinking creature at all, it just carries out orders directly from whatever is behind Silent Hill.]]
It is just a bundle of instinct, and most of that instinct is to follow the orders of the voice that sometimes talks in its head -- or rather, the ideas it sometimes has just out of the blue, since a voice inside its head might be too abstract a concept for it to get. It dioesn't really understand what it's supposed to do, it just does it. Like a valet, in the traditional role of a servant, being a part of the House that gets things done when told. Pyramid Head, on the other hand, is a separate entity, and one that works toward its own gratification and release of boredom. They're both on the same level, but Pyramid Head is more of a "Silent Hill tells me to do this, sure, but I'll just mess around with my own stuff until I get the chance" and Valtiel is like a flesh-robot. With instincts and a way to input instructios, but no mind of its own. (It came to me in a dream, cliche though it is.)

[[folder: In Silent Hill 3, Claudia and Vincent are siblings.]]

* An alternate theory isn't the ''fact'' that you're forgiving someone, it's ''the person'' you're forgiving... After all, a woman, sobbing her heart out about the "awful things" she did to her "own daughter", which however terrible were for "good intentions"? [[spoiler:Heather may as well be saying "I forgive you, mommy."]]

[[folder:Harry isn't really dead]]

* This troper seems to remember the birthday card Alessa gave Claudia as reading "I love you as if you were my real sister", so being biological related seems unlikely. Someone earlier on this page did make a suggestion that Dahlia practically adopted Claudia, protecting her from her obviously unfit father, which would make a lot of sense.

[[folder: If Cybil had been saved in ''VideoGame/SilentHill1''; she would have still been around and would have saved Harry.]]

* At the end of the game, after Heather [[spoiler:kills God]], she turns her head around to look behind her, as if she noticed something. What she heard is [[spoiler:the sound of a baby crying. This is supposed to imply the reincarnation of God into a new host.]] [[/folder]]

[[folder:Cheryl/Heather is Alessa's [[Franchise/KingdomHearts Nobody]].]]
This is why Cheryl merges with Alessa at the end of the first game, and Heather is haunted by Alessa's Memory in the third.

Considering the human-to-monster transition that happened with Leonard Wolf and that both Valtiel and Stanley are very fond of stalking Heather...could be interesting. Looking back at the notes, it'd make sense if Stanley/Valtiel was already a monster and just gradually lost touch with his humanity (and sanity) until he couldn't write anymore. It'd also give reason for why we don't see Stanley (human) but do see Valtiel (monster) following Heather, since the notes suggest Stanley wants to be seen. What's more, Stanley was shut in the hospital by the Organization to make him forget something -- what if they deliberately created Valtiel as an obsessive attendant to protect Heather from other monsters and, by connection, ensure the birth of God?

[[folder:Cheryl/Heather is Alessa's Nobody.]]
From ''KingdomHearts''. This is why Cheryl merges with Alessa at the end of the first game, and Heather is haunted by Alessa's Memory in the third.

In the beginning of the game, Heather has a premonition of the Amusement Park. This even saves her life. Although it's not canon, in the replays, Heather attains more GameBreakers than any other character in the series and is the only one to gain a special power. She also had the power to safely carry around "God" whereas Claudia was instantly destroyed by it. If you take the above theory about her heightened intuition as being true, it makes this even more likely. [[/folder]]

Look at how Vincent acts and how he talks to Claudia. He says he fears and adores God, but that he doesn't believe the Otherworld and the monsters are her handy work. He finds the idea of God being born horrifying, not just because it means an end to his hedonism, but because he considers it a blasphemy to force God into the material world, especially through such questionable means. Claudia, Leonard and Dahlia both belong to the Sect of the Holy Mother, a heretical and insane offshoot of the actual Order, and Vincent clearly disapproves of their methods.

The town itself. On many occasions the town is implied to be intelligent, and self aware, and creates the puzzles and such as a way of manipulating and toying with the protagonists, while at the same time subtly guiding them towards an eventual revelation. Compare this to the voice on the other end of the phone. It's giving her information, subtly telling her "you're older than you think you", it also says "Happy Birthday Dear Who Are You?" a way of subtly pointing out "you don't know who you really are" and soon after gives her "birthday presents" which is essentially the town itself giving her them. Now with that in mind, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nrf5lmrsEI listen to it again.]] Doesn't everything it's saying sound like something the town itself would know, and say, if it could speak?

