History WMG / Frozen

25th Feb '17 4:48:45 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
Is there an issue? Send a Message


WordOfGod has it that Hans' older brothers weren't much better than Hans was. Once the king of the Southern Isles dies, even if he names one of his oldest sons as his heir, that legitimacy will be challenged and before long the Southern Isles will end up looking like [[Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire Westeros]]. As the brothers fight among themselves, Hans will offer his services to the highest bidder, changing loyalties as different factions gain the upper hand, until one of his brothers demonstrates enough GenreSavvy to run a sword through him. Elsa will end up deploying her navy to defend the neighboring kingdom of [[Disney/{{Tangled}} Corona]] as some of the brothers attempt to conquer neighboring kingdoms to consolidate their base. In the end the Westergard clan will end in bloodshed, Elsa will annex the Southern Isles into Arendelle and the people of the Southern Isles will enjoy a new age of peace and prosperity, heralding Elsa as the liberator who overthrew the hated Westergard line.

to:

WordOfGod has it that Hans' older brothers weren't much better than Hans was. Once the king of the Southern Isles dies, even if he names one of his oldest sons as his heir, that legitimacy will be challenged and before long the Southern Isles will end up looking like [[Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire Westeros]]. As the brothers fight among themselves, Hans will offer his services to the highest bidder, changing loyalties as different factions gain the upper hand, until one of his brothers demonstrates enough GenreSavvy to run runs a sword through him. Elsa will end up deploying her navy to defend the neighboring kingdom of [[Disney/{{Tangled}} Corona]] as some of the brothers attempt to conquer neighboring kingdoms to consolidate their base. In the end the Westergard clan will end in bloodshed, Elsa will annex the Southern Isles into Arendelle and the people of the Southern Isles will enjoy a new age of peace and prosperity, heralding Elsa as the liberator who overthrew the hated Westergard line.
23rd Feb '17 2:52:16 AM SwankyTower
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family structure destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''do not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.

to:

*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family structure destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character Female characters '''do not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.
23rd Feb '17 2:46:32 AM SwankyTower
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family structure destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''does not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.

to:

*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family structure destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''does '''do not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.
23rd Feb '17 12:40:28 AM SwankyTower
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''does not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.

to:

*** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family structure destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''does not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.
23rd Feb '17 12:08:56 AM SwankyTower
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

**** 'Human decency and good writing' in the eyes of the Cultural Marxists, that is, those who want to see the traditional family destroyed as part of their Globalist agenda. A female character '''does not''' have to exhibit [[StrawFeminist feminist behaviours]] in order to have character depth.
15th Feb '17 7:04:48 AM MawofWinter
Is there an issue? Send a Message


What if Hans changing his act had nothing to do with being power hungry usurper? Maybe he just learned the true extent of the death toll of Elsa's initial rampage to the kingdom, saw the mountains of frozen corpses people had dug up from the snow in the mean time and decided that Elsa and Anna were thoroughly incompetent as rulers. Maybe he realized that Elsa and Anna were both uncaring, neglectful narcissists who didn't care about their own subjects' suffering one bit and decided that the kingdom would be better off without them. Hans's claim to Anna that he wanted the throne may have been simply his attempt to spare dying Anna's feelings before she died. There was no need for him to reveal her, what a horrible ruler he thought she was. Let her die thinking that he was just being a selfish jerk after the throne. Let her think that she is just an innocent victim rather than a terrible threat to the kingdom that needs to be removed for the kingdom to prosper.

to:

What if Hans changing his act had nothing to do with being power hungry usurper? Maybe he just learned the true extent of the death toll of Elsa's initial rampage to the kingdom, saw the mountains of frozen corpses people had dug up from the snow in the mean time and decided that Elsa and Anna were thoroughly incompetent as rulers. Maybe he realized that Elsa and Anna were both uncaring, neglectful narcissists who didn't care about their own subjects' suffering one bit and decided that the kingdom would be better off without them. Hans's claim to Anna that he wanted the throne may have been simply his attempt to spare dying Anna's feelings before she died. There was no need for him to reveal her, what a horrible ruler he thought she was. Let her die thinking that he was just being a selfish jerk after the throne. Let her think that she is just an innocent victim rather than a terrible threat to the kingdom that needs to be removed eliminated for the kingdom good of the people. She doesn't need to prosper.
know, how many mothers cry in the city over their corpsicle children. This also explains why Hans neglects to get married with Anna and thus insert himself to the succession of the crown before her death. He doesn't really care about the throne at this point.
15th Feb '17 5:35:32 AM MawofWinter
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Once Anna is dead, Hans can put Elsa on trial for her atrocities counting on her guilt to prevent her from murdering the court. For all we know Hans might not even cared for the throne for himself. However, when Anna and Elsa break free and defeat Hans, the budding revolution withers and no one dares to protest the continuation of Elsa's reign of terror, happy songs and casual mass murder.


to:

Once Anna is dead, Hans can put Elsa on trial for her atrocities counting on her guilt to prevent her from murdering the court. For all we know Hans might not even have cared for the throne for himself. himself, although saving the kingdom from a mass murdering ice witch may have led to the noblemen to elect him to the throne. However, when Anna and Elsa break free and defeat Hans, the budding revolution withers withers. Anyone wishing for revolution quiets down in fear and no one dares to protest further the continuation of Elsa's reign of terror, happy songs and casual mass murder.

