History WMG / ICO

29th Aug '16 10:22:54 AM Sar-Chasm
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[[WMG: The graves you see around the castle are [[spoiler: the Queen's previous bodies.]]]] The only people ever seen in the castle are the Queen and Yorda
3rd Jul '16 10:54:14 AM dotchan
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[[WMG: The alternating male and female characters in the "city escape" narrative in {{Braid}} are reincarnations of Ico and Yorda]]

The male thinks himself as a heroic defender; the female thinks that the male is hurting her.
19th Dec '15 2:04:38 PM nombretomado
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[[WMG: [[spoiler:The beach Ico and Yorda wash up on in the ending is part of the [[ShadowOfTheColossus Forbidden Land]].]]]]

Besides the fact that [[spoiler:the beach can be found and explored in ShadowOfTheColossus]], if the select screen from the UpdatedRerelease compilation is anything to go by, [[spoiler:the Forbidden Land]] and the Castle in the Mist aren't far off from each other... [[spoiler:Also notably, the silhouette of the person on Agro on the ShadowOfTheColossus portion of the select screen has horns, something Wander wouldn't gain until near the end game. How Agro is still alive after all those years... Maybe Dormin's magic kept her/him alive like in the 'Mono is the Shadow Queen' theory. After all, s/he ''did'' survive a massive fall with her/his only injury being a sprained leg...]]

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[[WMG: [[spoiler:The beach Ico and Yorda wash up on in the ending is part of the [[ShadowOfTheColossus [[VideoGame/ShadowOfTheColossus Forbidden Land]].]]]]

Besides the fact that [[spoiler:the beach can be found and explored in ShadowOfTheColossus]], VideoGame/ShadowOfTheColossus]], if the select screen from the UpdatedRerelease compilation is anything to go by, [[spoiler:the Forbidden Land]] and the Castle in the Mist aren't far off from each other... [[spoiler:Also notably, the silhouette of the person on Agro on the ShadowOfTheColossus VideoGame/ShadowOfTheColossus portion of the select screen has horns, something Wander wouldn't gain until near the end game. How Agro is still alive after all those years... Maybe Dormin's magic kept her/him alive like in the 'Mono is the Shadow Queen' theory. After all, s/he ''did'' survive a massive fall with her/his only injury being a sprained leg...]]



[[WMG: The Queen and Yorda are Descendants or fragments of [[ShadowOfTheColossus Dormin]]]]

* It's quite obvious that Yorda and the Queen are Dormin's descendants or pieces of Dormin; just look at Dormin in ShadowOfTheColossus and compare it to the Queen and Yorda in Ico.

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[[WMG: The Queen and Yorda are Descendants or fragments of [[ShadowOfTheColossus [[VideoGame/ShadowOfTheColossus Dormin]]]]

* It's quite obvious that Yorda and the Queen are Dormin's descendants or pieces of Dormin; just look at Dormin in ShadowOfTheColossus VideoGame/ShadowOfTheColossus and compare it to the Queen and Yorda in Ico.
5th Apr '15 12:48:36 PM Creaturemaster
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** From now on, this is my personal canon.- Creaturemaster
27th Sep '14 2:30:40 PM SparkyLurkdragon
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[[WMG: The two gods mentioned in the novel are one in the same.]]

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[[WMG: The two gods mentioned in the novel are one in and the same.]]
26th Sep '14 8:01:46 PM SparkyLurkdragon
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[[WMG: Miyuki Miyabe's novelization is an AlternateUniverse resulting from a different ending to Shadow of the Colossus.]]
''ICO: Castle in the Mist'' was written before ''Videogame/ShadowOfTheColossus'' was made (one possible reason beyond Ueda wanting to maintain a vague storyline that it's non-canon), but it's surprisingly easy to retcon it in if we suppose that ''Colossus'' ended a little differently in the book's universe. Suppose the ritual completed successfully, with no interference from Emon, and suppose then that Dormin are if not good at least not malevolent - They return Wander's body to him once They extract the last bit of Their soul from his body, leaving horns as a sign of one who has carried the soul of a god inside his mortal body and survived. Naturally, They hold up the bargain about reviving Mono, as well, and send the lovers on their way. Everything that's different about the book - Ico's magic tabard, the castle's layout, Yorda being older, the little changes in the ultimate ending, and so on - are all cascading ripple effects from this one change.

