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[[WMG: Mystery Troll Girl is future!Vriska]]
The Beta Session kids and trolls are all going to age up 3 years before meeting the Alpha Session kids. Therefore, the present for the Alpha Session is the future for the Beta Session. So in Jake's dreambubble/void space/whatever, he's seeing Vriska, who died three years ago in his present, and thus looks different.
* Hairstyle has never been shown to change with aging.
** Trolls don't have fashion either. Is it really that shocking that she might get a haircut after hanging out with John for who knows how long and getting a new set of clothes and glasses?
*** ''Nobody'' in ''Homestuck'' has '''ever''' gotten a haircut. Hairstyle is kind of a DistinguishingMark, being consistent between infants to adults and between alternate universes.
*** Oddly enough, the same updates that Joss this WMG also Joss the haircut notion, since Meenah and Aranea have different haircuts from the Condesce and Mindfang. Due to how the Scratch works, they must have had identical haircuts as children, meaning someone did change.
*** That might be invalidated by the fact that their blood color and horns remain the same; something that for trolls is far more important.
* Jossed. She's a new troll named Aranea, and says she's Vriska's (and Terezi's) Ancestor.
This troper now has this idea of The Grand Highblood ruling Earth while The Condesce is in The Medium. Heck, he'd probably serve Lord English willingly, since English is his mirthful messiah.
* Makes sense to me. Maybe not other ancestors in particular being there, but Roxy had to get troll lingo from ''somewhere'', and someone has to be populating those red coral/knife cities. I was gonna guess mostly sea dwellers, but it could be the whole hemospectrum.
** There ''were'' no B2 trolls by the time the Condesce returned to Alternia. The Handmaid was the sole remaining survivor and the Condesce killed her. I understand that's why there's the indication of time travel, but we also know causes of death for many of the Ancestors. Sufferer, Summoner, Disciple, Dolorosa, Dualscar, Psiionic, and Redglare's deaths were all directly shown or mentioned, and there's no indication English could or did form a time travelling troll army, as to Alternians, he's basically their cultural personification of death.
*** Furthermore, and more on topic, the Condesce could easily have gathered genetic material and used it. She entered the Incipisphere for ''some'' reason; maybe it was to snag the ectobiology stations and make tons of wrigglers. Roxy also is implied to have picked up troll lingo not from any living trolls, but overhearing dreambubbles, given she and the AR alone use it and it baffles Dirk. There's also no indication the Red cities are inhabited! Remember Doc Scratch's apartment was surrounded by tons of buildings? Canonically there's seemingly nobody living in them, as unlike Midnight City, no indication is ever given that people live there.
*** Dirk wasn't necessarily baffled by his AR's use of "pail." We didn't get any of the conversation past the pun to see. The dreambubble theory is just one everyone came up with before we learned that they lived in a future that has at least one troll out in the open. There are other possibilities now.
*** Back to the Ancestors, while we do know the deaths of many of the Ancestors, the Grand Highblood was not one of them, and he'd at least ''fit'' as an underling of Death. Plus, there were whole legions of unseen trolls roaming their universe for centuries, so the Ancestors aren't the limit as to who could be "taken by Death."
*** The Vast Glub uttered by Feferi's lusus ensures the destruction of any troll not of her blood color. There's no evidence that Condescension's ability to extend life could save them from it- Psiioniic was killed by a combination of exhaustion and, the Vast Glub. Condesc was explicitly unable to save him, so there's no chance that Grand Highblood would have been able to survive it even if he was present on her ship. However, if somehow she was in possession of a matriorb or mothergrub, there's no reason to assume she could not have bred new trolls. I don't think this is likely however (where would she GET genetic material- assuming it's a reproductive fluid- besides herself, and I doubt based on her personality that she'd want a bunch of tyrian bloods roaming her planet) and it's extremely safe to assume that Condescension is the only remaining B2 troll besides the surviving players of sGrub.
* Jossed by Dirk.
[[WMG: The Alpha universe is what the Pre-Scratch Trolls would have earned if they hadn't failed, plus one Condesce.]]
Seeing as how Scratching the Alternian and Beta sessions both caused the ancestors/players to switch places, and that the new universe is supposed to be based at least to some degree on the players, then it seems plausible that the Troll Ancestors' reward would be a universe where the Beta Kids' Ancestors would be the player characters. The ghost trolls are the ghosts of the pre-scratch ancestors dropping by to see what they could have won, and the Pre-Scratch Condesence is just naturally crazy (going by Equius' comment about how Trolls tend to be more bloodthirsty the higher up on the hemospectrum they go, with Feferi being an extreme exception to the rule and their pre-Scratch Ancestors being in a more peaceful setting and thus likely to calmed/treated, possibly in a moirailish manner) and happens to like the idea of an alternate version of her being the wicked ruler of untold billions.
* Jossed via a misunderstanding of the Scratch. Ordinarily the only difference between a Scratched universe and it's pre-Scratch companion is the order the Ectobabies were sent in, and the resultant differences because of that. For instance, as you point out, pre-Scratch Alternia was likely peaceful because Feferi was Empress instead of the Condesce, and likewise the viciousness of the post-Scratch Alternia empire was in large part shaped by the Condesce, though Doc Scratch's influence shouldn't be discounted. The abnormal source of other differences on Alpha Earth is the Condesce. In all physical respects, the universes are basically identical.
[[WMG:Meenah's Master plan was to become royalty.]]
Probably an obvious one, but when Meenah mentions her plan working and that it probably had to do with the scratch; I got thinking. The troll's world was as peaceful as it was because Feferi was in power, and was willing to give up that power to bring harmony to their alien world, right? So what if Meenah wanted that power? To be the ruler of all trolls? Then the way she could've gotten that power, was by replacing Feferi as the Condence in that age. Since the scratch pretty much just switches the time location of the ancestors with that of the off-spring, maybe Meenah's master plan was to keep the caste system so she could be queen.
* Only Meenah would never be queen, only her alternate. When she says plan, she probably is referring to the Scratch. Remember, John and the Beta Kids pulled off the Scratch without even knowing what it did, only that it would reset and save the session. It's entirely possible the Pre-Scratch Trolls did the same thing, without knowing about the whole ectobaby switcheroo.
** Meenah doesn't have to know that. If she made a deal with Doc Scratch or English, she could be led to believe SHE, herself would become queen.
*** LE at least has never contacted anyone directly; it's not in his nature. Doc however might have tricked her. Aranea seems to suggest that while Meenah was a real pain in the rump, she wasn't outright evil though.
* Jossed: In fact the opposite is true, the reason why Meenah played the game in the first place was to AVOID becoming ruler.
The Beta Session kids and trolls are all going to age up 3 years before meeting the Alpha Session kids. Therefore, the present for the Alpha Session is the future for the Beta Session. So in Jake's dreambubble/void space/whatever, he's seeing Vriska, who died three years ago in his present, and thus looks different.
* Hairstyle has never been shown to change with aging.
** Trolls don't have fashion either. Is it really that shocking that she might get a haircut after hanging out with John for who knows how long and getting a new set of clothes and glasses?
*** ''Nobody'' in ''Homestuck'' has '''ever''' gotten a haircut. Hairstyle is kind of a DistinguishingMark, being consistent between infants to adults and between alternate universes.
*** Oddly enough, the same updates that Joss this WMG also Joss the haircut notion, since Meenah and Aranea have different haircuts from the Condesce and Mindfang. Due to how the Scratch works, they must have had identical haircuts as children, meaning someone did change.
*** That might be invalidated by the fact that their blood color and horns remain the same; something that for trolls is far more important.
* Jossed. She's a new troll named Aranea, and says she's Vriska's (and Terezi's) Ancestor.
This troper now has this idea of The Grand Highblood ruling Earth while The Condesce is in The Medium. Heck, he'd probably serve Lord English willingly, since English is his mirthful messiah.
* Makes sense to me. Maybe not other ancestors in particular being there, but Roxy had to get troll lingo from ''somewhere'', and someone has to be populating those red coral/knife cities. I was gonna guess mostly sea dwellers, but it could be the whole hemospectrum.
** There ''were'' no B2 trolls by the time the Condesce returned to Alternia. The Handmaid was the sole remaining survivor and the Condesce killed her. I understand that's why there's the indication of time travel, but we also know causes of death for many of the Ancestors. Sufferer, Summoner, Disciple, Dolorosa, Dualscar, Psiionic, and Redglare's deaths were all directly shown or mentioned, and there's no indication English could or did form a time travelling troll army, as to Alternians, he's basically their cultural personification of death.
*** Furthermore, and more on topic, the Condesce could easily have gathered genetic material and used it. She entered the Incipisphere for ''some'' reason; maybe it was to snag the ectobiology stations and make tons of wrigglers. Roxy also is implied to have picked up troll lingo not from any living trolls, but overhearing dreambubbles, given she and the AR alone use it and it baffles Dirk. There's also no indication the Red cities are inhabited! Remember Doc Scratch's apartment was surrounded by tons of buildings? Canonically there's seemingly nobody living in them, as unlike Midnight City, no indication is ever given that people live there.
*** Dirk wasn't necessarily baffled by his AR's use of "pail." We didn't get any of the conversation past the pun to see. The dreambubble theory is just one everyone came up with before we learned that they lived in a future that has at least one troll out in the open. There are other possibilities now.
*** Back to the Ancestors, while we do know the deaths of many of the Ancestors, the Grand Highblood was not one of them, and he'd at least ''fit'' as an underling of Death. Plus, there were whole legions of unseen trolls roaming their universe for centuries, so the Ancestors aren't the limit as to who could be "taken by Death."
*** The Vast Glub uttered by Feferi's lusus ensures the destruction of any troll not of her blood color. There's no evidence that Condescension's ability to extend life could save them from it- Psiioniic was killed by a combination of exhaustion and, the Vast Glub. Condesc was explicitly unable to save him, so there's no chance that Grand Highblood would have been able to survive it even if he was present on her ship. However, if somehow she was in possession of a matriorb or mothergrub, there's no reason to assume she could not have bred new trolls. I don't think this is likely however (where would she GET genetic material- assuming it's a reproductive fluid- besides herself, and I doubt based on her personality that she'd want a bunch of tyrian bloods roaming her planet) and it's extremely safe to assume that Condescension is the only remaining B2 troll besides the surviving players of sGrub.
* Jossed by Dirk.
[[WMG: The Alpha universe is what the Pre-Scratch Trolls would have earned if they hadn't failed, plus one Condesce.]]
Seeing as how Scratching the Alternian and Beta sessions both caused the ancestors/players to switch places, and that the new universe is supposed to be based at least to some degree on the players, then it seems plausible that the Troll Ancestors' reward would be a universe where the Beta Kids' Ancestors would be the player characters. The ghost trolls are the ghosts of the pre-scratch ancestors dropping by to see what they could have won, and the Pre-Scratch Condesence is just naturally crazy (going by Equius' comment about how Trolls tend to be more bloodthirsty the higher up on the hemospectrum they go, with Feferi being an extreme exception to the rule and their pre-Scratch Ancestors being in a more peaceful setting and thus likely to calmed/treated, possibly in a moirailish manner) and happens to like the idea of an alternate version of her being the wicked ruler of untold billions.
* Jossed via a misunderstanding of the Scratch. Ordinarily the only difference between a Scratched universe and it's pre-Scratch companion is the order the Ectobabies were sent in, and the resultant differences because of that. For instance, as you point out, pre-Scratch Alternia was likely peaceful because Feferi was Empress instead of the Condesce, and likewise the viciousness of the post-Scratch Alternia empire was in large part shaped by the Condesce, though Doc Scratch's influence shouldn't be discounted. The abnormal source of other differences on Alpha Earth is the Condesce. In all physical respects, the universes are basically identical.
[[WMG:Meenah's Master plan was to become royalty.]]
Probably an obvious one, but when Meenah mentions her plan working and that it probably had to do with the scratch; I got thinking. The troll's world was as peaceful as it was because Feferi was in power, and was willing to give up that power to bring harmony to their alien world, right? So what if Meenah wanted that power? To be the ruler of all trolls? Then the way she could've gotten that power, was by replacing Feferi as the Condence in that age. Since the scratch pretty much just switches the time location of the ancestors with that of the off-spring, maybe Meenah's master plan was to keep the caste system so she could be queen.
* Only Meenah would never be queen, only her alternate. When she says plan, she probably is referring to the Scratch. Remember, John and the Beta Kids pulled off the Scratch without even knowing what it did, only that it would reset and save the session. It's entirely possible the Pre-Scratch Trolls did the same thing, without knowing about the whole ectobaby switcheroo.
** Meenah doesn't have to know that. If she made a deal with Doc Scratch or English, she could be led to believe SHE, herself would become queen.
*** LE at least has never contacted anyone directly; it's not in his nature. Doc however might have tricked her. Aranea seems to suggest that while Meenah was a real pain in the rump, she wasn't outright evil though.
* Jossed: In fact the opposite is true, the reason why Meenah played the game in the first place was to AVOID becoming ruler.
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[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
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Putting Troll Theories from Jossed 1 into here.
[[WMG: The Trolls' society somehow evolved from the society the kids built after the events of Homestuck.]]
Or at least some society that had previous experience with Sburb.
As of this writing, I am currently at the beginning of act 5; namely the page that I am about to describe. When cG steps outside and we see the exterior of his house for the first time, it is eerily reminiscent of the bizarre constructs the kids' houses have become after a bit of Sburb-facilitated shenanigans. But what piques my interest more is this paragraph on that very page:
--->"It's almost as if [The Trolls] have placed great cultural importance on teaching children to become architecturally adept while very young. It has been this way since ancient times. No one seems to know why that is."
It seems like the Trolls’ culture, or possibly Alternia’s as a whole, is designed to prepare the Trolls for a session of Sburb, which would only be feasible if the Trolls or their predecessors had previous experience with the game.
* Well, the kids can't have preceded them chronologically, since the events of Act 5 take place long before Earth even existed. However, they ''could'' have shaped their culture around Rose's GameFAQs guide, which is currently being broadcast across ''all of space '''and time.'''''
** I'm pretty sure that with all the stuff the series pulls with time travel, temporal placement means next to nothing.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: The lowest blood rank is red. Hence, this is why the Trolls show contempt for humans.]]
The Trolls blood seems to be ranked in order of when their star sign occurs in the year, theefore making AA the lowest ranked Troll. We have seen that Tarvos's blood is the same colour as his text, and so Aradia's blood is probably red like that of humans. Also, Aradia's lusus is probably killed by [=CuttlefishCuller.=]
* CT seems to be in cahoots with Aradia. I doubt he'd associate that closely with the lowest class, so she probably isn't. (EDIT: Never mind, he refers clearly to someone who has the best of manners despite the worst possible blood, so he probably does mean Aradia.)
* Jossed. The contempt the trolls show for the humans is less because of the color of their blood (at least Karkat doesn't have this excuse), but rather because of how stupid the Kids behave in their opinion.
* Confirmed actually, at least in the case of their initial confrontations. Such as Equius and Dave's or Rose and Eridan. They assume their text color is their blood though, not assuming it's red constantly.
[[WMG: Troll gender is purely psychological and based off their Lusus.]]
Because there is no way they can ALL donate their genetic material to a mother grub as described and not be the same sex...
* Alternatively, the troll species has 3 genders, with the grub-queen being a third gender.
** Unlikely, since the Mother Grub is a special sort of lusus (gA's is one).
*** Her's is a ''Virgin'' Mother grub.
* It would certainly explain why bisexuality is the norm--troll gender has nothing to do with reproductive equipment, and being straight, gay, or lesbian is the equivalent of only preferring, say, blonde hair.
* Jossed: Trolls do have a biological gender that's innate.
[[WMG: It Was Earth All Along]]
Or, more specifically, Alternia is Earth after the Exiles from the kids' session have reestablished it. The ruins that [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004032 Aradia desecrates]] look strangely similar to the ones on [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002980 Jade's island]]. [[IncrediblyLamePun Alternatively]], Alternia could be a parallel Earth due to the different states of decay in both sets of ruins.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Dropping typing quirks is a trait only purple bloods have access to]]
Eridan, Feferi, and Gamzee are the only ones we've seen drop their quirks. (Karkat is seen imitating Feferi's quirk in Alterniabound, but he's a mutant.)
* Nepeta said perfect once. Sorry.
** Perhaps dropping their typing quirks unintentionally is somewhat of the troll version of a typo?
* Aradia drops her quirks at one point.
** Which leads to a bit of fridge brilliance: she's a red blood put into a robot that's a blue blood. What do red and blue put together equal?
* This is officially Jossed. Any of the trolls can drop it, they just don't feel like it.
[[WMG: [=YOUR HUM4N C4T3GOR13S OF S3XU4L PR3F3R3NC3 4ND 1D3NT1TY F1LL M3 W1TH N4US3A 4ND P1TY=]]]
The burden of trollish reproduction is outsourced on the mother grub creature. None of the trolls are going to be incubating tiny pink embryos inside their torsos[[note]][=YOUR HUM4N R3PRODUCT1V3 CYCL3 F1LLS M3 W1TH N4US3A 4ND LO4TH1NG=][[/note]]. A one-from-column-A-and-column-B gender pairing isn't necessary for reproduction.
In fact, because of the cast of peripubescent trolls and because of the artstyle, there's no evidence trolls have primary or secondary sexual characteristics as humans would recognise them. In the Alternian language, 'female' might be shorthand for 'prefers the relative comfort and freedom of wearing a skirt.'
* [[CompletelyMissingThePoint But, Vriska wears pants...]]
* The fact that the Trolls don't even have a concept of 'homosexuality' makes sense with this.
** One explanation for this is because, if I correctly recall the ways in which troll romance is weird, the pairings that contribute their genetic material do so to a large amount of incestuous slurry. (And no, this theory is not solely an excuse to use that phrase.) Theoretically, it wouldn't matter what the sex of trolls involved when the filial pails get passed around, especially because Andrew hasn't really extrapolated on that in terms of differences from human concepts of "male" or "female". (Probably because he agrees that the job of coming up with genitalia for your alien race should be left to the musclebeast artists.)
*** And oh, [[{{Squick}} how it has been]].
* WordOfGod is that Trolls have vestigial genders. They are basically a post gender society. Homosexuality does exist, but it's basically the equivalent of a fetish.
[[WMG: The trolls are several inches/feet/yards/miles taller/shorter than the kids.]]
It's not like we've seen them side by side. The trolls have only been enxt to things that presumably would be the same size as them.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004205 Karkat is the same height as Jack]]. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003041 Jack is about half the size of Dad]]. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=001989 John is also about half the size of Dad]]. Therefore, they are pretty much the same. There have been a few references to Karkat being short, so they probably are a bit taller on average than the kids, but not by much.
** But that implies the size of Sburb remains constant, and doesn't change to suit the size of the players.
* Also, Crosbytop.
[[WMG: The explanation of Troll reproduction vastly simplified the mechanics of inheritance]]
Okay, so, [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004296 this]] makes me feel like Psycho Mantis in TheLastDaysOfFOXHOUND, even moreso than I did in that pointless rant aways above. (Don't read it, it's pointless.) Anyway, my current guess as to how to get that explanation to satisfy me... Most multicellular life on Alternia is a colonial organism composed of multiple symbiotic species' gametophyte stages. (Here's the silly bit): when the cells undergo reproductive mitosis, a combination of physical and psychic connection means that each gametophyte has some sort of... sympathetic resonance with the mind of its parent colony. The stronger the feelings between each parent in a pair, the more... something... the resulting sporophyte of each species. Point is, that increases reproductive fitness in the context of the Matriorb. Anyway, after that silliness is done, and the sporophytes of each species compete in the matriorb, the most fit undergo meiosis, and the resulting gametophyte cells form the appropriate colonies. (Given the signaling that pretty much all multicellular life performs with its symbiotic bacteria, it's not too surprising if something like that could actually work.) If true, this has the side-effect of giving Alternian life something very close to LEGOGenetics.