15th Feb '17 5:28:50 AM MawofWinter
Is there an issue? Send a Message


What if Hans changing his act had nothing to do with being power hungry usurper? Maybe he just learned the true extent of the death toll of Elsa's initial rampage to the kingdom, saw the mountains of frozen corpses and decided that Elsa and Anna were thoroughly incompetent as rulers. Maybe he realized that Elsa and Anna were both uncaring, neglectful narcissists who didn't care about their own subjects' suffering one bit and decided that the kingdom would be better off without them. Hans's claim to Anna that he wanted the throne may have been simply his attempt to spare dying Anna's feelings before she died. There was no need for him to reveal her, what a horrible ruler he thought she was. Let her die thinking that he was just being a selfish jerk after the throne. Let her think that she is just an innocent victim rather than a terrible threat to the kingdom that needs to be removed for the kingdom to prosper.


to:

What if Hans changing his act had nothing to do with being power hungry usurper? Maybe he just learned the true extent of the death toll of Elsa's initial rampage to the kingdom, saw the mountains of frozen corpses people had dug up from the snow in the mean time and decided that Elsa and Anna were thoroughly incompetent as rulers. Maybe he realized that Elsa and Anna were both uncaring, neglectful narcissists who didn't care about their own subjects' suffering one bit and decided that the kingdom would be better off without them. Hans's claim to Anna that he wanted the throne may have been simply his attempt to spare dying Anna's feelings before she died. There was no need for him to reveal her, what a horrible ruler he thought she was. Let her die thinking that he was just being a selfish jerk after the throne. Let her think that she is just an innocent victim rather than a terrible threat to the kingdom that needs to be removed for the kingdom to prosper.

Once Anna is dead, Hans can put Elsa on trial for her atrocities counting on her guilt to prevent her from murdering the court. For all we know Hans might not even cared for the throne for himself. However, when Anna and Elsa break free and defeat Hans, the budding revolution withers and no one dares to protest the continuation of Elsa's reign of terror, happy songs and casual mass murder.

14th Feb '17 7:51:13 AM MawofWinter
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Hans's betrayal was not caused by lust for power, but being horrified at the realization of how irresponsible Elsa and Anna would be as rulers:]]

The troubles begin, when Elsa freaks out and starts the ice age in her own kingdom and runs away. We don't learn about the consequences of Elsa's freezing spree, because of NoEndorHolocaust, but there is no way an entire city being plunged from the middle of summer into an ice age in an instant doesn't kill thousands of people. How many people get caught outside in a freezing weather in their summer clothes? How many of those homes have their windows open? How many people have firewood stocked? How many children were playing in the beaches with their feet in the water when it froze over? Even running to the home and digging up some winter clothing could take such a long time that there had to be dozens of casualties.

Elsa freaks out after being touched and responds by plunging her own kingdom into an ice age. Then, instead of helping her own subjects in their hour of need she abandons them in a massive tantrum. The safety of thousands of people doesn't even factor into her mind. Anna is almost as bad. After Elsa froze up her own kingdom and bolted, the responsibility over the people transfers to princess Anna, but what does she do? Does she make sure that people don't freeze to death or that everyone is safe? No, it doesn't even enter into her mind. She only thinks about her sister, the cause of the whole mess. She dumps the crown on a stranger she just met that day. Just about any other person in the city would have made a more responsible choice to guide the kingdom through this recent crisis. She just abandons everyone to a cold death to go and help the only person in the kingdom guaranteed to not have to worry about freezing to death in the next couple of hours.

Prince Hans is left with the responsibility of helping the citizens of the kingdom not die horribly in this instant Ice age and for what we know, he does this job with admirable responsibility and swiftness. He is acting with the kind of care a responsible ruler should act. How many people he saved from a freezing death? Then Prince Hans becomes worried about Anna and mounts a rescue mission. He still acts all fine and heroic, even talks Elsa out of becoming a monster - in full contradiction to the opportunistic-throne-snatcher-story. It is only after Hans returns to the city that he reveals he wants both Anna and Elsa dead and himself on the throne.

What if Hans changing his act had nothing to do with being power hungry usurper? Maybe he just learned the true extent of the death toll of Elsa's initial rampage to the kingdom, saw the mountains of frozen corpses and decided that Elsa and Anna were thoroughly incompetent as rulers. Maybe he realized that Elsa and Anna were both uncaring, neglectful narcissists who didn't care about their own subjects' suffering one bit and decided that the kingdom would be better off without them. Hans's claim to Anna that he wanted the throne may have been simply his attempt to spare dying Anna's feelings before she died. There was no need for him to reveal her, what a horrible ruler he thought she was. Let her die thinking that he was just being a selfish jerk after the throne. Let her think that she is just an innocent victim rather than a terrible threat to the kingdom that needs to be removed for the kingdom to prosper.

12th Feb '17 4:03:24 PM Luigifan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [[spoiler:Given the finale, Jossed until character derailment]]

to:

* [[spoiler:Given the finale, Jossed until character derailment]]derailment.]]



[[WMG:Alternatively, Elsa's curse is Disney's way of sneaking in the mirror shard from the original story]]

to:

[[WMG:Alternatively, Elsa's curse is Disney's way of sneaking in the mirror shard from the original story]]story.]]