Sir Ozuma, then, is a descendant of and quite possibly a reincarnation of Wander. Ozuma tells Yorda that all his people have horns, which they gained from the blood of their ancestor: an unnamed man who "carried in his veins the blood of a fierce wild ox, protector of the earth. He was our guardian deity, rescuing the weak and punishing our enemies, with eternal life granted him directly by Sol Raveh, the Sun God. Thus the horns are a sign of our divine gift and a symbol of our holy contract." A little garbling of the story over the ages and Dormin's influence might have become misattributed to the more popular Sol Raveh, and the blood of the Colossi to the wild ox. Or maybe Dormin was an aspect of the Sun God all along, or even the other way around.

Ozuma goes on to say that his people don't have a home country: as protectors of earth, they are perpetual wanderers who walk among the people of all nations. Wanderers, huh?

[[spoiler: Ico is Ozuma's descendent in the novel, and if Ozuma is Wander's descendant, that keeps the 'Wander started the lineage of horned boys' plot point that Ueda confirmed.]]

[[WMG: The two gods mentioned in the novel are one in the same.]]
The Dark God and Sol Raveh are, in truth, different aspects of the same god, who embodies light and darkness equally, with one aspect sometimes showing more strongly than the other. In certain other countries, They are known by the name Dormin and worshiped as one.
4th May '13 1:40:57 PM StarOutlaw
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In some sense, Ico killing the Queen and escaping with Yorda can be seen in some way as redeeming the acts of Wander and Mono's life s the Queen. Much like Wander, Ico is determined to save a girl he likes, but whereas Wander's deal with Dormin could be seen as selfish, someone unwilling to let go of the dead and going to great extremes, Ico saves Yorda out of pure kindness and selflessness. At the same time, at the end of ICO, we see that Yorda is willing to part with ICO so that he can live, if you believe that Mono is the Queen longing for Wander.

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In some sense, Ico killing the Queen and escaping with Yorda can be seen in some way as redeeming the acts of Wander and Mono's life s as the Queen. Much like Wander, Ico is determined to save a girl he likes, but whereas Wander's deal with Dormin could be seen as selfish, someone unwilling to let go of the dead and going to great extremes, Ico saves Yorda out of pure kindness and selflessness. At the same time, at the end of ICO, we see that Yorda is willing to part with ICO so that he can live, if you believe that Mono is the Queen longing for Wander.
Wander.

Alternatively, the Queen could also be a descendant of Mono and Wander, rather than Mono herself. The Queen learned of her own lineage and found a way to harness Dormin's power; while the masculine part of Dormin is manifested as horned boys, the feminine part manifests as women with magical power.
4th May '13 1:31:46 PM StarOutlaw
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[[WMG: How it ties to Shadow of the Colossus]]

This is more or less an one big elaboration on theories already posted, and I posted this in the SOTC WMG page.

When Wander killed the colossi and broke the seals, Dormin's power took Wander as his new host, but because of Dormin's deal with Wander, the feminine part of Their power went to Mono to revive her. The spell Emon casts at the end of the game not only resealed Dormin's power within Wander, but severely diminished it, with the side effect being that Wander was reborn as a baby with a piece of Dormin's power within him, giving him horns. Mono then raised baby Wander, and eventually he had children who would start the lineage of horned people.

It is possible that because of Dormin's power, Mono became immortal, but more corrupted as time passed. It's possible that she did have children with Wander, and the horned children are her descendants as well. But her immortality caused her loneliness as she watched her husband and children and grandchildren all die through the ages. She also learned how to begin harnessing the power of Dormin. When a horned descendant of hers died, it released a part of Dormin's power which she could absorb, and it was this that was prolonging her life and slowly made her more powerful.

It is possible that Wander and Mono had founded their own kingdom, or Mono used her power to take control of a kingdom, one which she would rule for centuries. This could explain the statues of the horned people seen in the castle in ICO. Mono would become the Queen, and as time passed she began to demand the horned children as sacrifices so she could continue living. Another possibility is that, rather than being an actual queen of a forgotten kingdom, Mono/the Queen simply terrorized the land kidnapping any horned children she found in some deranged attempt to be reunited with Wander who had died long ago, until it became tradition for people to willingly sacrifice the horned children so that they would be spared her wrath. Either way, it became a tradition, and the horned children were seen as a curse. Mono made her home in the abandoned castle, and waited for each sacrifice to strengthen her and prolong her life. This was the cursed fate for which Emon sacrificed Mono, which would be a SelfFulfillingProphecy.