* Let's just say no. Mother Grubs are a symbiotic species with the Trolls and it's hard to draw the line between them, but trolls used to reproduce similarly to humans.
[[WMG: The Trolls aren't all connected, and they aren't all going to be helpful]]
So far we've only seen three out of the expected 12. When Spade Slicks gets to the screen where he talks to CG the screens are seperated into groups of 3. From CG's talks with John it seems like they're all playing the same game. Only 2 out of three trolls have started to act at least helpful to John, Jade, Rose and Dave so maybe we haven't seen the last member of CG's team. The third member will likely try to be begrudgenling friendly to our heroes.
* One can argue over the "helpful" part, otherwise jossed.
[[WMG: The Trolls fail at everything they do, which will soon become advantageous.]]
The Trolls are ''aware'' of this fact, and sincerely trying to help the kids by being [[SourSupporter Sour Supporters]]. Just some... okay most of them aren't really getting the hang of it, due to collectively jumping up and down the timeline to throw in their two cents' worth. Or otherwise trying to off the kids by being [[FriendlyEnemy Friendly Enemies]], in which case gC's the only one on the ball. Not entirely sure yet. They could even be working at cross-purposes.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: The trolls are products of this damaged future.]]
This explains why trollish movie titles are plot synposes, and why troll fashion runs as far as various shades of grey, and why the the trolls seethe with poorly-concealed jealousy of Earth culture. The lights of Skaia was dimmed or extinguished, and the universe is suffering for it.
* Jossed - the kids are products of the trolls' session, not the other way around.
[[WMG: The troll Blue Team is evil.]]
I don't mean [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain lovable evil]] like the trolls we know already. I mean proper antagonistists.
Here's what we know about the two teams at present.
Red: huge idiot bluh bluh Karkat, plushie-executing nutjob Terezi, lovable losers Gamzee, Tavros and aC, and gA, who seems pleasant enough, ChainsawGood notwithstanding.
Blue: Sollux (nice guy who wants nothing to do with this madness), incredible douchebag aG, creepy misanthrobopist cT, the enigmatic cC and cA, and... [[NightmareFuelStationAttendant aA]].
The only two who don't match up to this scheme are Sollux and Terezi. And the two teams do seem to be working together in the future, judging from the troll logs and what cT did for Tavros, so this may be entirely off-mark. I guess we'll be seeing pretty soon.
* There's a certain amount of speculation that aG is, quite literally, Tavros' [[TheRival rival]] in the [[strike:Pokemon]] Fiduspawn sense of the word. Following this through, cA could be Gamzee's rival (in terms of the whole LAND DWELLERS/SEA DWELLERS/accidentally ejected Faygo bottles thing) and Sollux could be Karkat's (in terms of programming). Fitting the others in is trickier, but hey.
** Then there's the other theory, spawned by the Red frog temple missing its Derse and the Blue one missing its Prospit, that the Red team are the Prospit trolls and the Blue team are the Derse trolls. Seems a little odd to make Karkat a Prospitian, but hey, if Terezi can be one...
** Whoa holy shit. Even if the Blue Team isn't antagonistic, it definitely has at least one bastard in its ranks (aG, ''holy shit'' aG). Adding to that, there's also cT's obsession with [[ANaziByAnyOtherName blood hierarchy]] and his creepy controlling relationship with Nepeta. Adding to that... look at the picture of poor Gamzee's dead lusus. Does it look like it was wounded to you? All while cA expresses his hatred of land-dwellers. WHAT A COINCIDENCE
* Jossed: Vriska is on the Red Team anyways.
[[WMG:The Trolls are just emphasis's on parts of the main character's personalities.]]
Jade:
* cuttlefishCuller represents her Enthusiasm and kindness. She is what mainly shows when other characters interact with her.
* Nepeta Represents what she will never do, but what she considers doing.
* Kanaya represents her subconscious. This is what she does unwittingly, and how her enviroment makes her react.
Rose:
* Karkat represents her subconscious. This is what she behaves like unwittingly, and how others makes her react.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: In the troll's session, The Gods of the Furthest Ring are The Felt.]]
Going by the previous theory, this would also make them a previous group of Sburb/Sgrub/whatever players. This would explain why they don't look like anyone else in Homestuck. Also, Doc Scratch is there to facilitate Alternia's ultimate purpose. If The Felt made Alternia, they made it with the intent of summoning their boss.
* Jossed. The Furthest Ring connects all sessions, so there's no individual instance of it for each session. It's why Feferi's still able to visit Jade in her dreams.
[[WMG: The few troll players who apparently don't have any type of mutation are the clone-parents of the others.]]
All of their paradox ghost slime was then mixed into an incestuous slurry, which spewed out a load of mutants because troll biology is designed so the young are meant to be created drawing on the traits of billions of troll, not just a small handful.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: The Trolls fail at everything they do, which will soon become advantageous.]]
They tried trolling the kids. [[FriendlyEnemy Didn't work out.]] Then they actually did try helping the kids. [[BadFuture Didn't work out.]] However, the kids won't realize that was accidental and will be beyond angry with the trolls, who will respond by trying to more directly sabotage them. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Won't work out.]]
* This has played out to some extent already. WordOfGod confirmed gallowsCalibrator intended to get John killed from the start. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Her manipulation has instead aided three of the kids in this timeline.]] If the other trolls start following suit and try to get the kids killed, this may play out.
[[WMG: Karkat and Gamzee's [[VitriolicBestBuds one-sided relationship]] may be a case of FridgeBrilliance.]]
In the WesternZodiac. Cancer is opposite (and therefore in conflict with) Capricorn. As Karkat has the former sign and Gamzee the latter, this may explain why their relationship is the way it is. If any of the following conflicts come up as well, this theory may yet hold:
* apocalypseArisen (Aries) vs. gallowsCalibrator (Libra)
** They were shown to be pretty good friends, and Aradia's death drove Terezi to try and murder Vriska. However after that, they've not interacted at all.
* adiosToreador (Taurus) vs. arachnidsGrip (Scorpio) (may act as a counter to Dave and Bro, since aT has already been established as Dave's foil, and Scorpio is notorious for its sexual implications, just like Bro is for his porno puppets.)
** aG is the one who crippled Tavros/aT.
* twinArmageddons (Gemini) vs. centaursTesticle (Sagittarius)
** They are both in some form of TriangRelations with Aradia/AA: Equius/CT secretly pines after Aradia, and at the very least, Aradia has a thing for Sollux/TA.
* arsenicCatnip (Leo) vs. caligulasAquarium (Aquarius)
** A popular ship, although Nepeta denies it.
* grimAuxiliatrix (Virgo) vs. cuttlefishCuller (Pisces)
** Cuttlefish in a sense, and being the OnlySaneMan of the teams.
So far we've only seen three out of the expected 12. When Spade Slicks gets to the screen where he talks to CG the screens are seperated into groups of 3. From CG's talks with John it seems like they're all playing the same game. Only 2 out of three trolls have started to act at least helpful to John, Jade, Rose and Dave so maybe we haven't seen the last member of CG's team. The third member will likely try to be begrudgenling friendly to our heroes.
* One can argue over the "helpful" part, otherwise jossed.
[[WMG: The Trolls fail at everything they do, which will soon become advantageous.]]
The Trolls are ''aware'' of this fact, and sincerely trying to help the kids by being [[SourSupporter Sour Supporters]]. Just some... okay most of them aren't really getting the hang of it, due to collectively jumping up and down the timeline to throw in their two cents' worth. Or otherwise trying to off the kids by being [[FriendlyEnemy Friendly Enemies]], in which case gC's the only one on the ball. Not entirely sure yet. They could even be working at cross-purposes.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: The trolls are products of this damaged future.]]
This explains why trollish movie titles are plot synposes, and why troll fashion runs as far as various shades of grey, and why the the trolls seethe with poorly-concealed jealousy of Earth culture. The lights of Skaia was dimmed or extinguished, and the universe is suffering for it.
* Jossed - the kids are products of the trolls' session, not the other way around.
[[WMG: The troll Blue Team is evil.]]
I don't mean [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain lovable evil]] like the trolls we know already. I mean proper antagonistists.
Here's what we know about the two teams at present.
Red: huge idiot bluh bluh Karkat, plushie-executing nutjob Terezi, lovable losers Gamzee, Tavros and aC, and gA, who seems pleasant enough, ChainsawGood notwithstanding.
Blue: Sollux (nice guy who wants nothing to do with this madness), incredible douchebag aG, creepy misanthrobopist cT, the enigmatic cC and cA, and... [[NightmareFuelStationAttendant aA]].
The only two who don't match up to this scheme are Sollux and Terezi. And the two teams do seem to be working together in the future, judging from the troll logs and what cT did for Tavros, so this may be entirely off-mark. I guess we'll be seeing pretty soon.
* There's a certain amount of speculation that aG is, quite literally, Tavros' [[TheRival rival]] in the [[strike:Pokemon]] Fiduspawn sense of the word. Following this through, cA could be Gamzee's rival (in terms of the whole LAND DWELLERS/SEA DWELLERS/accidentally ejected Faygo bottles thing) and Sollux could be Karkat's (in terms of programming). Fitting the others in is trickier, but hey.
** Then there's the other theory, spawned by the Red frog temple missing its Derse and the Blue one missing its Prospit, that the Red team are the Prospit trolls and the Blue team are the Derse trolls. Seems a little odd to make Karkat a Prospitian, but hey, if Terezi can be one...
** Whoa holy shit. Even if the Blue Team isn't antagonistic, it definitely has at least one bastard in its ranks (aG, ''holy shit'' aG). Adding to that, there's also cT's obsession with [[ANaziByAnyOtherName blood hierarchy]] and his creepy controlling relationship with Nepeta. Adding to that... look at the picture of poor Gamzee's dead lusus. Does it look like it was wounded to you? All while cA expresses his hatred of land-dwellers. WHAT A COINCIDENCE
* Jossed: Vriska is on the Red Team anyways.
[[WMG:The Trolls are just emphasis's on parts of the main character's personalities.]]
Jade:
* cuttlefishCuller represents her Enthusiasm and kindness. She is what mainly shows when other characters interact with her.
* Nepeta Represents what she will never do, but what she considers doing.
* Kanaya represents her subconscious. This is what she does unwittingly, and how her enviroment makes her react.
Rose:
* Karkat represents her subconscious. This is what she behaves like unwittingly, and how others makes her react.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: In the troll's session, The Gods of the Furthest Ring are The Felt.]]
Going by the previous theory, this would also make them a previous group of Sburb/Sgrub/whatever players. This would explain why they don't look like anyone else in Homestuck. Also, Doc Scratch is there to facilitate Alternia's ultimate purpose. If The Felt made Alternia, they made it with the intent of summoning their boss.
* Jossed. The Furthest Ring connects all sessions, so there's no individual instance of it for each session. It's why Feferi's still able to visit Jade in her dreams.
[[WMG: The few troll players who apparently don't have any type of mutation are the clone-parents of the others.]]
All of their paradox ghost slime was then mixed into an incestuous slurry, which spewed out a load of mutants because troll biology is designed so the young are meant to be created drawing on the traits of billions of troll, not just a small handful.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: The Trolls fail at everything they do, which will soon become advantageous.]]
They tried trolling the kids. [[FriendlyEnemy Didn't work out.]] Then they actually did try helping the kids. [[BadFuture Didn't work out.]] However, the kids won't realize that was accidental and will be beyond angry with the trolls, who will respond by trying to more directly sabotage them. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Won't work out.]]
* This has played out to some extent already. WordOfGod confirmed gallowsCalibrator intended to get John killed from the start. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Her manipulation has instead aided three of the kids in this timeline.]] If the other trolls start following suit and try to get the kids killed, this may play out.
[[WMG: Karkat and Gamzee's [[VitriolicBestBuds one-sided relationship]] may be a case of FridgeBrilliance.]]
In the WesternZodiac. Cancer is opposite (and therefore in conflict with) Capricorn. As Karkat has the former sign and Gamzee the latter, this may explain why their relationship is the way it is. If any of the following conflicts come up as well, this theory may yet hold:
* apocalypseArisen (Aries) vs. gallowsCalibrator (Libra)
** They were shown to be pretty good friends, and Aradia's death drove Terezi to try and murder Vriska. However after that, they've not interacted at all.
* adiosToreador (Taurus) vs. arachnidsGrip (Scorpio) (may act as a counter to Dave and Bro, since aT has already been established as Dave's foil, and Scorpio is notorious for its sexual implications, just like Bro is for his porno puppets.)
** aG is the one who crippled Tavros/aT.
* twinArmageddons (Gemini) vs. centaursTesticle (Sagittarius)
** They are both in some form of TriangRelations with Aradia/AA: Equius/CT secretly pines after Aradia, and at the very least, Aradia has a thing for Sollux/TA.
* arsenicCatnip (Leo) vs. caligulasAquarium (Aquarius)
** A popular ship, although Nepeta denies it.
* grimAuxiliatrix (Virgo) vs. cuttlefishCuller (Pisces)
** Cuttlefish in a sense, and being the OnlySaneMan of the teams.
Changed line(s) 241 (click to see context) from:
to:
[[WMG: Karkat is a member of the highest class of the blood caste system.]]
Andrew's said that Karkat's text et al are grey because "he's opted for blood anonymity". Between that and his open disgust with the aristocracy the obvious reason for it would be that he's a member of the lowest class and doesn't want anyone to know. But another reason could be that he's a DefectorFromDecadence who finds the other high class trolls he's known so loathsome that he'd rather pass as someone trying to hide how low-ranking they are than be associated with them. The reason the Thresh Prince is his hero is because he actually managed to get the blue-bloods he lived with to loosen up while Karkat just ended up giving up on the lot of them. But a few hints of his real rank occasionally show through, like in his insistance that he'd be the best leader.
* I'd like to second this notion. Though the way I figured, it was less a DefectorFromDecadence and more that he wanted to ''be'' a leader without having the role handed to him just because of his blood - Similar to NicolasCage, which makes it all the more fitting given Karkat's love of guilty-pleasure films.
* Jossed and inverted. He's so low he's considered a mutant. Which is whey he prefers an anonymous grey.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood color is, in fact, the highest blood in the blood caste system]]
Because that would be quite the plot twist. Also, then that would mean that, supposedly, the White Text Man is on a higher blood scale. That is, if he's a troll.
* It wouldn't really mean that, because we don't know what color Karkat's blood is. It's not gray.
[[WMG: His Honorable Tyranny is Karkat's ancestor]]
Because they are both candy red. Also, His Horrible Tyranny does seem to resemble a crab- he has shell-like plating and his horns kind of look like crab claws. Since Karkat's zodiac sign is Cancer, the Crab... yeah you get it.
* Jossed. His Honorable Tyranny has [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005654 black blood]], not candy red, and Karkat's ancestor apparently [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 led a failed sectarian revolution and was known as "the sufferer."]]
[[WMG: The Signless is a 13th Ophiuchus troll.]]
There is a possibility. Think about it.
* It's pretty clear that this was another ephitet for the Sufferer, whose 6ym9ols were [[{{Unperson}} erased from history]]. He cannot be Ophiuchus, because we know that he is Karkat's ancestor and thus is also Cancer.
[[WMG: The troll's blood is a magical effect, and Karkat is an [[AntiMagic Antimagic Being]].]]
If you took Karkat's candy-red (which would be the default mundane color) blood and carried it, say, 15-30 feet away from him, it'd turn an olive color, as per his placement. Conversley, If you placed any other troll's blood (even Equius') near Karkat, It would become candy-red until taken away.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005284 Jossed.]]
[[WMG: Karkat is colourless as far as the trolls are concerned because of how blood colour is determined.]]
Blood colour isn't genetic; it's influenced by the lusus that chooses you. ''All'' trolls are born with the bright red blood, like everything else on the planet, but after the trials it begins to change. The same might happen for sex and horn shape, among other things possibly: everyone is born sexless (or all the same sex, at least, like clownfish which are all born male) and the reason why [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003898 sexual dimorphism exists]] in their species is only because they grow to match their lusus.
Karkat's got a defect that makes him resistant to the physiological changes. If you cut open Crabdad he'd bleed an olive colour, which corresponds to Cancer's placement (in between Gemini which is yellow and Leo which is green) but Karkat still retains the red of an immature, unaligned troll despite going through the same stuff everyone else did and having a custodian, which is why it's so embarrassing. It's also why he's got small nubby horns that look absolutely nothing like anything Crabdad has--they're the "default" shape.
* I was going to point out that Terezi was almost never in direct contact with her lusus, due to the whole... not-born thing, and Kanaya raises her Mother Grub precisely because of her blood color. However, the lusus is assigned/found/whatever after the trials, so this fits. In addition, Terezi shows less similarity than the eight trolls (possibly seven, depending on Equius) we've seen besides her and Karkat. I think you might be onto something here. In any case, if this is true, I think it would be amusing if blood rank was more-or-less inversely correlated with some standard of performance on the trials.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood becomes temporarily invincible upon emerging from his body.]]
[[SuperMarioBros Thus why it was flashing different colors.]]
* Jossed
[[WMG: Karkat's is the noblest blood of all...or not]]
The trolls' blood caste system spans the entire spectrum of colour. The lowest we've seen is Aradia's red-orange, and the highest is cC's maroon. This would mean that Karkat's mutant candy-red blood is exactly at the turning point of the colour wheel. He's either the absolute lowest or the absolute highest. Either way it will make Equius' head explode.
* According to Andrew, Equius wouldn't care, and he'd just file Karkat under the "lowblood" heading because he's a racist asshole.
[[WMG: Karkat will at some point manipulate evolution on Earth.]]
Which is why vertebrates have mutant candy blood, why frogs exist on Earth, and why [[strike: trolls look so much like humans]] we look so much like trolls.
* Kanaya and Karkat had the most influence on our universe because they created B. Slick.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood level will be interpreted differently by everyone.]]
Specificaly, the lowest 5 bloods (and Gamzee) will think of him as the highest, while the highest five (and Sollux) will think of him as the lowest. All of the lowers are either friends, or would not care, while the upper portion is mainly the blue team. Notice that this leaves Terezi out. She thinks his blood is cherry.
* Nobody cares.
Andrew's said that Karkat's text et al are grey because "he's opted for blood anonymity". Between that and his open disgust with the aristocracy the obvious reason for it would be that he's a member of the lowest class and doesn't want anyone to know. But another reason could be that he's a DefectorFromDecadence who finds the other high class trolls he's known so loathsome that he'd rather pass as someone trying to hide how low-ranking they are than be associated with them. The reason the Thresh Prince is his hero is because he actually managed to get the blue-bloods he lived with to loosen up while Karkat just ended up giving up on the lot of them. But a few hints of his real rank occasionally show through, like in his insistance that he'd be the best leader.
