History WMG / DoctorWhoS33E13TheNameOfTheDoctor

1st Jun '16 5:30:06 AM darksecret
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to:

** Jossed by the 2015 Christmas special, "The Husbands of River Song."
20th Jul '15 8:51:39 AM ChaoticNovelist
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[[spoiler:The Name of the Doctor implies that the Clara who has been travelling with the Doctor since The Bells of Saint John was the original version, and that the rest are all just temporal duplicates created when she entered the Doctor's timeline to undo the Great Intelligence's meddling. However, in The Bells of Saint John, Clara uses the mnemonic "Run, you clever boy, and remember" when entering the wi-fi password, which was the phrase that tipped the Doctor off to her identity both here and in The Snowmen. She subconsciously knew this phrase in modern London because that version of her was yet another of the iterations created when she entered the Doctor's timeline.]]


to:

[[spoiler:The Name of the Doctor implies that the Clara who has been travelling with the Doctor since The Bells of Saint John was the original version, and that the rest are all just temporal duplicates created when she entered the Doctor's timeline to undo the Great Intelligence's meddling. However, in The Bells of Saint John, Clara uses the mnemonic "Run, you clever boy, and remember" when entering the wi-fi password, which was the phrase that tipped the Doctor off to her identity both here and in The Snowmen. She subconsciously knew this phrase in modern London because that version of her was yet another of the iterations created when she entered the Doctor's timeline. She is a Stand Alone Complex. TARDIS doesn't like her because her existence is truly impossible.]]

20th Jul '15 7:28:07 AM ChaoticNovelist
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* She has spread herself across the time stream, and is now throughly embedded in the Doctor's timestream. This is how the Tardis always knows where and when to take him.

to:

* She has spread herself across the time stream, and is now throughly embedded in the Doctor's timestream. This is how the Tardis always knows where and when to take him. She's SeenItAll. Further evidence is as follows:



* Sexy claimed that she stole him. Time Lord Clara got the Doctor to pick the correct one...

to:

* Sexy claimed that she stole him. Time Lord Clara got the Doctor to pick the correct one...one.



* We saw that as Clara entered The Doctor's timeline, she was split thousands of times. Each of those separate copies was shown to have been born and lived a life in that section of the timeline. One of those copies was a Time Lady on Gallifrey. The Doctor would have had no reason to trust some random stranger suggesting he steal a different TARDIS. It would have had to have been someone known to him, a friend. That version of Clara grew up on Gallifrey, met The Doctor, and became a good close friend. The tattoo of the ouroboros that The Corsair favored seems somehow appropriate in describing Clara's presence in The Doctor's life, now.

to:

* We saw that as Clara entered The Doctor's timeline, she was split thousands of times. Each of those separate copies was shown to have been born and lived a life in that section of the timeline. One of those copies was a Time Lady on Gallifrey. The Doctor would have had no reason to trust some random stranger suggesting he steal a different TARDIS. It would have had to have been someone known to him, a friend. That version of Clara grew up on Gallifrey, met The Doctor, and became a good close friend. The tattoo of the ouroboros that The Corsair favored seems somehow is appropriate in describing Clara's presence in The Doctor's life, now.
life.



* Torchwood establishes that the actor John Hurt exists in the Whoverse. [[spoiler: It's not that John Hurt is playing the doctor, it's that John Hurt and the Doctor are one in the same. In this incarnation of The Doctor one of the things he did was be actor John Hurt.]] Dude Who played Kane in Alien? [[spoiler:The Doctor. Why go by John Hurt instead of the usual John Smith? Because he's hurting over whatever the hell it is he did.]]

to:

* Torchwood establishes that the actor John Hurt exists in the Whoverse. [[spoiler: It's not that John Hurt is playing the doctor, it's that John Hurt and the Doctor are one in and the same. In this incarnation of The Doctor one of the things he did was be actor John Hurt.]] Dude Who played Kane in Alien? [[spoiler:The Doctor. Why go by John Hurt instead of the usual John Smith? Because he's hurting over whatever the hell it is he did.]]




to:

* Jossed.



Clare entered the Doctor's timeline to save him right, and Donna saved the Doctor under the Thames Barrier when he killed the Racnoss Queen, therefore a version of Clara was born Donna Noble. "Turn Left" was probably the Great Intelligence's fault too.

to:

Clare entered the Doctor's timeline to save him right, and Donna saved the Doctor under the Thames Barrier when he killed the Racnoss Queen, therefore a version of Clara was born Donna Noble. "Turn Left" was probably the Great Intelligence's fault too.



* I know, most obvious. and personally, I really enjoyed the reveal of the Clara mystery, and I'm a supporter of a lot of the ideas posted on this page, but all of the created during the Moffat era have involved lead up that requires a lot of mental gymnastics and interpretation of minor details just to make them fit.
** So, calling it now. We're all going to be guessing that since the Doctor has often owned up to the ending of the time war, and how it was terrible, therefore that couldn't be his secret, the big reveal will be his actual secret will end up being simply *how* he ended the time war.

[[WMG: Alternatively, [[spoiler:John Hurt's incarnation ''started'' the Time War.]]]]
My understanding is that there have been multiple Time Wars, and this was the Last Great Time War. Something had to have sparked that last great conflict. Which would be worse, being the one who committed grand scale genocide to end a potentially universe destroying war like the Doctor, or [[spoiler:being the one who necessitated all that grand scale genocide by starting that war in the first place]]? I could even see it being something like ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'' and the Red Court / White Council War, a case of AlwaysSaveTheGirl in which Dresden kicked off simply to try and save a single individual. That is very much something I could see the Doctor doing.
* The problem with this one is that the Fourth Doctor canonically started the Time War in [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoS12E4GenesisOfTheDaleks Genesis of the Daleks.]]

to:

* I know, most obvious. and personally, I really enjoyed the reveal of the Clara mystery, and I'm a supporter of a lot of the ideas posted on this page, but all of the created during the Moffat era have involved lead up that requires a lot of mental gymnastics and interpretation of minor details just to make them fit.
** So, calling it now.
We're all going to be guessing that since the Doctor has often owned up to the ending of the time war, and how it was terrible, therefore that couldn't be his secret, the big reveal will be his actual secret will end up being simply *how* he ended the time war.

[[WMG: Alternatively, [[spoiler:John Hurt's incarnation ''started'' the Time War.]]]]
My understanding is that there have been multiple Time Wars, and this This was the Last Great Time War. Something had to have sparked that last great conflict. Which would be worse, being the one who committed grand scale genocide to end a potentially universe destroying war like the Doctor, or [[spoiler:being the one who necessitated all that grand scale genocide by starting that war in the first place]]? I It could even see it being be something like ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'' and the Red Court / White Council War, a case of AlwaysSaveTheGirl in which Dresden kicked off simply to try and save a single individual. That is very much something I could see the Doctor doing.
* The problem with this one is that the Fourth Doctor canonically started the Time War in [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoS12E4GenesisOfTheDaleks Genesis of the Daleks.]]
individual.



