History SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism / ComicBooks

* This is the driving point in the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' series ''[[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]]: ComicBook/CaptainAmerica'': After learning that S.H.I.E.L.D. had been hiding a number of secrets when they are revealed in a Wikileaks-styled fashion, Sam decides to stop being bipartisan and take a side politics-wise as well as quit S.H.I.E.L.D. The split is easily seen when Steve Rogers, the original Captain America and a fellow opponent of the Kobik Initiative, tries to talk Sam out of it and assure him that things will get better in the end. As Sam points out, Steve firmly believes that, when at its darkest hour, the U.S. government and people will do the right thing (idealism), while Sam only ''hopes'' that they can (cynicism). This comes back to bite Steve over in ''ComicBook/AvengersStandoff'' when he finds out that [[spoiler:S.H.I.E.L.D. [[MetaphoricallyTrue technically did shut down the project]]... then just turned it into
[[StepfordSuburbia Pleasant Hill]].]]

* This is the driving point in the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' series ''[[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]]: ComicBook/CaptainAmerica'': After learning that S.H.I.E.L.D. had been hiding a number of secrets when they are revealed in a Wikileaks-styled fashion, Sam decides to stop being bipartisan and take a side politics-wise as well as quit S.H.I.E.L.D. The split is easily seen when Steve Rogers, the original Captain America and a fellow opponent of the Kobik Initiative, tries to talk Sam out of it and assure him that things will get better in the end. As Sam points out, Steve firmly believes that, when at its darkest hour, the U.S. government and people will do the right thing (idealism), while Sam only ''hopes'' that they can (cynicism). This comes back to bite Steve over in ''ComicBook/AvengersStandoff'' when he finds out that [[spoiler:S.H.I.E.L.D. [[MetaphoricallyTrue technically did shut down the project]]... then just turned it into [[StepfordSuburbia Pleasant Hill]].]]

* SinCity is heavily cynical but so over-the-top that it's part of its charm.

* This is the driving point in the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' series ''[[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]]: ComicBook/CaptainAmerica'': After learning that S.H.I.E.L.D. had been hiding a number of secrets when they are revealed in a Wikileaks-styled fashion, Sam decides to stop being bipartisan and take a side politics-wise as well as quit S.H.I.E.L.D. The split is easily seen when Steve Rogers, the original Captain America and a fellow opponent of the Kobik Initiative, tries to talk Sam out of it and assure him that things will get better in the end. As Sam points out, Steve firmly believes that, when at its darkest hour, the U.S. government and people will do the right thing (idealism), while Sam only ''hopes'' that they can (cynicism).

* ''ComicStrip/TheBoondocks'' is a relentlessly cynical {{satire}} comic about black people, and the unstoppable nature of corporate greed.

* ''{{Boondocks}}'' is a relentlessly cynical {{satire}} comic about Black people and the unstoppable nature of corporate greed and Blaxploitation.

** There are a few authors who will completely ignore this principle when writing in the DCU; FrankMiller is probably the best-known example.
** There is one current superheroine with which this completely does not apply: {{Comicbook/Manhunter}}. In her first appearance, she killed Copperhead and has never regretted it. In fact, even people who know her secret identity aren't bothered by it - probably because of the fact that Copperhead was a mass murderer and had just slaughtered a bunch of cops. [[ComicBook/BirdsOfPrey She's even teamed up with Oracle]], been the lawyer of WonderWoman, and has consulted Batman and Superman for help before.

** Heck, Creator/GrantMorrison in general seems to lean towards the idealistic side of the scale. ''ComicBook/FinalCrisis'' especially slams hard against the idealism side by the very end what with the representation of the dark, cynical kick comics had been on being defeated by (essentially) the manifestation of the upbeat, optimistic, and fantastical comics of {{the Silver Age|OfComicBooks}}.

* ''Comicbook/ThePunisher'' is a cynical character in a shared universe; his "rightness" fluctuates wildly depending on where the series he appears in falls on the scale. In his [[Comicbook/ThePunisherMAX MAX series]], a more adult comic, there is little question to the effectiveness of his actions, and his antagonists are usually consistently pure evil ([[TwoWordsObviousTrope The Slavers]]), but in the mainstream comics, he is often shown in a less favorable light.

