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** Speaking of Bart, the New 52 massively overhauled his character. Scott Lobdell made sweeping changes to his character in his reviled ''Teen Titans'' run, changing the FunPersonified, light-hearted Bart Allen character into a murderous, edgy rebel from the future whose characterisation flipped on a dime (this was all under one writer no less, so it's not a case of DependingOnTheWriter). Even worse, he has ''zero'' connection to the Flashes, as his name isn't even Bart Allen (it's Bar Torr) and he doesn't even use the Speed Force. This character is ''reviled'' and ''Flash'' and ''Young Justice'' fans are ''still'' hoping the real Bart will show up eventually.

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** Speaking of Bart, the New 52 massively overhauled his character. Scott Lobdell made sweeping changes to his character in his reviled ''Teen Titans'' run, changing the FunPersonified, light-hearted Bart Allen character into a murderous, edgy rebel from the future whose characterisation flipped on a dime (this was all under one writer no less, so it's not a case of DependingOnTheWriter). Even worse, he has ''zero'' connection to the Flashes, as his name isn't even Bart Allen (it's Bar Torr) and he doesn't even use the Speed Force. This character is ''reviled'' and ''Flash'' and ''Young Justice'' fans are ''still'' hoping were just counting down the real days till the ''real'' Bart will show up eventually.Allen returned which he did in 2018 in the "Flash War" Storyline and Bar Torr has been all but forgotten about.
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Can't find anything saying Lee was designed to be unlikable.


*** When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of Venom. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''.
*** Thankfully averted with his successor Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who is by far one of the two most hated Venom hosts ''by far'' (the other being Angelo). This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink -- casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote).
*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}. To say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

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*** When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', ''nothing'' apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' ''do'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once also happened when Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of Venom. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't -- he didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, them and was completely selfish) selfish -- but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". He was just a one-note bad guy who ate people a lot and wasn't even threatening because he seemed to exist to get hit with TheWorfEffect and didn't even know Peter Parker was Spider-Man, meaning he wasn't even an effective ''villain'' to Spider-Man like Eddie was. Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''.
*** Thankfully averted with his successor Flash Thompson as Agent Venom. Flash was straight-up heroic and returned to the idea of Venom's host fighting its bloodthirsty urges, while also being a darker take on Spider-Man with some complex and nuanced characterisation. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite.fan-favorite and the only Venom after Eddie to be liked. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, ''off-panel'', Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who is by far one of the two most hated Venom hosts ''by far'' (the other being Angelo). This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink unsympathetic despite the efforts of Mike Costa -- he casually abusing abused the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect protecting them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote).
*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Thankfully, on 2019's Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}. To say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled revelled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

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** Kaine, another Spider-Man clone, was a less explicit form of this trope. He wasn't really a replacement villain for an old one, but his [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Bridge Drop]] of Doc Ock solidified him in fans minds as an unwanted loser who was [[{{Metaphorgotten}} biting off more than he deserved to chew]] in casually offing a beloved, classic Spidey villain with decades of continuity to back him up, and prompted cries for Doc Ock's resurrection and Kaine's axing. Basically, Kaine managed to become a ReplacementScrappy for a character whose role he wasn't even taking over. Thankfully, Dr. Octopus was later resurrected, and Kaine performed a HeelFaceTurn, [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap saving him from the scrappy heap]].
** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage via a CosmicRetcon that took the form of a DealWithTheDevil, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor Creator/JoeQuesada's daughter. The very same Joe Quesada who had basically just enforced the break up by editorial fiat, by claiming that Peter had to be made a single again arguing that being married made Spider-Man appear "old" and that it expand opportunities for future stories. Mary Jane became a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so did everyone else]]. Reactions were negative, to say the least, as many readers already saw the whole CosmicRetcon as Quesada getting of a overall very well-liked OfficialCouple, simply because he personally disliked it, and to immediately follow up with Peter hitching up with, again, a brand new character ''named after his daughter'', was just adding a generous sprinkling of salt to the wounds and raised several questions about his motives for being so set on breaking up the couple to begin with.
*** Also, as pointed out in the Spider-Man WildMassGuessing page, all of her [[InformedAttribute Informed Attributes]] ''come from other love interests'' like Mary Jane, Black Cat, and Deb Whitman. Now people are hoping she'll "be like Gwen Stacy" and die.
*** Following the events of ComicBook/SpiderIsland, Peter and Carlie broke up. However, Carlie is not completely out of the picture and remains friends with Mary Jane, as well as serving as Spidey's occasional ally on the police force.
*** Carlie's successor as love interest is new character Cindy Moon, alias the heroine Silk and ''also'' a ReplacementScrappy. She is commonly criticized as having many Mary Sue traits, such as having Peter's exact power set, but superior in every aspect but physical strength, and being the star pupil of Ezekiel Sims [[RememberTheNewGuy who was never mentioned in any of his previous appearances]]. Adding to this, there are many fans who dislike the idea of Peter dating a fellow superhuman at all.