* I'd like to second this notion. Though the way I figured, it was less a DefectorFromDecadence and more that he wanted to ''be'' a leader without having the role handed to him just because of his blood - Similar to NicolasCage, which makes it all the more fitting given Karkat's love of guilty-pleasure films.
* Jossed and inverted. He's so low he's considered a mutant. Which is whey he prefers an anonymous grey.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood color is, in fact, the highest blood in the blood caste system]]
Because that would be quite the plot twist. Also, then that would mean that, supposedly, the White Text Man is on a higher blood scale. That is, if he's a troll.
* It wouldn't really mean that, because we don't know what color Karkat's blood is. It's not gray.
[[WMG: His Honorable Tyranny is Karkat's ancestor]]
Because they are both candy red. Also, His Horrible Tyranny does seem to resemble a crab- he has shell-like plating and his horns kind of look like crab claws. Since Karkat's zodiac sign is Cancer, the Crab... yeah you get it.
* Jossed. His Honorable Tyranny has [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005654 black blood]], not candy red, and Karkat's ancestor apparently [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 led a failed sectarian revolution and was known as "the sufferer."]]
[[WMG: The Signless is a 13th Ophiuchus troll.]]
There is a possibility. Think about it.
* It's pretty clear that this was another ephitet for the Sufferer, whose 6ym9ols were [[{{Unperson}} erased from history]]. He cannot be Ophiuchus, because we know that he is Karkat's ancestor and thus is also Cancer.
[[WMG: The troll's blood is a magical effect, and Karkat is an [[AntiMagic Antimagic Being]].]]
If you took Karkat's candy-red (which would be the default mundane color) blood and carried it, say, 15-30 feet away from him, it'd turn an olive color, as per his placement. Conversley, If you placed any other troll's blood (even Equius') near Karkat, It would become candy-red until taken away.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005284 Jossed.]]
[[WMG: Karkat is colourless as far as the trolls are concerned because of how blood colour is determined.]]
Blood colour isn't genetic; it's influenced by the lusus that chooses you. ''All'' trolls are born with the bright red blood, like everything else on the planet, but after the trials it begins to change. The same might happen for sex and horn shape, among other things possibly: everyone is born sexless (or all the same sex, at least, like clownfish which are all born male) and the reason why [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003898 sexual dimorphism exists]] in their species is only because they grow to match their lusus.
Karkat's got a defect that makes him resistant to the physiological changes. If you cut open Crabdad he'd bleed an olive colour, which corresponds to Cancer's placement (in between Gemini which is yellow and Leo which is green) but Karkat still retains the red of an immature, unaligned troll despite going through the same stuff everyone else did and having a custodian, which is why it's so embarrassing. It's also why he's got small nubby horns that look absolutely nothing like anything Crabdad has--they're the "default" shape.
* I was going to point out that Terezi was almost never in direct contact with her lusus, due to the whole... not-born thing, and Kanaya raises her Mother Grub precisely because of her blood color. However, the lusus is assigned/found/whatever after the trials, so this fits. In addition, Terezi shows less similarity than the eight trolls (possibly seven, depending on Equius) we've seen besides her and Karkat. I think you might be onto something here. In any case, if this is true, I think it would be amusing if blood rank was more-or-less inversely correlated with some standard of performance on the trials.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood becomes temporarily invincible upon emerging from his body.]]
[[SuperMarioBros Thus why it was flashing different colors.]]
* Jossed
[[WMG: Karkat's is the noblest blood of all...or not]]
The trolls' blood caste system spans the entire spectrum of colour. The lowest we've seen is Aradia's red-orange, and the highest is cC's maroon. This would mean that Karkat's mutant candy-red blood is exactly at the turning point of the colour wheel. He's either the absolute lowest or the absolute highest. Either way it will make Equius' head explode.
* According to Andrew, Equius wouldn't care, and he'd just file Karkat under the "lowblood" heading because he's a racist asshole.
[[WMG: Karkat will at some point manipulate evolution on Earth.]]
Which is why vertebrates have mutant candy blood, why frogs exist on Earth, and why [[strike: trolls look so much like humans]] we look so much like trolls.
* Kanaya and Karkat had the most influence on our universe because they created B. Slick.
[[WMG: Karkat's blood level will be interpreted differently by everyone.]]
Specificaly, the lowest 5 bloods (and Gamzee) will think of him as the highest, while the highest five (and Sollux) will think of him as the lowest. All of the lowers are either friends, or would not care, while the upper portion is mainly the blue team. Notice that this leaves Terezi out. She thinks his blood is cherry.
* Nobody cares.
[[WMG: Aradia committed suicide]]
She considered herself already doomed and saw no reason to keep on "living". A conversation with a kid may have accidentally prompted it by making her realize what she was missing compared to when she was flesh and blood. Jossed, as her robot exploding was due to Aradia being reincarnated, so she's very much flesh and blood now.
[[WMG: AA's desecration of the blue frog temple foreshadows that the Skaia of the blue team's session will get destroyed.]]
Like the possible foreshadowing of the weathering of the earth frog temple and the kids session, the weathering of the red and blue frog temples on Alternia correspond with the trolls' sessions. Blue team's Skaia will be utterly decimated for some reason, and the only way to salvage the session is to somehow merge with the red team's session, thus creating the 12-troll session.
* Jossed. Both the blue and red teams share the same Skaia, since it has actually been only one single game session from the start.
[[WMG: Aradia is, was, and will be Skaia.]]
Somewhere it was mentioned that the frog temple survived not one, but two meteor impacts. As it's confirmed to represent the kid's SBURB session, it's safe to assume all frog temples are only damaged by internal mechanics; that is, temples are only damaged if their corresponding planetary body is damaged. And yet we clearly see OH MY GOD ARADIA IS SLICING APART THE TEMPLE!
This is because, as she fused with the frog head, she symbolically becomes Skaia. Or half of Skaia becomes her. And so she will arrange for the devastation to occur in chrono-disturbed synchronicity with her acts, after she's gotten to Skaia as a dreambot of course, and then THINGS WILL GET WEIRD. Blue loses all its planets but ultimately wins....
* Jossed.
[[WMG: AA had to give up all or some of her emotions in exchange for her power]]
Why else would she say she forgot what anger felt like?
* She was DEAD.
She considered herself already doomed and saw no reason to keep on "living". A conversation with a kid may have accidentally prompted it by making her realize what she was missing compared to when she was flesh and blood. Jossed, as her robot exploding was due to Aradia being reincarnated, so she's very much flesh and blood now.
[[WMG: AA's desecration of the blue frog temple foreshadows that the Skaia of the blue team's session will get destroyed.]]
Like the possible foreshadowing of the weathering of the earth frog temple and the kids session, the weathering of the red and blue frog temples on Alternia correspond with the trolls' sessions. Blue team's Skaia will be utterly decimated for some reason, and the only way to salvage the session is to somehow merge with the red team's session, thus creating the 12-troll session.
* Jossed. Both the blue and red teams share the same Skaia, since it has actually been only one single game session from the start.
[[WMG: Aradia is, was, and will be Skaia.]]
Somewhere it was mentioned that the frog temple survived not one, but two meteor impacts. As it's confirmed to represent the kid's SBURB session, it's safe to assume all frog temples are only damaged by internal mechanics; that is, temples are only damaged if their corresponding planetary body is damaged. And yet we clearly see OH MY GOD ARADIA IS SLICING APART THE TEMPLE!
This is because, as she fused with the frog head, she symbolically becomes Skaia. Or half of Skaia becomes her. And so she will arrange for the devastation to occur in chrono-disturbed synchronicity with her acts, after she's gotten to Skaia as a dreambot of course, and then THINGS WILL GET WEIRD. Blue loses all its planets but ultimately wins....
* Jossed.
[[WMG: AA had to give up all or some of her emotions in exchange for her power]]
Why else would she say she forgot what anger felt like?
* She was DEAD.
[[WMG: Tavros kissed the girl.]]
Recall the troll flash. Aradia beat the everloving shit out of Vriska, before leaving her with Tavros. Shortly later, Vriska's dream self wakes up. Later near the end of the act, Vriska is seen with her eye and arm fully restored, suggesting that she is living through her dream self, and her real self is dead, like Sollux. Suppose that Vriska died from Aradia's attack. Now, recall Sollux's untimely death. How exactly was his dream self awakened after his death? With a kiss.
* Jossed. Tavros was unable to kiss or mercy kill Vriska, leaving her to bleed out.
[[WMG: Tavros is coming back]]
Sollux said that everyone would die once, and that he and only he would die twice. Therefore, since Tavros lost his physical body, his Dreamself is still alive and usable.
* Jossed. Terezi tried and failed to revive him because his dreamself was already dead.
[[WMG: Tavros will possess Jadesprite and kiss Jade.]]
He will, perhaps after falling down the stairs, attempt to possess Becsprite to warn Jade and the humans about Vriska and steal a kiss. What Karkat was thinking about was the future he saw.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Tavros strongly hates Eridian]]
I've seen enough love triangles in my time, I wanna see a genuine hate triangle.
* But Tavros is incapable of hate!
** Tavros and Eridan never speak together in canon.
Recall the troll flash. Aradia beat the everloving shit out of Vriska, before leaving her with Tavros. Shortly later, Vriska's dream self wakes up. Later near the end of the act, Vriska is seen with her eye and arm fully restored, suggesting that she is living through her dream self, and her real self is dead, like Sollux. Suppose that Vriska died from Aradia's attack. Now, recall Sollux's untimely death. How exactly was his dream self awakened after his death? With a kiss.
* Jossed. Tavros was unable to kiss or mercy kill Vriska, leaving her to bleed out.
[[WMG: Tavros is coming back]]
Sollux said that everyone would die once, and that he and only he would die twice. Therefore, since Tavros lost his physical body, his Dreamself is still alive and usable.
* Jossed. Terezi tried and failed to revive him because his dreamself was already dead.
[[WMG: Tavros will possess Jadesprite and kiss Jade.]]
He will, perhaps after falling down the stairs, attempt to possess Becsprite to warn Jade and the humans about Vriska and steal a kiss. What Karkat was thinking about was the future he saw.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Tavros strongly hates Eridian]]
I've seen enough love triangles in my time, I wanna see a genuine hate triangle.
* But Tavros is incapable of hate!
** Tavros and Eridan never speak together in canon.
[[WMG: Holy crap, Sollux.]]
[[LordBritishPostulate Indestructible]] demon with [[TimeMaster time travel powers]] who has assembled followers and has some connection to a billiard-ball-marked server?
I do believe he just ''summoned Lord English.''
* And as a side-guess, Sburb is a game designed to ''kill'' Lord English. It... hasn't worked out so well, yet.
** 2x side guess combo: Sburb is a game designed BY Lord English
*** Possibly ForTheEvulz.
*** I assumed it's designed to destroy the universe so he could do whatever he wants with the destroyed universe afterwards.
*** Probably to [[StableTimeLoop let him out in the first place.]] After all... "THE DEMON IS ALREADY HERE."
* Jossed.
[[WMG: TA is from Prospit, AA is from Derse.]]
They both get visions from the future, but the nature behind them is a bit different. Derse gets the [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Horrors]]--- Err, the Dark Gods rather, to give them advice, while Prospit gets random visions of the past and future with no real frame to put them together in. ...Of course, the Dark Gods only tell them what they feel is vaguely relevant, and never tell a person the full story either.
* Jossed, Sollux has two dreamselves and Aradia has none.
* Confirmed in the sense that Aradia's dreamself was from Derse and Sollux keeps his Prospit dreamself.
[[WMG: Sollux is dead, dead, ''dead, dead'', '''dead forever''', '''''DEADDEADDEAD!!!!''''' '''And not coming back.''']]
The whole rest of the story is his dying dream.
* [[RunningGag THIS IS STUPID]]
** Incredibly.
[[WMG: Sollux will have his kernelsprite prototyped with himself.]]
In the same vein as Aradia, but pre-medium entry. It says that only one sprite will be dual-prototyped, but that could just be pre-medium. They have to learn that additional pre-medium prototypings empower foes more ''somehow''.
* Nope.
[[WMG: The "curse" that Sollux's code brings in [=SBurb=] itself.]]
What does Karkat, all his friends, and everyone they meet have in common? They're all involved in a game of [=SBurb=]. Since [=SBurb=] ''destroys your planet'', it could probably count as a curse! Also, it's called a '''Mobius Double Reacharound''' Virus, which the troll's [=SGrub=] game performs. This doesn't explain the lusus death, but that's in another paragraph, so it might not be actually related to Sollux's curse.
* The curse was a formality.
[[LordBritishPostulate Indestructible]] demon with [[TimeMaster time travel powers]] who has assembled followers and has some connection to a billiard-ball-marked server?
I do believe he just ''summoned Lord English.''
* And as a side-guess, Sburb is a game designed to ''kill'' Lord English. It... hasn't worked out so well, yet.
** 2x side guess combo: Sburb is a game designed BY Lord English
*** Possibly ForTheEvulz.
*** I assumed it's designed to destroy the universe so he could do whatever he wants with the destroyed universe afterwards.
*** Probably to [[StableTimeLoop let him out in the first place.]] After all... "THE DEMON IS ALREADY HERE."
* Jossed.
[[WMG: TA is from Prospit, AA is from Derse.]]
They both get visions from the future, but the nature behind them is a bit different. Derse gets the [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Horrors]]--- Err, the Dark Gods rather, to give them advice, while Prospit gets random visions of the past and future with no real frame to put them together in. ...Of course, the Dark Gods only tell them what they feel is vaguely relevant, and never tell a person the full story either.
* Jossed, Sollux has two dreamselves and Aradia has none.
* Confirmed in the sense that Aradia's dreamself was from Derse and Sollux keeps his Prospit dreamself.
[[WMG: Sollux is dead, dead, ''dead, dead'', '''dead forever''', '''''DEADDEADDEAD!!!!''''' '''And not coming back.''']]
The whole rest of the story is his dying dream.
* [[RunningGag THIS IS STUPID]]
** Incredibly.
[[WMG: Sollux will have his kernelsprite prototyped with himself.]]
In the same vein as Aradia, but pre-medium entry. It says that only one sprite will be dual-prototyped, but that could just be pre-medium. They have to learn that additional pre-medium prototypings empower foes more ''somehow''.
* Nope.
[[WMG: The "curse" that Sollux's code brings in [=SBurb=] itself.]]
What does Karkat, all his friends, and everyone they meet have in common? They're all involved in a game of [=SBurb=]. Since [=SBurb=] ''destroys your planet'', it could probably count as a curse! Also, it's called a '''Mobius Double Reacharound''' Virus, which the troll's [=SGrub=] game performs. This doesn't explain the lusus death, but that's in another paragraph, so it might not be actually related to Sollux's curse.
* The curse was a formality.
[[WMG: Nepeta will kill Gamzee]]
She's the most harmless-looking troll who's still alive, and it would be hilarious if she were the one to stop the chain of deaths after Equius failed. Plus I noticed something about claw marks on Gamzee on an earlier WMG.
* Oh so very, very '''Jossed.'''
[[WMG: The Shipping Wall will also include "spades" and "clubs" relationships.]]
This will then complete the whole card suit theme Nepeta's got going on there. Spades are likely to represent enemies (since they used to be ''swords'' in early versions of playing cards), while clubs will be neutral or unshippable (Even a shipper has his/her limits, right?).
* Jossed though, Andrew said Nepeta isn't interested in black ships.
She's the most harmless-looking troll who's still alive, and it would be hilarious if she were the one to stop the chain of deaths after Equius failed. Plus I noticed something about claw marks on Gamzee on an earlier WMG.
* Oh so very, very '''Jossed.'''
[[WMG: The Shipping Wall will also include "spades" and "clubs" relationships.]]
This will then complete the whole card suit theme Nepeta's got going on there. Spades are likely to represent enemies (since they used to be ''swords'' in early versions of playing cards), while clubs will be neutral or unshippable (Even a shipper has his/her limits, right?).
* Jossed though, Andrew said Nepeta isn't interested in black ships.
[[WMG: Kanaya is not the corpse to worry about.]]
The Horrorterrors have a way to use Feferi's corpse as a host or a conduit into the waking world.
* Jossed. Kanaya is indeed the corpse to worry about.
[[WMG: Kanaya is going to Kimesis for John. HARD.]]
Her current relationship with Rose is based on her belief that the first conversation she ever had with Rose was an attempt at aggression, that has caused her no end of strife. When she eventually discovers all of this strife has been caused by a single act of trolling by John, AND that he simultaneously embarrassed Rose seconds after their first conversation, in the most lewd of ways possible for Trolls, she will know unbridled rage towards him.
Completely, utterly unbridled.
* WordOfGay says Kanaya would never be interested in John.
The Horrorterrors have a way to use Feferi's corpse as a host or a conduit into the waking world.
* Jossed. Kanaya is indeed the corpse to worry about.
[[WMG: Kanaya is going to Kimesis for John. HARD.]]
Her current relationship with Rose is based on her belief that the first conversation she ever had with Rose was an attempt at aggression, that has caused her no end of strife. When she eventually discovers all of this strife has been caused by a single act of trolling by John, AND that he simultaneously embarrassed Rose seconds after their first conversation, in the most lewd of ways possible for Trolls, she will know unbridled rage towards him.
Completely, utterly unbridled.
* WordOfGay says Kanaya would never be interested in John.
[[WMG: Terezi leading John to his death was an attempt to MurderTheHypotenuse.]]
Terezi found out about Karkat's kismetic feelings toward John, but she wanted Karkat all to herself. So she lead John to his Denizen prematurely, knowing he'd get killed so that she could be the sole target of Karkat's hatred, which would have skyrocketed due to her machinations.
Granted, this troper isn't completely convinced Terezi is the jealous type, but figured it was still worth adding to the list.
* Possible, but I always pinned Terezi's feelings for Karkat as being more red (the glory of Troll biology is that it makes {{Polyamory}} obligatory).
** True. Still, troll romance ''is'' ridiculously complicated, and maybe Karkat, despite his knowledge, isn't that good at balancing his redrom and blackrom evenly. Whether Terezi has red feelings or black feelings, maybe Karkat just put too much of his general focus on John, instead of splitting it between Terezi and John. But these are still just theories.
* Maybe if she only decides to off John when she realizes that he's fundamentally a nice guy. As Karkat's kismesis, he wouldn't be in competition with her... but John's not much more capable of blackrom than Tavros is, I don't think, and caliginous feelings can often shift to flushed. Terezi might have been afraid that if John wouldn't reciprocate Karkat's hate, Karkat might begin to consider other attractions to John.
* Jossed by WordOfGod: She did it to try and fight fate.
[[WMG: The aftermath of [S] Flip...]]
Coin? What coin?
Surely you jest, Ms. Serket. The persecution sees no coin.
''SHE'S BLIND, REMEMBER?''
* Jossed.
** And what a shame that was...
[[WMG: Once the story shifts back to the kids' game, Terezi will become TheAtoner and desperately try to get John and the Daves to forgive her and let her help them as much as she can, to make up for it]]
Basically, she will [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004137 fulfill Vriska's prediction]] to the letter, because how can an author drop a speech like that and ''not'' have it come true? Rose and even moreso Jade don't really have any direct connection to her stunt, so they'll probably hold it agaisnt her only as much and as long as the boys do. John's way too trusting (he already followed her very next piece of advice) and doesn't really seem capable of holding a strong grudge, so while he's not going to forget it right away it'll probably not be completely insurmountable to get his forgiveness by the end of the story, though she'll still have to work at it for more than apathy. But the Daves, especially Future Dave, felt the sting of betrayal as sharply as it can be felt, and it'll probably be not until the very end that they trust or forgive her (even if [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003557 Davesprite is willing to talk to her nonhostile-ly, and even congratulate her]], that's not the same as forgiving. It's still huge evidence against this going exactly the way I see it though).