A lot of animal sidekicks in Disney films have been following this trend. From the description of being "mangy" with only one antler, he'll probably fall under UglyCute, but will be oddly endearing. (Pardon the pun.) It goes without saying that Sven plushies will be all the rage in Christmas 2013

* Doing that would just make him too much like Maximus from ''Tangled''. But that may be the point due to the horse's popularity. If they make Sven voiceless they will really need to write him cleverly to make him his own character.

to:

A lot of animal sidekicks in Disney films have been following this trend. From the description of being "mangy" with only one antler, he'll probably fall under UglyCute, but will be oddly endearing. (Pardon the pun.) It goes without saying that Sven plushies will be all the rage in Christmas 2013

2013.

* Doing that would just make him too much like Maximus from ''Tangled''. But that may be the point due to the horse's popularity. If they make Sven voiceless voiceless, they will really need to write him cleverly to make him his own character.



Elsa knew all along that Hans was a Jerkass who just wanted to marry into Arendellian royalty so that he could eventually rule Arendelle, and she also knew that Anna would never believe that (especially coming from someone who had been so cold to her for most of her life). And after she told Hans that she didn't know how to end the endless winter, she knew that he was going to try to kill her, and that's why she escaped from the dungeon.

to:

Elsa knew all along that Hans was a Jerkass {{Jerkass}} who just wanted to marry into Arendellian royalty so that he could eventually rule Arendelle, and she also knew that Anna would never believe that (especially coming from someone who had been so cold to her for most of her life). And after she told Hans that she didn't know how to end the endless winter, she knew that he was going to try to kill her, and that's why she escaped from the dungeon.



She's already convinced she can't undo what she's done to Arendelle, she gets a lot of innocent pleasure out of creating her palace/making over her wardrobe and feeling like she can let her powers flow freely, but she's already begun ''creating sentient life'', both by accident (Olaf) and on purpose (Marshmallow). She's already under the impression at least (though it doesn't seem to be the case) that the townspeople are horrified by her powers (rather than just surprised/astounded). If not for her sister, she wouldn't have gone back, and after so long having to keep her feelings tightly bottled up and under cover, it's easy to imagine those negative emotions bubbling up in isolation and [[StartOfDarkness souring her entirely.]]

to:

She's already convinced she can't undo what she's done to Arendelle, she gets a lot of innocent pleasure out of creating her palace/making over her wardrobe and feeling like she can let her powers flow freely, but she's already begun ''creating sentient life'', both by accident (Olaf) and on purpose (Marshmallow). She's already under the impression at least (though it doesn't seem to be the case) that the townspeople are horrified by her powers (rather than just surprised/astounded). If not for her sister, she wouldn't have gone back, and after so long having to keep her feelings tightly bottled up and under cover, it's easy to imagine those negative emotions bubbling up in isolation and [[StartOfDarkness souring her entirely.]]entirely]].



It's also interesting to note that both Rapunzel and Elsa have different hair colors than their respective parents. Both have parents with brown hair, but Rapunzel (whose magic relates to the sun) has golden hair, while Elsa (whose magic relates to ice and snow) has almost white (well, platinum blonde is the actual name for the color) hair. Also, her sister Anna has strawberry-blonde hair which slowly changes to white once she's hit by Elsa's magic. Assuming that ''Tangled'' and ''Frozen'' both take place in the same universe (which is not too far out, considering Rapunzel's cameo in the latter), it's quite possible that one of the "symptoms" of (elemental) magic in this world is indeed hair color. Also, Grand Pabbie asks the king whether Elsa was born with the powers or cursed, which means that magic in this world can 'just happen' like with Elsa or originate from an outside source like with Rapunzel (who was technically born with her powers and not cursed, but still got them from an outside source)

* There's certainly ''something'' different about Elsa's hair. Unlike Rapunzel's it doesn't grow abnormally long- both girls' hair is probably about elbow-to-waist length when loose, which is long but easily within normal limits- but Elsa's animators confirm that she has ''400,000'' strands of hair on her head- roughly four times the normal number for a human with a full head of hair. (Presumably she keeps it braided practically at all times: Anna's bedhead would be ''nothing'' compared to what that could do.)

to:

It's also interesting to note that both Rapunzel and Elsa have different hair colors than their respective parents. Both have parents with brown hair, but Rapunzel (whose magic relates to the sun) has golden hair, while Elsa (whose magic relates to ice and snow) has almost white (well, platinum blonde is the actual name for the color) hair. Also, her sister Anna has strawberry-blonde hair which slowly changes to white once she's hit by Elsa's magic. Assuming that ''Tangled'' and ''Frozen'' both take place in the same universe (which is not too far out, considering Rapunzel's cameo in the latter), it's quite possible that one of the "symptoms" of (elemental) magic in this world is indeed hair color. Also, Grand Pabbie asks the king whether Elsa was born with the powers or cursed, which means that magic in this world can 'just happen' like with Elsa or originate from an outside source like with Rapunzel (who was technically born with her powers and not cursed, but still got them from an outside source)

source).

* There's certainly ''something'' different about Elsa's hair. Unlike Rapunzel's Rapunzel's, it doesn't grow abnormally long- long -- both girls' hair is probably about elbow-to-waist length when loose, which is long but easily within normal limits- limits -- but Elsa's animators confirm that she has ''400,000'' strands of hair on her head- head a- roughly four times the normal number for a human with a full head of hair. (Presumably she keeps it braided practically at all times: Anna's bedhead would be ''nothing'' compared to what that could do.)