* This is the driving point in the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' series ''[[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]]: ComicBook/CaptainAmerica'': After learning that S.H.I.E.L.D. had been hiding a number of secrets when they are revealed in a Wikileaks-styled fashion, Sam decides to stop being bipartisan and take a side politics-wise as well as quit S.H.I.E.L.D. The split is easily seen when Steve Rogers, the original Captain America, tries to talk Sam out of it and that things will be better in the end. As Sam points out, Steve firmly believes that the U.S. government will do the right thing (idealism) while Sam only ''hopes'' that they can (cynicism).

* Scott [=McCloud=]'s ''{{Zot}}'' is a study in contrast between Zot's Earth of "far-flung future of 1965," an idealistic world with CrystalSpiresAndTogas, where everything's pretty much perfect except for some supervillainy that Zot always stops, and Jenny's Earth, ''our'' Earth, which falls into the normal realm of cynicism. In the first story arc, where Zot visits Jenny and he decides to go to a bad part of town and stop a purse-snatcher, not only does he get badly beaten, but there is a crowd of onlookers who do absolutely nothing. Even though this doesn't discourage Zot at first, after he fails to rescue some from a fire (it having been previously explained that Zot "never loses" because he believes he can never lose), he starts thinking that Jenny's Earth really isn't that good and leaves. Zot does eventually return, however, and his essential optimism and faith in human decency never seriously weakens, and even on Jenny's Earth is paid off, from time to time; similarly, Jenny's cynicism about the world, whilst justifiable and not invalid, can be misguided.

* ''[[ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye More Than Meets The Eye]]'' and ''[[ComicBook/TransformersRobotsInDisguise Robots In Disguise]]'', two ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'' comic series, are sister series set in the same universe but fall on completely opposite sides of the scale. ''More Than Meets The Eye'' is very idealistic with funny characters, an emphasis on action and humor, heartwarming moments, and heroes (and sometimes even villains) who do heroic things. ''Robots In Disguise'', on the other hand, is quite cynical with FantasticRacism, heroes who sometimes do or consider doing terrible things in the name of the greater good, and truly heroic characters like being shoved aside or having no real impact. Both series also have idealistic or cynical characters added to the main cast (''MTMTE'' has TragicHero and {{Jerkass}} Whirl and the constantly miserable Crankcase alongside idealistic characters; ''RID'' has Metalhawk who sees the best in everyone, lovable MadScientist Wheeljack, and BigGood Optimus Prime alongside mostly cynical characters).

** The SupermanBatman series manages to successfully show both titular characters on their comparative scales and makes a point of showing neither as more correct than the others. At one point, Batman states that Superman's selfless idealism is the reason why he should be considered a hero. If Superman ever let himself sink to Batman's cynicism, it wouldn't be pretty. However, it has also been stressed that, of the two of them, Batman is the more alien of the pair, mostly because of his cynicism.

* One of the draws of the ''GreenLantern and GreenArrow'' series was this, Lantern as idealistic, Arrow as cynical. This is brought up later in ''Green Lantern: Rebirth'', when GA tries to use GL's power ring to defend himself, only for Sinestro to smack him down and mocking his will as being too cynical to even get the ring to work. So, idealism isn't so bad...

** Heck, Creator/GrantMorrison in general seems to lean towards the idealistic side of the scale. ''FinalCrisis'' especially slams hard against the idealism side by the very end what with the representation of the dark, cynical kick comics had been on being defeated by (essentially) the manifestation of the upbeat, optimistic, and fantastical comics of {{the Silver Age|OfComicBooks}}.

** Heck, GrantMorrison in general seems to lean towards the idealistic side of the scale. ''FinalCrisis'' especially slams hard against the idealism side by the very end what with the representation of the dark, cynical kick comics had been on being defeated by (essentially) the manifestation of the upbeat, optimistic, and fantastical comics of {{the Silver Age|OfComicBooks}}.

** The formerly-{{canon}} version of Comicbook/{{Superman}} has killed precisely once, during {{the Dark Age|OfComicBooks}}, in order to ShootTheDog on three Kryptonians from an AlternateUniverse. Since then, writers have either [[CanonDisContinuity ignored this]], or have him regard it as a mistake that made his self-imposed prohibition against killing even stronger in response. As of current canon, Superman has never killed anyone.