* Jossed.
Terezi found out about Karkat's kismetic feelings toward John, but she wanted Karkat all to herself. So she lead John to his Denizen prematurely, knowing he'd get killed so that she could be the sole target of Karkat's hatred, which would have skyrocketed due to her machinations.
Granted, this troper isn't completely convinced Terezi is the jealous type, but figured it was still worth adding to the list.
* Possible, but I always pinned Terezi's feelings for Karkat as being more red (the glory of Troll biology is that it makes {{Polyamory}} obligatory).
** True. Still, troll romance ''is'' ridiculously complicated, and maybe Karkat, despite his knowledge, isn't that good at balancing his redrom and blackrom evenly. Whether Terezi has red feelings or black feelings, maybe Karkat just put too much of his general focus on John, instead of splitting it between Terezi and John. But these are still just theories.
* Maybe if she only decides to off John when she realizes that he's fundamentally a nice guy. As Karkat's kismesis, he wouldn't be in competition with her... but John's not much more capable of blackrom than Tavros is, I don't think, and caliginous feelings can often shift to flushed. Terezi might have been afraid that if John wouldn't reciprocate Karkat's hate, Karkat might begin to consider other attractions to John.
* Jossed by WordOfGod: She did it to try and fight fate.
[[WMG: The aftermath of [S] Flip...]]
Coin? What coin?
Surely you jest, Ms. Serket. The persecution sees no coin.
''SHE'S BLIND, REMEMBER?''
* Jossed.
** And what a shame that was...
[[WMG: Once the story shifts back to the kids' game, Terezi will become TheAtoner and desperately try to get John and the Daves to forgive her and let her help them as much as she can, to make up for it]]
Basically, she will [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004137 fulfill Vriska's prediction]] to the letter, because how can an author drop a speech like that and ''not'' have it come true? Rose and even moreso Jade don't really have any direct connection to her stunt, so they'll probably hold it agaisnt her only as much and as long as the boys do. John's way too trusting (he already followed her very next piece of advice) and doesn't really seem capable of holding a strong grudge, so while he's not going to forget it right away it'll probably not be completely insurmountable to get his forgiveness by the end of the story, though she'll still have to work at it for more than apathy. But the Daves, especially Future Dave, felt the sting of betrayal as sharply as it can be felt, and it'll probably be not until the very end that they trust or forgive her (even if [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003557 Davesprite is willing to talk to her nonhostile-ly, and even congratulate her]], that's not the same as forgiving. It's still huge evidence against this going exactly the way I see it though).
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska mind-controlled Karkat into blinding Terezi.]]
Vriska's a one-trick pony. She couldn't mind-control Aradia, so she attacked Aradia with someone who was controllable. She can't mind-control Terezi, so it's reasonable to assume she would use the same method. It's even possible that Karkat's invitation for Terezi to come live in his lawnring was foreshadowing that Karkat lives close enough to her to walk to her tree and stab her eyes out.
* Alternatively, Vriska ''attempts'' to use the same trick twice. It fails when Karkat arrives at Terezi's hive and [[CurbStompBattle has the everloving crap beaten out of him]]. Terezi has just mentioned that she's capable of this, after all.
* Jossed in ''[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004478 [S] Make her pay]]'': Vriska blinded Terezi indirectly via mind-controlling Tarvos.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy a universe]]
[[TheFarmerAndTheViper The Scorpion And The Frog]]. The frog being the universe
* That would explain why the kids have a null session. And would totally be in line with Vriska's attitude.
** Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska will cause the death of Rose's realself]]
She's caused a good chunk of bad events so far, so why not add another one to the list?
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska will be a KarmaHoudini]]
Thus becoming the greatest troll in all of metafiction.
* But Hussie is a character in the comic, so if anything, he will be the greatest troll in all of metafiction for creating Vriska.
** AAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA...
* Jossed.
** [[CosmicRetcon Actually...]]
[[WMG: Vriska, no matter how much luck she [[LiquidAssets can steal]], is ''still'' going to get trashed by Bec Noir.]]
It's quite clear that she loves playing really high stakes, so what stakes could be higher than challenging someone who was prototyped with a First Guardian, killed a Guardian who could FlashStep and win duels with a puppet (and an alternate-future form of his charge who became a Sprite), and is just flat out murder-happy? Except that since he was prototyped with a RealityWarper, he could simply carve a bloody blue swath through Vriska before she could even try to steal his luck.
In other words, Vriska, by causing Bec Noir to be made and then having the audacity to try to defeat him, is pretty much asking for it.
* Moreover, it's going to get her outright killed. As Doc Scratch kind of predicted.
** Alternatively, Tavros will save her. He is the only one who cares enough to do so: the rest won't bother risking their lives for the douchebag.
** Jossed. She stood the best chance out of anyone shown yet and could've beaten him possibly.
[[WMG: Vriska is out to kill everybody.]]
She should have been able to tell that stopping John would have disastrous consequences, considering the whole "watch from any point on the timeline" thing. There is almost no way that she didn't know what she did would cause what happened. Plus, that face she made... did not look very pleasant whatsoever. As for why... Who knows? Maybe she decided a world without Nicholas Cage isn't worth living in, and wants to take everyone else down with her. Or maybe she's just a huge bitch. (bluh bluh)
* Confirmed insofar as stopping and killing John was completely deliberate. Not so much with the malicious intent.
** annnnnd Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska is able to give luck as well as take it away.]]
This explains why, in the Midnight Crew interlude (being the future of the troll-verse), Clover was so lucky despite Vriska already having All The Luck.
* Clover is not related to Vriska at all.
** Though it may have been implied in this [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005727 page]], where Doc Scratch describes Vriska of having the luck of Clover.
Vriska's a one-trick pony. She couldn't mind-control Aradia, so she attacked Aradia with someone who was controllable. She can't mind-control Terezi, so it's reasonable to assume she would use the same method. It's even possible that Karkat's invitation for Terezi to come live in his lawnring was foreshadowing that Karkat lives close enough to her to walk to her tree and stab her eyes out.
* Alternatively, Vriska ''attempts'' to use the same trick twice. It fails when Karkat arrives at Terezi's hive and [[CurbStompBattle has the everloving crap beaten out of him]]. Terezi has just mentioned that she's capable of this, after all.
* Jossed in ''[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004478 [S] Make her pay]]'': Vriska blinded Terezi indirectly via mind-controlling Tarvos.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy a universe]]
[[TheFarmerAndTheViper The Scorpion And The Frog]]. The frog being the universe
* That would explain why the kids have a null session. And would totally be in line with Vriska's attitude.
** Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska will cause the death of Rose's realself]]
She's caused a good chunk of bad events so far, so why not add another one to the list?
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska will be a KarmaHoudini]]
Thus becoming the greatest troll in all of metafiction.
* But Hussie is a character in the comic, so if anything, he will be the greatest troll in all of metafiction for creating Vriska.
** AAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA...
* Jossed.
** [[CosmicRetcon Actually...]]
[[WMG: Vriska, no matter how much luck she [[LiquidAssets can steal]], is ''still'' going to get trashed by Bec Noir.]]
It's quite clear that she loves playing really high stakes, so what stakes could be higher than challenging someone who was prototyped with a First Guardian, killed a Guardian who could FlashStep and win duels with a puppet (and an alternate-future form of his charge who became a Sprite), and is just flat out murder-happy? Except that since he was prototyped with a RealityWarper, he could simply carve a bloody blue swath through Vriska before she could even try to steal his luck.
In other words, Vriska, by causing Bec Noir to be made and then having the audacity to try to defeat him, is pretty much asking for it.
* Moreover, it's going to get her outright killed. As Doc Scratch kind of predicted.
** Alternatively, Tavros will save her. He is the only one who cares enough to do so: the rest won't bother risking their lives for the douchebag.
** Jossed. She stood the best chance out of anyone shown yet and could've beaten him possibly.
[[WMG: Vriska is out to kill everybody.]]
She should have been able to tell that stopping John would have disastrous consequences, considering the whole "watch from any point on the timeline" thing. There is almost no way that she didn't know what she did would cause what happened. Plus, that face she made... did not look very pleasant whatsoever. As for why... Who knows? Maybe she decided a world without Nicholas Cage isn't worth living in, and wants to take everyone else down with her. Or maybe she's just a huge bitch. (bluh bluh)
* Confirmed insofar as stopping and killing John was completely deliberate. Not so much with the malicious intent.
** annnnnd Jossed.
[[WMG: Vriska is able to give luck as well as take it away.]]
This explains why, in the Midnight Crew interlude (being the future of the troll-verse), Clover was so lucky despite Vriska already having All The Luck.
* Clover is not related to Vriska at all.
** Though it may have been implied in this [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005727 page]], where Doc Scratch describes Vriska of having the luck of Clover.
[[WMG: Equius will construct a new dream-bot for Jade]]
And the kids will utilize it to bring Jade to god-tier levels. Jade will become half-robot.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Equius is ''literally'' suffering from TestosteronePoisoning.]]
Or whatever the Troll equivalent is. His uncontrollable strength, mood swings, and er, hangups, are all the result of a dangerous hormone imbalance. Or a, uh, dangerous trollmone imbalance.
And the kids will utilize it to bring Jade to god-tier levels. Jade will become half-robot.
* Jossed.
[[WMG: Equius is ''literally'' suffering from TestosteronePoisoning.]]
Or whatever the Troll equivalent is. His uncontrollable strength, mood swings, and er, hangups, are all the result of a dangerous hormone imbalance. Or a, uh, dangerous trollmone imbalance.
[[WMG: Eridan will have the most character development of ''any'' character in Homestuck, more so than even the Kids.]]
He's the Aquarius troll. In astrology, Aquarius is ruled by Uranus, the planet of change and the unexpected. It seems only reasonable he'd grow out of his genocidal tendencies and start accepting trolls (and humans) for what they are eventually.
* If by character development you mean [[FaceHeelTurn joins the bad guy]], then yeah, confirmed.
** If by confirmed you mean Jossed.
He's the Aquarius troll. In astrology, Aquarius is ruled by Uranus, the planet of change and the unexpected. It seems only reasonable he'd grow out of his genocidal tendencies and start accepting trolls (and humans) for what they are eventually.
* If by character development you mean [[FaceHeelTurn joins the bad guy]], then yeah, confirmed.
** If by confirmed you mean Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's lusus will be killed...]]
...by being decapited when she enters the Medium. There has to be a maximum range to the area that can be taken through, and it would be pretty much impossible for a creature that HUGE to fit inside it. I don't recall it ever being said that a prototyping ''had'' to be done before entering, and Feferi could use something inanimate for the first prototyping anyway, like John did. Two reasons for this theory: One, it would be something of a reference to [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001026 this]]. Two, how else are they gonna kill that thing?
* Jossed (somewhere): if a player enters the session with an un-prototyped kernel the game becomes unwinnable, and the trolls ''did'' win before having their prize destroyed by Jack.
[[WMG: The Feferi Jade talked to in her second dream was actually Dream Feferi]]
From the afterlife she's probably able to communicate via Dream Bubbles due to her strong connection to the Noble Circle of Horrorterrors.
* Jossed, Feferi herself was killed not long after the death of her dreamself was shown, so the Feferi Jade was talking to was Feferi herself.
[[WMG: cuttlefishCuller is a mermaid.]]
The use of a trident and interacting with sealife without any form of breathing equipment whatsoever seems to point to this. Equius and Vriska's conversation hints at her being a sea dweller. Also, her sign is Pisces (the fish), which makes this all the more appropriate.
* She has gills, but that's about it.
...by being decapited when she enters the Medium. There has to be a maximum range to the area that can be taken through, and it would be pretty much impossible for a creature that HUGE to fit inside it. I don't recall it ever being said that a prototyping ''had'' to be done before entering, and Feferi could use something inanimate for the first prototyping anyway, like John did. Two reasons for this theory: One, it would be something of a reference to [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001026 this]]. Two, how else are they gonna kill that thing?
* Jossed (somewhere): if a player enters the session with an un-prototyped kernel the game becomes unwinnable, and the trolls ''did'' win before having their prize destroyed by Jack.
[[WMG: The Feferi Jade talked to in her second dream was actually Dream Feferi]]
From the afterlife she's probably able to communicate via Dream Bubbles due to her strong connection to the Noble Circle of Horrorterrors.
* Jossed, Feferi herself was killed not long after the death of her dreamself was shown, so the Feferi Jade was talking to was Feferi herself.
[[WMG: cuttlefishCuller is a mermaid.]]
The use of a trident and interacting with sealife without any form of breathing equipment whatsoever seems to point to this. Equius and Vriska's conversation hints at her being a sea dweller. Also, her sign is Pisces (the fish), which makes this all the more appropriate.
* She has gills, but that's about it.
Changed line(s) 459 (click to see context) from:
to:
[[WMG:Gamzee didn't actually forget his title.]]
He is the Bard of Fuck.
* This was a joke theory, but Jossed.
[[WMG:Gamzee is the Bard of Death.]]
Based on "==>Elsewhere..."
* And with the trolls dying one by one, he may be the last, smiling at the miracle of a new beginning as he joins the corpses that surround him at 0:00:00.
* Considering what just happened, this is very likely.
And Jossed.
[[WMG: Not only did Gamzee pose as Future Terezi and Future Karkat [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004529 here]], he actually meant what he posted as Future Karkat]]
He actually was (that is to say, will be) feeling physically ill, and posted about it on a random memo on the nearest available computer.
* Jossed apparently, Karkat and Terezi have had time to take care of that. Presumably it comes across because Karkat just beat the shit out of Gamzee.
[[WMG: Gamzee is cA]]
Or rather, Gamzee is a split personality of cA. Slime pies and faygo are most likely to blame for this.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003922]] -> [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003967]] ?????
** You see, that bottle got launched ''so hard'' it looped around the whole world. And Gamzee changed personas in the mean time. It was a mIrAcLe.
* Yeah jossed.
[[WMG: Gamzee is setting himself up as Dark Link to John's [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker Wind Waker]].]]
John's previous chumhandle was ghostyTrickster, and clowns are similar to tricksters. In [S] John: Rise Up, the music track is called "''Savior'' of the Waking World"; Gamzee is claiming to be the Mirthful Messiahs. Note, also, the mythological connection between Capricorn and Typheus: according to one tale, Pan threw Typheus into a river, and the parts that were submerged became fishlike, while the dry bits were goatlike.
* Jossed in that Gamzee has set himself up as a rival to ''Dave''.
[[WMG: Lord English will be summoned by Gamzee]]
[[strike: Ties in with the above theory of him being the Bard of Death]]. Okay, he isn't, nevermind.
* Jossed
He is the Bard of Fuck.
* This was a joke theory, but Jossed.
[[WMG:Gamzee is the Bard of Death.]]
Based on "==>Elsewhere..."
* And with the trolls dying one by one, he may be the last, smiling at the miracle of a new beginning as he joins the corpses that surround him at 0:00:00.
* Considering what just happened, this is very likely.
And Jossed.
[[WMG: Not only did Gamzee pose as Future Terezi and Future Karkat [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004529 here]], he actually meant what he posted as Future Karkat]]
He actually was (that is to say, will be) feeling physically ill, and posted about it on a random memo on the nearest available computer.
* Jossed apparently, Karkat and Terezi have had time to take care of that. Presumably it comes across because Karkat just beat the shit out of Gamzee.
[[WMG: Gamzee is cA]]
Or rather, Gamzee is a split personality of cA. Slime pies and faygo are most likely to blame for this.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003922]] -> [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003967]] ?????
** You see, that bottle got launched ''so hard'' it looped around the whole world. And Gamzee changed personas in the mean time. It was a mIrAcLe.
* Yeah jossed.
[[WMG: Gamzee is setting himself up as Dark Link to John's [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker Wind Waker]].]]
John's previous chumhandle was ghostyTrickster, and clowns are similar to tricksters. In [S] John: Rise Up, the music track is called "''Savior'' of the Waking World"; Gamzee is claiming to be the Mirthful Messiahs. Note, also, the mythological connection between Capricorn and Typheus: according to one tale, Pan threw Typheus into a river, and the parts that were submerged became fishlike, while the dry bits were goatlike.
* Jossed in that Gamzee has set himself up as a rival to ''Dave''.
[[WMG: Lord English will be summoned by Gamzee]]
[[strike: Ties in with the above theory of him being the Bard of Death]]. Okay, he isn't, nevermind.
* Jossed
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Vriska will confront Vampire Kanaya]]
It would be a great way of seeing if there was anything sympathetic left about Vriska's character.
* Confirmed.
Alternatively, we'll get a [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}}]] joke with Aradia.
* Oh, an it will happen on Valentine's Day. In the real world.
** Okay, the Valentine's Day part is Jossed, the former is... sort of confirmed, but it seems Kanaya is either AxCrazy or TheUnfettered.
* Jossed really. Vriska and Kanaya part ways without having really spoken about anything.
[[WMG: Vriska and Tavros were switched at birth...or something]]
Tavros, the second-lowest troll on the blood hierarchy, has no psychic powers, unlike Aradia and Sollux. The only other troll seen to have mind powers is Vriska, who's several steps up in the hierarchy. It's said [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004364 here]] that the lesser bloods are the ones that are the ones that have psychic powers. This might have something to do with their...unique relationship.
* Are you forgetting Tavros's psychic powers of cOMMUNION,?
** And Terezi's second sight? It's birth-inherent, she just had to lose her first sight to gain access to it. Though it could be argued that all the trolls have this power, since she accesses it through her awakened dream self.
* It says those of lower blood are more susceptible to psychic powers; they're more affected by them. It says nothing about them being the only ones to have such powers. I figured this is why they'd die first (they'd hear the lusus' voice well before anyone else would).
** [[WordOfGod Official]] word is that lower bloods are, in fact, more likely to have psychic powers than higher bloods-- Vriska is just a rare exception, and in fact, she would also be among the first to die in the event that Gl'bgolyb raised her voice.
It would be a great way of seeing if there was anything sympathetic left about Vriska's character.
* Confirmed.
Alternatively, we'll get a [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}}]] joke with Aradia.
* Oh, an it will happen on Valentine's Day. In the real world.
** Okay, the Valentine's Day part is Jossed, the former is... sort of confirmed, but it seems Kanaya is either AxCrazy or TheUnfettered.
* Jossed really. Vriska and Kanaya part ways without having really spoken about anything.
[[WMG: Vriska and Tavros were switched at birth...or something]]
Tavros, the second-lowest troll on the blood hierarchy, has no psychic powers, unlike Aradia and Sollux. The only other troll seen to have mind powers is Vriska, who's several steps up in the hierarchy. It's said [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004364 here]] that the lesser bloods are the ones that are the ones that have psychic powers. This might have something to do with their...unique relationship.
* Are you forgetting Tavros's psychic powers of cOMMUNION,?
** And Terezi's second sight? It's birth-inherent, she just had to lose her first sight to gain access to it. Though it could be argued that all the trolls have this power, since she accesses it through her awakened dream self.
* It says those of lower blood are more susceptible to psychic powers; they're more affected by them. It says nothing about them being the only ones to have such powers. I figured this is why they'd die first (they'd hear the lusus' voice well before anyone else would).