[[WMG: [[spoiler:John Hurt!Doctor]] isn't the Valeyard, didn't start the Time War, or any other obvious answer. I'm sure the Time War plays into it, though. Just not in a way we expect. Hurt's Doctor was driven mad by the events in the Time War. He faced down evil like Davros too many times, and finally said "screw it, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. The only way to defeat Daleks is to make something more powerful than the Daleks themselves, something even they would fear." With that mindset, the Doctor spend eons (which is why he's so old) creating such foul, unthinkable beings as the Star of Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres. And the best part? He made them out of ''non-Time Lord Gallifreyans''. He no longer considered them more important than the Daleks. They were just a subculture, fit only for menial tasks. Why not experiment on them and turn them into the abominations listed above? It was all for peace and sanity. Among his victims? Susan Foreman. Perhaps she's even the Nightmare Child.]]

to:

[[WMG: [[spoiler:John Hurt!Doctor]] isn't the Valeyard, didn't start the Time War, or any other obvious answer. I'm sure the Time War plays into it, though. Just not in a way we expect. Hurt's Doctor was driven mad by the events in the Time War. He faced down evil like Davros too many times, and finally said "screw it, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. The only way to defeat Daleks is to make something more powerful than the Daleks themselves, something even they would fear." With that mindset, the Doctor spend eons (which is why he's so old) creating such foul, unthinkable beings as the Star of Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres. And the best part? He made them out of ''non-Time Lord Gallifreyans''. He no longer considered them more important than the Daleks. They were just a subculture, fit only for menial tasks. Why not experiment on them and turn them into the abominations listed above? It was all for peace and sanity. Among his victims? Susan Foreman. Perhaps she's even the Nightmare Child.]]



Likely thanks to [[spoiler:Clara]] stopping his plan of screwing around with the Doctor. The Great Intelligence has proven himself to be an effective villian, and is one of the best culprits for the cracks in time-I doubt they're going to [[spoiler:keep him dead.]] That being said, [[spoiler:attacking the Doctor's time stream]] will result in the Great Intelligence being fatally injured, and with his days numbered will do whatever it takes to wreck the Doctor. Likely by bringing back [[spoiler:his forgotten incarnation.]]

to:

Likely thanks to [[spoiler:Clara]] stopping his plan of screwing around with the Doctor. The Great Intelligence has proven himself to be an effective villian, and is one of the best culprits for the cracks in time-I doubt they're going to [[spoiler:keep him dead.]] That being said, [[spoiler:attacking time. [[spoiler:Attacking the Doctor's time stream]] will result in the Great Intelligence being fatally injured, and with his days numbered will do whatever it takes to wreck the Doctor. Likely by bringing back [[spoiler:his forgotten incarnation.]]



* Or, alternatively, they meet him ''after'' entering the Doctor's time stream, but its a time copy that Clara's time copies were unable to get to or otherwise stop.
** We don't know the full extent of the Doctor's timestream in the Giant Tardis, unless this troper missed something, so any and all events the GI could have interfered with would ONLY have already 'happened' in the Doctor's past, not its future versions. This troper being a fan of the theory that the [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor is a pre-Hartnell Doctor like a WMG further up this page]], would then have to assume that the GI also interfered with [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor]]. This would also mean that the GI never interfered with the [[spoiler: Valeyard as he's a future incarnation "in between his 12th and final regeneration"]]. Though there is still the trouble with that theory in that [[spoiler: Clara never met him, unless his experiences are locked out of his Timestream and only his identity remains]]. Although, since [[spoiler: Clara never met John Hurt, and followed the GI everywhere he went, that means the GI never interfered with John Hurt]]. My head hurts.

to:

* Or, alternatively, they meet him ''after'' entering the Doctor's time stream, but its a time copy that Clara's time copies were unable to get to or otherwise stop.
** We don't know the full extent of the Doctor's timestream in the Giant Tardis, unless this troper missed something, so any and all events the GI could have interfered with would ONLY have already 'happened' in the Doctor's past, not its future versions. This troper being a fan of the theory that the [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor is a pre-Hartnell Doctor like a WMG further up this page]], would then have to assume that the GI also interfered with [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor]]. This would also mean that the GI never interfered with the [[spoiler: Valeyard as he's a future incarnation "in between his 12th and final regeneration"]]. Though there is still the trouble with that theory in that [[spoiler: Clara never met him, unless his experiences are locked out of his Timestream and only his identity remains]]. Although, since [[spoiler: Clara never met John Hurt, and followed the GI everywhere he went, that means the GI never interfered with John Hurt]]. My head hurts.



* We see Susan walking into the TARDIS right before Gallifreyan-Clara shows up, so that may put a dent in this idea.
** We see ''someone'' walking into the Tardis. Maybe she was just a caretaker for the Tardis repair bay, whom the Doctor conned into unlocking one for him.
*** That doesn't seem likely. A Time Lady would be dressed more like a Time lady (like Clara), and not like someone looking to blend into 1900's Earth (Susan walking into the TARDIS). That scene (as far as walking into the TARDIS goes) seems to have been modeled from the comic ''Time and Time Again'', where the Doctor leads Susan into the TARDIS when they leave Gallifrey. Also, it was established the Doctor's TARDIS was the ''second'' TARDIS he tried, because the first one was locked. So it was probably just a Clara undoing Great Intelligence vandalism. Also, and most importantly, Clara doesn't look anything like Susan.
*** We've never really seen how Gallifreyan ''civilians'' dress, just government officials and soldiers. And Clara not looking like Susan would be covered by her regenerating early on, between the Doctor's original theft of the Tardis and "An Unearthly Child".
**** Still highly doubtful. It is known that Susan left alongside the Doctor and that they left together. There is nothing to suggest that a third person went with them. We also have seen Time Lord civilians, and none of them dress like Jackie Kennedy.

to:

* We *We see Susan walking into the TARDIS right before Gallifreyan-Clara shows up, so that may put a dent in third person with One at this idea.
** We see ''someone'' walking into the Tardis. Maybe she was just
time but we don't get a caretaker for the Tardis repair bay, whom the Doctor conned into unlocking one for him.
*** That doesn't seem likely. A Time Lady would
good look at them. This could be dressed more like a Time lady (like Clara), and not like Clara, Susan-Clara or someone looking to blend into 1900's Earth (Susan walking into the TARDIS). That scene (as far as walking into the TARDIS goes) seems to have been modeled from the comic ''Time and Time Again'', where the Doctor leads Susan into the TARDIS when they leave Gallifrey. Also, it was established the Doctor's TARDIS was the ''second'' TARDIS he tried, because the first one was locked. So it was probably just a Clara undoing Great Intelligence vandalism. Also, and most importantly, Clara doesn't look anything like Susan.else, who is ''also'' Clara. She's everywhere after all.
*** We've never really seen how Gallifreyan ''civilians'' dress, just government officials and soldiers. And Clara not looking like Susan would be covered by her regenerating early on, between the Doctor's original theft of the Tardis and "An Unearthly Child".
**** Still highly doubtful. It is known that Susan left alongside the Doctor and that they left together. There is nothing to suggest that a third person went with them. We also have seen Time Lord civilians, and none of them dress like Jackie Kennedy.




to:

*Sort of jossed and sort of confirmed. [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor went forwards in time to see the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors, after he himself had burned Gallifrey. Then he went back in time before that happened and took a third option.]]



1) The way River suggests that her 'grave' is a a secret entrance to the tomb implied that she knew exactly what it was.Perhaps because she put it there? A way to come back to visit if she so chose to. The battle is way off in the Doctor's future, considering he barely mentioned River to Clara beyond what was implied to be vague references to 'Professor Song' the chance he would even say anything to that extent to a far of future companion is negligible.

2) The Doctor had an absolute look of shock mixed with a bit of fear when River told him his name in the Library, he also said there was only one reason he could and would. River said it took a long time for her to get him to tell her his name, which rules out whatever he said to her in "Let's Kill Hitler". We still don't know what time is, but his actual death seems like a pretty good candidate.

3) Massive WMGing here, but it seems like something would have to be keeping the Doctor's timestream tangible, that something here most likely being the TARDIS, which is stated to be dying but is not dead yet. River would know how to set something up like that up and the TARDIS would help her do it.

to:

1) The way River suggests that her 'grave' is a a secret entrance to the tomb implied that she knew exactly what it was. Perhaps because she put it there? A way to come back to visit if she so chose to. The battle is way off in the Doctor's future, considering he barely mentioned River to Clara beyond what was implied to be vague references to 'Professor Song' the chance he would even say anything to that extent to a far of future companion is negligible.