** Creator/AlanMoore later felt that, partly as a result of the popularity of ''Watchmen'', later superhero comics completely missed the point and [[MisaimedFandom focused too much on the wrong things]], going [[DarkAge too far to the other side of the scale]] and forgetting to retain ''some'' level of idealism and fun in the process. In an effort to remedy this, he created ''Tom Strong'', a more idealistic superhero series, in order to even the scales a bit. He also did a landmark run on ''Supreme'' and wrote ''1963'' in a further attempt to reverse the trend.

** That said, MarkMillar is very cynical comic book author. His other most famous work was {{ComicBook/Wanted}} which also falls in the far end of the Cynical side as well as ComicBook/TheAuthority.

* The name GarthEnnis is synonymous with the word "[[ComicBook/{{Crossed}} Extreme]] [[ComicBook/TheBoys Cynicism]]". Partially due to Garth Ennis' complete aversion towards superheroes, he enjoys creating works that are dark and brutal.

* KickAss is about as cynical as it gets, even more so than Watchmen. Dave is a [[ThisLoserIsYou loser]], Big Daddy is [[spoiler: a complete fraud]], Hit Girl is [[spoiler: lied to by her father about her mother dying, and not allowed to have a normal childhood]], and everyone else except for maybe Dave's father is a scumbag of one sort or the other (Katie is a shallow bitch, Red Mist is completely unsympathetic unlike in the film, his father is a evil, etc). Despite all this, it's incredibly funny. Many people preferred the movie adaptation since it toned down the utter bleakness of the comic book, but taken on its own terms, the comic is a great BlackComedy.

* ''ThePunisher'' is a cynical character in a shared universe; his "rightness" fluctuates wildly depending on where the series he appears in falls on the scale. In his MAX series, a more adult comic, there is little question to the effectiveness of his actions, and his antagonists are usually consistently pure evil ([[TwoWordsObviousTrope The Slavers]]), but in the mainstream comics, he is often shown in a less favorable light.

** Throughout the events of ''{{Archie|Comics}} Meets ThePunisher'', Frank monologues on Riverdale's inability to deal with the scum he handles on a daily basis, while at the same time wishing he could have grown up with the quiet, friendly lifestyle that they enjoy.

** Similarly, the Marvel Universe seems to take AllOfTheOtherReindeer as a guiding principle for their sustained "realism", and has since TheSeventies. DC is leaning toward this of late as well. I understand there is prejudice in the world, but one may wonder how much distrust of the abnormal can lead people to abandon all ethics, principles, and even [[DyingLikeAnimals senses of self-preservation]].

** Brian Michael Bendis's ''{{Daredevil}}'' run, like ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar'' above, presents a hero who is uncompromising in his idealism despite living in CrapsackWorld.

* The two current ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'' comic series, ''[[ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye More Than Meets The Eye]]'' and ''[[ComicBook/TransformersRobotsInDisguise Robots In Disguise]]'', are sister series set in the same universe but fall on completely opposite sides of the scale. ''More Than Meets The Eye'' is very idealistic with funny characters, an emphasis on action and humor, heartwarming moments, and heroes (and sometimes even villains) who do heroic things. ''Robots In Disguise'', on the other hand, is quite cynical with FantasticRacism, heroes who sometimes do or consider doing terrible things in the name of the greater good, and truly heroic characters like being shoved aside or having no real impact. Both series also have idealistic or cynical characters added to the main cast (''MTMTE'' has TragicHero and {{Jerkass}} Whirl and the constantly miserable Crankcase alongside idealistic characters; ''RID'' has Metalhawk who sees the best in everyone, lovable MadScientist Wheeljack, and BigGood Optimus Prime alongside mostly cynical characters).

** AlanMoore later felt that, partly as a result of the popularity of ''Watchmen'', later superhero comics completely missed the point and [[MisaimedFandom focused too much on the wrong things]], going [[DarkAge too far to the other side of the scale]] and forgetting to retain ''some'' level of idealism and fun in the process. In an effort to remedy this, he created ''Tom Strong'', a more idealistic superhero series, in order to even the scales a bit. He also did a landmark run on ''Supreme'' and wrote ''1963'' in a further attempt to reverse the trend.
--> '''AlanMoore''': "Having deconstructed everything perhaps we really should be starting to think about [[{{Reconstruction}} putting everything back together]]."

* The name GarthEnnis is synonymous with the word "[[ComicBook/{{Crossed}} Extreme]] [[TheBoys Cynicism]]". Partially due to Garth Ennis' complete aversion towards superheroes, he enjoys creating works that are dark and brutal.