** [[WordOfGod Official]] word is that lower bloods are, in fact, more likely to have psychic powers than higher bloods-- Vriska is just a rare exception, and in fact, she would also be among the first to die in the event that Gl'bgolyb raised her voice.
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Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
[[folder: Beforus Trolls
to:
[[folder: Beforus TrollsTrolls]]
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Organization, in anticipation of so many Troll theories misplaced in other Jossed pages.
[[folder:Alternia, Biology and Ancestors]]
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their {{Famous Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions. This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Beforus Trolls
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
* Interestingly though, there are implications that part of the reason Beforus was the way it was was in fact partly because Feferi was the empress instead of Meenah, and while Ancestor!Karkat never became any sort of Sufferer, Kankri ''still'' found problems in the structure of Beforan society.
[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"]]
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The Post-Scratch Trolls as a Whole]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their {{Famous Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions. This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Beforus Trolls
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
* Interestingly though, there are implications that part of the reason Beforus was the way it was was in fact partly because Feferi was the empress instead of Meenah, and while Ancestor!Karkat never became any sort of Sufferer, Kankri ''still'' found problems in the structure of Beforan society.
[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"]]
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The Post-Scratch Trolls as a Whole]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
Deleted line(s) 26,163 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: Gamzee will revert back to his old self.]]
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
*** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn't be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004159 Little Advantage]]" with [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004167 disastrous results]] and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
[[WMG: Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: Aradia will take vengeance for Tavros.]]
Upon her ascension, she conveniently gained not only the emotions required to once again fully care of one of her best friends from back when she was alive, the emotions required to be distressed of his death, and desire to take vengeance for him just like she did before - but also the sufficient powers to stand up against the murderer, Vriska Serket.
** Aradia isn't planning anything of the sort, besides she knows Tavros isn't "dead" per se.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
*** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
*** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
*** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
*** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn't be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004159 Little Advantage]]" with [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004167 disastrous results]] and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
[[WMG: Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: Aradia will take vengeance for Tavros.]]
Upon her ascension, she conveniently gained not only the emotions required to once again fully care of one of her best friends from back when she was alive, the emotions required to be distressed of his death, and desire to take vengeance for him just like she did before - but also the sufficient powers to stand up against the murderer, Vriska Serket.
** Aradia isn't planning anything of the sort, besides she knows Tavros isn't "dead" per se.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
*** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
*** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
*** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
Changed line(s) 221,233 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.]]
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?
* Everyone's dead or doesn't care.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005263 Lower right hand corner of this page]].
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
*** The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
*** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
to:
Including all the ones with dead dreamselves and, in Tavros's case, dead realselves. IT WILL HAPPEN SOMEHOW.
* Not to spoil fandom or anything but that is highly unlikely and also impractical.
** Dave Strider is too cool for godtier. This fact is canon it was mentioned that Dave made a better hero of time than Aradia.
* Though Hussie has
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk
* Everyone's dead or doesn't care.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going
* As of the
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
***
** Though Gamzee
*** Turns out he just made the
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Karkat and the
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
*** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
Deleted line(s) 241,268 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their {{Famous Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions. This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
The cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.
* Nope. While the marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
After all, we didn't see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
*** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions. This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
The cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.
* Nope. While the marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
After all, we didn't see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
*** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
Deleted line(s) 273,306 (click to see context) :
[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
*** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
*** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
*** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
*** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
Deleted line(s) 323,369 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.]]
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
*** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
*** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, God tier Tavros that is from the future]]
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to stab her in order to prevent the BadFuture [[SelfDefeatingProphecy she had foreseen]], it was an IDidWhatIHadToDo / ShootTheDog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and to remain dead would be unjust.
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.]]
It's stated that Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Possibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.]]
She was the Leo troll, after all; also, puns of any kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
*** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
*** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, God tier Tavros that is from the future]]
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to stab her in order to prevent the BadFuture [[SelfDefeatingProphecy she had foreseen]], it was an IDidWhatIHadToDo / ShootTheDog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and to remain dead would be unjust.
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.]]
It's stated that Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Possibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.]]
She was the Leo troll, after all; also, puns of any kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
Changed line(s) 378,392 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.]]
PlotArmor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably [[DyingAsYourself back to his old self]] and [[GoOutWithASmile going out with a smile]].
* Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.
[[WMG: The mind honey is a ChekhovsGun.]]
Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a PsychoSerum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.
* Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
* The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
** Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.
[[WMG: Terezi's SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia to subconsciously make sense of information she percieves with her psychic powers, this is why Tavros's blood smells like chocolate [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004641 here]], but not [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005264 here]], and why she smells Karkat's blood colour, Dave's text and human blood colour as candy red, but smells Sollux's eye colourz as appleberry blast even though his red eye's the same shade. The smelloscope is either a MagicFeather or a [[AmplifierArtifact psychic lense]] allowing her to focus her perception on distant targets.
* Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.
to:
Deleted line(s) 405,409 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: J is also the grandson of Vriska]]
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
Changed line(s) 423,434 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Eridan is a closet asexual.]]
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
* Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
* Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
to:
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms,
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Lowbloods (Aradia, Tavros, and
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
* Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, God tier Tavros that is from the future]]
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The mind honey is a ChekhovsGun.]]
Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a PsychoSerum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.
* Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
* The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
** Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The mind honey is a ChekhovsGun.]]
Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a PsychoSerum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.
* Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
* The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
** Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.
Deleted line(s) 452,474 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy the Green Sun]]
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
* Partially {{jossed}}. Some WordOfGod confirms that Mindfang's diary is factually true, if embellished and trashy.
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
* Interestingly though, there are implications that part of the reason Beforus was the way it was was in fact partly because Feferi was the empress instead of Meenah, and while Ancestor!Karkat never became any sort of Sufferer, Kankri ''still'' found problems in the structure of Beforan society.
[[WMG: Karkat's Knight of Blood title means he can control people's bloodlust]]
Which is how he's able to calm Gamzee and keep his RagtagBunchOfMisfits together for so long.
* That would seemingly fall under the dominion of Rage.
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
* Partially {{jossed}}. Some WordOfGod confirms that Mindfang's diary is factually true, if embellished and trashy.
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
* Interestingly though, there are implications that part of the reason Beforus was the way it was was in fact partly because Feferi was the empress instead of Meenah, and while Ancestor!Karkat never became any sort of Sufferer, Kankri ''still'' found problems in the structure of Beforan society.
[[WMG: Karkat's Knight of Blood title means he can control people's bloodlust]]
Which is how he's able to calm Gamzee and keep his RagtagBunchOfMisfits together for so long.
* That would seemingly fall under the dominion of Rage.
Changed line(s) 481,510 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"]]
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
[[WMG: All sixteen characters will somehow reach God Tier.]]
Including all the ones with dead dreamselves and, in Tavros's case, dead realselves. IT WILL HAPPEN SOMEHOW.
* Not to spoil fandom or anything but that is highly unlikely and also impractical.
** Dave Strider is too cool for godtier. This fact is canon it was mentioned that Dave made a better hero of time than Aradia.
* Though Hussie has confirmed on his formspring that Godtier merch will be available for all 16 elements and that they would be revealed through story telling and fan service.
* As of the end of Act 5, all four kids are god-tier - yes, even Dave. The trolls look a lot less likely though...
** Though Gamzee reached them... somehow.
*** Turns out he just made the outfit, and didn't actually ascend.
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the same time. All eight kids make the God Tiers, but only Vriska and Aradia do so for the Trolls.
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"]]
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
[[WMG: All sixteen characters will somehow reach God Tier.]]
Including all the ones with dead dreamselves and, in Tavros's case, dead realselves. IT WILL HAPPEN SOMEHOW.
* Not to spoil fandom or anything but that is highly unlikely and also impractical.
** Dave Strider is too cool for godtier. This fact is canon it was mentioned that Dave made a better hero of time than Aradia.
* Though Hussie has confirmed on his formspring that Godtier merch will be available for all 16 elements and that they would be revealed through story telling and fan service.
* As of the end of Act 5, all four kids are god-tier - yes, even Dave. The trolls look a lot less likely though...
** Though Gamzee reached them... somehow.
*** Turns out he just made the outfit, and didn't actually ascend.
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the same time. All eight kids make the God Tiers, but only Vriska and Aradia do so for the Trolls.
to:
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Midbloods (Nepeta, Kanaya, Terezi, and Vriska)]]
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
TheSummoner was cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.
* Nope. While theonly Pre-Scratch Troll marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to reach God Tier.himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that sheAfter all, we didn't either.
see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
*** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG:Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and MarsPossibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.]]
She was thegod Leo troll, after all; also, puns of war.
*** Actuallyany kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the little pink one most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn'tcount as a moon, be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004159 Little Advantage]]" with [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004167 disastrous results]] and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, thesame way our moon only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.]]
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?
* Everyone's dead or doesn'tcount as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
care.
[[WMG:Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"]]
As different optionTerezi's SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia tothe above.
* Jossed. See above.
[[WMG: All sixteen characters will somehow reach God Tier.]]
Including all the onessubconsciously make sense of information she percieves with dead dreamselves and, in her psychic powers, this is why Tavros's case, dead realselves. IT WILL HAPPEN SOMEHOW.blood smells like chocolate [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004641 here]], but not [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005264 here]], and why she smells Karkat's blood colour, Dave's text and human blood colour as candy red, but smells Sollux's eye colourz as appleberry blast even though his red eye's the same shade. The smelloscope is either a MagicFeather or a [[AmplifierArtifact psychic lense]] allowing her to focus her perception on distant targets.
* Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
*Not Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose tospoil fandom or anything but stab her in order to prevent the BadFuture [[SelfDefeatingProphecy she had foreseen]], it was an IDidWhatIHadToDo / ShootTheDog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But thatis highly unlikely was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and also impractical.to remain dead would be unjust.
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
** Dave Strider is too cool for godtier. This fact is canon it was mentioned [[WMG: The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.]]
It's stated thatDave made a better hero Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time than Aradia.appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy the Green Sun]]
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Highbloods (Equius, Eridan, and Feferi)]]
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
*** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
*** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Eridan is a closet asexual.]]
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
*Though Hussie has Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmedon his formspring that Godtier merch will be available for all 16 elements and that they would be revealed through story telling and fan service.
* As of the end of Act 5, all four kids are god-tier - yes, even Dave. The trolls look a lot less likely though...
** Though Gamzee reached them... somehow.
*** Turns out he just made the outfit, and didn't actually ascend.
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the same time. All eight kids make the God Tiers, but onlyby Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and Aradia do so for the Trolls.
trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
[[folder: Midbloods (Nepeta, Kanaya, Terezi, and Vriska)]]
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
The
* Nope. While the
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
*** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG:
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars
She was the
*** Actually
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn't
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.]]
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?
* Everyone's dead or doesn't
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG:
As different option
That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia to
* Jossed. See above.
[[WMG: All sixteen characters will somehow reach God Tier.]]
Including all the ones
* Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
*
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
It's stated that
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy the Green Sun]]
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Highbloods (Equius, Eridan, and Feferi)]]
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
*** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
*** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Eridan is a closet asexual.]]
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
*
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed
* As of the end of Act 5, all four kids are god-tier - yes, even Dave. The trolls look a lot less likely though...
** Though Gamzee reached them... somehow.
*** Turns out he just made the outfit, and didn't actually ascend.
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the same time. All eight kids make the God Tiers, but only
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
*** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
*** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
*** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Gamzee and the Grand Highblood]]
[[WMG: Gamzee will revert back to his old self.]]
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005263 Lower right hand corner of this page]].
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
*** The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
*** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.]]
PlotArmor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably [[DyingAsYourself back to his old self]] and [[GoOutWithASmile going out with a smile]].
* Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
[[/folder]]
[[folder:UNSORTED]]
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
*** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.]]
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
*** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
*** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: J is also the grandson of Vriska]]
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
* Partially {{jossed}}. Some WordOfGod confirms that Mindfang's diary is factually true, if embellished and trashy.
[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[/folder]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
*** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
*** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
*** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Gamzee and the Grand Highblood]]
[[WMG: Gamzee will revert back to his old self.]]
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005263 Lower right hand corner of this page]].
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
*** The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
*** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.]]
PlotArmor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably [[DyingAsYourself back to his old self]] and [[GoOutWithASmile going out with a smile]].
* Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
[[/folder]]
[[folder:UNSORTED]]
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
*** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.]]
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
*** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
*** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: J is also the grandson of Vriska]]
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
* Partially {{jossed}}. Some WordOfGod confirms that Mindfang's diary is factually true, if embellished and trashy.
[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
* Jossed, at least Arenea did.
* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
** No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
[[/folder]]
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[[WMG: After Eridan comes back in some way, Jade's blabbing out to him that she was working with her "grandson" on the bunny will come back to bite her...]]
Why? ...Because Eridan will use that against her somehow...
* How? There's no conceivable way that it could be used "against her"; it was a simple bit of exposition about Jake and not some massive plot revelation that Jade is ashamed of. And at any rate, Alpha timeline Eridan has never been seen in any dreambubble at all.
** Not sure what's meant by "Alpha timeline Eridan", but if you mean the one we're familiar with, we did see him early in A6I2...
*** That's an alternate timeline Eridan who went God Tier. The Alpha or Main timeline Eridan who killed Feferi and Kanaya hasn't been seen at all or referred to once since his death.
*** I was thinking about the pre- or post-Scratch distinction. All the terms Homestuckers throw around is getting confusing.
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[[WMG: All sixteen characters will somehow reach God Tier.]]
Including all the ones with dead dreamselves and, in Tavros's case, dead realselves. IT WILL HAPPEN SOMEHOW.
* Not to spoil fandom or anything but that is highly unlikely and also impractical.
** Dave Strider is too cool for godtier. This fact is canon it was mentioned that Dave made a better hero of time than Aradia.
* Though Hussie has confirmed on his formspring that Godtier merch will be available for all 16 elements and that they would be revealed through story telling and fan service.
* As of the end of Act 5, all four kids are god-tier - yes, even Dave. The trolls look a lot less likely though...
** Though Gamzee reached them... somehow.
*** Turns out he just made the outfit, and didn't actually ascend.
*** '''Jossed''' , yet kinda confirmed at the same time. All eight kids make the God Tiers, but only Vriska and Aradia do so for the Trolls.
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* Jossed, it's named "Beforus".
to:
* Jossed, ''Mars has two moons.''
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named"Beforus"."Earth"]]
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
** But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
*** Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
*** Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher]], after all.
** So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
*** If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.
* Jossed. The planet was called Beforus.
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named
As different option to the above.
* Jossed. See above.
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* It is entirely possible that the kids will come across the afterlife at one point, as foreshadowed by Dream Jade and Feferi. If the afterlife is as easy to escape from as ProblemSleuth was, the trolls might be back. But then they might not.
to:
* It is entirely possible that the kids will come across the afterlife at one point, as foreshadowed by Dream Jade and Feferi. If the afterlife is as easy to escape from as ProblemSleuth ''Webcomic/ProblemSleuth'' was, the trolls might be back. But then they might not.
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* Finally we have Karkat and Terezi. They will survive past the countdown, and probably enter the kids dimension. Karkat, or at least his weapon, will play a role in defeating John's denizen Typheus- this is because Zeus fought Typehus with a sickle in GreekMythology. However, they are still probably going to die; Karkat and Terezi might be TogetherInDeath, or Terezi will [[DiedInYourArmsTonight die in Karkat's arms]], letting Karkat to deliver a final speech to John before he dies, telling him that he can save all exsistence from certain destruction.
to:
* Finally we have Karkat and Terezi. They will survive past the countdown, and probably enter the kids dimension. Karkat, or at least his weapon, will play a role in defeating John's denizen Typheus- this is because Zeus fought Typehus with a sickle in GreekMythology.Myth/GreekMythology. However, they are still probably going to die; Karkat and Terezi might be TogetherInDeath, or Terezi will [[DiedInYourArmsTonight die in Karkat's arms]], letting Karkat to deliver a final speech to John before he dies, telling him that he can save all exsistence from certain destruction.
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Changed line(s) 429,430 (click to see context) from:
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
to:
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in denial.denial]]. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
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All the precieved evil that she has done is actually just her trying to preserve the timelines.
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All the precieved perceived evil that she has done is actually just her trying to preserve the timelines.
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* 1. How would Karkat even know how to lobotomize someone? 2. How do you lobotomize someone with a siccle? 3. Is Gamzee just standing still while this is happening or did Kanaya kick him in the balls again? 4. A lobotomy is not laser guided amnesia it is the process of cutting appart the brain, he wouldn't be back to his soper self he would be catatonic.
to:
* 1. How would Karkat even know how to lobotomize someone? 2. How do you lobotomize someone with a siccle? sickle? 3. Is Gamzee just standing still while this is happening or did Kanaya kick him in the balls again? 4. A lobotomy is not laser guided amnesia it is the process of cutting appart the brain, he wouldn't be back to his soper sopor self he would be catatonic.
Changed line(s) 420 (click to see context) from:
*** The machine made the babies, he pressed buttons. Sollux made the virus Karkat executed it. [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Icepicks1.jpg Straight needle-thin objects]] are required for lobotomization and a siccle may not be thin enough. Ambush the guy who teleports might actually work (have worked? since it technically already happened we just didn't see it) seeing as it was already done against Dave by Bro, however Bro did have the same ability. It is true that the results of lobotomies is veriable and that they are still done today, but not on mental patients. It's done on epilepsy patients to basically kill the part of the brain causing the problems. Did do the research.
to:
*** The machine made the babies, he pressed buttons. Sollux made the virus Karkat executed it. [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Icepicks1.jpg Straight needle-thin objects]] are required for lobotomization and a siccle sickle may not be thin enough. Ambush the guy who teleports might actually work (have worked? since it technically already happened we just didn't see it) seeing as it was already done against Dave by Bro, however Bro did have the same ability. It is true that the results of lobotomies is veriable and that they are still done today, but not on mental patients. It's done on epilepsy patients to basically kill the part of the brain causing the problems. Did do the research.
Changed line(s) 428,430 (click to see context) from:
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is manditory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's in denial. IJustWantToBeNormal... Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's in denial. IJustWantToBeNormal... Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
to:
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is manditory mandatory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal indenial. IJustWantToBeNormal...denial. Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's [[IJustWantToBeNormal in
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*** Which is precisely ''why'' he would pursue his quadrants so hard. He's in denial. IJustWantToBeNormal... Though, admittedly, six sweeps is confirmed by Vriska to be just about the beginning of puberty for trolls, so he's probably too young to really tell. It is possible he's a late bloomer jumping the gun and trying to push himself into quadrants he doesn't want ''yet'' because he's panicking.
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* Interestingly though, there are implications that part of the reason Beforus was the way it was was in fact partly because Feferi was the empress instead of Meenah, and while Ancestor!Karkat never became any sort of Sufferer, Kankri ''still'' found problems in the structure of Beforan society.
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*Partially {{jossed}}. Some WordOfGod confirms that Mindfang's diary is factually true, if embellished and trashy.
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** '''Confirmed:''' The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with '''undyingumbrage''' (Caliborn, or Lord English).
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Changed line(s) 52,54 (click to see context) from:
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs for speculation on her identity.
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* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs [=WMGs=] for speculation on her identity.
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Removing wick to Did Not Do The Research per rename at TRS.
Changed line(s) 6,11 (click to see context) from:
**** Alternatively, Ophiuchus (formerly Serpentarius) is represented by the protagonists. Indeed, at least [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002899 three of the kids birthdays]] fall under Ophiuchus, and there is [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002704 some reason to think John's birthday is not actually April the 13th]].