But the Queen's body, Mono's body, would eventually begin to deteriorate as the time between each sacrifice became longer and longer, due to the horned children being sacrificed before they could have any children and pass down Dormin's power. The Queen had absorbed much of the masculine part of Dormin, which was another factor to her madness. She thought of a plan and created a new being, her daughter Yorda. It is possible that the Queen had Yorda with one of the horned children sacrificed. The Queen instilled in Yorda much of the feminine part of Dormin, which would cause the Queen to die quicker, so she needed to take over Yorda's body quickly, until Ico got free.

In some sense, Ico killing the Queen and escaping with Yorda can be seen in some way as redeeming the acts of Wander and Mono's life s the Queen. Much like Wander, Ico is determined to save a girl he likes, but whereas Wander's deal with Dormin could be seen as selfish, someone unwilling to let go of the dead and going to great extremes, Ico saves Yorda out of pure kindness and selflessness. At the same time, at the end of ICO, we see that Yorda is willing to part with ICO so that he can live, if you believe that Mono is the Queen longing for Wander.
3rd May '13 7:47:53 PM Luigifan
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After the events of Shadow of the Colossus, Mono is revived, and (knowing it's power firsthand) begins to use the "shadow energy" inherently found in the lineage of horned boys as a means to bring Wander back to her. Like Wander before her, her physical form is distorted after handling so much evil energy. During the events in Ico, she may still be trying to revive Wander, or she may have long since abandoned that goal.

[[WMG: [[spoiler: The beach Ico and Yorda wash up on in the ending is part of the [[ShadowOfTheColossus Forbidden Land]].]]]]

Besides the fact that [[spoiler: the beach can be found and explorered in ShadowOfTheColossus]], if the select screen from the UpdatedRerelease compilation is anything to go by, [[spoiler: the Forbidden Land]] and the Castle in the Mist aren't far off from each other... [[spoiler: Also notably, the silhouette' of the person on Agro on the ShadowOfTheColossus portion of the select screen has horns, something Wander wouldn't gain until near the end game. How Agro is still alive after all those years... Maybe Dormins magic kept her/him alive like in the 'Mono is the Shadow Queen' threoy. After all, s/he ''did'' survive a massive fall with her/his only injury being a sprained leg...]]

to:

After the events of Shadow of the Colossus, Mono is revived, and (knowing it's its power firsthand) begins to use the "shadow energy" inherently found in the lineage of horned boys as a means to bring Wander back to her. Like Wander before her, her physical form is distorted after handling so much evil energy. During the events in Ico, she may still be trying to revive Wander, or she may have long since abandoned that goal.

[[WMG: [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The beach Ico and Yorda wash up on in the ending is part of the [[ShadowOfTheColossus Forbidden Land]].]]]]

Besides the fact that [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the beach can be found and explorered explored in ShadowOfTheColossus]], if the select screen from the UpdatedRerelease compilation is anything to go by, [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the Forbidden Land]] and the Castle in the Mist aren't far off from each other... [[spoiler: Also [[spoiler:Also notably, the silhouette' silhouette of the person on Agro on the ShadowOfTheColossus portion of the select screen has horns, something Wander wouldn't gain until near the end game. How Agro is still alive after all those years... Maybe Dormins Dormin's magic kept her/him alive like in the 'Mono is the Shadow Queen' threoy.theory. After all, s/he ''did'' survive a massive fall with her/his only injury being a sprained leg...]]



I've seen at least one review interpret it as Yorda struggling to keep up, but this troper likes to think of it as Ico's heart beating faster when he holds her hand.

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I've seen at least one review interpret it as Yorda struggling to keep up, but this troper likes to think of it as Ico's heart beating faster when he holds her hand.




Bruno de Figueiredo, in his classic [[http://dieubussy.web.simplesnet.pt/SomeBirds.pdf Some Birds Aren't Meant to Be Caged]] essay on ''{{Ico}}'', comments that the one piece of Ico's escape that's out of his control is the opening of his sarcophagus. From that initial break all else follows.

Presuming that event was random fortune is possible, but a weak cliche in a game that's all about ''well-done'' cliches. (Just as falling back on ''{{AIIsACrapshoot}}'' is a weak way to explain [=GLaDOS=]' mental state in ''VideoGame/{{Portal}}''. See my WMG entry for that game. It includes links to ''The Clone, The Cube and the Construct''.)

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\nBruno de Figueiredo, in his classic [[http://dieubussy.web.simplesnet.pt/SomeBirds.pdf Some Birds Aren't Meant to Be Caged]] essay on ''{{Ico}}'', comments that the one piece of Ico's escape that's out of his control is the opening of his sarcophagus. From that initial break break, all else follows.