2) The Doctor had an absolute look of shock mixed with a bit of fear when River told him his name in the Library, he also said there was only one reason he could and would. River said it took a long time for her to get him to tell her his name, which rules out whatever he said to her in "Let's Kill Hitler". We still don't know what the time is, but his actual death seems like a pretty good candidate.

3) Massive WMGing here, but it seems like something Something would have to be keeping the Doctor's timestream tangible, tangible and that something here most likely being the TARDIS, which is stated to be dying but is not dead yet. River would know how to set something up like that up and the TARDIS would help her do it.



5) The password was his name, something on the the Doctor and River have ever been confirmed to know, (though Clara might possibly know now through her link with River, I'm ignoring the book in Journey because some much weird stuff was going on with the TARDIS who knows what she may have actually read or if the book was even really real or a leaked echo of some kind) What better lock than something no one else would know?

[[WMG: Clara and TGI become the Guardians.]]

to:

5) The password was his name, something on the the Doctor and River have ever been confirmed to know, (though Clara might possibly know now through her link with River, I'm ignoring River and possibly from the book in Journey because some much weird stuff was going on with the TARDIS who knows what she may have actually read or if the book was even really real or a leaked echo of some kind) Tardis' library) What better lock than something no one else would know?

[[WMG: Clara and TGI The Great Intelligence become the Guardians.]]



[[WMG: JHD is a between the 8th and 9th Doctors like the Watcher]]
The Time Lords could have created an in-between Doctor who would be more ruthless.

to:

[[WMG: JHD John Hurt Doctor is a between the 8th and 9th Doctors like the Watcher]]
The Time Lords could have created an in-between Doctor who would be more ruthless.
ruthless.
*[[spoiler: Confirmed except for who did it. It was the Sisters of Karn and Eight choose a warrior as his next incarnation.]]



Ok, so the goal of the Silence was to make sure that noone ever asks the Doctor his name on Trenzaolre. There are two options:
a) they knew that this is where the Doctor's timeline is, and that the key to that timeline is Doctor's name, and that the Doctor has not only saved lots of planets and galaxies, but has also saved the universe - in which case they were actually good guys and wanted to prevent anyone from meddling with his timeline.

b) they were described as a religious order. Their only belief was that 'Silence must fall when the Question is asked'. They have no idea why, they just know that they have to make sure that the Doctor never reaches Trenzalore alive to be able to answer it. Doesn't matter what the cost is - even if they have to blow up the universe, they have to fulfill their one and only commandment.

So...anyone that has seen the last 3 seasons will have no problem answering which of these options is more likely. If the Silence were good guys that wanted to preserve the timeline in which the Doctor saves worlds and universes they wouldn't have blown up the TARDIS. The only viable option is that they were obsessed about Doctor never answering the Question, no matter what the cost (even if it means blowing up the whole of creation).

to:

Ok, so the The goal of the Silence was to make sure that noone ever asks the Doctor his name on Trenzaolre. There are two options:
a) they They knew that this is where the Doctor's timeline is, and that the key to that timeline is Doctor's name, and that the Doctor has not only saved lots of planets and galaxies, but has also saved the universe - in which case they were actually good guys and wanted to prevent anyone from meddling with his timeline.

b) they They were described as a religious order. Their only belief was that 'Silence must fall when the Question is asked'. They have no idea why, they just know that they have to make sure that the Doctor never reaches Trenzalore alive to be able to answer it. Doesn't matter what the cost is - even if they have to blow up the universe, they have to fulfill their one and only commandment.

So...anyone that has seen To determine which option is correct, we have to consider the last 3 seasons will have no problem answering which of these options is more likely.three series. If the Silence were good guys that wanted to preserve the timeline in which the Doctor saves worlds and universes they wouldn't have blown up the TARDIS. The only viable option is that they were obsessed about Doctor never answering the Question, no matter what the cost (even if it means blowing up the whole of creation).
20th Jul '15 7:04:06 AM ChaoticNovelist
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[[WMG: I'm gonna get the ball rolling and say that Clara's secret is that she is either Romana or the Rani.]]
* Someone has to say it, after all.
* Think she's either a regeneration of Susan, or another version of River Song.
* Or [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E6TheDoctorsDaughter Jenny.]]

to:

[[WMG: I'm gonna get the ball rolling and say that [[WMG: Clara's secret is that she is either Romana or the Rani.truly someone else.]]
* Someone has to say it, after all.
* Think she's
Clara is either a Romana, the Rani, the regeneration of Susan, or another version of River Song.
* Or
Song or [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E6TheDoctorsDaughter Jenny.]]



[[WMG: The Doctor's name is...]]

to:

[[WMG: The Doctor's name is...]]Doctor Who?]]



** Unlikely: What few clues we've gotten over the years, hint at it being some combination of 'Theta', 'Sigma', and other unknown words. It's debatable, though, how much stock that should be put in this, considering that Clara's reaction to learning it, seemed akin to disgust or horror. Not exactly something either normal human names, or a string of latin letters, would inspire...
** Actually, "Theta-Sigma" is a nickname they gave him back on Gallifrey based off his exam results (apparently Time Lords grade things in Greek). And YMMV on Clara's reaction resembling "disgust" - at least one viewer thought it was more of a "huh... fair enough" look.
** Clara just seemed to be in - what is becoming to be fairly common - a state of constant wonder/curiosity - she looked very similar when wandering around the bazaar in the second episode of this part of the series. Any part of the horror/disgust was likely due to the charred people following her around, and assuming the Doctor actually kept them on the TARDIS.
* Based on last series and how they got out of actually killing him - if he actually does reveal his name, it will likely be only to River - if for no other reason, than to start tying up the whole Forest of the Dead time loop. After all, Moffat ''loves'' his stable time loops.
* Alternatively, instead of actually revealing his name, on screen at least, he will answer with "Just the Doctor, actually."
** [[spoiler:For the intents of this episode, "The Doctor" turns out to be right]].

to:

** Unlikely: What few clues we've gotten over the years, hint at it being some combination of 'Theta', 'Sigma', and other unknown words. It's debatable, though, how much stock that should be put in this, considering that Clara's reaction to learning it, seemed akin to disgust or horror. Not exactly something either normal human names, or a string of latin letters, would inspire...
** Actually,
* "Theta-Sigma" is a nickname they gave him back on Gallifrey based off his exam results (apparently Time Lords grade things in Greek). And YMMV on Clara's reaction resembling "disgust" - at least one viewer thought it was more of a "huh... fair enough" look.
** Clara just seemed to be in - what
His real name is becoming to be fairly common - a state of constant wonder/curiosity - she looked very similar when wandering around the bazaar this in the second episode of this part of the series. Any part of the horror/disgust was likely due to the charred people following her around, and assuming the Doctor actually kept them on the TARDIS.
* Based on last series and how they got out of actually killing him - if he actually does reveal his name, it will likely be only to River - if for no other reason, than to start tying up the whole Forest of the Dead time loop. After all, Moffat ''loves'' his stable time loops.
original Gallifreian.
* Alternatively, instead Instead of actually revealing his name, on screen at least, he will answer with "Just the Doctor, actually."
**
" [[spoiler:For the intents of this episode, "The Doctor" turns out to be right]].



* Luke Intomyeyes, as revealed in "The Wedding of River Song."



