History Trivia / TheCloneSaga

** A lot of people involved weren't happy with how the story was going and this resulted in quite a few changes in direction.

** The series was prolonged due to sales, causing the quality to take a dive. The Clone Saga had the misfortune of debuting during a regime change in ''Marvel's'' editorial staff; the high-earners (Editor-in-chiefs who managed to boost sales during the comics recession) were kept on; losers found themselves demoted or downsized. This ''Glengarry Glen Ross'' approach put extra pressure on editors to prolong the Clone Saga event, even if it meant [[TheChrisCarterEffect dropping meaningless hints and clues]] to tantalize readers. Consequently, several "back door" escape routes were proposed and rejected. (See below) The end result was that the Clone Saga, intended to dispel the [[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks dark, brooding]] tone of the 90's Spidey books and go "back to basics", ended up becoming the darkest and [[ContinuityLockOut most impenetrable]] story yet.
** Not to mention that, like ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'', it was an attempt to return to the days when Spider-Man was single.

* ScienceMarchesOn: A very odd example occurred during this story- in the 80s and 90s some scientists started to believe that cloning was impossible, and for some bizarre reason the writers of an outlandish superhero comic decided that this "fact" undermined the entire clone saga and needed to be addressed, so Miles Warren was retconned [[note]]prior to the actual 90s Clone Saga, but the story brings it up anyway[[/note]] into actually creating a weird sort of virus that rewrote the [=DNA=] of captured individuals so that they became copies of the original and then wiped and somehow rewrote their memories so they were not ''actually'' clones...which got very awkward a few years later when scientists successfully cloned sheep and other animals, thus disproving the idea that cloning was impossible. To make it more awkward still, neither any virus nor actual human cloning would have the precise effects that the Jackals' cloning efforts are portrayed as having (real life clones are more like glorified identical twins, for instance), so both explanations were always pure science fiction anyway.
* TrailersAlwaysSpoil:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A ''lot''. They can all be read on the ''Life Of Reilly'' article. A few notable ones, some of which were uses in the 2009-2010 "director's cut":

* WordOfGod: The ''Life Of Reilly'' article features commentary from people involved in the Clone Saga, including revealing bits that didn't make it into the story such as Kaine's costume featuring a Life-support system and as a result of the defects in him, his PsychicPowers and Mark of Kaine were just amped up versions of Spidey's Spider-Sense and Wall-clinging abilities.
* WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants: There wasn't really a single writer or writer-artist team behind the project (unlike the original clone saga by Creator/GerryConway which had a clarity of intent and purpose[[note]]Chiefly that Gwen Stacy was gone and it wouldn't be the same if she came back, and Peter and MJ are made for each other which was what that entire story was about[[/note]]), instead there was a story by committee, where each group and individual had no idea where to take it. EIC Tom Defalco tried to give it direction and ensure there was a way to undo what he saw was a short-term gimmick and project at best but once marketing and sales took over and he stepped down, the entire project went out of control. According to legend, at one point when considering how to end the project, ideas were pitched not only to the Spidey team, but all of Marvel, and even the janitors, office clerks and non-creatives were asked for their opinion.

** The famous [[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Life of Reilly]] details what went on behind the scenes, but long story short, what prolonged it was greed (despite the criticisms and mocking it gets, [[CriticProof it]] ''[[CriticProof was]]'' [[CriticProof making Marvel money]]), attempts to recreate the success of [[ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse another storyline from the same time]] (hence the "Maximum Clonage: Alpha and Omega" one-shots and the ''Scarlet Spider'' titles for a few months), [[TroubledProduction trouble behind the scenes]] over where to go with the story, and not wanting the finale to compete with the ComicBook/{{Onslaught}} storyline.

** ComicBook/TomDeFalco as EIC thought the Clone Saga sounded like a bad idea right from the start, especially the whole replace Ben Reilly with Peter Parker thing. But the Spidey writing team were enthusiastic about it and he, reluctantly, agreed to it on the proviso that a backdoor be inserted to undo the whole thing if, and when, audiences revolted at the story. He ended up losing his authority when sales and marketing were given say over him and that extended the saga interminably.

** Tom Defalco as EIC thought the Clone Saga sounded like a bad idea right from the start, especially the whole replace Ben Reilly with Peter Parker thing. But the Spidey writing team were enthusiastic about it and he, reluctantly, agreed to it on the proviso that a backdoor be inserted to undo the whole thing if, and when, audiences revolted at the story. He ended up losing his authority when sales and marketing were given say over him and that extended the saga interminably.

* WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants: There wasn't really a single writer or writer-artist team behind the project (unlike the original clone saga by Creator/GerryConway which had a clarity of intent and purpose), instead there was a story by committee, where each group and individual had no idea where to take it. EIC Tom Defalco tried to give it direction and ensure there was a way to undo what he saw was a short-term gimmick and project at best but once marketing and sales took over and he stepped down, the entire project went out of control. According to legend, at one point when considering how to end the project, ideas were pitched not only to the Spidey team, but all of Marvel, and even the janitors, office clerks and non-creatives were asked for their opinion.