*** However, while people with albinism have eyes that look similar to Elsa's, it comes with significant visual impairment, which Elsa doesn't have (if she had albinism the bright sunlight in the epilogue scene would really hurt her eyes, among other things). Elsa also has very faint freckling and her eyebrows are slightly darker than her hair (as are her eyelashes- as an adult she always wears make-up but it's still noticeable when she's a child), which means she doesn't have an impairment of pigmentation, just very, very little (which is not ''that'' rare in Scandinavia, though still fairly unusual in an adult).
*** At the very least, Elsa has some traits of an albino, like really pale skin.

to:

*** However, while people with albinism have eyes that look similar to Elsa's, it comes with significant visual impairment, which Elsa doesn't have (if she had albinism albinism, the bright sunlight in the epilogue scene would really hurt her eyes, among other things). Elsa also has very faint freckling and her eyebrows are slightly darker than her hair (as are her eyelashes- eyelashes -- as an adult adult, she always wears make-up make-up, but it's still noticeable when she's a child), which means she doesn't have an impairment of pigmentation, just very, very little (which is not ''that'' rare in Scandinavia, though still fairly unusual in an adult).
*** At the very least, Elsa has some traits of an albino, like really pale skin. skin.



*** It's a real world case of HideYourLesbians, as placing Anna into a childhood friend roll would be trivially easy the way the movie is set up. Also, when has Disney meant ANYTHING other than romantic love when referring to true love? Anna never said "I love you like a sister", just "I love you".

to:

*** It's a real world case of HideYourLesbians, as placing Anna into a childhood friend roll role would be trivially easy the way the movie is set up. Also, when has Disney meant ANYTHING other than romantic love when referring to true love? Anna never said "I love you like a sister", just "I love you".



*** It's about being free of anxiety, finally. Word of God has been laid down.

to:

*** It's about being free of anxiety, finally. Word of God WordOfGod has been laid down.



*** First off, while anxiety disorders are not actively shamed, at least, not in today's society, there are still many people who don't bother to sympathize with those who have them, or lump them into prejudices that affect those with mental and emotional disorders at large. Secondly, there are in fact disorders that can cause anxiety that you are born with--I'm pretty sure that's essentially being born with anxiety, so I'm not sure why you said it wasn't. Additionally, there are disorders that cause people to lash out in rage at their loved ones, become paranoid of them, close themselves off, have dramatic and powerful mood swings, etc. Most importantly, if you thought that Elsa's main problem in the movie was persecution then you missed a very fundamental aspect of her character, one that she herself comments on several times--not a fear of being hated but a fear of ''hurting Anna.'' As in, actually hurting her, not just disappointing her or getting her condemned by association. While there are still elements of the problem that can indicate homosexuality, or counter beliefs, or whatever the person watching chooses to associate with Elsa's struggle, the aspect of loosing control of herself, and the fears relating to that, are more in line with mental disorders-ie anxiety related ones. At the very least it is a very viable interpretation, and not one that should be so quickly shut down. Lastly, not sure why it ''wouldn't'' be about suffering anxiety--does Elsa not seem to be incredibly anxious about her powers through most of the film? Would someone who's gay and hiding it not have anxiety?

to:

*** First off, while anxiety disorders are not actively shamed, at least, not in today's society, there are still many people who don't bother to sympathize with those who have them, or lump them into prejudices that affect those with mental and emotional disorders at large. Secondly, there are in fact disorders that can cause anxiety that you are born with--I'm pretty sure that's essentially being born with anxiety, so I'm not sure why you said it wasn't. Additionally, there are disorders that cause people to lash out in rage at their loved ones, become paranoid of them, close themselves off, have dramatic and powerful mood swings, etc. Most importantly, if you thought that Elsa's main problem in the movie was persecution then you missed a very fundamental aspect of her character, one that she herself comments on several times--not a fear of being hated but a fear of ''hurting Anna.'' As in, actually hurting her, not just disappointing her or getting her condemned by association. While there are still elements of the problem that can indicate homosexuality, or counter beliefs, or whatever the person watching chooses to associate with Elsa's struggle, the aspect of loosing control of herself, and the fears relating to that, are more in line with mental disorders-ie anxiety related ones. At the very least it is a very viable interpretation, and not one that should be so quickly shut down. Lastly, not sure why it ''wouldn't'' be about suffering anxiety--does anxiety -- does Elsa not seem to be incredibly anxious about her powers through most of the film? Would someone who's gay and hiding it not have anxiety?



* Especially likely since she spent her childhood wearing heavy clothes and gloves when she wasn't locking herself in her room, and was terrified of her own ''family'' touching her because she didn't want to hurt them by accident. Sex involves lots of skin-to-skin contact as well as intense emotions. Plus there's the WordOfGod stating she has depression and anxiety issues, which are both very unhelpful for someone's libido--and she may not even have a sex drive ''to'' repress, given how she was so young when the castle was isolated.
* Actually from a Freudian perspective- especially as Elsa is almost contemporary with Freud- this almost painfully stacks up as a (very 19th century) female sexuality allegory. As a child Elsa's powers are a part of her that she experiments with without worry or embarrassment, until her parents and a pseudo-religious figure intervene and tell her that it's dangerous and has to be 'controlled', whereupon she tries to hide it away, but as an adolescent it starts getting more powerful until denying her nature means she can barely function. In maturity her composure breaks completely- coincidentally when an attractive young man is brought into her family (or, for those who want to think otherwise, when she's confronted with Anna wanting to embark on a romantic relationship). After her breakdown she finds that her mature powers are hugely pleasurable, beautiful and creates miraculous things... but it's when they're controlled with ''love'' that she's able to express them freely and be healthily integrated in society. (It's a tiresome allegory but it ''works''.)

to:

* Especially likely since she spent her childhood wearing heavy clothes and gloves when she wasn't locking herself in her room, and was terrified of her own ''family'' touching her because she didn't want to hurt them by accident. Sex involves lots of skin-to-skin contact as well as intense emotions. Plus there's the WordOfGod stating she has depression and anxiety issues, which are both very unhelpful for someone's libido--and libido -- and she may not even have a sex drive ''to'' repress, given how she was so young when the castle was isolated.
* Actually from a Freudian perspective- perspective -- especially as Elsa is almost contemporary with Freud- Freud -- this almost painfully stacks up as a (very 19th century) female sexuality allegory. As a child Elsa's powers are a part of her that she experiments with without worry or embarrassment, until her parents and a pseudo-religious figure intervene and tell her that it's dangerous and has to be 'controlled', whereupon she tries to hide it away, but as an adolescent it starts getting more powerful until denying her nature means she can barely function. In maturity maturity, her composure breaks completely- completely -- coincidentally when an attractive young man is brought into her family (or, for those who want to think otherwise, when she's confronted with Anna wanting to embark on a romantic relationship). After her breakdown she finds that her mature powers are hugely pleasurable, beautiful beautiful, and creates miraculous things... but it's when they're controlled with ''love'' that she's able to express them freely and be healthily integrated in society. (It's a tiresome allegory allegory, but it ''works''.)



[[WMG:Expanding on the ideas above Elsa has incestuous feelings towards Anna.]]
Now I'm not trying to sell the shipping here, that's not it at all, but the king and queen locked them away in the castle separately until they were teenagers. They basically isolated Anna and Elsa from the outside world and family as well as the only real friends they've known for their entire lives. They've basically hammered in that Elsa should be afraid of herself and repressed her emotions for years instead of helping her through them. Then they died and she had no emotional guidance at all until the coronation when she was let out. Humans are social creatures and need contact with other people and so sometimes people in extreme isolation or even extremely stressful situations can form strong relationships with who or whatever they can, even sometimes romantic ones. Take Stockholm Syndrome when people in an extremely stressful situation (being abducted) form a romantic relationship with the person who abducted them. Same principle, it would make sense that Elsa would attach almost almost all of her emotion to Anna because that's pretty much the only person that she is close to in this world aside her parents and I would definitely say that being in extreme isolation just paved the way for it. That could include the romantic feelings she never learned to express properly on her own. Plus the subtext between them is amazingly strong!
* [[{{Literature/Worm}} There's a precedent, including the superpowers and isolation,]] with [[spoiler: Panacea and Glory Girl]], because the separation could prevent the Westermarck Effect from setting in.

to:

[[WMG:Expanding on the ideas above above, Elsa has incestuous feelings towards Anna.]]
Now Now, I'm not trying to sell the shipping here, that's not it at all, but the king and queen locked them away in the castle separately until they were teenagers. They basically isolated Anna and Elsa from the outside world and family as well as the only real friends they've known for their entire lives. They've basically hammered in that Elsa should be afraid of herself and repressed her emotions for years instead of helping her through them. Then they died and she had no emotional guidance at all until the coronation when she was let out. Humans are social creatures and need contact with other people and so sometimes people in extreme isolation or even extremely stressful situations can form strong relationships with who or whatever they can, even sometimes romantic ones. Take Stockholm Syndrome when people in an extremely stressful situation (being abducted) form a romantic relationship with the person who abducted them. Same principle, it would make sense that Elsa would attach almost almost all of her emotion to Anna because that's pretty much the only person that she is close to in this world aside her parents and I would definitely say that being in extreme isolation just paved the way for it. That could include the romantic feelings she never learned to express properly on her own. Plus the subtext between them is amazingly strong!
* [[{{Literature/Worm}} There's a precedent, including the superpowers and isolation,]] with [[spoiler: Panacea [[spoiler:Panacea and Glory Girl]], because the separation could prevent the Westermarck Effect from setting in.



At the same time the drop of sunlight fell in Corona, a drop of the icy moonlight fell in a kingdom near Arendelle. The king absorbed it and he and his descendants had powers just like Elsa, and eventually there was an unrelated war between this kingdom and Arendelle. The dispute was settled by 1400, with a marriage for the heirs of each kingdom. Since the King of Arendelle didn't want his children to have powers over ice and snow, the trolls made sure for "400 years, shall the powers be dormant", cue 400 years later (''Frozen'' is set in the early 19th century?) when Elsa was born, the first royal birth in the family after the curse was broken- explaining why her parents weren't surprised that she had powers and accepted them at first.

to:

At the same time the drop of sunlight fell in Corona, a drop of the icy moonlight fell in a kingdom near Arendelle. The king absorbed it and he and his descendants had powers just like Elsa, and eventually there was an unrelated war between this kingdom and Arendelle. The dispute was settled by 1400, with a marriage for the heirs of each kingdom. Since the King of Arendelle didn't want his children to have powers over ice and snow, the trolls made sure for "400 years, shall the powers be dormant", dormant"; cue 400 years later (''Frozen'' is set in the early 19th century?) when Elsa was born, the first royal birth in the family after the curse was broken- broken. A- explaining why her parents weren't surprised that she had powers and accepted them at first.