[[WMG: The episode is not going to be about what The Doctor's name is...]]
* It's going to be about why The Doctor's name is some languages means warrior and what significance that holds. Moffat is a {{Troll}}, do you really think he'd reveal The Doctor's true name?
** It's the word "doctor" that means warrior in some languages.
* I wouldn't say that it will be specifically about his name - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Doctor won't reveal his name in it either. Of course, Moffat being the troll he is, it doesn't mean that he's going to reveal it to we, the audience. If memory serves, at some point - the Doctor still has to tell River what his real name is, so she can eventually tell it to Ten, to gain his trust. This seems to be as good as time as any to do that.
** He already gave her his name in Recap/DoctorWhoS32E13TheWeddingOfRiverSong. But either way it's likely this is going to be another UnReveal.
*** No, he did not. He had only shown her that he's in the Teselecta.
**** [[spoiler: ...Confirmed. It was revealed that one of the regenerations did something so bad that he didn't deserve the name "Doctor"]]

[[WMG: Based on the trailer, is Clara surrounded by regenerative energy?]]

to:

[[WMG: The episode is not going to be about what The Doctor's name is...]]
*
is]]
It's going to be about why The Doctor's name is some languages means warrior and what significance that holds. Moffat is a {{Troll}}, do you really think he'd reveal The Doctor's true name?
** It's the word "doctor" that means warrior in some languages.
name?.
* I wouldn't say that it will be specifically about his name - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Doctor won't reveal his name in it either. Of course, Moffat being the troll he is, it doesn't mean that he's going to reveal it to we, the audience. If memory serves, at some point - the Doctor still has to tell River what his real name is, so she can eventually tell it to Ten, to gain his trust. This seems to be as good as time as any to do that.
** He already gave her his name in Recap/DoctorWhoS32E13TheWeddingOfRiverSong. But either way it's likely this is going to be another UnReveal.
*** No, he did not. He had only shown her that he's in the Teselecta.
****
[[spoiler: ...Confirmed. It was revealed that one of the regenerations did something so bad that he didn't deserve the name "Doctor"]]

[[WMG: Based on the trailer, is Clara is surrounded by regenerative energy?]]energy]]



* [[spoiler: Jossed. However, River WAS there to try and keep an eye on Doctor and Clara as a data ghost from the Library.]]

[[WMG: The Fall of the Eleventh means...]]

to:

* [[spoiler: Jossed. However, Jossed but River WAS there to try and keep an eye on Doctor and Clara as a data ghost from the Library.]]

[[WMG: The Fall of the Eleventh means...]]will be anti climatic]]



* He is shown in the next time trailer falling down what looks to be fainting with the blurred effect.
* Alternatively, the TARDIS falls down to Trenzalore after the Doctor turns off the antigrav, with the Doctor and Clara in it. So technically, Eleven "falls"...inside the TARDIS.



Assuming he's not just Head of the Whispermen or something, the Doctor said quite clearly he was crossing his own timeline in a big way. Alternatively...

to:

Assuming he's not just Head of the Whispermen or something, the Doctor said quite clearly he was crossing his own timeline in a big way. Alternatively...\n



* Dorium: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."
** According to the above quote, I think they're supposed to happen during the same trip.

to:

* Dorium: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."
** According to the above quote, I think they're supposed to happen during the same trip.




Moffat has said that it's getting harder to do interesting stories with River, because we've already seen her birth, death and wedding. There's not much more for us to see, except the moment The Doctor tells her his name (Hence the title). And in doing so, he'll know that he's had every possible adventure with her, and that he will never see her again.(Also, the [[ShipTease budding romance]] between The Doctor and Clara... wouldn't it be convenient [[DieForOurShip if he wasn't married any more?]])

to:

Moffat has said that it's getting harder to do interesting stories with River, because we've already seen her birth, death and wedding. There's not much more for us to see, except the moment The Doctor tells her his name (Hence the title). And in In doing so, he'll know that he's had every possible adventure with her, and that he will never see her again.(Also, the [[ShipTease budding romance]] between The Doctor and Clara... wouldn't it be convenient [[DieForOurShip if he wasn't married any more?]])



** Except photos released by BBC America imply that Clara encounters [[spoiler: The Sixth Doctor]] and [[spoiler:either the Third, Fourth or Seventh Doctor, as all three of them drove Bessie during the series]] as Clara.
** Though, as River explains, there are ''thousands'' of other Clara's after [[spoiler: she jumped into the Doctor's timeline]]. Not only do we have multiple Clara's bumping into the above, we even have [[spoiler: Clara as a Time Lord on Gallifrey, telling the First which TARDIS to take]]. During Clara's narration as she drifts, she mentions many near encounters and that she rarely got the Doctor's attention. This troper would like to think that CAL!Clara came to be because she would be the one who would unite River and the Doctor for the first time (from the Doctor's perspective), as well as enabling River to manage a mental commune with Clara without the risk of the Whisper Men finding and kidnapping her (as she will be safely stored away in the Library).
** This theory's already jossed on account of A: it not being pointed out or said (now that the truth of Clara is out, there's no reason to hide that) and B: CAL's real name didn't contain "Clara," "Oswin," or "Oswald," which occur in all the known Clara-incarnation names.
*** I kind of doubt that [[spoiler: Time Lady!Clara]] had any of those in her name, also remember she got 'Oswin' from combining Oswald and win in The Bells of Saint John. Perhaps sometimes it was names with similar meanings. For Example Lux means 'light' and one of the meanings of Clara is 'Bright'
*** She had over 12'000 shards which weren't all mentioned, how would it not being mentioned disaprove the theory? Actually the continued connection between Rivers dataghost and Clara makes a lot more sense if it is the case.

to:

** Except photos released by BBC America imply that Clara encounters [[spoiler: The Sixth Doctor]] and [[spoiler:either the Third, Fourth or Seventh Doctor, as all three of them drove Bessie during the series]] as Clara.
** Though, as
As River explains, there are ''thousands'' of other Clara's after [[spoiler: she jumped into the Doctor's timeline]]. Not only do we have multiple Clara's bumping into the above, we even have [[spoiler: Clara as a Time Lord on Gallifrey, telling the First which TARDIS to take]]. During Clara's narration as she drifts, she mentions many near encounters and that she rarely got the Doctor's attention. This troper would like to think that CAL!Clara came to be because she would be the one who would unite River and the Doctor for the first time (from the Doctor's perspective), as well as enabling River to manage a mental commune with Clara without the risk of the Whisper Men finding and kidnapping her (as she will be safely stored away in the Library).
** This theory's already jossed on account of A: it not being pointed out or said (now that the truth of Clara is out, there's no reason to hide that) and B: CAL's real name didn't contain "Clara," "Oswin," or "Oswald," which occur in all the known Clara-incarnation names.
*** I kind of doubt that [[spoiler: Time Lady!Clara]] had any of those in her name, also remember she got 'Oswin' from combining Oswald and win in The Bells of Saint John. Perhaps sometimes it was names with similar meanings. For Example Lux means 'light' and one of the meanings of Clara is 'Bright'
*** She had over 12'000 shards which weren't all mentioned, how would it not being mentioned disaprove the theory? Actually the continued connection between Rivers dataghost and Clara makes a lot more sense if it is the case.
Library).