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*** Strangely enough, Ben became this for the Scarlet Spider identity itself. While he is the original, he pulled a HeroicSacrifice. Years later, Kaine would take the Scarlet Spider name and function as an AntiHeroSubstitute for Spider-Man which resulted in him becoming an EnsembleDarkHorse. Ben would return as the Jackal years later as an AntiVillain before running off to parts unknown and reclaiming the Scarlet Spider identity. However, his downright unlikability and villainous behaviour in his ''Scarlet Spider'' series, the development he'd undergone that changed him from a rougher but more back-to-basics version of Peter Parker to a cynical asshole who aped Deadpool's style of writing made him one for ''Kaine'', who still interacted with Ben while using the Scarlet Spider name and costume but existed to be beaten up repeatedly. So people now wanted Kaine back as the Scarlet Spider proper and for ''Ben'' to go away.
** Kaine, another Spider-Man clone, was a less explicit form of this trope. He wasn't really a replacement villain for an old one, but his [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Bridge Drop]] of Doc Ock solidified him in fans minds as an unwanted loser who was [[{{Metaphorgotten}} biting off more than he deserved to chew]] in casually offing a beloved, classic Spidey villain with decades of continuity to back him up, and prompted cries for Doc Ock's resurrection and Kaine's axing. Basically, Kaine managed to become a ReplacementScrappy for a character whose role he wasn't even taking over. Thankfully, Dr. Octopus was later resurrected, and Kaine performed a HeelFaceTurn, [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap saving him from the scrappy heap]].
heap]] by becoming the second Scarlet Spider, which turned him into an EnsembleDarkHorse.
** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage via a CosmicRetcon that took the form of a DealWithTheDevil, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor Creator/JoeQuesada's daughter. The very same Joe Quesada who had basically just enforced the break up by editorial fiat, by claiming that Peter had to be made a single again arguing that being married made Spider-Man appear "old" and that it expand opportunities for future stories. Mary Jane became a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so did everyone else]]. Reactions were negative, to say the least, as many readers already saw the whole CosmicRetcon as Quesada getting of a overall very well-liked OfficialCouple, simply because he personally disliked it, and to immediately follow up with Peter hitching up with, again, a brand new character ''named after his daughter'', was just adding a generous sprinkling of salt to the wounds and raised several questions about his motives for being so set on breaking up the couple to begin with.
***
with. Also, as pointed out in the Spider-Man WildMassGuessing page, all of her [[InformedAttribute Informed Attributes]] ''come from other love interests'' like Mary Jane, Black Cat, and Deb Whitman. Now people are hoping she'll "be like Gwen Stacy" and die.
***
die. Following the events of ComicBook/SpiderIsland, Peter and Carlie broke up. However, Carlie is not completely out of the picture and remains friends with Mary Jane, as well as serving as Spidey's occasional ally on the police force.
*** ** Carlie's successor as love interest is new character Cindy Moon, alias the heroine Silk and ''also'' a ReplacementScrappy. She is commonly criticized as having many Mary Sue traits, such as having Peter's exact power set, but superior in every aspect but physical strength, and being the star pupil of Ezekiel Sims [[RememberTheNewGuy who was never mentioned in any of his previous appearances]]. Adding to this, there are many fans who dislike the idea of Peter dating a fellow superhuman at all.