Once word of a young, unmarried, female WMD with a petty kingdom of her own gets out every crowned head in Europe that does not feel their pants growing tight at the prospect of unleashing Elsa's power against their enemies will be soiling them at the prospect of their enemies unleashing said powers on them [[note]]Yes, yes, she is not that sort... but how many kings[=/=]princes[=/=]etc. operating on partial second-hand reports will be willing to take that chance?[[/note]]. The young, unmarried, and female aspects will make the means of alliance or control obvious; although with any luck the incoming bridegrooms will be more straightforward and less ambitious than [[spoiler:Hans]].
* Someone has already suggested here that Hans' throwaway line about how 'no-one was getting anywhere' with Elsa meant that she'd already ''had'' a number of, if not proposals, a number of potential suitors approaching her- possibly by letter- with the idea that they might be the sort of person it would be appropriate to consider to be her husband, sometime, maybe (and has brushed them all off, for reasons that weren't known at the time.)

to:

Once word of a young, unmarried, female WMD with a petty kingdom of her own gets out out, every crowned head in Europe that does not feel their pants growing tight at the prospect of unleashing Elsa's power against their enemies will be soiling them at the prospect of their enemies unleashing said powers on them them. [[note]]Yes, yes, she is not that sort... but how many kings[=/=]princes[=/=]etc. operating on partial second-hand reports will be willing to take that chance?[[/note]]. chance?[[/note]] The young, unmarried, and female aspects will make the means of alliance or control obvious; although with any luck luck, the incoming bridegrooms will be more straightforward and less ambitious than [[spoiler:Hans]].
* Someone has already suggested here that Hans' throwaway line about how 'no-one was getting anywhere' with Elsa meant that she'd already ''had'' a number of, if not proposals, a number of potential suitors approaching her- her -- possibly by letter- letter -- with the idea that they might be the sort of person it would be appropriate to consider to be her husband, sometime, maybe (and has brushed them all off, for reasons that weren't known at the time.)
time).



When Elsa was told to conceal her powers she internalised them and froze her own heart so as not to feel anything. This is why she goes from "Conceal it, don't feel it," to simply "Conceal, don't feel." This is why her ice can't melt or be thawed. [[spoiler:Her own tears after Anna freezes melted her heart and allowed her to thaw the neverending winter.]] Also ties in nicely with the original tale.

[[WMG:Elsa's behavior in the three skipped-over years was partly a result of being unable to face her parents' death- and the King had already accidentally given her a lesson in denial tactics]]
As well as the pain of anyone having such a terrible loss, Elsa is left devastatingly lonely by her parents' sudden death- she's estranged from Anna and the powers that control her life completely are now secret from anyone but her. Her father was at least seeming the guide her in her struggles for control- now she's alone. How does she deal with it? She ''conceals'' as much evidence of their passing to herself as she can, to try to avoid ''feeling'' it.
* She's technically the Queen, but avoids being crowned or taking on her duties- despite the fact that even in this century monarchs of 18 and younger have been very successful (Elsa would be just a little youngler than [[UsefulNotes/QueenVictoria Queen Vicky]], who took up the duties of a Queen at 18 and did very well to rule into her eighties) for an unusually long time. At least a part of her would have been saying 'it's not time to become Queen yet, this is not really happening'- possibly she ran with it.

to:

When Elsa was told to conceal her powers powers, she internalised them and froze her own heart so as not to feel anything. This is why she goes from "Conceal it, don't feel it," to simply "Conceal, don't feel." This is why her ice can't melt or be thawed. [[spoiler:Her own tears after Anna freezes melted her heart and allowed her to thaw the neverending winter.]] Also ties in nicely with the original tale.

[[WMG:Elsa's behavior in the three skipped-over years was partly a result of being unable to face her parents' death- death -- and the King had already accidentally given her a lesson in denial tactics]]
tactics.]]
As well as the pain of anyone having such a terrible loss, Elsa is left devastatingly lonely by her parents' sudden death- death -- she's estranged from Anna and the powers that control her life completely are now secret from anyone but her. Her father was at least seeming seemingly the guide her in her struggles for control- control -- now she's alone. How does she deal with it? She ''conceals'' as much evidence of their passing to herself as she can, to try to avoid ''feeling'' it.
* She's technically the Queen, but avoids being crowned or taking on her duties- duties -- despite the fact that even in this century century, monarchs of 18 and younger have been very successful (Elsa would be just a little youngler younger than [[UsefulNotes/QueenVictoria Queen Vicky]], who took up the duties of a Queen at 18 and did very well to rule into her eighties) for an unusually long time. At least a part of her would have been saying 'it's not time to become Queen yet, this is not really happening'- happening' -- possibly she ran with it.



* As a result of this, she can't go to her parents' memorial and has never seen the standing stones erected in their memory- how can she? She can't leave the castle! And therefore, she doesn't have to look at them.
** Yes, she would have exposed her powers if she did... but how long did she feasibly think it would be before something happened? But she avoided dealing with it- because an unconscious part of her believed that if she was 'the good girl she always had to be', and concealed all the evidence, this horrible thing wouldn't be happening to her.

to:

* As a result of this, she can't go to her parents' memorial and has never seen the standing stones erected in their memory- memory -- how can she? She can't leave the castle! And therefore, she doesn't have to look at them.
** Yes, she would have exposed her powers if she did... but how long did she feasibly think it would be before something happened? But she avoided dealing with it- it -- because an unconscious part of her believed that if she was 'the good girl she always had to be', and concealed all the evidence, this horrible thing wouldn't be happening to her.



The Queen had an affair with Loki and then Elsa born, or [[VoluntaryShapeshifter Loki]] impersonated Elsa's father at some point just to mess with some of Thor's descendants for kicks.

to:

The Queen had an affair with Loki and then Elsa was born, or [[VoluntaryShapeshifter Loki]] impersonated Elsa's father at some point just to mess with some of Thor's descendants for kicks.