** ''Downpour'' seems to confirm this-not only do other people than the protagonist see monsters, they occasionally see the ''same'' monsters-both Anne and Murphy see the Bogeyman, and Murphy briefly ''becomes'' the Bogeyman. So, either Vincent was lying or seeing things differently, or the town is a fan of mental tricks.

* Alternatively, he doesn't say that because he sees them as simply fascinating creatures. He asks the question because they are NOT monsters to the Cult. They are the angels of Silent Hill's religion. This is somewhat supported by some of the pictures and descriptions found in the Chapel. "God created beings to lead peoplev in obedience to Her. The red god, Xuchilbara; the yellow god, Lobsel Vith; many gods and angels."

It is just a bundle of instinct, and most of that instinct is to follow the orders of the voice that sometimes talks in its head- or rather, the ideas it sometimes has just out of the blue, since a voice inside its head might be too abstract a concept for it to get. It dioesn't really understand what it's supposed to do, it just does it. Like a valet, in the traditional role of a servant, being a part of the House that gets things done when told. Pyramid head, on the other hand, is a separate entity, and one that works toward its own gratification and release of boredom. They're both on the same level, but Pyramid Head is more of a "Silent hill tells me to do this, sure, but i'll just mess around with my own stuff until I get the chance" and Valtiel is like a flesh-robot. With instincts and a way to input instructios, but no mind of its own. (It came to me in a dream, cliche though it is.)

Welll, it makes sense to me, at least. I mean, Vincent claimed to have the memory of Claudia's father beating her burned into his mind, so either he was a member of the household in some way, shape or form, or really liked to stalk people. Also it seemed to me like they had some sort of rivalry thing going on, but maybe I'm just weird.

The real reason is because it shows that even after all she's been through--[[spoiler:learning about how awful Claudia's past was, gradually gaining back Alessa's old memories which included a time when she'd loved Claudia like a sister]]--she still believes that murder excuses murder and revenge can be justified. Which is a belief that we ''know'' give the God a major boost in power [[spoiler:since every time she starts raging at Claudia it gets strong enough to make her keel over from the pain of it, and is what ultimately pushes it over the edge of the amount of strength needed for it to be born if she tries to kill Claudia at the end]].

* Vincent's, most likely. Jerk though he was, you can't help being fond of him, and he did try to help. It would make sense for her to visit his grave at least once. It could also be Claudia's, but that pose makes me think it's Vincent's.

* But my point about Harry putting up a fight remains the same. Do you really think Harry would just sit there calmly and let it kill him? It's not like it could sneak up on him. And the apartment is cramped, which means it can't dodge around around the way it likes to in the boss fight, which would have made it an even easier target for Harry. (Besides, the only reason it did kill me was because I'd played through the games several times already and knew it wasn't a hard boss. That death was due to stupidity on my part, not the toughness of the Missionary.)

God's intentions towards James were to feed on his misery in order to regain her power, therefore her servant fulfilled the role of his "dark side", repeatedly killing a woman heavily resembling his wife and acting out his baser urges on the other monsters. Towards Heather however her intentions were to observe and guide her until she was able to be summoned into the world, a task again performed by a servant of hers, referred to in [[http://www.translatedmemories.com/book.html the Book of Lost Memories]] as "the God's attendant". That both Pyramid Head and Valtiel resemble humans far more than their contemporaries and resemble each other even more, the latter only possessing slightly less bulk than the former - which also exhibits limited ability to alter his form for specific objectives - is even more evidence to suggest, at the very least, a strong link between them.
* Pyramid Head's origins are implied in 2, and semi-confirmed in [[AllThereInTheManual later supplements]]; the Cult used (their impression of) the image of Valtiel as the basis for the ritual dress of people who acted as punishers/executioners, adding the embellishment of a large, triangular red hood that covered their face completely. James saw a picture of these "punishers" during his initial visit to Silent Hill with Mary, in the Historical Society (when seeing the same picture during the game, he says he remembers it and that it gave him chills). They were known for using nooses (seen in the courtyard of the prison with a plaque with two PH's on it) and spears (seen whenever PH doesn't have his signature knife). As Pyramid Head is James' own guilt and self-hatred made manifest as a physical need to be punished - outright stated - his subconscious connection to the town took and made the already extant image of the executioners even MORE horrible by taking the hood and turning it into a heavy, painful metal helmet, and making him carry around a giant, cumbersome but gruesomely effective knife because... [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic it's a knife]].