*** Toward the end of the series WordOfGod from Dan Slott revealed that [[spoiler: this was wholly intentional; the point of the storyline was to demonstrate how fans take Peter for granted by replacing him with the worst possible substitute. It is ''Peter'', not Otto, who is the "Superior Spider-Man" of the title, as admitted by Otto before he [[RedemptionEqualsDeath voluntarily erases himself]] and gives Peter full control once more]]. The storyline still has some haters, though, mostly due to ArcFatigue, with some fans feeling everything the series accomplished could've been done in a single arc.

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*** Toward the end of the series WordOfGod from Dan Slott revealed that [[spoiler: this was wholly intentional; the point of the storyline was to demonstrate how fans take Peter for granted by replacing him with the worst possible substitute. It is ''Peter'', not Otto, who is the "Superior Spider-Man" of the title, as admitted by Otto before he [[RedemptionEqualsDeath voluntarily erases himself]] and gives Peter full control once more]]. The storyline still has some haters, detractors, though, mostly due to ArcFatigue, with some fans feeling everything the series accomplished could've been done in a single arc.
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** Pre-Flashpoint Superman (Super Dad) becoming a ReplacementScrappy for [=NuSupes=]! While it's ''much'' less common to find people who prefer [=NuSupes=], there are quite a few people who do feel bad for [=NuSupes=]' fans. However, in this case the Super Dad detractors are in the minority, and the overall consensus is that the Rebirth Superman line is the strongest the franchise has been in ''years''. An AuthorsSavingThrow was later attempted with the ''ComicBook/SupermanReborn'' crossover, which explained that ''both'' Supermen were merely parts of the real, whole Superman, validating both as equal parts of Superman... Except when the two fused together, the resulting "complete" Superman is basically Super Dad, but with [=NuSupes=]' dead parents, so it seems like even ''DC's staff themselves'' prefer the pre-Flashpoint Superman.

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** Pre-Flashpoint Superman (Super Dad) becoming a ReplacementScrappy for [=NuSupes=]! While it's ''much'' less common to find people who prefer [=NuSupes=], there are quite a few people who do feel bad for [=NuSupes=]' fans. However, in this case the Super Dad detractors are in the minority, and the overall consensus is that the Rebirth Superman line is the strongest the franchise has been in ''years''. An AuthorsSavingThrow was later attempted with the ''ComicBook/SupermanReborn'' crossover, which explained that ''both'' Supermen were merely parts of the real, whole Superman, validating both as equal parts of Superman... Except that Super Dad was the "blue" half of Superman while [=NuSupes=] was the "red", and in the original stories where Superman was split in two, the blue half is the real one... and when the two fused together, the resulting "complete" Superman is basically Super Dad, but with [=NuSupes=]' dead parents, so it seems like even ''DC's staff themselves'' prefer the pre-Flashpoint Superman.



* Speaking of the Teen Titans, the New 52 series and its team is hated by pretty much all of the Titans fans combined, even the fans of the characters. The team is hated by fans of the original Titans for specifically being the first team to call themselves the Titans, meaning the original team never existed - indeed, only Dick Grayson and Roy Harper initially existed in the New 52. Fans of the team that is the ''basis'' for the New 52 team hate it for the changes it made to their characters, namely making Cassie (more) of an angry asshole, the ''complete'' change to Bart Allen's character and finally going 100% in making Tim Drake a mini-Bruce Wayne in terms of his obsessiveness.