* She can create sentient constructs out of snow and ice - similar to the chorus line of miniature Snow Misers?

to:

* She can create sentient constructs out of snow and ice - -- similar to the chorus line of miniature Snow Misers?



Anna of course is completely like most of the modern princesses- she's kind but spunky, adventurous, fearless, and a total badass who saves the day. However, Elsa is unique and refreshing in that she isn't an outspoken SpiritedYoungLady, {{Tomboy}}, badass who "don't need a man's help!" or anything else the typical heroine is nowadays, which has become a cliché, and paradoxically, the "traditional" type of heroines who lack fighting skills, spunkiness, and/or adventurous sides are now unorthodox. Elsa is particularly similar to Aurora- a lonely ProperLady who is reserved, demure, obedient, and ultimately selfless and dutiful for her people. She can't tell anyone "no" because she knows doing what's right is more important than following one's dreams. Elsa herself even becomes a DistressedDamsel as the Classics have always been negatively accused of being (and interesting that many fans ship her with the Prince-Charming-like Hans [[spoiler:although unfortunately that never happened.]] It is very telling that most people preferred ladylike, responsible, quiet Elsa to tomboyish, independent, spunky Anna (although she rightfully has her own fanbase). TL:DR you could read [[http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/66011868700/elsa-a-vindication-of-traditional-femininity-in this fan's post]], which describes it more eloquently.
** Considering that A) Elsa is very powerful on her own right, and B) her being repressed is what caused this whole mess, it seems quite a stretch to assume those sexist notions are validated. Also, most people enjoy Elsa as a character due to her own strength and tribulations, not because she is helpless and "obedient" as you say.[[note]]Also, calling feminism a "leftist delusion" won't get you any fans[[/note]]
*** The only thing sexist here is you calling femininity sexist. The heck? Also, you're the only one saying anything about helpless. Which every single ''realistic'' heroine can, will, and does have moments of. As for obedient, I don't know what the quotes are for. Elsa is obedient and this is refreshing. Dutiful unselfishness is not seen much anymore, in a society where rebellious and self-centeredness is generally preferred. If I accidentally implies Elsa or anyone should be a doormat, my bad, but I don't think that implication was there. [[note]]I didn't write that post, or I would have said so. I don't think she cares about saying what people want to hear, especially since I spoke to her personally. Her opinions on politics or feminism wasn't my point, of course.[[/notes]]
*** That would imply that said traits are "feminine", instead of "one way gender roles play up". Also 1) yes, every protagonist can have and should have helpless moments, but you imply it is a traditional, ''welcome'' aspect of female protagonists, and 2) you seem to be missing the point of Elsa's predicament: ultimately, it was by embracing the "self-centered" (read: being comfortable with oneself; if you legitimately think Anna, Mulan, Rapunzel or the others are "self-centered", you're making quite the stretch) thing that she became happy with herself.[[note]]It is also very ironic that you condemn freedom and self-respect, whilst praising the author for its "rebellious attitude" and "edginess" (read: childish black and white political views)[[/note]]
*** Also this view point seems to take a harmfully black and white stance on what is feminine. this troper at least, can agree that Elsa is very much a ProperLady type, and is very much dutiful to others over self, but that for the most part doesn't necessarily stem completely from her being a good ''female'', unless youíre saying every good ''male'' monarch in fiction should be a brash and self-serving ego maniac as would be the default male prerogative by that line of reasoning. Elsa's defining traits in movie stem less from gender roles and more from her responsibilities as a monarch, and as a decent human being with a working moral compass, something that's not owned solely by either gender, but rather should be found in both. Itís also ironic that you say Elsa breaks the "I don't need no man" attitude found in most modern princess, and your right, Elsa isn't really out to prove anything, she's too busy trying not to destroy everything she loves for that, but in the end she ''DIDN'T'' need no man to help her. Nowhere in the film, or in the extra material did Elsa ever show interest in men, or in romance in general, and it wasn't in the way that Merida did it, in a "I don't want to be tied down" way, it was in the "I honestly don't have the time of day for this" way. In the end, both side of the argument can apply to Elsa, and that's ok. From what we can tell from film and story books, Elsa does like traditionally girly things, like high tea, and looking nice in dresses, and she does have a lot in common with the more classically feminine princess of old. But at the same time Elsa is still a strong minded individual who was put into an impossibly difficult situation and came out of it standing on her own two feet. As a princess she certainly knows when it is her place to keep calm and quite for the sake of peace and decorum, but as a Queen she also shows that that doesn't mean she's a door mat, and that being benevolent doesn't mean being used. In the end, Elsa is a refreshing change of pace in that she's not really just another princess with [[YouGoGirl something to prove]], and she's not just [[PrincessClassic some pretty face waiting for the right man]], Elsa is Elsa, a young woman who has problems which transcend the gender barrier, who enjoys traditionally feminine pursuits not because they're what are expected of her as a girl, but maybe just because she genuinely enjoys them, and that's ok, because that's doesn't make her any less of a strong, independent person, those just happen to be her interest. So many feminist get into a RealWomenDontWearDresses mentality, and maybe, just maybe, the real success behind characters like Elsa, and Rapunzel, and Tiana, and who knows how many other princess, hell maybe even, it could be argued, the whole Princess lineup, is because they can be feminist and feminine, they can be as strong or as weak as any real person would and that's ok. [[note]] sorry for how ridiculously long that was [[/note]]

to:

Anna of course is completely like most of the modern princesses- princesses -- she's kind but spunky, adventurous, fearless, and a total badass who saves the day. However, Elsa is unique and refreshing in that she isn't an outspoken SpiritedYoungLady, {{Tomboy}}, badass who "don't need a man's help!" or anything else the typical heroine is nowadays, which has become a cliché, and paradoxically, the "traditional" type of heroines who lack fighting skills, spunkiness, and/or adventurous sides are now unorthodox. Elsa is particularly similar to Aurora- Aurora -- a lonely ProperLady who is reserved, demure, obedient, and ultimately selfless and dutiful for her people. She can't tell anyone "no" because she knows doing what's right is more important than following one's dreams. Elsa herself even becomes a DistressedDamsel as the Classics have always been negatively accused of being (and interesting that many fans ship her with the Prince-Charming-like Hans [[spoiler:although unfortunately that never happened.]] happened]]. It is very telling that most people preferred ladylike, responsible, quiet Elsa to tomboyish, independent, spunky Anna (although she rightfully has her own fanbase). TL:DR you could read [[http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/66011868700/elsa-a-vindication-of-traditional-femininity-in this fan's post]], which describes it more eloquently.
** Considering that A) Elsa is very powerful on in her own right, and B) her being repressed is what caused this whole mess, it seems quite a stretch to assume those sexist notions are validated. Also, most people enjoy Elsa as a character due to her own strength and tribulations, not because she is helpless and "obedient" as you say.[[note]]Also, calling feminism a "leftist delusion" won't get you any fans[[/note]]
fans.[[/note]]
*** The only thing sexist here is you calling femininity sexist. The heck? Also, you're the only one saying anything about helpless. Which every single ''realistic'' heroine can, will, and does have moments of. As for obedient, I don't know what the quotes are for. Elsa is obedient and this is refreshing. Dutiful unselfishness is not seen much anymore, in a society where rebellious and self-centeredness is generally preferred. If I accidentally implies imply Elsa or anyone should be a doormat, my bad, but I don't think that implication was there. [[note]]I didn't write that post, or I would have said so. I don't think she cares about saying what people want to hear, especially since I spoke to her personally. Her opinions on politics or feminism wasn't my point, of course.[[/notes]]
*** That would imply that said traits are "feminine", instead of "one way gender roles play up". Also 1) yes, every protagonist can have and should have helpless moments, but you imply it is a traditional, ''welcome'' aspect of female protagonists, and 2) you seem to be missing the point of Elsa's predicament: ultimately, it was by embracing the "self-centered" (read: being comfortable with oneself; if you legitimately think Anna, Mulan, Rapunzel Rapunzel, or the others are "self-centered", you're making quite the stretch) thing that she became happy with herself.[[note]]It is also very ironic that you condemn freedom and self-respect, whilst praising the author for its "rebellious attitude" and "edginess" (read: childish black and white political views)[[/note]]
*** Also Also, this view point viewpoint seems to take a harmfully black and white stance on what is feminine. this That troper at least, can agree that Elsa is very much a ProperLady type, and is very much dutiful to others over self, but that for the most part doesn't necessarily stem completely from her being a good ''female'', unless youíre saying every good ''male'' monarch in fiction should be a brash and self-serving ego maniac egomaniac as would be the default male prerogative by that line of reasoning. Elsa's defining traits in the movie stem less from gender roles and more from her responsibilities as a monarch, and as a decent human being with a working moral compass, something that's not owned solely by either gender, but rather should be found in both. Itís also ironic that you say Elsa breaks the "I don't need no man" attitude found in most modern princess, and your right, Elsa isn't really out to prove anything, she's too busy trying not to destroy everything she loves for that, but in the end she ''DIDN'T'' need no man to help her. Nowhere in the film, or in the extra material did Elsa ever show interest in men, or in romance in general, and it wasn't in the way that Merida did it, in a "I don't want to be tied down" way, it was in the "I honestly don't have the time of day for this" way. In the end, both side of the argument can apply to Elsa, and that's ok. From what we can tell from film and story books, Elsa does like traditionally girly things, like high tea, and looking nice in dresses, and she does have a lot in common with the more classically feminine princess of old. But at the same time Elsa is still a strong minded individual who was put into an impossibly difficult situation and came out of it standing on her own two feet. As a princess princess, she certainly knows when it is her place to keep calm and quite quiet for the sake of peace and decorum, but as a Queen Queen, she also shows that that doesn't mean she's a door mat, doormat, and that being benevolent doesn't mean being used. In the end, Elsa is a refreshing change of pace in that she's not really just another princess with [[YouGoGirl something to prove]], and she's not just [[PrincessClassic some pretty face waiting for the right man]], Elsa is Elsa, a young woman who has problems which transcend the gender barrier, who enjoys traditionally feminine pursuits not because they're what are expected of her as a girl, but maybe just because she genuinely enjoys them, and that's ok, because that's doesn't make her any less of a strong, independent person, those just happen to be her interest. So many feminist get into a RealWomenDontWearDresses mentality, and maybe, just maybe, the real success behind characters like Elsa, and Rapunzel, and Tiana, and who knows how many other princess, hell maybe even, it could be argued, the whole Princess lineup, is because they can be feminist and feminine, they can be as strong or as weak as any real person would and that's ok. [[note]] sorry for how ridiculously long that was [[/note]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 905. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.Frozen