**** 12 would also be consistent with the ACTG naming scheme that has been observed for the characters' usernames; there are a total of 16 possible combinations, four for the protagonists and 12 for the trolls.
***** John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
**** This troper thinks the white text is a good candidate for Ophiuchus/Serpentarius.
***** New troper is thinking Gamzee is Ophiuchus (or his apparent split persona) as the new traits are matching up.
****** Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)
**** 12 would also be consistent with the ACTG naming scheme that has been observed for the characters' usernames; there are a total of 16 possible combinations, four for the protagonists and 12 for the trolls.
***** John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
**** This troper thinks the white text is a good candidate for Ophiuchus/Serpentarius.
***** New troper is thinking Gamzee is Ophiuchus (or his apparent split persona) as the new traits are matching up.
****** Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)
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** 1. You're talking about somebody who created 12 babies from scratch, creates viruses that destroy computers and is generally the only sane man in a clique of trolls that have various psychological problems. I think he's capable. 2. [[http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/f/f3/HSYL.png Watch the curve of the blades.]] Simply drive both into the frontal cortex. 3. Ambush. 4. The effects of a lobotomy varies. [[http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-30/health/pdg.lobotomy_1_mental-illness-lobotomy-transorbital?_s=PM:HEALTH Some people who have had them still go on to lead normal, if somewhat different lives.]] DidNotDoTheResearch, much?
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** 1. You're talking about somebody who created 12 babies from scratch, creates viruses that destroy computers and is generally the only sane man in a clique of trolls that have various psychological problems. I think he's capable. 2. [[http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/f/f3/HSYL.png Watch the curve of the blades.]] Simply drive both into the frontal cortex. 3. Ambush. 4. The effects of a lobotomy varies. [[http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-30/health/pdg.lobotomy_1_mental-illness-lobotomy-transorbital?_s=PM:HEALTH Some people who have had them still go on to lead normal, if somewhat different lives.]] DidNotDoTheResearch, much?]]
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**No, Porrim said that she didn't either.
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This is Homestuck. All spoilers are unmarked. All of them.
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* Unless [[spoiler: Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo]] I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
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* Unless [[spoiler: Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo]] Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
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** Jossed because the Empress is [[spoiler:Feferi's ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.]]
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** Jossed because the Empress is [[spoiler:Feferi's ancestor Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.]]
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* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005510 This]] page indicates the blood colours of all the trolls who were/will be killed or maimed and subsequently found by Gamzee to write this specific rambling note in their blood. This includes the blood colours of [[spoiler:Feferi, Terezi, Sollux, Nepeta, Kanaya, Eridan, Tavros and Equius]].
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* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005510 This]] page indicates the blood colours of all the trolls who were/will be killed or maimed and subsequently found by Gamzee to write this specific rambling note in their blood. This includes the blood colours of [[spoiler:Feferi, Feferi, Terezi, Sollux, Nepeta, Kanaya, Eridan, Tavros and Equius]].Equius.
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* Eridan will also be stabbed by Noir. [[spoiler: RewardedAsATraitorDeserves]]
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* Eridan will also be stabbed by Noir. [[spoiler: RewardedAsATraitorDeserves]]RewardedAsATraitorDeserves
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The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
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The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] actions. This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
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[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, [[spoiler: God tier Tavros that is from the future]]]]
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[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, [[spoiler: God tier Tavros that is from the future]]]]future]]
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* Jossed, it's name Beforus.
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* Jossed, it's name Beforus.named "Beforus".
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Jossing theories :U
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[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"]]
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* Jossed, it's name Beforus.
This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.
* Jossed, it's name Beforus.
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* Maybe he was the only one not to do so?
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* While it doesn't seem likely that there's additional Trollslum accounts, there's a theory parading around the forums that twinArmageddons (the chumHandle representing Gemini) might be shared between two people. Should the user of that account make a canon appearance in the comic, [[{{Romanticaveman}} This Troper]] is hoping they're a pair of like-minded CreepyTwins who share a keyboard!
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* While it doesn't seem likely that there's additional Trollslum accounts, there's a theory parading around the forums that twinArmageddons (the chumHandle representing Gemini) might be shared between two people. Should the user of that account make a canon appearance in the comic, [[{{Romanticaveman}} [[@/{{Romanticaveman}} This Troper]] is hoping they're a pair of like-minded CreepyTwins who share a keyboard!
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[[WMG: The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.]]
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
*Jossed, at least Arenea did.
It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.
*Jossed, at least Arenea did.
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misuse as emphasis
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[[WMG: Terezi's BeyondTheImpossible SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
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[[WMG: Terezi's BeyondTheImpossible SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
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[[WMG: There are thirteen trolls, each corresponding to a constellation.]]
Fits the theme number, and gives them the catchy title of the astrologists.
* Jade has said there are twelve.
** Not just any old constellations, evidence suggests that they correspond to the WesternZodiac
*** And then there's #13, Serpentarius, which is kind of weird and not counted, but would fit with the 413 motif. Plus, she just * counted* twelve - no indication there couldn't be another.
**** Alternatively, Ophiuchus (formerly Serpentarius) is represented by the protagonists. Indeed, at least [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002899 three of the kids birthdays]] fall under Ophiuchus, and there is [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002704 some reason to think John's birthday is not actually April the 13th]].
**** 12 would also be consistent with the ACTG naming scheme that has been observed for the characters' usernames; there are a total of 16 possible combinations, four for the protagonists and 12 for the trolls.
***** John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
**** This troper thinks the white text is a good candidate for Ophiuchus/Serpentarius.
***** New troper is thinking Gamzee is Ophiuchus (or his apparent split persona) as the new traits are matching up.
****** Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)
* While it doesn't seem likely that there's additional Trollslum accounts, there's a theory parading around the forums that twinArmageddons (the chumHandle representing Gemini) might be shared between two people. Should the user of that account make a canon appearance in the comic, [[{{Romanticaveman}} This Troper]] is hoping they're a pair of like-minded CreepyTwins who share a keyboard!
** Jossed. Sollux Captor is indeed just one troll and only has a twin in his dream form.
* The Ophiuchus troll, if she exists, is the UU whose theme is "The Thirteenth Hour" on the Alternia album. While the sixteen known characters' chumhandles come from DNA, U represents uracil in genetics, which is a part of RNA. Given the formula of double letters belonging to girls (Jade, Rose, Feferi, Aradia), UU would be female.
** Actually there's a song called 'Umbra Ultimatum'. If this is true this would fit as both a theme and a chum handle.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003925 For instance the main loop here will terminate on the death of the universe, labeled U]] okay something tells me they wont be a good thing if this theory turns out to be true.... On the same page, Karket also codes the virus to execute when he dies. Maybe this is means that UU is actually a reincarnation to execute itself when he dies, or else another 'life'. Assuming this being so, there could be a window for Karkat to reach god tier, if there is a way to do so from the veil(dream bubbles, maybe?)
Don't rule it out as impossible just yet; correct me if i'm wrong but i dont remember it ever being explained how aradia became a zombie/ghost sort of deal after she died. Maybe she had a virus written for her too? Sollux is a programmer and it is implied that they were something of an item when she was killed. Besides Sollux is a psionic, we can't rule out the possibility that he knew what vriska would do and took measures to ensure aradia was at least somewhat okay afterwards.
All of the above are Jossed. As of current canon, there are only two possibilities for a 13th Troll, either one in the future along the lines of J, or the troll Empress.
* pipefan413 survived Earth's reckoning. There is no reason why the troll's session could't get much the same glitch, or if it even is a glitch.
** That was fedorafreak. pipefan is Dad (and later Nannasprite).
This may be yet proven true however, as what appears to be an unknown troll is shown observing the post-scratch session as of Act 6. To add further credence to the theory of he/she being the one which represents Orphiuchus, his/her console has what appears to be a Rod of Asclepius engraved on top, Asclepius being the Greek deity which Orphiuchus represents
* Jossed. There are at least ''17'' trolls introduced thus far and still relevant to the plot. UU and her brother are also unrelated to the Troll Session we know, which was the spirit of the WMG. Betty Crocker is the Troll Empress, and what seem to be alternate versions of the Trolls (ancestors or descendants) have been appearing in dream bubbles.
[[WMG: Gamzee will revert back to his old self.]]
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless [[spoiler: Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo]] I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is [[spoiler:Feferi's ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.]]
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
**** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn't be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004159 Little Advantage]]" with [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004167 disastrous results]] and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
[[WMG: Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: Aradia will take vengeance for Tavros.]]
Upon her ascension, she conveniently gained not only the emotions required to once again fully care of one of her best friends from back when she was alive, the emotions required to be distressed of his death, and desire to take vengeance for him just like she did before - but also the sufficient powers to stand up against the murderer, Vriska Serket.
** Aradia isn't planning anything of the sort, besides she knows Tavros isn't "dead" per se.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
**** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
***** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
***** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
[[WMG: The slaughter of the trolls is leading up to a BadFuture, like with Alternate Future Dave]]
God-Tier Aradia will go back in time and make it aaaaall better. I hope.
* It's also possible that Karkat uses Aradia's time travel device to go back and try to fix things. If only because having him meet his own past/future self in person would be hilarious.
* I so very much hope so. Would explain why Future-Karkat and Future-Terezi don't seem to be all that traumatised. Unless -they- came from a BadFuture
** Andrew has Jossed this. I don't have a link unfortunately. Besides, Sollux himself said all the trolls were going to die. We simply assumed it meant dream selves.
[[WMG: The fate of the Trolls]]
With the deaths of Tavros, Feferi and Kanaya, it's not hard to see that the troll bodycount has just begun, and that these initial deaths will be the cause of others. How? Well:
* Terezi will attempt to kill Vriska in order to [[RunningGag make her pay]] for killing Tavros. She will either succeed through superior skill (similar to the first circle of revenge they participated in) and then die shortly afterwards from injuries sustained in the battle, or fail and die followed by Vriska being killed by the newly-ressurected and very pissed (evenmoreso because [Tavros and Terezi are dead) God-Tier Aradia.
** Terezi is actually confirmed to be alive one hour after the mysterious countdown timer goes to zero. Unless Hussie decides to retcon things. Or unless she's being...impersonated.
*** Andrew has hinted he might retcon this
*** She survives the Troll Session.
* If Feferi's death is any indication, Eridan will track down Nepeta and try to kill her for rejecting him. I say try because Equius will step in and defend her from Eridan, dying as a result. Nepeta will finally snap and kill Eridan in a beserker rage, and when the rage subsides she will be traumatized by the experience. Because we all know how much fun [[BreakTheCutie breaking the Cutie]] is.
** Alternately, she runs into Gamzee with a similar result, especially given the scratches on Gamzee's face. Nepeta manages to fend off Gamzee, which explains why he's only painting with his blood, while Nepeta [[Fanon dies from]] [[RunningGag internal bleeding.]]
*** Both Jossed, in that Gamzee killed Equius and scratched ''himself'' with Nepeta's claws before presumably killing her, admittedly via blunt force trauma.
* Aradia and Sollux will reunite and, having been informed of whatever plan will be formed to deal with Jack Noir, will resolve to sacrifice themselves to hold Jack at bay and allow the plan to be completed. While they're gone, [[ObfuscatingStupidity Gamzee]] will reveal himself as the mastermind behind everything and kill Karkat; due to the UnspokenPlanGuarantee hinted at [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004528 here]], this will happen shortly before the Kids attempt to create the Scratch. Nepeta, harboring the red feelings for Karkat that were mentioned [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 here]], will attempt to kill Gamzee and die as a result. Elsewhere, Sollux and Aradia are killed by Jack Noir.
** For the same reasons as Terezi, Karkat is also alive one hour after the countdown ends.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005508 This]] Page shows a memory of one of the trolls in a dream bubble, and clearly shows Karkat and Terezi at the very least quite seriously injured, most likely dead. It seems to be a version of Aradia's memory.
*** Sollux is MIA, Karkat is ''probably'' dead, and Aradia is waiting from someone else and not reuniting with anyone.
**** Semi-confirmed, though not in the manner described. Sollux and Aradia are waiting at the Green Sun to help slow down Jack Noir.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005510 This]] page indicates the blood colours of all the trolls who were/will be killed or maimed and subsequently found by Gamzee to write this specific rambling note in their blood. This includes the blood colours of [[spoiler:Feferi, Terezi, Sollux, Nepeta, Kanaya, Eridan, Tavros and Equius]].
** It is mentioned in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005508 this]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005509 arc]] in the dream bubbles that this particular page of rambling honks written by Gamzee on a book about death are situated a doomed timeline, should never have happened and was repaired by at least one version of Aradia. What this means for the future of the trolls, we can only speculate.
[[WMG: Alternative fate of the trolls]]
* Nepeta will die in a horribly ironic manner; her Lusus's namesake [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Ponce_de_Le%C3%B3n Juan Ponce de Leon]], died upon being shot with a poisoned arrow...and Nepeta's Trollian handle is '''arsenic'''Catnip. So Nepeta will die much like Grandpa Harley; Equius will ''finally'' fire a bow at Bec Noir, only for him to redirect it right into Nepeta. This will cause Equius to [[FreakOut flip the fuck out]], and unless someone slaps him out of it (like Aradia in yet more call backs), he's probably going to let Noir stab him to death. However, he's going to die regardless.
** Pounce De Leon died from being crushed in a cave-in.
*** Jossed, clubbed to death by Gamzee
* Eridan will also be stabbed by Noir. [[spoiler: RewardedAsATraitorDeserves]]
** Chainsawed by Kanaya
* Gamzee will undergo DyingAsYourself. It will be a HeroicSacrifice though, as it will allow some of the other trolls to escape to the kids dimension. Unfortunately, they still won't live for much longer.
** Gamzee is still completely insane and pretty much unstoppable.
* Sollux is pretty much doomed. He will probably encounter Terezi and Aradia first, and it's possible he'll die in front of Aradia in another CallBack.
** Yep, d00m c0nfirmed.
*** MIA, possibly dead.
** Update, he's been found. And still alive.
*** Not anymore, though no one caused it but himself.
* Aradia's fate is a bit up in the air, as while she did die already, it was before Sollux made his prediction about the trolls dying. So it's possible she could [[IncrediblyLamePun run out of time again]].
** Immmortal and God tiered. She stopped Jack, if anyone has a chance to survive, it's her.
* Simlarly, Vriska's fate is up in the air because she already died in the game itself. This leads to the possibility that she may be the only surviving troll. On the other hand, Sollux never said that ''only'' he would die twice. There is also some other foreshadowing.
** Doc Scratch says that if he was a gambling man he wouldn't bet on Vriska living to see the "silver lining" (although as another point for Vriska's survival, he never outright says she's going to die).
** Then there's the odd dream sequence with Wayward Vagabond where Vriska appears as a bug: The sequence begins with a reference to an earlier scene with Jade that ended with the line "You eat a bug and you don't even care." Note that Vriska fed trolls to her spider-Lusus.
** Finally there's Terezi's statement that luck dosen't actually matter.
** In conclusion, this troper thinks that Vriska will have a FateWorseThanDeath, or a KarmicDeath as she is ''eaten alive''. For more irony, it will be when she actually does manage to kill Jack Noir.
*** Adding that Vriska might be the last to die. Why? The 8-ball is the last to be pocketed!
*** Stabbed in the chest.
* Finally we have Karkat and Terezi. They will survive past the countdown, and probably enter the kids dimension. Karkat, or at least his weapon, will play a role in defeating John's denizen Typheus- this is because Zeus fought Typehus with a sickle in GreekMythology. However, they are still probably going to die; Karkat and Terezi might be TogetherInDeath, or Terezi will [[DiedInYourArmsTonight die in Karkat's arms]], letting Karkat to deliver a final speech to John before he dies, telling him that he can save all exsistence from certain destruction.
** Again, Karkat is probably already dead.
*** They both survive.
* The kids will then somehow save the troll race from extinction. They might recreate Alternia at the end of their session, playing the role the trolls once played for the kids, or they simply will just use alchemy and ectobiology. Or they'll do both.
** Jossed, the kid's session is barren.
* It is entirely possible that the kids will come across the afterlife at one point, as foreshadowed by Dream Jade and Feferi. If the afterlife is as easy to escape from as ProblemSleuth was, the trolls might be back. But then they might not.
** Even if they are, it isn't likely because the Kids are focusing on hard resetting their session.
*** Actually, its even easier, after all, Sollux could leave simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to...
*** Sollux is an exception.
[[WMG: Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.]]
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?
* Everyone's dead or doesn't care.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005263 Lower right hand corner of this page]].
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
*** The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
**** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
[[WMG: Karkat's Sburb Title will be important again]]
Kanaya is apparently now a rainbow-drinker, i.e. a bloodsucker. And Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Either he's due to become her protector, or her slayer.
* Alternatively, he's getting stronger the more dead people there are.
* Or he's going to become a more literal BloodKnight.
* He's going to do the Bloody Thing. He even has Spades Slick on a console to bug him into it.
** His title was never unimportant. But the specifics about this are jossed.
[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their {{Famous Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
The cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.
* Nope. While the marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
After all, we didn't see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
**** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
[[WMG: Due to Ectobiology Shenanigans, there are two Karkats]]
The implications that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally in trolls, along with Kanaya's [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005218 statement]] that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it is not a true paradox clone and is not sent back in time, it is possible that the current Karkat is a mutant clone, which would mean that somewhere there is another Karkat with a different blood color. Since he the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat would have likely done this himself, but have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color to distinguish himself from the others, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.
* Probably Jossed: by all appearances the Signless / Sufferer was a normal ancestor, aside from his blood and flashbacks to the pre-Scratch session.
[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
**** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
***** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
[[WMG: Karkat will survive Gamzee's rage by becoming angry.]]
"But he's always angry", you say? No, he's always ''frustrated''. He's SurroundedByIdiots, and grew up as a red-blooded pariah- there was hardly ever a day when he wasn't frustrated. Remember how he accused Vriska of spreading her hate so thin that it meant nothing? Karkat is the exact same way, never able to express anything more than a dull, simmering bitterness.
But now... His allies are the last trolls in the universe, and they insist on killing each other off. His people are threatened by an OutsideContextVillain that looks just like one of his closest friends. The biggest threat to his well-being is a ''fucking Juggalo''. For the first time in his life, Karkat's simmering blood will finally come to a boil. He's going to get angry, and whatever gets in his way will die horribly.
* And the fact that he may be related to [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005653 His Honorable Tyranny]] may help his case.
** Not related. Also probably dead in all likelihood.
* Also you are assuming that Karkat could ever actually hate anyone other than himself. His own team has regarded his attitude as worry or meddling not actual hatred.
* {{Jossed}}. He defeats Gamzee with ThePowerOfFriendship.
[[WMG: Karkat's ancestor is the reason his blood color is regarded as a mutation.]]
With the revelation that he apparently led a failed rebellion, and the fact that even his symbol became 'heretical', it makes sense that his blood color would also be purged from the hemospectrum. He was probably wiped off the record as well, so that when Karkat was born/left the caves/whatever trolls actually do, he found no evidence to any other troll with blood like his, and regarded himself as a freak. With her long lifespan, the troll Empress is probably the only living troll who remembers the rebellion, so no other troll would have seen blood like his either. The only hitch in this is that the cancer symbol apparently re-entered the system to be Karkat's symbol. Who knows why/how.