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* Speaking of the Teen Titans, the New 52 series and its team is hated by pretty much all of the Titans fans combined, even the fans of the characters. The team is hated by fans of the original Titans for specifically being the first team to call themselves the Titans, meaning the original team never existed - -- indeed, only Dick Grayson and Roy Harper initially even existed in the New 52. Fans of the team that is the ''basis'' for the New 52 team hate it for the changes it made to their characters, namely making Cassie (more) of an angry asshole, the ''complete'' change to Bart Allen's character and finally going 100% in making Tim Drake a mini-Bruce Wayne in terms of his obsessiveness.
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irrelevant to the entry


*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}[[note]]who was working for Knull to wipe out any person who had a symbiote in their lifetime at this period - when he killed Lee in prison, Carnage was posing as a CassandraTruth-telling Eddie Brock[[/note]]: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

to:

*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}[[note]]who was working for Knull to wipe out any person who had a symbiote in their lifetime at this period - when he killed Lee in prison, Carnage was posing as a CassandraTruth-telling Eddie Brock[[/note]]: to ComicBook/{{Carnage}}. To say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

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not relevant to the entry and just randomly spoils something.


** ''Everyone'' who became ComicBook/{{Venom}} who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of Venom. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. Thankfully averted with Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who is by far one of the two most hated Venom hosts ''by far'' (the other being Angelo). This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote before pulling off a HeroicSacrifice).

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** ''Everyone'' who became ComicBook/{{Venom}} who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. Thompson.
***
When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of Venom. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. ''Siege''.
***
Thankfully averted with his successor Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who is by far one of the two most hated Venom hosts ''by far'' (the other being Angelo). This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - -- casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote before pulling off a HeroicSacrifice).symbiote).
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None


** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of {{ComicBook/Venom}}. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. Thankfully averted with Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote before pulling off a HeroicSacrifice).

to:

** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit became ComicBook/{{Venom}} who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
*** This only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of {{ComicBook/Venom}}.Venom. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. Thankfully averted with Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' is by far one of the two most hated Venom host by far.hosts ''by far'' (the other being Angelo). This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote before pulling off a HeroicSacrifice).
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None


*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

to:

*** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}: ComicBook/{{Carnage}}[[note]]who was working for Knull to wipe out any person who had a symbiote in their lifetime at this period - when he killed Lee in prison, Carnage was posing as a CassandraTruth-telling Eddie Brock[[/note]]: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.
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* Marvel fans are now accusing Marvel of turning ComicBook/TheInhumans into substitute ComicBook/XMen. Originally a small, xenophobic cult of genetically modified humans who gained superpowers through exposure to mystic crystals, recent events have revealed that millions of people around the world have latent Inhuman DNA and are now gaining superpowers as a result of mass exposure to said crystals. Crystals which, incidentally sterilize mutants. Needless to say fans have been less than pleased with these developments, saying Marvel is clumsily attempting to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans as "Superpowered symbol of minorities" because [[ExecutiveMeddling Marvel owns the film rights to the Inhumans but not the X-Men]].

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* Marvel fans are now accusing Marvel of turning ComicBook/TheInhumans into substitute ComicBook/XMen. Originally a small, xenophobic cult of genetically modified humans who gained superpowers through exposure to mystic crystals, recent events have revealed that millions of people around the world have latent Inhuman DNA and are now gaining superpowers as a result of mass exposure to said crystals. Crystals which, incidentally sterilize mutants. Needless to say fans have been less than pleased with these developments, saying Marvel is clumsily attempting to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans as "Superpowered symbol of minorities" because [[ExecutiveMeddling Marvel owns the film rights to the Inhumans but not the X-Men]]. Tellingly, when Disney bought out Creator/TwentiethCenturyFox in 2019, and thus Marvel gained their film rights, the X-Men were A-list again and the Inhumans were placed on the backburner.
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** [[spoiler: Jane Foster]] once again came back from vengeace this time replacing [[spoiler: Brunnhilde as the new ComicBook/{{Valkyrie|MarvelComics}} and also the new All-Mother replacing Freyja after Marvel announced a new solo series but with Brunnhilde not starring in said solo series after Jason Aaron decided to unceremoniously killed her off not just Brunnhilde but the entire Valkirye race in ''ComicBook/WarOfTheRealms'' for the sake giving Jane another book which fans got angry for this decision and they're waiting if Jane will step down when Brunnhilde returns for the dead.]]