Presuming that event was random fortune is possible, but a weak cliche in a game that's all about ''well-done'' cliches. (Just as falling back on ''{{AIIsACrapshoot}}'' is a weak way to explain [=GLaDOS=]' mental state in ''VideoGame/{{Portal}}''. See my WMG entry for that game. It includes links to ''The Clone, The Cube Cube, and the Construct''.)










Going by the dream sequence after Ico's incarceration Yorda wasn't even created until Ico was placed in the sarcophagus.

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Going by the dream sequence after Ico's incarceration incarceration, Yorda wasn't even created until Ico was placed in the sarcophagus.



The Castle's immense physical plant is on the verge of ruin. There are no servants or occupants to be served. In its current state it's merely a self-imposed prison of isolation for the Queen. If her long-planned transference to a physical body involves any weakness whatsover, however temporary, the Castle will fall to its own structural failures, or outside predators.

Note that Ico's sarcophagus was the sole remaining unoccupied. The current phase of the Castle's existence is coming to an end. Not a random one, but a long-planned and long forseen end.

Even if the Queen in Yorda's body has immediate full power and consciousness, why remain in isolation in an empty castle falling to ruin? Instead the Queen will get out and enjoy life. The best way to do this is with a new start that loses all contact with any taint associated with the Castle in the Mists and its Queen.

If she abandons all history with the Castle and its dark minions, then the Queen will need a new protector. One that's shown determination and cunning as well as dedication to protecting Yorda.

Ico's relationship with Yorda is carefully managed. Starting with the dream of the cage, to a limited path to finding her. Freeing her is the only step he can take after findin her. Protecting and shepherding her is vital to continuing in the Castle. He shows determination and skill to bring her to the main gate, where the testing is intensified. The door to freedom is slammed in his face. He's warned off, his mettle spurred by being told he's unworthy of Yorda.

to:

The Castle's immense physical plant is on the verge of ruin. There are no servants or occupants to be served. In its current state it's merely a self-imposed prison of isolation for the Queen. If her long-planned transference to a physical body involves any weakness whatsover, however temporary, the Castle will fall to its own structural failures, or outside predators.

Note that Ico's sarcophagus was the sole remaining unoccupied. The current phase of the Castle's existence is coming to an end. Not a random one, but a long-planned and long forseen end.

long-forseen end.

Even if the Queen in Yorda's body has immediate full power and consciousness, why remain in isolation in an empty castle falling to ruin? Instead the Queen will get out and enjoy life. The best way to do this is with a new start that loses all contact with any taint associated with the Castle in the Mists and its Queen.

If she abandons all history with the Castle and its dark minions, then the Queen will need a new protector. One that's shown determination and cunning as well as dedication to protecting Yorda.

Ico's relationship with Yorda is carefully managed. Starting with the dream of the cage, to a limited path to finding her. Freeing her is the only step he can take after findin finding her. Protecting and shepherding her is vital to continuing in the Castle. He shows determination and skill to bring her to the main gate, where the testing is intensified. The door to freedom is slammed in his face. He's warned off, his mettle spurred by being told he's unworthy of Yorda.



The Queen's final speech reveals all: "''Silence, boy. You're too late. My body has become too old and won't last much longer. But Yorda's going to grant me the power to be ressurrected. To be my spiritual vessel is the fulfillment of her destiny. When next her body wakes, Yorda will be no more. Now put down your sword and leave. That is what she would want you to do.''"

That last statement is simple truth. If Ico departs now Yorda will be spared her ultimate fate while the Queen finds a new champion.


to:

The Queen's final speech reveals all: "''Silence, boy. You're too late. My body has become too old and won't last much longer. But Yorda's going to grant me the power to be ressurrected.resurrected. To be my spiritual vessel is the fulfillment of her destiny. When next her body wakes, Yorda will be no more. Now put down your sword and leave. That is what she would want you to do.''"

That last statement is simple truth. If Ico departs now now, Yorda will be spared her ultimate fate while the Queen finds a new champion.

champion.



* This is unlikely to be true, but it's actually a bit interesting. Ico would make a pretty fantastic [[TheDragon Dragon]]. He's incredibly tough as a kid, so with a bit of training odds are he'd be a formidable warrior when he grows up. And with the way that his people sacrificed him, well... let's just say the if the Queen as Yorda ever got ideas to rebuild her kingdom it's likely that Ico would find it easy to side with what he perceives to be his one friend rather then a group that saw him as something to dispose of.