* Normally, Valeyard guesses annoy me, because he's never been mentioned once in the new series... until this episode, when the Great Intelligence listed him with other names the Doctor would have... so if this isn't true, Moffat has deliberately tried to mislead us, because there is no way he couldn't realise how people would read into that.
** If he's not a previous Doctor (Which This Troper really hopes he's not) he ''has'' to be the Valeyard. After all, the ''Valeyard'' was the Doctor, albeit a future one. And this Season introduced the Great Intelligence as played by a [[TheOtherDarrin different actor]] why couldn't the Valeyard?
*** He can't be one of the eleven we know, as Clara explicitly set him apart from them (and called Smith the Eleventh Doctor). On top of that, the Doctor's dialogue suggests he ''already knows'' who this Doctor is, which means he may not be the Valeyard since that's a pre-Twelfth incarnation.
*** [[FutureMeScaresMe The Doctor already knows who the Valeyard is]]. On the other hand, the Valeyard is not the kind of person to do things "in the name of peace and sanity".
**** The problem with that is that the only things the Doctor knows about the Valeyard is what he saw of him in "Trial of a Time Lord." Beyond that, all he knows is the darker side of himself was manifested from his ''future'' self - and he makes it clear he knows what this Doctor-no-longer did.
*** You never know. He might have had CharacterDevelopment over time. Or he could simply use the claim as justification for his actions; plenty of other Doctor's foes have claimed to act for greater good while gratifying their selfish impulses.
**** But the Doctor agrees with the Hurt Doctor that what was done was without choice, for Peace and Sanity. Just not that they were in the name of the Doctor. He normally doesn't agree with the justifications his enemies try to use.

to:

* Normally, Valeyard guesses annoy me, because he's never been mentioned once [[spoiler: Jossed. He's the incarnation between the Eight and the Ninth, who fought in the new series... until this episode, when the Great Intelligence listed him with other names the Doctor would have... so if this isn't true, Moffat has deliberately tried to mislead us, because there is no way he couldn't realise how people would read into that.
** If he's not a previous Doctor (Which This Troper really hopes he's not) he ''has'' to be the Valeyard. After all, the ''Valeyard'' was the Doctor, albeit a future one. And this Season introduced the Great Intelligence as played by a [[TheOtherDarrin different actor]] why couldn't the Valeyard?
*** He can't be one of the eleven we know, as Clara explicitly set him apart from them (and called Smith the Eleventh Doctor). On top of that, the Doctor's dialogue suggests he ''already knows'' who this Doctor is, which means he may not be the Valeyard since that's a pre-Twelfth incarnation.
*** [[FutureMeScaresMe The Doctor already knows who the Valeyard is]]. On the other hand, the Valeyard is not the kind of person to do things "in the name of peace and sanity".
**** The problem with that is that the only things the Doctor knows about the Valeyard is what he saw of him in "Trial of a
Time Lord." Beyond that, all he knows is the darker side of himself was manifested from his ''future'' self - War and he makes it clear he knows what this Doctor-no-longer did.
*** You never know. He might have had CharacterDevelopment over time. Or he could simply use the claim as justification for his actions; plenty of other Doctor's foes have claimed to act for greater good while gratifying their selfish impulses.
**** But the Doctor agrees with the Hurt Doctor that what was done was without choice, for Peace and Sanity. Just not that they were in the name of the Doctor. He normally doesn't agree with the justifications his enemies try to use.
personally ended it.]]



* [[spoiler: Perhaps John Hurt's Doctor is from a time [[IHatePastMe BEFORE he took on the persona of the Doctor]]. Before becoming the 1st Doctor, he acted closer to the Time Lord Victorious, [[TheAtoner which led to a event that broke him so greatly he ran.]]]]
** [[spoiler: The way 11 spoke to him and the way he replied sort of implied that it was an incarnation that had been the Doctor prior.]]
*** [[spoiler: He is the incarnation between Eight and Nine, as we have never seen Eight regenerate and this is the ''only'' possible place he can be from because the Doctor clearly remembers him as being in the past. However, given the Doctor's free admission of committing genocide and doing other horrible things to end the time war, the only explanation is that this one did something much, '''much''' worse to the point that The Doctor wants to expunge him from all memory for all time forever.]]
**** [[spoiler: We never see Two regenerating ''into Three'' eitherů]]
*** [[spoiler: He could literally be the Eight and a halfth Doctor, much like the Second and a halfth Doctor in the fanfilm Devious.]]
*** [[spoiler: Like the Watcher from Logopolis]].
*** [[spoiler: This Doctor being between 8 and 9 is seemingly confirmed. http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/26279/doctor-who-john-hurts-50th-anniversary-role-explained]]

to:

* [[spoiler: Perhaps John Hurt's Doctor is from a time [[IHatePastMe BEFORE he took on the persona of the Doctor]]. Before becoming the 1st Doctor, he acted closer to the Time Lord Victorious, [[TheAtoner which led to a event that broke him so greatly he ran.]]]]
** [[spoiler: The way 11 spoke to him and the way he replied sort of implied that it was an incarnation that had been the Doctor prior.]]
*** [[spoiler: He is the incarnation between Eight and Nine, as we have never seen Eight regenerate and this is the ''only'' possible place he can be from because the Doctor clearly remembers him as being in the past. However, given the Doctor's free admission of committing genocide and doing other horrible things to end the time war, the only explanation is that this one did something much, '''much''' worse to the point that The Doctor wants to expunge him from all memory for all time forever.]]
**** [[spoiler: We never see Two regenerating ''into Three'' eitherů]]
*** [[spoiler: He could literally be the Eight and a halfth Doctor, much like the Second and a halfth Doctor in the fanfilm Devious.]]
*** [[spoiler: Like the Watcher from Logopolis]].
***
[[spoiler: This Doctor being between 8 and 9 is seemingly confirmed. http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/26279/doctor-who-john-hurts-50th-anniversary-role-explained]]



Not as likely as the above ones, but... [[spoiler: ...there is always the possibility that Eight lived for a very long time in his incarnation, to the point where he had physically aged to that of an older man. Eight also had developed a lot in the Big Finish audio plays, with writers loving to play the BreakTheCutie trope on him several times to break his bubbly personality. So, isn't it possible that an older Eight did something that no normal Doctor would do? To the point where the Doctor would only acknowledge his Eighth incarnation up to a certain point in time?]]
* [[spoiler: Eight is recognized as being a Doctor by his future incarnations, though. Whatever this one did, he is completely disregarded by all future incarnations. I think that would include his entire lifespan, not just the point after his incident.]]
* Note that [[spoiler:Eight never appears in the episode]]. Whether that is relevant or even means anything at all, who knows.
** No, he appeared in the opening sequence just prior to the Second Doctor's appearance. He's there, but has the least appearances of any old Doctor (quite fitting, really).
* This theory at least works on sound logic. The novels and Big Finish established that the Eighth was (ironically) the longest-lived incarnation of the Doctor, living almost 1000 years just as him without even counting any of the Time War. Big Finish has even recently updated his appearance to fit his and McGann's aging, so this theory does run on sound logic.

to:

Not as likely as the above ones, but... [[spoiler: ...there is always the possibility that Eight lived for a very long time in his incarnation, to the point where he had physically aged to that of an older man. Eight also had developed a lot in the Big Finish audio plays, with writers loving to play the BreakTheCutie trope on him several times to break his bubbly personality. So, isn't it possible that an older Eight did something that no normal Doctor would do? To the point where the Doctor would only acknowledge his Eighth incarnation up to a certain point in time?]]
* [[spoiler: Eight is recognized as being a Jossed. John Hurt's Doctor by his future incarnations, though. Whatever this one did, he is completely disregarded by all future incarnations. I think that would include his entire lifespan, not just the point after his incident.Eight's successor.]]
* Note that [[spoiler:Eight never appears in the episode]]. Whether that is relevant or even means anything at all, who knows.
** No, he appeared in the opening sequence just prior to the Second Doctor's appearance. He's there, but has the least appearances of any old Doctor (quite fitting, really).
* This theory at least works on sound logic. The novels and Big Finish established that the Eighth was (ironically) the longest-lived incarnation of the Doctor, living almost 1000 years just as him without even counting any of the Time War. Big Finish has even recently updated his appearance to fit his and McGann's aging, so this theory does run on sound logic.