** Symbols are assigned in some manner through the trials each troll undergoes. Karkat may have simply been tenacious enough to get a symbol long forgotten. After all, after a few generations, nobody would remember the rebellion ever happened at all.
*** The rebellion was the biggest disaster for troll-kind ever. Not talked about? Sure. Forgotten? Unlikely.
** More likely it's the fact that the sufferers symbol was a red 69 and karkat's flipped that turnways and made it grey. It's like Supermans glasses.
*** Jossed. We now have an explanation for Karkat's symbol: it represents the irons the Sufferer (aka the Signless) died in, and apparently the Sufferer's followers are responsible for him getting it. The blood color was always a mutant one.
[[WMG: The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.]]
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
**** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
**** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, [[spoiler: God tier Tavros that is from the future]]]]
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to stab her in order to prevent the BadFuture [[SelfDefeatingProphecy she had foreseen]], it was an IDidWhatIHadToDo / ShootTheDog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and to remain dead would be unjust.
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.]]
It's stated that Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Possibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.]]
She was the Leo troll, after all; also, puns of any kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
[[WMG: Karkat had hate sex with Gamzee a) to calm him down or b) to get close enough to kill him.]]
CG: IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT.
* Those purple bloodstains could be from additional wounds on Gamzee, or transferred from his face during a makeout session.
** Alternatively, he could have just engaged in sloppy makeouts with Gamz to 'deal' with him temporarily, hence his refusal to mention it to John. (If the whole 'not a homosexual' thing is a huge cultural barrier for him, Karkat can't imagine trying to explain a blackrom version-- especially if his first conversation with John is so close to appearing on the kid's timeline.)
** It would also correlate closely with Spades and Snowman's "Hate Snog"
** Unlikely; Andrew loves to tease shippers but such blatant sexual actions are right out. As for the makeouts, plausible, but neither of them have ''ever'' displayed any interest in each other.
** Right idea, wrong quadrant. As of the 8/22 update, it's revealed that Karkat calmed down Gamzee via ''moiraillegiance.''
** To add onto the above point, the reason Karkat has purple bloodstains on his face is from when they hugged. If I recall correctly, their cheeks were pressed together, which would be why Karkat now has blood on his face.
[[WMG: Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.]]
PlotArmor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably [[DyingAsYourself back to his old self]] and [[GoOutWithASmile going out with a smile]].
* Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.
[[WMG: The mind honey is a ChekhovsGun.]]
Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a PsychoSerum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.
* Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
* The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
** Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.
[[WMG: Terezi's BeyondTheImpossible SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia to subconsciously make sense of information she percieves with her psychic powers, this is why Tavros's blood smells like chocolate [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004641 here]], but not [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005264 here]], and why she smells Karkat's blood colour, Dave's text and human blood colour as candy red, but smells Sollux's eye colourz as appleberry blast even though his red eye's the same shade. The smelloscope is either a MagicFeather or a [[AmplifierArtifact psychic lense]] allowing her to focus her perception on distant targets.
* Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.
[[WMG: Karkat's corpsesmooch is what cause Kanaya to become a Rainbow Drinker.]]
Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Rainbow Drinkers are like vampires and are associated with blood. There is clearly some connection.
* Andrew has specifically jossed this one to my knowledge. Something to do with her own role as a Slyph + her past on Alternia. Karkat's powers are unrelated.
** It seems that all the players have abilities before they enter that are not related to their aspects. The time players both control time but one could flash step before he entered the game and the other had telekinesis before she entered the game. Kanaya may have been destined to become a Rainbowdrinker all along but had to die in order for it to happen.
[[WMG: The "Karkat" John is talking to is actually Gamzee]]
Quote: "IT WAS. A MOTHERFUCKING. JOKE.". One of Gamzee's personalities types the same way.
* Because we all know Karkat never references other quirks of the trolls.
** What would be the point of that? Also if it is really Gamzee he is doing a spot on imitation.
* Extremely, extremely unlikely, if not Jossed, for a couple of reasons. 1: If you're implying that Gamzee killed Karkat offscreen, keep in mind that Doc Scratch had ''just'' got done saying "What sort of story would this be, with our Knight and Seer made to stay cadavers? Certainly not one the alpha timeline would allow. And not one [Terezi] would allow either." In that sense, does it really matter whether it's Bec Noir or Gamzee that kills Karkat and Terezi? 2: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005767 We SAW Karkat, drenched in Gamzee's blood, at Vriska's computer.]]
* So very {{Jossed}} as of 8/22.
[[WMG: J is also the grandson of Vriska]]
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
[[WMG: Karkat and John have Inter-species relations and Karkat is his own ancestor]]
In either the alpha timeline or a split time line, Karkat and John have delicious hate(on karkat's side)/love(on johns side) sex and Karkat is made the old fashion way, by submitting their generic material in that mass bucket of incestuous slurry.
John, being human and having red blood, is the wild card in the troll reproduction cycle that gives Karkat his red blood.
* Jossed. Karkat's ancestor is the Sufferer, there was a whole sequence about it remember? His rebellion was so pants shittingly terrifying that he and his blood color were wiped from history.
[[WMG: Karkat lobotomized Gamzee.]]
Gamzee was mellow due to the effects of the supor slime pies affecting his brain. Karkat realized that, and, unwilling to kill a troll he's considered his very best friend since the beginning, opted to return Gamzee to the way he was by using his sickles to give his friend a lobotomy, so he'll have no memories of him being a descended Subjugglator.
* 1. How would Karkat even know how to lobotomize someone? 2. How do you lobotomize someone with a siccle? 3. Is Gamzee just standing still while this is happening or did Kanaya kick him in the balls again? 4. A lobotomy is not laser guided amnesia it is the process of cutting appart the brain, he wouldn't be back to his soper self he would be catatonic.
** 1. You're talking about somebody who created 12 babies from scratch, creates viruses that destroy computers and is generally the only sane man in a clique of trolls that have various psychological problems. I think he's capable. 2. [[http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/f/f3/HSYL.png Watch the curve of the blades.]] Simply drive both into the frontal cortex. 3. Ambush. 4. The effects of a lobotomy varies. [[http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-30/health/pdg.lobotomy_1_mental-illness-lobotomy-transorbital?_s=PM:HEALTH Some people who have had them still go on to lead normal, if somewhat different lives.]] DidNotDoTheResearch, much?
*** The machine made the babies, he pressed buttons. Sollux made the virus Karkat executed it. [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Icepicks1.jpg Straight needle-thin objects]] are required for lobotomization and a siccle may not be thin enough. Ambush the guy who teleports might actually work (have worked? since it technically already happened we just didn't see it) seeing as it was already done against Dave by Bro, however Bro did have the same ability. It is true that the results of lobotomies is veriable and that they are still done today, but not on mental patients. It's done on epilepsy patients to basically kill the part of the brain causing the problems. Did do the research.
* {{Jossed}}.
[[WMG: Eridan is a closet asexual.]]
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
* Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is manditory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
[[WMG: Aradia is Betty Crocker]]
All the precieved evil that she has done is actually just her trying to preserve the timelines.
* She could have time shenanigans to give Dave the miracles video.
[[WMG: Aradia is the Cuestick of the Felt.]]
...or at least, Doc Scratch is trying to make her fill this role. Look at her hair in this strip [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005935 here.]] Those are mini cuesticks embedded in it.
* LordEnglish is the cuestick, which makes a lot more sense. The Handmaiden merely has the mini cuestick to indicate her affiliation.
[[WMG: The Aradia we're seeing is Dream!Aradia]]
Doc is taking her to the crypt in Derse we saw in [S] Wake, where she will/did ascend to God Tier later.
* Jossed. See below.
[[WMG: Sollux Captor is the Tumor]]
When he was speaking with Aradia in front of the green sun, whilst flying, he's shown to have one black eye and one white eye. This makes sense because Sollux can fly himself into the green sun, thus preventing two of the main characters' deaths.
* Jossed. Both the Tumor and the cause of Sollux's death are very different.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy the Green Sun]]
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
[[WMG: Karkat's Knight of Blood title means he can control people's bloodlust]]
Which is how he's able to calm Gamzee and keep his RagtagBunchOfMisfits together for so long.
* That would seemingly fall under the dominion of Rage.
[[WMG: Sollux isn't going to die after the events of [S] Cascade.]]
It looks like he's sacrificing himself, but he's not going to die. According to the Homestuck Laws of Symmetry, he actually CAN'T. If you look at it this way, there are an even number of kids and an even number of trolls, an even number of Prospit and Derse dreamers (Sollux himself being the only exception), and most importantly, an even number of boys and girls. If Sollux died, one of the three remaining troll girls would have to die (I'm not counting UU because she's already an outlier in this situation). Aradia can't die unless it's heroic or just, Kanaya presumably can't die because she's a rainbow drinker (I'm not sure how that works though), and Terezi can't die because Doc Scratch himself said the Alpha Timeline wouldn't allow it. Previous troll deaths have also come in boy/girl pairs; Tavros and Feferi (who incidentally were both killed by the people who were romantically interested in them), and Equius and Nepeta. Based on that, it would have to be Aradia that dies if Sollux does, and as God Tier, I don't think she will be dying any time soon.
TL;DR, Based on HS Laws of Symmetry, Sollux won't be dying unless one of the troll girls is going to die too (and for all intents and purposes, that's impossible for now).
Anyway, that's the WHY he's not dead yet. As for the HOW, I think it's going to have something to do with his once-mentioned and as-of-yet unrevealed Prospit dreamself.
* Jossed. He dies.
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[[{{WMG.Homestuck}} > Go Back]]\\
[[Webcomic/{{Homestuck}} > Return to main page]]
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Fits the theme number, and gives them the catchy title of the astrologists.
* Jade has said there are twelve.
** Not just any old constellations, evidence suggests that they correspond to the WesternZodiac
*** And then there's #13, Serpentarius, which is kind of weird and not counted, but would fit with the 413 motif. Plus, she just * counted* twelve - no indication there couldn't be another.
**** Alternatively, Ophiuchus (formerly Serpentarius) is represented by the protagonists. Indeed, at least [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002899 three of the kids birthdays]] fall under Ophiuchus, and there is [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002704 some reason to think John's birthday is not actually April the 13th]].
**** 12 would also be consistent with the ACTG naming scheme that has been observed for the characters' usernames; there are a total of 16 possible combinations, four for the protagonists and 12 for the trolls.
***** John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
**** This troper thinks the white text is a good candidate for Ophiuchus/Serpentarius.
***** New troper is thinking Gamzee is Ophiuchus (or his apparent split persona) as the new traits are matching up.
****** Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)
* While it doesn't seem likely that there's additional Trollslum accounts, there's a theory parading around the forums that twinArmageddons (the chumHandle representing Gemini) might be shared between two people. Should the user of that account make a canon appearance in the comic, [[{{Romanticaveman}} This Troper]] is hoping they're a pair of like-minded CreepyTwins who share a keyboard!
** Jossed. Sollux Captor is indeed just one troll and only has a twin in his dream form.
* The Ophiuchus troll, if she exists, is the UU whose theme is "The Thirteenth Hour" on the Alternia album. While the sixteen known characters' chumhandles come from DNA, U represents uracil in genetics, which is a part of RNA. Given the formula of double letters belonging to girls (Jade, Rose, Feferi, Aradia), UU would be female.
** Actually there's a song called 'Umbra Ultimatum'. If this is true this would fit as both a theme and a chum handle.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003925 For instance the main loop here will terminate on the death of the universe, labeled U]] okay something tells me they wont be a good thing if this theory turns out to be true.... On the same page, Karket also codes the virus to execute when he dies. Maybe this is means that UU is actually a reincarnation to execute itself when he dies, or else another 'life'. Assuming this being so, there could be a window for Karkat to reach god tier, if there is a way to do so from the veil(dream bubbles, maybe?)
Don't rule it out as impossible just yet; correct me if i'm wrong but i dont remember it ever being explained how aradia became a zombie/ghost sort of deal after she died. Maybe she had a virus written for her too? Sollux is a programmer and it is implied that they were something of an item when she was killed. Besides Sollux is a psionic, we can't rule out the possibility that he knew what vriska would do and took measures to ensure aradia was at least somewhat okay afterwards.
All of the above are Jossed. As of current canon, there are only two possibilities for a 13th Troll, either one in the future along the lines of J, or the troll Empress.
* pipefan413 survived Earth's reckoning. There is no reason why the troll's session could't get much the same glitch, or if it even is a glitch.
** That was fedorafreak. pipefan is Dad (and later Nannasprite).
This may be yet proven true however, as what appears to be an unknown troll is shown observing the post-scratch session as of Act 6. To add further credence to the theory of he/she being the one which represents Orphiuchus, his/her console has what appears to be a Rod of Asclepius engraved on top, Asclepius being the Greek deity which Orphiuchus represents
* Jossed. There are at least ''17'' trolls introduced thus far and still relevant to the plot. UU and her brother are also unrelated to the Troll Session we know, which was the spirit of the WMG. Betty Crocker is the Troll Empress, and what seem to be alternate versions of the Trolls (ancestors or descendants) have been appearing in dream bubbles.
[[WMG: Gamzee will revert back to his old self.]]
....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems ''very'' likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.
* Unless [[spoiler: Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo]] I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
* Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.
[[WMG: Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub]]
This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.
* Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
* Still up for grabs! They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
** Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.
[[WMG: Various UU Troll Theories]]
* UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
* UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
** Jossed because the Empress is [[spoiler:Feferi's ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.]]
* UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
** It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
* UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
** Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
** Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
* If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
* UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were [[IncestIsRelative double first cousins,]] it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
** Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
** '''Jossed.''' Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
* UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
* UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
* Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs for speculation on her identity.
[[WMG:Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.]]
Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.
** Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.
[[WMG: Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.]]
Because they're not confirmed yet and ''I feel like it.''
Gamzee Title Ideas:
* Bard of Joy
** It's been confirmed that he's the Bard of ''something,'' anyway.
** [[{{Irony}} Bard Of Memory]]
** [[RuleOfFunny Bard of Fuck I Forgot]]
*** [[AnythingThatMoves Bard of Fuck]]
** Bard of [[CallBack Quest]]
** Bard of Miracles
* Confirmed as Bard of [[UnstoppableRage Rage]]
Eridan Title Ideas:
* Guard of Sound
* Prince of Flame
** Confirmed as Prince of Hope
*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
**** It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".
Eridan Planet Ideas:
* Land of Islands and Vibration
* Land of Depths and Magma
** Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.
[[WMG: Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.]]
Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation.
In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.
* It wouldn't be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004159 Little Advantage]]" with [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004167 disastrous results]] and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
** Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005612 GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R]]. Confirmed?
*** Jossed in spirit. Terezi found out about Vriska's plans only at the end game, and blamed her for ''way'' more than she actually accomplished.
[[WMG: Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.]]
Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with HorrorTerrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.
* Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
** None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of ''them'' far more than they played her.
[[WMG: Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.]]
[[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003227 You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper.]] It's sort of a gray area.
* Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005876 a recent update]], which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
* ''Jossed.'' In two different timelines, one [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005712 doomed,]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005736 one]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741 not.]]
[[WMG: The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.]]
Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from ''somewhere'', after all.
Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be ''so'' into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and ''she's not a queen.'' It's so depraved.
* Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
** Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.
[[WMG: Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.]]
Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)
* Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
** Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.
[[WMG: On troll genetics:]]
In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.
** More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.
[[WMG: Aradia will take vengeance for Tavros.]]
Upon her ascension, she conveniently gained not only the emotions required to once again fully care of one of her best friends from back when she was alive, the emotions required to be distressed of his death, and desire to take vengeance for him just like she did before - but also the sufficient powers to stand up against the murderer, Vriska Serket.
** Aradia isn't planning anything of the sort, besides she knows Tavros isn't "dead" per se.
[[WMG: Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir]]
She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.
* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
** Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
** Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
*** But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.
[[WMG: The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.]]
Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.
The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.
* Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
** He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.
As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a CodeCracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the HorrorTerrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.
** The Felt ''work'' for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.
[[WMG: Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.]]
Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.
* Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.
[[WMG: Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.]]
Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?
* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
** Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.
[[WMG: Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.]]
Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.
* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
** She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
*** Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
**** ''Arguably'' jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006255 "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."]]
***** Plausible, ''maybe?'' Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
***** Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.
[[WMG: Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.]]
His theme song in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 Kanaya: Return to the core]] is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.
* Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
** Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this ''more'' likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
* Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.
[[WMG: The slaughter of the trolls is leading up to a BadFuture, like with Alternate Future Dave]]
God-Tier Aradia will go back in time and make it aaaaall better. I hope.
* It's also possible that Karkat uses Aradia's time travel device to go back and try to fix things. If only because having him meet his own past/future self in person would be hilarious.
* I so very much hope so. Would explain why Future-Karkat and Future-Terezi don't seem to be all that traumatised. Unless -they- came from a BadFuture
** Andrew has Jossed this. I don't have a link unfortunately. Besides, Sollux himself said all the trolls were going to die. We simply assumed it meant dream selves.
[[WMG: The fate of the Trolls]]
With the deaths of Tavros, Feferi and Kanaya, it's not hard to see that the troll bodycount has just begun, and that these initial deaths will be the cause of others. How? Well:
* Terezi will attempt to kill Vriska in order to [[RunningGag make her pay]] for killing Tavros. She will either succeed through superior skill (similar to the first circle of revenge they participated in) and then die shortly afterwards from injuries sustained in the battle, or fail and die followed by Vriska being killed by the newly-ressurected and very pissed (evenmoreso because [Tavros and Terezi are dead) God-Tier Aradia.
** Terezi is actually confirmed to be alive one hour after the mysterious countdown timer goes to zero. Unless Hussie decides to retcon things. Or unless she's being...impersonated.
*** Andrew has hinted he might retcon this
*** She survives the Troll Session.
* If Feferi's death is any indication, Eridan will track down Nepeta and try to kill her for rejecting him. I say try because Equius will step in and defend her from Eridan, dying as a result. Nepeta will finally snap and kill Eridan in a beserker rage, and when the rage subsides she will be traumatized by the experience. Because we all know how much fun [[BreakTheCutie breaking the Cutie]] is.
** Alternately, she runs into Gamzee with a similar result, especially given the scratches on Gamzee's face. Nepeta manages to fend off Gamzee, which explains why he's only painting with his blood, while Nepeta [[Fanon dies from]] [[RunningGag internal bleeding.]]
*** Both Jossed, in that Gamzee killed Equius and scratched ''himself'' with Nepeta's claws before presumably killing her, admittedly via blunt force trauma.
* Aradia and Sollux will reunite and, having been informed of whatever plan will be formed to deal with Jack Noir, will resolve to sacrifice themselves to hold Jack at bay and allow the plan to be completed. While they're gone, [[ObfuscatingStupidity Gamzee]] will reveal himself as the mastermind behind everything and kill Karkat; due to the UnspokenPlanGuarantee hinted at [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004528 here]], this will happen shortly before the Kids attempt to create the Scratch. Nepeta, harboring the red feelings for Karkat that were mentioned [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221 here]], will attempt to kill Gamzee and die as a result. Elsewhere, Sollux and Aradia are killed by Jack Noir.
** For the same reasons as Terezi, Karkat is also alive one hour after the countdown ends.
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005508 This]] Page shows a memory of one of the trolls in a dream bubble, and clearly shows Karkat and Terezi at the very least quite seriously injured, most likely dead. It seems to be a version of Aradia's memory.