Considering the human-to-monster transition that happened with Leonard Wolf and that both Valtiel and Stanley are very fond of stalking Heather...could be interesting. Looking back at the notes, it'd make sense if Stanley/Valtiel was already a monster and just gradually lost touch with his humanity (and sanity) until he couldn't write anymore. It'd also give reason for why we don't see Stanley (human) but do see Valtiel (monster) following Heather, since the notes suggest Stanley wants to be seen. What's more, Stanley was shut in the hospital by the Organization to make him forget something--what if they deliberately created Valtiel as an obsessive attendant to protect Heather from other monsters and, by connection, ensure the birth of God?

* This troper seems to remember the birthday card Alessa gave Claudia as reading "I love you as if you were my real sister", so being biological related seems unlikely. Someone earlier on this page did make a suggestion that Dahlia practically adopted Claudia,protecting her from her obviously unfit father, which would make a lot of sense.

Every time Heather goes into the dark world she has to touch a symbol, usually on a mirror or reflective surface. She mentions it being the symbol "of the god of time" and it isn't really mentioned after this. In the dark world, any metal is rusted and corroded, paint is flaked off, wood paneling swells with ages of moisture. Every normal place now is barricaded up, chain mesh fences, steel plates welding rooms shut. What if some horrible invasion occurred, a mutagen that turned normal people into horrible monstrosities? Imagine a world after a zombie apocalypse, anywhere that wasn't trashed would be heavily fortified. Somehow, heather has the ability to travel between the sane now and the seemingly insane then. [[/folder]]

* Harry was able to give Heather the aglaophotis because he didn't use it on Cybil. (Yes, the Book of Lost Memories claims he got more "somehow" but this seems much more consistent.) [[/folder]]

* At the end of the game, after Heather [[spoiler: kills God]], she turns her head around to look behind her, as if she noticed something. What she heard is [[spoiler: the sound of a baby crying. This is supposed to imply the reincarnation of God into a new host.]] [[/folder]]

It is just a bundle of instinct, and most of that instinct is to follow the orders of the voice that sometimes talks in its head- or rather, the ideas it sometimes has just out of the blue, since a voice inside its head might be too abstract a concept for it to get. It dioesn't really understand what it's supposed to do, it just does it. Like a valet, in the traditional role of a servant, beign a part of the House that gets things done when told. Pyramid head, on the other hand, is a separate entity, and one that works toward its own gratification and release of boredom. They're both on the same level, but Pyramid Head is more of a "Silent hill tells me to do this, sure, but i'll just mess around with my own stuff until I get the chance" and Valtiel is like a flesh-robot. With instincts and a way to input instructios, but no mind of its own. (It came to me in a dream, cliche though it is.)

This version of Harry didn't get OneHundredPercentCompletion in the first game.[[/folder]]
* Harry was able to give Heather the aglaophotis because he didn't use it on Cybil. (Yes, the Book of Lost Memories claims he got more "somehow" but this seems much more consistent.)

* I think there might be some truth to that. One idea I've considered that, since he knows the otherworld's coming from Heather/Alessa's powers and subconscious, he's startled that ''she'' thinks they're monsters. He'd been assuming that, however bizarre they look, they must make sense to her since she's the one creating them. Vincent has a bad habit of assuming that Heather already knows everthing Alessa knew (such as thinking she'd know how to use the Seal of Metatron), and it takes him aback when he finds out she doesn't understand what they are. Then again, he says it in such a slow, dramatic tone that he could really just be messing with her.

[[folder: The "Happy Birthday" voice on the other end of the phone is...]]
The town itself. On many occasions the town is implied to be intelligent, and self aware, and creates the puzzles and such as a way of manipulating and toying with the protagonists, while at the same time subtly guiding them towards an eventual revelation. Compare this to the voice on the other end of the phone. It's giving her information, subtly telling her "you're older than you think you", it also says "Happy Birthday Dear Who Are You?" a way of subtly pointing out "you don't know who you really are" and soon after gives her "birthday presents" which is essentially the town itself giving her them. Now with that in mind, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nrf5lmrsEI listen to it again.]] Doesn't everything it's saying sound like something the town itself would know, and say, if it could speak?