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** [[spoiler: Jane Foster]] once again came back from vengeace with vengeance this time now replacing [[spoiler: Brunnhilde as the new ComicBook/{{Valkyrie|MarvelComics}} moving foward and also becoming the new All-Mother of Asgard replacing Freyja after she abdicate the throne. When Marvel announced a new solo series but with Brunnhilde not starring in said solo series it after Jason Aaron decided to unceremoniously killed her off not just Brunnhilde but the entire Valkirye race in ''ComicBook/WarOfTheRealms'' for the sake giving Jane another book which fans got angry for this decision and they're waiting if Jane will step down when Brunnhilde returns for the dead.]]
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** [[spoiler: Jane Foster]] once again came back from vengeace this time replacing [[spoiler: Brunnhilde as the new ComicBook/{{Valkyrie|MarvelComics}} and also the new All-Mother replacing Freyja after Marvel announced a new solo series but with Brunnhilde not starring in said solo series after Jason Aaron decided to unceremoniously killed her off not just Brunnhilde but the entire Valkirye race in ''ComicBook/WarOfTheRealms'' for the sake giving Jane another book which fans got angry for this decision and they're waiting if Jane will step down when Brunnhilde returns for the dead.]]
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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{DoctorDoom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.

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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{DoctorDoom}}.ComicBook/{{Doctor Doom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win over some girls]] and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{DoctorDoom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.

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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win over him some girls]] [[WellDoneSonGuy and his dad's approval]], and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{DoctorDoom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much nothing apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall.

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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much nothing ''nothing'', apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall. He had taken the symbiote solely out of a cocky desire [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys to win over some girls]] and to be seen as one of the hot baddies of Marvel alongside ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and ComicBook/{{DoctorDoom}}. Even ''the Venom symbiote itself'' drops out and leaves Angelo to fall to his death, simply because he was that pathetic and nowhere near as sufficient as Eddie Brock was.
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** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

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** *** But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, he managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the story arc ''Venom Inc.'', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans from the character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

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*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'': but once he was defeated by the arc's end, and to celebrate Free Comic Book Day, he was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}, fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.

to:

*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. now, much to the excitement for Eddie-Venom fans, but to the chagrin of Flash-Venom fans (until he got a copy of the Anti-Venom symbiote before pulling off a HeroicSacrifice).
**
But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist managed to end up being a replacement scrappy for ''two characters''. For the next Venom arc: story arc ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken '', Lee took the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, character yet again]], further alienating Agent Venom fans began to hate him ''much more'': but once he was defeated by from the arc's end, and to character. To celebrate Free Comic Book Day, he Lee was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ComicBook/{{Carnage}}, ComicBook/{{Carnage}}: to say the least, ''all'' Venom fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter as he is, significantly more than previously.
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*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'', until finally by the end of the arc, Lee was disposed of, and to celebrate Free Comic Book Day, he was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then killed by ''ComicBook/Carnage'' - a BaseBreakingCharacter who no doubt won over some fans for this action.

to:

*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'', until finally more'': but once he was defeated by the end of the arc, Lee was disposed of, arc's end, and to celebrate Free Comic Book Day, he was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then ''finally'' killed by ''ComicBook/Carnage'' - a ComicBook/{{Carnage}}, fans not only reveled in Lee's death, but some had grown to appreciate Carnage, BaseBreakingCharacter who no doubt won over some fans for this action.as he is, significantly more than previously.
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*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'', until finally by the end of the arc, Lee was disposed of and hasn't been heard from again since.

to:

*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'', until finally by the end of the arc, Lee was disposed of of, and hasn't been heard from again since.to celebrate Free Comic Book Day, he was unceremoniously stripped of the Mania symbiote and then killed by ''ComicBook/Carnage'' - a BaseBreakingCharacter who no doubt won over some fans for this action.