*** Sollux is MIA, Karkat is ''probably'' dead, and Aradia is waiting from someone else and not reuniting with anyone.
**** Semi-confirmed, though not in the manner described. Sollux and Aradia are waiting at the Green Sun to help slow down Jack Noir.
* [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005510 This]] page indicates the blood colours of all the trolls who were/will be killed or maimed and subsequently found by Gamzee to write this specific rambling note in their blood. This includes the blood colours of [[spoiler:Feferi, Terezi, Sollux, Nepeta, Kanaya, Eridan, Tavros and Equius]].
** It is mentioned in [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005508 this]] [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005509 arc]] in the dream bubbles that this particular page of rambling honks written by Gamzee on a book about death are situated a doomed timeline, should never have happened and was repaired by at least one version of Aradia. What this means for the future of the trolls, we can only speculate.
[[WMG: Alternative fate of the trolls]]
* Nepeta will die in a horribly ironic manner; her Lusus's namesake [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Ponce_de_Le%C3%B3n Juan Ponce de Leon]], died upon being shot with a poisoned arrow...and Nepeta's Trollian handle is '''arsenic'''Catnip. So Nepeta will die much like Grandpa Harley; Equius will ''finally'' fire a bow at Bec Noir, only for him to redirect it right into Nepeta. This will cause Equius to [[FreakOut flip the fuck out]], and unless someone slaps him out of it (like Aradia in yet more call backs), he's probably going to let Noir stab him to death. However, he's going to die regardless.
** Pounce De Leon died from being crushed in a cave-in.
*** Jossed, clubbed to death by Gamzee
* Eridan will also be stabbed by Noir. [[spoiler: RewardedAsATraitorDeserves]]
** Chainsawed by Kanaya
* Gamzee will undergo DyingAsYourself. It will be a HeroicSacrifice though, as it will allow some of the other trolls to escape to the kids dimension. Unfortunately, they still won't live for much longer.
** Gamzee is still completely insane and pretty much unstoppable.
* Sollux is pretty much doomed. He will probably encounter Terezi and Aradia first, and it's possible he'll die in front of Aradia in another CallBack.
** Yep, d00m c0nfirmed.
*** MIA, possibly dead.
** Update, he's been found. And still alive.
*** Not anymore, though no one caused it but himself.
* Aradia's fate is a bit up in the air, as while she did die already, it was before Sollux made his prediction about the trolls dying. So it's possible she could [[IncrediblyLamePun run out of time again]].
** Immmortal and God tiered. She stopped Jack, if anyone has a chance to survive, it's her.
* Simlarly, Vriska's fate is up in the air because she already died in the game itself. This leads to the possibility that she may be the only surviving troll. On the other hand, Sollux never said that ''only'' he would die twice. There is also some other foreshadowing.
** Doc Scratch says that if he was a gambling man he wouldn't bet on Vriska living to see the "silver lining" (although as another point for Vriska's survival, he never outright says she's going to die).
** Then there's the odd dream sequence with Wayward Vagabond where Vriska appears as a bug: The sequence begins with a reference to an earlier scene with Jade that ended with the line "You eat a bug and you don't even care." Note that Vriska fed trolls to her spider-Lusus.
** Finally there's Terezi's statement that luck dosen't actually matter.
** In conclusion, this troper thinks that Vriska will have a FateWorseThanDeath, or a KarmicDeath as she is ''eaten alive''. For more irony, it will be when she actually does manage to kill Jack Noir.
*** Adding that Vriska might be the last to die. Why? The 8-ball is the last to be pocketed!
*** Stabbed in the chest.
* Finally we have Karkat and Terezi. They will survive past the countdown, and probably enter the kids dimension. Karkat, or at least his weapon, will play a role in defeating John's denizen Typheus- this is because Zeus fought Typehus with a sickle in GreekMythology. However, they are still probably going to die; Karkat and Terezi might be TogetherInDeath, or Terezi will [[DiedInYourArmsTonight die in Karkat's arms]], letting Karkat to deliver a final speech to John before he dies, telling him that he can save all exsistence from certain destruction.
** Again, Karkat is probably already dead.
*** They both survive.
* The kids will then somehow save the troll race from extinction. They might recreate Alternia at the end of their session, playing the role the trolls once played for the kids, or they simply will just use alchemy and ectobiology. Or they'll do both.
** Jossed, the kid's session is barren.
* It is entirely possible that the kids will come across the afterlife at one point, as foreshadowed by Dream Jade and Feferi. If the afterlife is as easy to escape from as ProblemSleuth was, the trolls might be back. But then they might not.
** Even if they are, it isn't likely because the Kids are focusing on hard resetting their session.
*** Actually, its even easier, after all, Sollux could leave simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to...
*** Sollux is an exception.
[[WMG: Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.]]
Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?
* Everyone's dead or doesn't care.
[[WMG: Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.]]
While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.
** Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005263 Lower right hand corner of this page]].
*** Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
*** The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
*** But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he ''hasn't'' seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
**** Jossed. [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005927 Seen here,]] Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.
[[WMG: Karkat's Sburb Title will be important again]]
Kanaya is apparently now a rainbow-drinker, i.e. a bloodsucker. And Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Either he's due to become her protector, or her slayer.
* Alternatively, he's getting stronger the more dead people there are.
* Or he's going to become a more literal BloodKnight.
* He's going to do the Bloody Thing. He even has Spades Slick on a console to bug him into it.
** His title was never unimportant. But the specifics about this are jossed.
[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their {{Famous Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]
Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.
* In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
** Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
* We've already learned that [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 there's a hidden side to the ancestors]], though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.
[[WMG: Nepeta will go on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge]]
The cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.
* Nope. While the marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.
[[WMG: Nepeta is perfectly OK.]]
After all, we didn't see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.
* Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not ''perfectly'' okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
** She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. ''Totally'' alive.
*** Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
**** She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...
[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
* Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.
[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!
* Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.
[[WMG: Due to Ectobiology Shenanigans, there are two Karkats]]
The implications that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally in trolls, along with Kanaya's [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005218 statement]] that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it is not a true paradox clone and is not sent back in time, it is possible that the current Karkat is a mutant clone, which would mean that somewhere there is another Karkat with a different blood color. Since he the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat would have likely done this himself, but have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color to distinguish himself from the others, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.
* Probably Jossed: by all appearances the Signless / Sufferer was a normal ancestor, aside from his blood and flashbacks to the pre-Scratch session.
[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.
* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
*** Jossed.
**** Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
***** Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.
[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.
Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
* This doesn't make any sense, it breaks all known patterns. Anyways, Karkat does have an ancestor, the Sufferer.
* On the more technical side, [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003803 it's implied that each troll actually has ''six''.]]
-->[[color:#626262:CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.]]\\
[[color:#626262:CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.]]\\
** Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
* {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.
[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.]]
* The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
* The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
* Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
** In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
** Probably Jossed... but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's corroboration]] very interesting.
Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.
* The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
* Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
** The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
** Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
** Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
*** Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...
[[WMG: Karkat will survive Gamzee's rage by becoming angry.]]
"But he's always angry", you say? No, he's always ''frustrated''. He's SurroundedByIdiots, and grew up as a red-blooded pariah- there was hardly ever a day when he wasn't frustrated. Remember how he accused Vriska of spreading her hate so thin that it meant nothing? Karkat is the exact same way, never able to express anything more than a dull, simmering bitterness.
But now... His allies are the last trolls in the universe, and they insist on killing each other off. His people are threatened by an OutsideContextVillain that looks just like one of his closest friends. The biggest threat to his well-being is a ''fucking Juggalo''. For the first time in his life, Karkat's simmering blood will finally come to a boil. He's going to get angry, and whatever gets in his way will die horribly.
* And the fact that he may be related to [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005653 His Honorable Tyranny]] may help his case.
** Not related. Also probably dead in all likelihood.
* Also you are assuming that Karkat could ever actually hate anyone other than himself. His own team has regarded his attitude as worry or meddling not actual hatred.
* {{Jossed}}. He defeats Gamzee with ThePowerOfFriendship.
[[WMG: Karkat's ancestor is the reason his blood color is regarded as a mutation.]]
With the revelation that he apparently led a failed rebellion, and the fact that even his symbol became 'heretical', it makes sense that his blood color would also be purged from the hemospectrum. He was probably wiped off the record as well, so that when Karkat was born/left the caves/whatever trolls actually do, he found no evidence to any other troll with blood like his, and regarded himself as a freak. With her long lifespan, the troll Empress is probably the only living troll who remembers the rebellion, so no other troll would have seen blood like his either. The only hitch in this is that the cancer symbol apparently re-entered the system to be Karkat's symbol. Who knows why/how.
** Symbols are assigned in some manner through the trials each troll undergoes. Karkat may have simply been tenacious enough to get a symbol long forgotten. After all, after a few generations, nobody would remember the rebellion ever happened at all.
*** The rebellion was the biggest disaster for troll-kind ever. Not talked about? Sure. Forgotten? Unlikely.
** More likely it's the fact that the sufferers symbol was a red 69 and karkat's flipped that turnways and made it grey. It's like Supermans glasses.
*** Jossed. We now have an explanation for Karkat's symbol: it represents the irons the Sufferer (aka the Signless) died in, and apparently the Sufferer's followers are responsible for him getting it. The blood color was always a mutant one.
[[WMG: The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.]]
Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.
* Jossed... so very jossed...
** Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
*** Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
**** Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
**** Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!
[[WMG: Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal]]
And is indeed impersonating Karkat
* Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
** Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
*** Not anymore on the honor front.
*** To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.
[[WMG: Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, [[spoiler: God tier Tavros that is from the future]]]]
* Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
** Aside from the fact that Tavros is '''DEAD.'''
[[WMG: The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was [[GenerationXerox as nice as Feferi.]]]]
* She was unable to reform the trolls' EvilEmpire because she was a [[PuppetKing puppet empress]] isolated from reality by her [[EvilChancellor advisors]].
** Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
*** [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005658 Original source of name]]
** [=JOSSED=]. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
*** She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
[[WMG: Vriska's death is permanent]]
Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just]]
Vriska's death was not a HeroicSacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to stab her in order to prevent the BadFuture [[SelfDefeatingProphecy she had foreseen]], it was an IDidWhatIHadToDo / ShootTheDog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.
* Jossed again. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just]]
Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and to remain dead would be unjust.
** Jossed. We may [[http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796 never truly know]] what really killed Vriska.
[[WMG: The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.]]
It's stated that Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.
* Probably Jossed, but it does make [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953 Scratch's jossing of it]] particularly interesting.
** They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.
[[WMG: Possibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.]]
She was the Leo troll, after all; also, puns of any kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.
* Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.
** They're SoulPower, whatever the fuck that is.
[[WMG: Karkat had hate sex with Gamzee a) to calm him down or b) to get close enough to kill him.]]
CG: IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT.
* Those purple bloodstains could be from additional wounds on Gamzee, or transferred from his face during a makeout session.
** Alternatively, he could have just engaged in sloppy makeouts with Gamz to 'deal' with him temporarily, hence his refusal to mention it to John. (If the whole 'not a homosexual' thing is a huge cultural barrier for him, Karkat can't imagine trying to explain a blackrom version-- especially if his first conversation with John is so close to appearing on the kid's timeline.)
** It would also correlate closely with Spades and Snowman's "Hate Snog"
** Unlikely; Andrew loves to tease shippers but such blatant sexual actions are right out. As for the makeouts, plausible, but neither of them have ''ever'' displayed any interest in each other.
** Right idea, wrong quadrant. As of the 8/22 update, it's revealed that Karkat calmed down Gamzee via ''moiraillegiance.''
** To add onto the above point, the reason Karkat has purple bloodstains on his face is from when they hugged. If I recall correctly, their cheeks were pressed together, which would be why Karkat now has blood on his face.
[[WMG: Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.]]
PlotArmor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably [[DyingAsYourself back to his old self]] and [[GoOutWithASmile going out with a smile]].
* Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.
[[WMG: The mind honey is a ChekhovsGun.]]
Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a PsychoSerum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.
* Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
* The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
** Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.
[[WMG: Terezi's BeyondTheImpossible SuperSenses are a manifestation of PsychicPowers.]]
That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia to subconsciously make sense of information she percieves with her psychic powers, this is why Tavros's blood smells like chocolate [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004641 here]], but not [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005264 here]], and why she smells Karkat's blood colour, Dave's text and human blood colour as candy red, but smells Sollux's eye colourz as appleberry blast even though his red eye's the same shade. The smelloscope is either a MagicFeather or a [[AmplifierArtifact psychic lense]] allowing her to focus her perception on distant targets.
* Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.
[[WMG: Karkat's corpsesmooch is what cause Kanaya to become a Rainbow Drinker.]]
Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Rainbow Drinkers are like vampires and are associated with blood. There is clearly some connection.
* Andrew has specifically jossed this one to my knowledge. Something to do with her own role as a Slyph + her past on Alternia. Karkat's powers are unrelated.
** It seems that all the players have abilities before they enter that are not related to their aspects. The time players both control time but one could flash step before he entered the game and the other had telekinesis before she entered the game. Kanaya may have been destined to become a Rainbowdrinker all along but had to die in order for it to happen.
[[WMG: The "Karkat" John is talking to is actually Gamzee]]
Quote: "IT WAS. A MOTHERFUCKING. JOKE.". One of Gamzee's personalities types the same way.
* Because we all know Karkat never references other quirks of the trolls.
** What would be the point of that? Also if it is really Gamzee he is doing a spot on imitation.
* Extremely, extremely unlikely, if not Jossed, for a couple of reasons. 1: If you're implying that Gamzee killed Karkat offscreen, keep in mind that Doc Scratch had ''just'' got done saying "What sort of story would this be, with our Knight and Seer made to stay cadavers? Certainly not one the alpha timeline would allow. And not one [Terezi] would allow either." In that sense, does it really matter whether it's Bec Noir or Gamzee that kills Karkat and Terezi? 2: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005767 We SAW Karkat, drenched in Gamzee's blood, at Vriska's computer.]]
* So very {{Jossed}} as of 8/22.
[[WMG: J is also the grandson of Vriska]]
They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.
* John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.
[[WMG: Karkat and John have Inter-species relations and Karkat is his own ancestor]]
In either the alpha timeline or a split time line, Karkat and John have delicious hate(on karkat's side)/love(on johns side) sex and Karkat is made the old fashion way, by submitting their generic material in that mass bucket of incestuous slurry.
John, being human and having red blood, is the wild card in the troll reproduction cycle that gives Karkat his red blood.
* Jossed. Karkat's ancestor is the Sufferer, there was a whole sequence about it remember? His rebellion was so pants shittingly terrifying that he and his blood color were wiped from history.
[[WMG: Karkat lobotomized Gamzee.]]
Gamzee was mellow due to the effects of the supor slime pies affecting his brain. Karkat realized that, and, unwilling to kill a troll he's considered his very best friend since the beginning, opted to return Gamzee to the way he was by using his sickles to give his friend a lobotomy, so he'll have no memories of him being a descended Subjugglator.
* 1. How would Karkat even know how to lobotomize someone? 2. How do you lobotomize someone with a siccle? 3. Is Gamzee just standing still while this is happening or did Kanaya kick him in the balls again? 4. A lobotomy is not laser guided amnesia it is the process of cutting appart the brain, he wouldn't be back to his soper self he would be catatonic.
** 1. You're talking about somebody who created 12 babies from scratch, creates viruses that destroy computers and is generally the only sane man in a clique of trolls that have various psychological problems. I think he's capable. 2. [[http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/f/f3/HSYL.png Watch the curve of the blades.]] Simply drive both into the frontal cortex. 3. Ambush. 4. The effects of a lobotomy varies. [[http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-30/health/pdg.lobotomy_1_mental-illness-lobotomy-transorbital?_s=PM:HEALTH Some people who have had them still go on to lead normal, if somewhat different lives.]] DidNotDoTheResearch, much?
*** The machine made the babies, he pressed buttons. Sollux made the virus Karkat executed it. [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Icepicks1.jpg Straight needle-thin objects]] are required for lobotomization and a siccle may not be thin enough. Ambush the guy who teleports might actually work (have worked? since it technically already happened we just didn't see it) seeing as it was already done against Dave by Bro, however Bro did have the same ability. It is true that the results of lobotomies is veriable and that they are still done today, but not on mental patients. It's done on epilepsy patients to basically kill the part of the brain causing the problems. Did do the research.
* {{Jossed}}.
[[WMG: Eridan is a closet asexual.]]
In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.
* Feferi is the only one who knew.
* Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
** Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
*** Remember that providing reproductive materials is manditory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.
[[WMG: That's not Gamzee Flashstepping]]
Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.
* Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).
[[WMG: Aradia is Betty Crocker]]
All the precieved evil that she has done is actually just her trying to preserve the timelines.
* She could have time shenanigans to give Dave the miracles video.
[[WMG: Aradia is the Cuestick of the Felt.]]
...or at least, Doc Scratch is trying to make her fill this role. Look at her hair in this strip [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005935 here.]] Those are mini cuesticks embedded in it.
* LordEnglish is the cuestick, which makes a lot more sense. The Handmaiden merely has the mini cuestick to indicate her affiliation.
[[WMG: The Aradia we're seeing is Dream!Aradia]]
Doc is taking her to the crypt in Derse we saw in [S] Wake, where she will/did ascend to God Tier later.
* Jossed. See below.
[[WMG: Sollux Captor is the Tumor]]
When he was speaking with Aradia in front of the green sun, whilst flying, he's shown to have one black eye and one white eye. This makes sense because Sollux can fly himself into the green sun, thus preventing two of the main characters' deaths.
* Jossed. Both the Tumor and the cause of Sollux's death are very different.
[[WMG: Vriska will destroy the Green Sun]]
Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.
* Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
* Light=Fortune
[[WMG: Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary]]
Two words: [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005963 "troll fanfiction"]]. Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at ''least'' the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?
[[WMG: The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.]]
Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005964 here.]] That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.
* This is totally left field but [[ComicallyMissingThePoint where the fuck is her nose?]]
[[WMG: Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness]]
By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.
* The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
** Seemingly that is the case.
[[WMG: Karkat's Knight of Blood title means he can control people's bloodlust]]
Which is how he's able to calm Gamzee and keep his RagtagBunchOfMisfits together for so long.
* That would seemingly fall under the dominion of Rage.
[[WMG: Sollux isn't going to die after the events of [S] Cascade.]]
It looks like he's sacrificing himself, but he's not going to die. According to the Homestuck Laws of Symmetry, he actually CAN'T. If you look at it this way, there are an even number of kids and an even number of trolls, an even number of Prospit and Derse dreamers (Sollux himself being the only exception), and most importantly, an even number of boys and girls. If Sollux died, one of the three remaining troll girls would have to die (I'm not counting UU because she's already an outlier in this situation). Aradia can't die unless it's heroic or just, Kanaya presumably can't die because she's a rainbow drinker (I'm not sure how that works though), and Terezi can't die because Doc Scratch himself said the Alpha Timeline wouldn't allow it. Previous troll deaths have also come in boy/girl pairs; Tavros and Feferi (who incidentally were both killed by the people who were romantically interested in them), and Equius and Nepeta. Based on that, it would have to be Aradia that dies if Sollux does, and as God Tier, I don't think she will be dying any time soon.
TL;DR, Based on HS Laws of Symmetry, Sollux won't be dying unless one of the troll girls is going to die too (and for all intents and purposes, that's impossible for now).
Anyway, that's the WHY he's not dead yet. As for the HOW, I think it's going to have something to do with his once-mentioned and as-of-yet unrevealed Prospit dreamself.
* Jossed. He dies.
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