* I had a similar thought not long ago. Except, except the Queen was just a very lonely old witch trying to find a true friend. Yorda would be created when a new boy was tossed into the castle, and then used to test their willingness to think about others. However, none of them succeeded (either being selfish or failing), and their souls were made into the Smokemen to help create obstacles. Ico, however was the exception, and his compassion and loyalty to Yorda showed the Queen that there was, in fact, someone who could care for Yorda (her).


rajendra82 [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/367472-ico/50113482 posted]] "''JoveHack, I think you've been playing too much Metal Gear Solid 2. Your post game analysis of Ico being used in a champion simulator is already used in that game. If Ico was meant to strongly bond with the girl, why would she not be taught to speak in his language. Also why send Ico off alone in a boat if the awakened form was already the queen. And why go through all this trouble with the little horned boy champion. That big strong knight who go the magic sword at the beginning of the game would be a much better champion, so the queen should have used him for the execution instead. I am sorry, but your theory is too convoluted for this game.''"


to:

* This is unlikely to be true, but it's actually a bit interesting. Ico would make a pretty fantastic [[TheDragon Dragon]]. He's incredibly tough as a kid, so with a bit of training training, odds are he'd be a formidable warrior when he grows up. And with the way that his people sacrificed him, well... let's just say the if the Queen as Yorda ever got ideas to rebuild her kingdom kingdom, it's likely that Ico would find it easy to side with what he perceives to be his one friend rather then a group that saw him as something to dispose of.

* I had a similar thought not long ago. Except, except the Queen was just a very lonely old witch trying to find a true friend. Yorda would be created when a new boy was tossed into the castle, and then used to test their willingness to think about others. However, none of them succeeded (either being selfish or failing), and their souls were made into the Smokemen to help create obstacles. Ico, however was the exception, and his compassion and loyalty to Yorda showed the Queen that there was, in fact, someone who could care for Yorda (her).


(her).

rajendra82 [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/367472-ico/50113482 posted]] "''JoveHack, I think you've been playing too much Metal Gear Solid 2. Your post game analysis of Ico being used in a champion simulator is already used in that game. If Ico was meant to strongly bond with the girl, why would she not be taught to speak in his language. Also Also, why send Ico off alone in a boat if the awakened form was already the queen. And why go through all this trouble with the little horned boy champion. That big strong knight who go got the magic sword at the beginning of the game would be a much better champion, so the queen should have used him for the execution instead. I am sorry, but your theory is too convoluted for this game.''"

''"



* A big strong knight as conquering hero would attract more attention to the Queen as Yorda than she wants. Security through obscurity.

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* A big strong knight as a conquering hero would attract more attention to the Queen as Yorda than she wants. Security through obscurity.



* It's quite obvious that Yorda and the Queen are Dormin's descendants or pieces of Dormin, just look at Dormin in ShadowOfTheColossus and compare it to the Queen and Yorda in Ico.
** I think it's more likely that Ico is just a descendant of The Wanderer (Wander/Wanda), since he [[spoiler:ends up as a horned baby by the end of the game]]. The Queen, on her part, has been collecting Horned Boys all this time ([[spoiler:others descendants of The Wanderer]]) and absorving the dark power of them, thus why she has magic and looks like she does.

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* It's quite obvious that Yorda and the Queen are Dormin's descendants or pieces of Dormin, Dormin; just look at Dormin in ShadowOfTheColossus and compare it to the Queen and Yorda in Ico.
** I think it's more likely that Ico is just a descendant of The Wanderer (Wander/Wanda), since he [[spoiler:ends up as a horned baby by the end of the game]]. The Queen, on her part, has been collecting Horned Boys all this time ([[spoiler:others ([[spoiler:other descendants of The Wanderer]]) and absorving the absorbing their dark power of them, power, thus why she has magic and looks like she does.









23rd Mar '13 3:29:44 PM TokoWH
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[[WMG: [[spoiler: The beach Ico and Yorda wash up on in the ending is part of the [[ShadowOfTheColossus Forbidden Land]].]]]]

Besides the fact that [[spoiler: the beach can be found and explorered in ShadowOfTheColossus]], if the select screen from the UpdatedRerelease compilation is anything to go by, [[spoiler: the Forbidden Land]] and the Castle in the Mist aren't far off from each other... [[spoiler: Also notably, the silhouette' of the person on Agro on the ShadowOfTheColossus portion of the select screen has horns, something Wander wouldn't gain until near the end game. How Agro is still alive after all those years... Maybe Dormins magic kept her/him alive like in the 'Mono is the Shadow Queen' threoy. After all, s/he ''did'' survive a massive fall with her/his only injury being a sprained leg...]]
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