During the Time War, the Eight Doctor [[spoiler:found out that he will one day destroy the Time Lords. He couldn't do anything about it, but then he died and regenerated into much darker John Hurt's Doctor. This Doctor decided to save the Time Lords any way he could, and came up with a plan, the same plan seen in ''The End of Time''. However, he then realized he didn't want to be responsible for that, and decided to stop it only way he could: by killing all the Time Lords. He then went to Trenzilore to await his death and regeneration into Nine. So the other Doctor's hate him, not because he killed the Time Lords, but because he made it necessary to kill them.]]

to:

During the Time War, the Eight Doctor [[spoiler:found out that he will one day destroy the Time Lords. He couldn't do anything about it, but then he died and regenerated into much darker John Hurt's Doctor. This Doctor decided to save the Time Lords any way he could, and came up with a plan, the same plan The Ultimate Sanction seen in ''The End of Time''. However, he then realized he didn't want to be responsible for that, and decided to stop it only way he could: by killing all the Time Lords. He then went to Trenzilore Trenzalore to await his death and regeneration into Nine. So the other Doctor's hate him, not because he killed the Time Lords, but because he made it necessary to kill them.]]



* [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor can't be the Valeyard, [[EvilCounterpart the Valeyard is all the hate and malice the Doctor didn't express.]] [[KnightTemplar John Hurt's Doctor did commit a terrible act, but still acted with some form a conscience.]]]]
** You only have his own word for it. Just because he claims that his actions are justifiable doesn't make it true. The Cybermen, for example, always insist that they are working in the name of peace and equality. Also, [[spoiler:while Valeyard is all the hate and malice that the Doctor has pent up, he is still the same person and is likely to have a conscience, just monstrously warped and capable of justifying almost any action in the name of greater good.]]
** [[spoiler: The Valeyard does not have a conscience, in every appearance he had in the classic series he was defined by his selfish desire for self-preservation and egotism, what John Hurt's Doctor did, the Doctor accepts, but not as the Doctor]].
*** The new series has added extra depth to characters like the Master. Giving [[spoiler:Valeyard similar treatment would fit the trend. As I already mentioned, he is still the Doctor and has his characteristics, albeit horribly warped. Furthermore, even the Valeyard could, for example, save the universe if his own life was at stake, even if he didn't have a better reason for it.]]
**** That's getting severely into fanwank territory, and besides, the Doctor ''agreed'' with the "peace and sanity" justification. He doesn't often agree with "for the greater good" justifications of his villains, if at all.

to:

* [[spoiler: John Hurt's Doctor can't be the Valeyard, [[EvilCounterpart the Valeyard is all the hate and malice the Doctor didn't express.]] [[KnightTemplar John Hurt's Doctor did commit a terrible act, but still acted with some form a conscience.]]]]
** You only have his own word for it. Just because he claims that his actions are justifiable doesn't make it true. The Cybermen, for example, always insist that they are working in the name of peace and equality. Also, [[spoiler:while Valeyard is all the hate and malice that the Doctor has pent up, he is still the same person and is likely to have a conscience, just monstrously warped and capable of justifying almost any action in the name of greater good.
Jossed.]]
** [[spoiler: The Valeyard does not have a conscience, in every appearance he had in the classic series he was defined by his selfish desire for self-preservation and egotism, what John Hurt's Doctor did, the Doctor accepts, but not as the Doctor]].
*** The new series has added extra depth to characters like the Master. Giving [[spoiler:Valeyard similar treatment would fit the trend. As I already mentioned, he is still the Doctor and has his characteristics, albeit horribly warped. Furthermore, even the Valeyard could, for example, save the universe if his own life was at stake, even if he didn't have a better reason for it.]]
**** That's getting severely into fanwank territory, and besides, the Doctor ''agreed'' with the "peace and sanity" justification. He doesn't often agree with "for the greater good" justifications of his villains, if at all.



[[CloudCuckooLander The Doctor]] [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotHeinous just didn't]] [[OldShame take it]] [[FelonyMisdemeanor very well]].
* Well, he does claim his actions were in the name of sanity.

to:

"What I did I did in the name of peace and sanity." [[CloudCuckooLander The Doctor]] [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotHeinous Doctor just didn't]] [[OldShame didn't take it]] [[FelonyMisdemeanor it very well]].
* Well, he does claim his actions were in the name of sanity.



Assuming he actually is a [[spoiler: previous incarnation]], then there are only two possible points he could have come from; between [[spoiler: the Eighth and Ninth Doctors]], or [[spoiler: before the First]].\\
Consider what was said about the secret, "you've been running from your whole life". The Doctor who started running was the First. So the secret dates back to him. So, although [[spoiler: he was the first ''Doctor'', he was ''not'' the first incarnation of that Timelord. He changed his name after regenerating and started running from whatever he had done]]. Yes, the First Doctor [[spoiler: wasn't really a good guy when we met him, but he was still reforming. Perhaps at that point he was thinking that he'd already done the worst he could, and couldn't really be any worse]].
* This would be consistent with [[spoiler: the multiple pre-Hartnell Doctors implied by [[Recap/DoctorWhoS13E5TheBrainOfMorbius The Brain of Morbius.]]]]

to:

Assuming he actually is a [[spoiler: previous incarnation]], then there are only two possible points he could have come from; between [[spoiler: the Eighth and Ninth Doctors]], or [[spoiler: before the First]].\\
Consider what was said about the secret, "you've been running from your whole life". The Doctor who started running was the First. So the secret dates back to him. So, although [[spoiler: he was the first ''Doctor'', he was ''not'' the first incarnation of that Timelord. He changed his name after regenerating and started running from whatever he had done]]. Yes, the First Doctor [[spoiler: wasn't really a good guy when we met him, but he was still reforming. Perhaps at that point he was thinking that he'd already done the worst he could, and couldn't really be any worse]].
*
worse]]. This would be consistent with [[spoiler: the multiple pre-Hartnell Doctors implied by [[Recap/DoctorWhoS13E5TheBrainOfMorbius The Brain of Morbius.]]]]



* The EU toys with the idea that the Doctor was, in an earlier life ([[ContinuitySnarl via either]] an incarnation before the First, a literal reincarnation, literally made from his raw material, etc), a Time Lord known as "the Other", who co-founded Time Lord society alongside Rassilon and Omega.
** And the unforgivable crime he commited was none other than the very founding of Time Lords society. It has been implid several times in both series that Gallifrey held '''A lot''' of skeletons in its tardis sized closets, remember: ''The oldest civilisation: decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen - '''they're still in the nursery compared to us'''.''
*** ...which the Doctor said because he was being put on trial in a kangaroo court. Either way, "implied"? We're explicitly told that Time Lords of old used to pluck beings from out of time and force them to fight to the death in gladiatorial combat, and we've seen what Rassilon - a ''hero'' to Time Lord society - was [[OmnicidalManiac really like]] in The End of Time. Every time Gallifrey was visited in the old series, we've seen Time Lord corruption, either on personal or widespread scales. The Doctor being the Other could still be true, though (and explains why he has no real name).

to:

* The EU toys with the idea that the Doctor was, in an earlier life ([[ContinuitySnarl via either]] an incarnation before the First, a literal reincarnation, literally made from his raw material, etc), a Time Lord known as "the Other", who co-founded Time Lord society alongside Rassilon and Omega. \n** And the The unforgivable crime he commited was none other than the very founding of Time Lords society. It has been implid several times in both series that Gallifrey held '''A lot''' of skeletons in its tardis sized closets, remember: ''The oldest civilisation: decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen - '''they're still in the nursery compared to us'''.''
*** ...which the Doctor said because he was being put on trial in a kangaroo court. Either way, "implied"? We're explicitly told that Time Lords of old used to pluck beings from out of time and force them to fight to the death in gladiatorial combat, and we've seen what Rassilon - a ''hero'' to Time Lord society - was [[OmnicidalManiac really like]] in The End of Time. Every time Gallifrey was visited in the old series, we've seen Time Lord corruption, either on personal or widespread scales. The Doctor being the Other could still be true, though (and explains why he has no real name).
[[spoiler: Jossed.]]



