History UsefulNotes / TheVietnamWar

17th Feb '17 8:01:03 PM ChesterPolarbear
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'''Important Note''': As if you couldn't tell by this article, this war and its outcome is still a ''very'' strong point of contention in the USA more than 40 years later, even among people who weren't even alive at the time! Along with The Civil Rights Movement, [[NewAgeRetroHippie hippies]], [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon the 'Watergate Scandal']], and all the lingering cultural debates of TheSixties and TheSeventies, it was/is one of the key controversies in [[BrokenBase modern American politics]]. Communists, socialists, anarchists[[labelnote:]] (none of the preceding three groups exist to any significant extent in the USA anymore, though there are still enough Americans willing to declare themselves "Socialist" that the label is only ''mostly'' toxic)[[/labelnote]] and modern liberals as well as most libertarians, "paleoconservatives", the [[ConspiracyTheorist John Birch Society]] and many moderate right-wingers still consider the war a [[WhatASenselessWasteOfHumanLife senseless waste of human life]] and point to the 'My Lai Massacre', President-for-life Diem's dictatorial rule, and 'Operation Phoenix' as evidence that there [[HeWhoFightsMonsters wasn't]] [[BlackAndGrayMorality much]] [[BlackAndBlackMorality difference]] between the "good guys" and the DirtyCommunists. By '''''stark''''' contrast, the USA's conservatives, nationalists, and old-style liberals[[labelnote:]] (this group in particular ended up thoroughly discredited in the long run, though some politicians like Hillary Clinton retain the worldview)[[/labelnote]] continue to believe that the USA and France before them would have won if not for the (left-wing) public's "betrayal" of the country's military forces, that the BananaRepublic of South Vietnam was still ALighterShadeOfGrey than its Communist counterpart, and contend that more people died because the USA left than were killed by the USA's troops or by its enemies during the war [[note]] In what had once been South Vietnam, ''far'' more people were 're-educated' than executed, though said process wasn't all daisies, sunshine, and rainbows, and it still sent hundreds of thousands fleeing for their lives. But just across the border in Cambodia, the anti-Soviet/Chinese-backed communist regime ''[[Film/TheKillingFields exterminated one-quarter of its own population]]'' (1.4-2.2 million), something that was at least delayed by US airpower hammering the Khmer Rouge and preventing them from overthrowing the ramshackle BananaRepublic there. The common argument is that if the USA had stayed on, they would have prevented Pol Pot and the other Communist leaders coming to power, or at least have intervened had the signs become obvious. As it was, the genocide dragged on until Soviet-backed ''Communist Vietnam'' got fed up with Khmer Rouge provocations and rivalries and decided to topple their regime and install a puppet government of their own there[[/note]] and would have been killed if the war had continued.

to:

'''Important Note''': As if you couldn't tell by this article, this war and its outcome is still a ''very'' strong point of contention in the USA more than 40 years later, even among people who weren't even alive at the time! Along with The Civil Rights Movement, [[NewAgeRetroHippie hippies]], [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon the 'Watergate Scandal']], and all the lingering cultural debates of TheSixties and TheSeventies, it was/is one of the key controversies in [[BrokenBase modern American politics]]. Communists, socialists, anarchists[[labelnote:]] (none of the preceding three groups exist to any significant extent in the USA anymore, though there are still enough Americans willing to declare themselves "Socialist" that the label is only ''mostly'' toxic)[[/labelnote]] and modern liberals as well as most libertarians, "paleoconservatives", the [[ConspiracyTheorist far-right [[TheExtremistWasRight John Birch Society]] and many moderate right-wingers still consider the war a [[WhatASenselessWasteOfHumanLife senseless waste of human life]] and point to the 'My Lai Massacre', President-for-life Diem's dictatorial rule, and 'Operation Phoenix' as evidence that there [[HeWhoFightsMonsters wasn't]] [[BlackAndGrayMorality much]] [[BlackAndBlackMorality difference]] between the "good guys" and the DirtyCommunists. By '''''stark''''' contrast, the USA's conservatives, nationalists, and old-style liberals[[labelnote:]] (this group in particular ended up thoroughly discredited in the long run, though some politicians like Hillary Clinton retain the worldview)[[/labelnote]] continue to believe that the USA and France before them would have won if not for the (left-wing) public's "betrayal" of the country's military forces, that the BananaRepublic of South Vietnam was still ALighterShadeOfGrey than its Communist counterpart, and contend that more people died because the USA left than were killed by the USA's troops or by its enemies during the war [[note]] In what had once been South Vietnam, ''far'' more people were 're-educated' than executed, though said process wasn't all daisies, sunshine, and rainbows, and it still sent hundreds of thousands fleeing for their lives. But just across the border in Cambodia, the anti-Soviet/Chinese-backed communist regime ''[[Film/TheKillingFields exterminated one-quarter of its own population]]'' (1.4-2.2 million), something that was at least delayed by US airpower hammering the Khmer Rouge and preventing them from overthrowing the ramshackle BananaRepublic there. The common argument is that if the USA had stayed on, they would have prevented Pol Pot and the other Communist leaders coming to power, or at least have intervened had the signs become obvious. As it was, the genocide dragged on until Soviet-backed ''Communist Vietnam'' got fed up with Khmer Rouge provocations and rivalries and decided to topple their regime and install a puppet government of their own there[[/note]] and would have been killed if the war had continued.
7th Feb '17 12:30:07 PM korpse_man
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Film/PathToWar'' Deals with President UsefulNotes/LyndonJohnson and his cabinet managing the war.
1st Feb '17 6:40:24 PM ChesterPolarbear
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'''Important Note''': As if you couldn't tell by this article, this war and its outcome is still a ''very'' strong point of contention in the USA more than 40 years later, even among people who weren't even alive at the time! Along with The Civil Rights Movement, [[NewAgeRetroHippie hippies]], [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon the 'Watergate Scandal']], and all the lingering cultural debates of TheSixties and TheSeventies, it was/is one of the key controversies in [[BrokenBase modern American politics]]. Communists, socialists, anarchists[[labelnote:]] (none of the preceding three groups exist to any significant extent in the USA anymore, though there are still enough Americans willing to declare themselves "Socialist" that the label is only ''mostly'' toxic)[[/labelnote]] and modern liberals as well as most libertarians, "paleoconservatives", and many moderate right-wingers still consider the war a [[WhatASenselessWasteOfHumanLife senseless waste of human life]] and point to the 'My Lai Massacre', President-for-life Diem's dictatorial rule, and 'Operation Phoenix' as evidence that there [[HeWhoFightsMonsters wasn't]] [[BlackAndGrayMorality much]] [[BlackAndBlackMorality difference]] between the "good guys" and the DirtyCommunists. By '''''stark''''' contrast, the USA's conservatives, nationalists, and old-style liberals[[labelnote:]] (this group in particular ended up thoroughly discredited in the long run, though some politicians like Hillary Clinton retain the worldview)[[/labelnote]] continue to believe that the USA and France before them would have won if not for the (left-wing) public's "betrayal" of the country's military forces, that the BananaRepublic of South Vietnam was still ALighterShadeOfGrey than its Communist counterpart, and contend that more people died because the USA left than were killed by the USA's troops or by its enemies during the war [[note]] In what had once been South Vietnam, ''far'' more people were 're-educated' than executed, though said process wasn't all daisies, sunshine, and rainbows, and it still sent hundreds of thousands fleeing for their lives. But just across the border in Cambodia, the anti-Soviet/Chinese-backed communist regime ''[[Film/TheKillingFields exterminated one-quarter of its own population]]'' (1.4-2.2 million), something that was at least delayed by US airpower hammering the Khmer Rouge and preventing them from overthrowing the ramshackle BananaRepublic there. The common argument is that if the USA had stayed on, they would have prevented Pol Pot and the other Communist leaders coming to power, or at least have intervened had the signs become obvious. As it was, the genocide dragged on until Soviet-backed ''Communist Vietnam'' got fed up with Khmer Rouge provocations and rivalries and decided to topple their regime and install a puppet government of their own there[[/note]] and would have been killed if the war had continued.

to:

'''Important Note''': As if you couldn't tell by this article, this war and its outcome is still a ''very'' strong point of contention in the USA more than 40 years later, even among people who weren't even alive at the time! Along with The Civil Rights Movement, [[NewAgeRetroHippie hippies]], [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon the 'Watergate Scandal']], and all the lingering cultural debates of TheSixties and TheSeventies, it was/is one of the key controversies in [[BrokenBase modern American politics]]. Communists, socialists, anarchists[[labelnote:]] (none of the preceding three groups exist to any significant extent in the USA anymore, though there are still enough Americans willing to declare themselves "Socialist" that the label is only ''mostly'' toxic)[[/labelnote]] and modern liberals as well as most libertarians, "paleoconservatives", the [[ConspiracyTheorist John Birch Society]] and many moderate right-wingers still consider the war a [[WhatASenselessWasteOfHumanLife senseless waste of human life]] and point to the 'My Lai Massacre', President-for-life Diem's dictatorial rule, and 'Operation Phoenix' as evidence that there [[HeWhoFightsMonsters wasn't]] [[BlackAndGrayMorality much]] [[BlackAndBlackMorality difference]] between the "good guys" and the DirtyCommunists. By '''''stark''''' contrast, the USA's conservatives, nationalists, and old-style liberals[[labelnote:]] (this group in particular ended up thoroughly discredited in the long run, though some politicians like Hillary Clinton retain the worldview)[[/labelnote]] continue to believe that the USA and France before them would have won if not for the (left-wing) public's "betrayal" of the country's military forces, that the BananaRepublic of South Vietnam was still ALighterShadeOfGrey than its Communist counterpart, and contend that more people died because the USA left than were killed by the USA's troops or by its enemies during the war [[note]] In what had once been South Vietnam, ''far'' more people were 're-educated' than executed, though said process wasn't all daisies, sunshine, and rainbows, and it still sent hundreds of thousands fleeing for their lives. But just across the border in Cambodia, the anti-Soviet/Chinese-backed communist regime ''[[Film/TheKillingFields exterminated one-quarter of its own population]]'' (1.4-2.2 million), something that was at least delayed by US airpower hammering the Khmer Rouge and preventing them from overthrowing the ramshackle BananaRepublic there. The common argument is that if the USA had stayed on, they would have prevented Pol Pot and the other Communist leaders coming to power, or at least have intervened had the signs become obvious. As it was, the genocide dragged on until Soviet-backed ''Communist Vietnam'' got fed up with Khmer Rouge provocations and rivalries and decided to topple their regime and install a puppet government of their own there[[/note]] and would have been killed if the war had continued.
9th Jan '17 2:09:23 AM jamespolk
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Film/HeartsAndMinds'' - a scathing documentary look at America's conduct in Vietnam, made shortly before the war ended.
8th Jan '17 3:26:57 PM nombretomado
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* Nuke is a minor MarvelComics villain who was created as a knock-off/successor to ComicBook/CaptainAmerica, in hopes that he'd helped win the Vietnam War. He turned out to be a barely controllable, insanely patriotic killing machine. His EvilCounterpart status gets pushed up a notch in UltimateMarvel, where he's explicitly referred to as "The Captain America of the Vietnam War", in contrast to the original being "Captain America of World War II".

to:

* Nuke is a minor MarvelComics villain who was created as a knock-off/successor to ComicBook/CaptainAmerica, in hopes that he'd helped win the Vietnam War. He turned out to be a barely controllable, insanely patriotic killing machine. His EvilCounterpart status gets pushed up a notch in UltimateMarvel, ComicBook/UltimateMarvel, where he's explicitly referred to as "The Captain America of the Vietnam War", in contrast to the original being "Captain America of World War II".
30th Dec '16 12:43:28 PM ChesterPolarbear
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Added DiffLines:

* General Gum on ''WesternAnimation/KingOfTheHill'' served as a Royal Lao Army general during the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/Laotion_Civil_War secret war]] in Laos.
22nd Dec '16 2:12:18 AM 06tele
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This is also the first American war (the French first used them to great effect in Algeria) to feature helicopters as a weapon and primary transport in [[UsefulNotes/KoreanWar Korea]] they were very small, and limited to recon and [[Series/{{Mash}} light medical evacuation]]. The UH-1 Huey, with both side doors open, flying low over the canopy of a jungle with a grizzled soldier manning the door gun is one of the war's most enduring images.

to:

This is also the first American war (the French first used them to great effect in Algeria) to feature helicopters as a weapon and primary transport in [[UsefulNotes/KoreanWar Korea]] they were very small, and limited to recon and [[Series/{{Mash}} light medical evacuation]]. The UH-1 Huey, with both side doors open, flying low over the canopy of a jungle with a grizzled soldier manning the door gun is one of the war's most enduring images.
images.[[note]]Anyone who has ever seen a Huey in flight knows that they don't have the tenor whirring sound of more modern helicopters: they really do make a deep "whup-whup-whup" that can be heard ''miles'' off.[[/note]]
30th Nov '16 11:14:15 AM ChesterPolarbear
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* ''Go Tell the Spartans''
28th Nov '16 9:08:42 PM TheWildWestPyro
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[[quoteright:350:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screen_shot_2016_11_29_at_10315_pm.png]]

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28th Nov '16 9:04:10 PM TheWildWestPyro
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[[quoteright:350:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/vietnam_war.jpg]]

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