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** This was the reaction when Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of {{ComicBook/Venom}} from Eddie Brock. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. Thankfully averted with Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite.

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** ''Everyone'' who acquired the Venom suit who isn't Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson. When Eddie sold the symbiote in an auction after he found out it was changing him for the worse, Angelo Fortunato won the symbiote and did pretty much nothing apart from wreaking senseless havoc for four issues and then die. Even the fans who ''did'' know about Angelo see him as no one who matters, and a total waste overall.
***
This was the reaction when only got worse once Mac Gargan (formerly the Scorpion) took over the identity of {{ComicBook/Venom}} from Eddie Brock.{{ComicBook/Venom}}. Not only was he the antithesis of everything Brock stood for (didn't bother protecting innocents, gave in to the symbiote's violent urges rather than controlling them, was completely selfish) but him getting the symbiote was just a blatant poor attempt to end the massive VillainDecay Gargan had gone through as Scorpion. However in the words of one reviewer; "a loser in a Venom suit is still a fucking loser". Nobody liked it and he ended up losing the symbiote after ''Dark Reign'' and ''Siege''. Thankfully averted with Flash Thompson as Venom. Many consider him to be a great character in his own right and he's become a big fan-favorite. However...
*** After losing the symbiote anti-climatically, Flash had lost the Venom identity to Lee Price, who may very well be ''the'' most hated Venom host by far. This is because Lee was intentionally designed to be a HateSink - casually abusing the symbiote and, much like Gargan, is entirely selfish and is more focused on murdering innocents rather than protect them. However, unlike Gargan, Lee was only a recently-introduced character much like Angelo Fortunato, and is just some shallow misanthrope with no other personality traits as opposed to Gargan's more lovably-scummy, dark DeadpanSnarker personality. This is very fortunately ended once Eddie Brock finally got back the Venom symbiote, and remains with it now. But just when it seems like Lee would be written out entirely, Marvel announced that he will be an antagonist for the next Venom arc: ''Venom Inc.''. Fans had hoped that he would be better developed, but then it was revealed that he had taken the Mania symbiote as his own, thus phasing out a beloved EnsembleDarkhorse to [[CharacterShilling shill out a despised character.]] Then, fans began to hate him ''much more'', until finally by the end of the arc, Lee was disposed of and hasn't been heard from again since.
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** At the beginning of the ''Comicbook/New52'' Wally didn't even ''exist'', and the role of the first Kid Flash was given to the second Kid Flash Bart Allen. Later on, they brought Wally back with some ''very'' controversial changes to his character. This Wally was pretty firmly disliked by classic Wally fans for his increased Jerkass tendencies, stereotypical portrayal, changes to Wally's relationships (he isn't close to his aunt Iris anymore, comes from a broken family, and outright hates the Flash) to... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement other things]]. DC later brought back the original Wally in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' while keeping New 52 Wally around as the classic version's cousin, and this had the added benefit of classic Wally fans giving Wally West II another chance now that he wasn't supposed to be their Wally anymore. Plus, the more controversial parts of his character had been heavily reined in by then.