* That's actually the same Rose, just at a later point in her timeline.
** I think they're trying to say they think this Rose is post-Journey's End. Not that this is the case, anyway.

to:

* That's actually the same Rose, just at a later point in her timeline.
** I think they're trying to say they think this Rose is post-Journey's End. Not that this is the case, anyway.



* I figured Porridge pushed that button himself, considering who he turned out to be, and the rather pointed way he mentioned how much whoever did it must be suffering, but perhaps I misinterpreted that...
* Another possibility is that it was one of his ancestors, a previous Emperor, who pushed the button.

to:

* I figured Porridge pushed that button himself, considering who he turned out to be, and the rather pointed way he mentioned how much whoever did it must be suffering, but perhaps I misinterpreted that...
* Another possibility is that it was one of his ancestors, a previous Emperor, who pushed the button.



The events in this episode didn't fit the description given by Dorium Maldovar. The Great Intelligence asked the question on the Tardis, not on the fields of Trenzalore. When it was asked, it wasn't at a time when "no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer". If it was, then the Doctor would have said his name. And the Fall of the Eleventh didn't occur. A couple of things in the episode could be described as a fall, but nothing that stands out as a significant moment. I believe the true question will be asked when Creator/MattSmith regenerates, and this will also be on Trenzalore. He will be asked the question again, possibly by River Song, as we still don't know how she knows his name.
* Massive fanwank aside, most of these are readily explainable. The 'Fall of the Eleventh' refers to the Tardis' antigrav being turned off, which stood out quite readily. The Great Intelligence asked the question on the Tardis, but a version of it that had grown and had become overgrown with weeds and

to:

The events in this episode didn't fit the description given by Dorium Maldovar. The Great Intelligence asked the question on the Tardis, not on the fields of Trenzalore. When it was asked, it wasn't at a time when "no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer". If it was, then the Doctor would have said his name. And the The Fall of the Eleventh didn't occur. A couple of things in the episode could be described as a fall, but nothing that stands out as a significant moment. I believe the The true question will be asked when Creator/MattSmith regenerates, and this will also be on Trenzalore. He will be asked the question again, possibly by River Song, as we still don't know how she knows his name.
* Massive fanwank aside, most of these are readily explainable.Jossed. The 'Fall of the Eleventh' refers to the Tardis' antigrav being turned off, which stood out quite readily. The Great Intelligence asked the question on the Tardis, but a version of it that had grown and had become overgrown with weeds and



The crack in the TARDIS window is also present on [[spoiler: the giant dead future TARDIS]]. Also, Clara, having seen [[spoiler: the whole Doctor's life, past, present, and probably future as well]] mentions that there are 11 Doctors. Which would mean either that the [[spoiler:Trenzalore!]]Doctor is the Eleventh (and this will come before the TARDIS could heal her window, so pretty soon), or that no other incarnation of the Doctor will deserve [[spoiler: that name ever again]].

to:

The crack in the TARDIS window is also present on [[spoiler: the giant dead future TARDIS]]. Also, Clara, having seen [[spoiler: the whole Doctor's life, past, present, and probably future as well]] mentions that there are 11 Doctors. Which would mean either that the [[spoiler:Trenzalore!]]Doctor is the Eleventh (and this will come before the TARDIS could heal her window, so pretty soon), or that no other incarnation of the Doctor will deserve [[spoiler: that name ever again]].



The meta implications alone are delightful: [[spoiler: an "official" Ninth Doctor later retconned out of the canon by the BBC, who ultimately becomes a Ninth Doctor retconned out of the canon (in a manner of speaking) ''by the character himself''. That the Shalka Doctor was originally played by Richard E. Grant (Simeon/The Great Intelligence) adds an extra layer of irony that seems irresistable - and possibly even intentional - to a TrollingCreator like Moffatt. Having Grant reprise the role, though, would've been too on-the-nose, so having him play the season's villain serves as the requisite nod to the character's origin.]]
** Best theory I've heard all year.
** This theory is by sfdebris.

to:

The meta implications alone are delightful: [[spoiler: an "official" Ninth Doctor later retconned out of the canon by the BBC, who ultimately becomes a Ninth Doctor retconned out of the canon (in a manner of speaking) ''by the character himself''. That the Shalka Doctor was originally played by Richard E. Grant (Simeon/The Great Intelligence) adds an extra layer of irony that seems is irresistable - and possibly even intentional - to a TrollingCreator like Moffatt. Having Grant reprise the role, though, would've been too on-the-nose, so having him play the season's villain serves as the requisite nod to the character's origin.]]
** Best theory I've heard all year.
** This theory is by sfdebris.



* [[spoiler: There are two particular points in the revival where the Doctor is mentioned in conjunction with the Medusa Cascade. In ''The Sound of Drums'' the Master mentions that the Doctor closed the Rift in the Medusa Cascade single-handedly. In ''The Fires of Pompeii'', Evelina mentions that the Doctor's name "burns across the stars, in the Cascade of Medusa herself". Given that John Hurt's Doctor was likely using his real name, this is where his atrocity was most likely commited.]]

to:

* [[spoiler: There are two particular points in the revival where the Doctor is mentioned in conjunction with the Medusa Cascade. In ''The Sound of Drums'' the Master mentions that the Doctor closed the Rift in the Medusa Cascade single-handedly. In ''The Fires of Pompeii'', Evelina mentions that the Doctor's name "burns across the stars, in the Cascade of Medusa herself". Given that John Hurt's Doctor was likely using his real name, this is where his atrocity was most likely commited.Jossed.]]



* Except that, according to WordOfGod, the first shot of the Time War was seen in ''Genesis of the Daleks.'' Meaning that if anyone was directly responsible for starting it, it was the Time Lord who sent Four on his unwilling mission to Skaro.
** That doesn't mean [[spoiler: Hurt's Doctor]] couldn't be responsible for sending the Time Lord who sent Four on that mission, though.

to:

* Except that, according to WordOfGod, the first shot of the Time War was seen in ''Genesis of the Daleks.'' Meaning that if anyone was directly responsible for starting it, it was the Time Lord who sent Four on his unwilling mission to Skaro.
** That doesn't mean [[spoiler: Hurt's Doctor]] couldn't be responsible for sending the Time Lord who sent Four on that mission, though.
*Jossed.



This is a Wild Mass Guess for you. He did something even the Doctor is not happy with. But something in the end that was necessary. Because with the time lord gone, it is the Daleks who are ironically times best defense.

to:

This is a Wild Mass Guess for you. He did something even the Doctor is not happy with. But something in the end that was necessary. Because with the time lord gone, it is the Daleks who are ironically times best defense.