* OldShame: Quite a few people involved aren't fond of the saga themselves.

* WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants: Looking behind-the-scenes, it becomes clear that no-one really knew what was going to happen with the story. Or that someone did, but didn't let the others know; a "too many cooks spoiled the soup" argument is easy to make. Especially regarding Judas Traveler. It's since been revealed that ''no one'' on the staff had any idea what his backstory and motivations were.

* LyingCreator: Some fans think this of the "director's cut" miniseries; while it's hard to write a story as "originally intended" when you had a bunch of separate people having different intentions, one of the intentions was to make Peter single again and the miniseries ends with him still with MJ and baby May being alive.
* MilestoneCelebration: The saga was [[WhatCouldHaveBeen originally]] planned to end at ''Amazing Spider-Man'' #400, with Peter PutOnABus and Ben becoming the new Spider-Man. Thanks to ExecutiveMeddling, however, the story arc ended up going on for far longer due to its popularity. That said, ''ASM'' #400 was notable for Aunt May's heart-rending passing.

*** The recent "director's cut" mini-series used the idea of Harry as the mastermind, albeit having Harry faked his death rather than actually dying and coming back.

* MilestoneCelebration: The saga was [[WhatCouldHaveBeen originally]] planned to end at ''Amazing Spider-Man #400'', with Peter PutOnABus and Ben becoming the new Spider-Man. Thanks to ExecutiveMeddling, however, the story arc ended up going on for far longer due to its popularity. That said, ''ASM #400'' was notable for Aunt May's heart-rending passing.

* LyingCreator: Some fans think this of the "director's cut" miniseries; it's hard to write a story as "originally intended" when you had a bunch of separate people having different intentions.

* LyingCreator: Some fans think this of the "director's cut" miniseries; it's hard to write a story as "originally intended" when you had a bunch of separate people having different intentions.

** The famous [[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Life of Reilly]] details what went on behind the scenes, but long story short, what prolonged it was greed (despite the criticisms and mocking it gets, it ''was'' making Marvel money), attempts to recreate the success of [[ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse another storyline from the same time]] (hence the "Maximum Clonage: Alpha and Omega" one-shots and the ''Scarlet Spider'' titles for a few months), [[TroubledProduction trouble behind the scenes]] over where to go with the story, and not wanting the finale to compete with the ComicBook/{{Onslaught}} storyline.

** Not to mention that, like ''OneMoreDay'', it was an attempt to return to the days when Spider-Man was single.

** At one point no-one was the clone, and in fact Peter and Ben were the same person caught in a StableTimeLoop. When this went against Marvel time travel rules, it was decided that someone was needed who could plausibly ignore said rules. So Scrier was going to be [[OneMoreDay Mephisto]], and he was going to trick Peter Parker into going back in time and becoming Ben Reilly in order to gain the soul of Judas Traveller, who was going to be a FallenAngel. This was nixed for [[HilariousInHindsight many of the same complaints against]] OneMoreDay.

* {{Creator Backlash}}/{{Writer Revolt}}: A lot of people involved weren't happy with how the story was going and this resulted in quite a few changes in direction.

* ExecutiveMeddling: The series was prolonged due to sales, causing the quality to take a dive. The Clone Saga had the misfortune of debuting during a regime change in ''Marvel's'' editorial staff; the high-earners (Editor-in-chiefs who managed to boost sales during the comics recession) were kept on; losers found themselves demoted or downsized. This ''Glengarry Glen Ross'' approach put extra pressure on editors to prolong the Clone Saga event, even if it meant [[TheChrisCarterEffect dropping meaningless hints and clues]] to tantalize readers. Consequently, several "back door" escape routes were proposed and rejected. (See below) The end result was that the Clone Saga, intended to dispel the [[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks dark, brooding]] tone of the 90's Spidey books and go "back to basics", ended up becoming the darkest and [[ContinuityLockOut most impenetrable]] story yet.

* WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants: Looking behind-the-scenes, it becomes clear that no-one really knew what was going to happen with the story. Or that someone did, but didn't let the others know; a "too many cooks spoiled the soup" argument is easy to make.
** Especially regarding Judas Traveler. It's since been revealed that ''no one'' on the staff had any idea what his backstory and motivations were.