[[WMG: The [[spoiler: Silence...]] ]]
...were present in the episode, we just didn't see them. Specifically, they are spying on Jenny and Vastra. Jenny looks like she sees something that she couldn't quite focus on, just like when Amy saw the [[spoiler: Silence]] for the first time, and is then interrupted by Vastra stepping in front of her, just like Rory did. It could have been the Whispermen she saw, but there is a remarkable similarity to The Day of the Moon.

to:

[[WMG: The [[spoiler: Silence...]] ]]
...
Silence were present in the episode, we just didn't see them.them]]
Specifically, they are spying on Jenny and Vastra. Jenny looks like she sees something that she couldn't quite focus on, just like when Amy saw the [[spoiler: Silence]] for the first time, and is then interrupted by Vastra stepping in front of her, just like Rory did. It could have been the Whispermen she saw, but there is a remarkable similarity to The Day of the Moon.



* And he could be responsible for the death of Susan's parents, or, indeed, of his entire family except her. That would be something to run from (and unDoctorly enough).

to:

* And he He could be responsible for the death of Susan's parents, or, indeed, of his entire family except her. That would be something to run from (and unDoctorly enough).



* While this troper favors the theory that John hurt is a pre-Hartnell regeneration... If the Doctor saw the [[spoiler: John Hurt!Doctor]] in the Schism committing the unspeakable act he could still have the secret by the time he left Gallifrey. That way, [[spoiler: John Hurt]] could be anywhere in Eleven's past or future.
* Makes sense. We know the Doctor has been running from his secret all his life, but we also know that he ran because of something he saw in the Untempered Schism.

to:

* While this troper favors the theory that John hurt is a pre-Hartnell regeneration... If the Doctor saw the [[spoiler: John Hurt!Doctor]] in the Schism committing the unspeakable act he could still have the secret by the time he left Gallifrey. That way, [[spoiler: John Hurt]] could be anywhere in Eleven's past or future.
* Makes sense.
future. We know the Doctor has been running from his secret all his life, but we also know that he ran because of something he saw in the Untempered Schism.
5th Apr '15 12:20:39 PM ACW
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For a good reason; they were bad, and were planning something which would put them on the level of a CompleteMonster. Ultimately, there was only one thing that could be done. Afterwards, he [[spoiler: forced his own regeneration, into the First Doctor, abandoned his name, grabbed his granddaughter (who probably didn't know what he had done), and ran.]] And how could he ever stop after that?

to:

For a good reason; they were bad, and were planning something which would put them on the level of a CompleteMonster.worst level. Ultimately, there was only one thing that could be done. Afterwards, he [[spoiler: forced his own regeneration, into the First Doctor, abandoned his name, grabbed his granddaughter (who probably didn't know what he had done), and ran.]] And how could he ever stop after that?
13th Jan '15 9:39:48 PM troodos
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[[spoiler:The Name of the Doctor implies that the Clara who has been travelling with the Doctor since The Bells of Saint John was the original version, and that the rest are all just temporal duplicates created when she entered the Doctor's timeline to undo the Great Intelligence's meddling. However, in The Bells of Saint John, Clara uses the mnemonic "Run, you clever boy, and remember" when entering the wi-fi password, which was the phrase that tipped the Doctor off to her identity both here and in The Snowmen. She subconsciously knew this phrase in modern London because that version of her was yet another of the iterations created when she entered the Doctor's timeline.]]

to:

[[spoiler:The Name of the Doctor implies that the Clara who has been travelling with the Doctor since The Bells of Saint John was the original version, and that the rest are all just temporal duplicates created when she entered the Doctor's timeline to undo the Great Intelligence's meddling. However, in The Bells of Saint John, Clara uses the mnemonic "Run, you clever boy, and remember" when entering the wi-fi password, which was the phrase that tipped the Doctor off to her identity both here and in The Snowmen. She subconsciously knew this phrase in modern London because that version of her was yet another of the iterations created when she entered the Doctor's timeline.]]


[[WMG: The Great Intelligence's goal had nothing to do with the Doctor]]
[[spoiler:When the Great Intelligence stepped into The Doctor's time stream it wasn't due to any personal vendetta, but because it wanted to be reunited with it's body. According to the EU, the Great Intelligence is actually [[EldritchAbomination Yog-Sothoth's]] disembodied consciousness. Anybody who is familiar with the Cthulhu Mythos knows that this means that The Great Intelligence's body consists of all of time and space, which is precisely where The GI's consciousness was sent when it entered the time stream. Screwing up The Doctor''s history was just a bonus.
]]
25th Jun '14 6:29:23 AM TheWildWestPyro
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Added DiffLines:

'''WARNING! THERE MAY BE UNMARKED SPOILERS!'''
4th Jun '14 1:03:40 PM StFan
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* Or [[Recap/DoctorWhoNSS4E6TheDoctorsDaughter Jenny.]]

to:

* Or [[Recap/DoctorWhoNSS4E6TheDoctorsDaughter [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E6TheDoctorsDaughter Jenny.]]
1st May '14 9:55:39 AM MrThorfan64
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* There's a few short episodes on the series 6 DVD boxset, under the umbrella name Night and the Doctor. One of them involves the Doctor being bombarded from all directions by River at different points in her life (and hilariously trying to keep them from meeting each other), but just before the episode ends a version of him and River arrive just prior to the Doctor going to the singing towers (which is where River told Ten she was given her screwdriver) - so while we don't see the actual events, it's already happened.

to:

* There's a few short episodes on the series 6 DVD boxset, under the umbrella name Night and the Doctor. One of them involves the Doctor being bombarded from all directions by River at different points in her life (and hilariously trying to keep them from meeting each other), but just before the episode ends a version of him and River arrive just prior to the Doctor going to the singing towers (which is where River told Ten she was given her screwdriver) - so while we don't see the actual events, it's already happened.happened.

[[WMG: [[spoiler:There is no "original" Clara]] (Spoilers for The Name of the Doctor)]]
[[spoiler:The Name of the Doctor implies that the Clara who has been travelling with the Doctor since The Bells of Saint John was the original version, and that the rest are all just temporal duplicates created when she entered the Doctor's timeline to undo the Great Intelligence's meddling. However, in The Bells of Saint John, Clara uses the mnemonic "Run, you clever boy, and remember" when entering the wi-fi password, which was the phrase that tipped the Doctor off to her identity both here and in The Snowmen. She subconsciously knew this phrase in modern London because that version of her was yet another of the iterations created when she entered the Doctor's timeline.]]
22nd Apr '14 9:33:37 AM MrThorfan64
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[[WMG: The Gallifreyan Clara was named Claraoswinoswald]]

to:

[[WMG: The Gallifreyan Clara was named Claraoswinoswald]]Claraoswinoswald]]

[[WMG: The Name of the Doctor is not the last time we will see River]]
While some see "The Name of the Doctor" as a heartfelt and effective way to end a long-running character, it does not mean that River is gone forever. Quite the contrary. This still leaves one thing open: River still needs to receive the screwdriver BEFORE the library. And before you say it can be assumed this happened off screen... the Doctor as we have seen him has never had that exact model. We recently saw in "The Cold War" that it DOES have a red setting (implying it is getting closer), it still lacks the trigger-looking feature seen in the Library two-parter. Therefore, the 11th Doctor will go out in a way similar to the Tenth Doctor as he will visit her one last time to give her the screwdriver, tying up every plotline regarding River and giving Alex Kingston and the character a good send off (in the 50th or The Christmas Special) and giving the 12th Doctor the chance to get a new screwdriver.
* There's a few short episodes on the series 6 DVD boxset, under the umbrella name Night and the Doctor. One of them involves the Doctor being bombarded from all directions by River at different points in her life (and hilariously trying to keep them from meeting each other), but just before the episode ends a version of him and River arrive just prior to the Doctor going to the singing towers (which is where River told Ten she was given her screwdriver) - so while we don't see the actual events, it's already happened.
This list shows the last 10 events of 206. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.DoctorWhoS33E13TheNameOfTheDoctor