* ExecutiveMeddling: The series was prolonged due to sales, causing the quality to take a dive. The Clone Saga had the misfortune of debuting during a regime change in ''Marvel's'' editorial staff; the high-earners (Editor-in-chiefs who managed to boost sales during the comics recession) were kept on; losers found themselves demoted or downsized. This ''Glengarry Glen Ross'' approach put extra pressure on editors to prolong the Clone Saga event, even if it meant [[TheChrisCarterEffect dropping meaningless hints and clues]] to tantalize readers. Consequently, several "back door" escape routes were proposed and rejected. (See below) The end result was that the Clone Saga, intended to dispel the [[TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks dark, brooding]] tone of the 90's Spidey books and go "back to basics", ended up becoming the darkest and [[ContinuityLockOut most impenetrable]] story yet.

* ExecutiveVeto: This happened enough times that it almost belongs under Executive Meddling. Among the story threads that were shot down wee: Ben adopting Peter's identity after the latter passed away (leaving the Spider-canon more or less the same), one Spider-Man dying in an explosion while the surviving one [[AmbiguousCloneEnding loses his memory]], and (wait for it...) having Mephisto erase the whole thing via a CosmicRetcon.

* ExecutiveMeddling: The series was prolonged due to sales, causing the quality to take a dive. The Clone Saga had the misfortune of debuting during a regime change in ''Marvel's'' editorial staff; the high-earners (Editor-in-chiefs who managed to boost sales during the comics recession) were kept on; losers found themselves demoted or downsized. This ''Glengarry Glen Ross'' approach put extra pressure on editors to prolong the Clone Saga event, even if it meant [[TheChrisCarterEffect dropping meaningless hints and clues]] to tantalize readers. Consequently, several "back door" escape routes were proposed and rejected. (See below)

** The famous [[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Life of Reilly]] details what went on behind the scenes, but long story short, what prolonged it was greed (despite the criticisms and mocking it gets, it ''was'' making Marvel money), attempts to recreate the success of [[ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse another storyline from the same time]] (hence the "Maximum Clonage: Alpha and Omega" one-shots and the ''Scarlet Spider'' titles for a few months), [[TroubledProduction trouble behind the scenes]] over where to go with the story, and not wanting the finale to compete with the ComicBook/{{Onslaught}} storyline. The end result was that the Clone Saga, intended to dispel the [[TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks dark, brooding]] tone of the 90's Spidey books and go "back to basics", ended up becoming the darkest and [[ContinuityLockOut most impenetrable]] story yet.

* ExecutiveMeddling: The series was prolonged due to sales, causing the quality to take a dive.

* ExecutiveVeto: This happened enough times that it almost belongs under Executive Meddling. The Clone Saga had the misfortune of debuting during a regime change in ''Marvel's'' editorial staff; the high-earners (Editor-in-chiefs who managed to boost sales during the comics recession) were kept on; losers found themselves demoted or downsized. This ''Glengarry Glen Ross'' approach put extra pressure on editors to prolong the Clone Saga event, even if it meant [[TheChrisCarterEffect dropping meaningless hints and clues]] to tantalize readers. Consequently, several "back door" escape routes were proposed and rejected: these included Ben adopting Peter's identity after the latter passed away (leaving the Spider-canon more or less the same), one Spider-Man dying in an explosion while the surviving one [[AmbiguousCloneEnding loses his memory]], and (wait for it...) having Mephisto erase the whole thing via a CosmicRetcon.

* * LyingCreator: Some fans think this of the "director's cut" miniseries; it's hard to write a story as "originally intended" when you had a bunch of separate people having different intentions.

** Fan-favorite writer Tom [=DeFalco=] was often said to be particularly displeased with killing off Doc Ock, and he unfortunately wound up being required to write that issue. First chance he got after the saga, however, he brought Ock back.

** The famous [[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Life of Reilly]] details what went on behind the scenes, but long story short, what prolonged it was greed (despite the criticisms and mocking it gets, it ''was'' making Marvel money), attempts to recreate the success of [[ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse another storyline from the same time]] (hence the "Maximum Clonage: Alpha and Omega" one-shots and the ''Scarlet Spider'' titles for a few months), [[TroubledProduction trouble behind the scenes]] over where to go with the story, and not wanting the finale to compete with the {{Onslaught}} storyline. The end result was that the Clone Saga, intended to dispel the [[TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks dark, brooding]] tone of the 90's Spidey books and go "back to basics", ended up becoming the darkest and [[ContinuityLockOut most impenetrable]] story yet.

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A ''lot''. They can all be read on the ''Life Of Reilly'' article. A few notable ones:

** Another was that the character Gaunt would be the mastermind, with the idea being that the real mastermind was [[BackFromTheDead coming back from the dead]] inside Gaunt's costume, although they weren't initially sure who Gaunt would be. Eventually they decided Gaunt's identity would've been Harry Osborn, but this was felt to be too much like a previous story where Harry [[ThanatosGambit posthumously]] made robotic duplicates of Peter's parents. This led to them going back to the drawing board and making the mastermind not be Gaunt, which drew out the story even more. The mastermind became Norman Osborn, while Gaunt eventually turned out to be [[UnexpectedCharacter Mendel Stromm]].