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** At the beginning of the ''Comicbook/New52'' Wally didn't even ''exist'', and the role of the first Kid Flash was given to the second Kid Flash Bart Allen. Later on, they brought Wally back with some ''very'' controversial changes to his character. This Wally was pretty firmly disliked by classic Wally fans for his increased Jerkass tendencies, stereotypical portrayal, changes to Wally's relationships (he isn't close to his aunt Iris anymore, comes from a broken family, and outright hates the Flash) to... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment other things]]. DC later brought back the original Wally in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' while keeping New 52 Wally around as the classic version's cousin, and this had the added benefit of classic Wally fans giving Wally West II another chance now that he wasn't supposed to be their Wally anymore. Plus, the more controversial parts of his character had been heavily reined in by then.



** Not like it didn't happen out of universe as well, however he's more of BaseBreakingCharacter then purely hated. Some feel he's a very good character and the only good thing the Ultimate Universe has left and other think he's Peter Parker light with nothing really interesting about him. While the character has garnered fans since his introduction, the move is still debated - [[spoiler:even after Ultimate Peter Parker's resurrection]]. And then the race thing comes up [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment but let's not get into that.]]

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** Not like it didn't happen out of universe as well, however he's more of BaseBreakingCharacter then purely hated. Some feel he's a very good character and the only good thing the Ultimate Universe has left and other think he's Peter Parker light with nothing really interesting about him. While the character has garnered fans since his introduction, the move is still debated - [[spoiler:even after Ultimate Peter Parker's resurrection]]. And then the race thing comes up [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment but let's not get into that.]]
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** Damian Wayne (Robin V) for Tim Drake (Robin III). When Damian was introduced, he did some very bad stuff, like beheading a B-list villain and almost killing Tim. While Bruce didn't approve, many people feel he got off too lightly just because he's Bruce's biological son. He didn't officially take up the identity of Robin until after Bryce's "death", when Dick Grayson unceremoniously fired Tim from the role to make way for Damian. Tim would go on to be called Red Robin, a name not liked by many of his fans, and don two ugly-ass costumes. Tim was restricted to his solo series, which was considered pretty mediocre and furthered his "Batman Jr." {{Flanderization}}, while Damian got to appear in multiple well-received series. While this Rescued Damian from the Scrappy Heap, it also caused some resentment from Tim fans. Later on, after the New 52, Tim would only regularly appear in the much loathed ''Teen Titans'' ongoing, while Damian was featured in ''Batman and Robin'', where he got away with more things no other Robin could get away with. However that series is still incredibly well-liked, as is Damian as a whole, especially for his relationships with Bruce and Dick. Basically, many Tim Drake fans still hate Damian for getting such a large push from DC at Tim's expense, up to and including Tim's place in the Batfamily. ''Jason'' fans hate him for a perceived double standard in terms of how he's treated in-universe by Bruce and Dick.

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** Damian Wayne (Robin V) for Tim Drake (Robin (ComicBook/{{Robin|Series}} III). When Damian was introduced, he did some very bad stuff, like beheading a B-list villain and almost killing trying to murder Tim. While Bruce didn't approve, many people feel he got off too lightly just because he's Bruce's biological son. He didn't officially take up the identity of Robin until after Bryce's Bruce's "death", when Dick Grayson unceremoniously fired Tim from the role to make way for Damian. Tim would go on to be called Red Robin, a name not liked by many of his fans, and don two ugly-ass costumes. Tim was restricted to his solo series, which was considered pretty mediocre and furthered his "Batman Jr." {{Flanderization}}, while Damian got to appear in multiple well-received series. While this Rescued Damian from the Scrappy Heap, it also caused some resentment from Tim fans. Later on, after the New 52, Tim would only regularly appear in the much loathed ''Teen Titans'' ongoing, while Damian was featured in ''Batman and Robin'', where he got away with more things no other Robin could get away with. However that series is still incredibly well-liked, as is Damian as a whole, especially for his relationships with Bruce and Dick. Basically, many Tim Drake fans still hate Damian for getting such a large push from DC at Tim's expense, up to and including Tim's place in the Batfamily. ''Jason'' fans hate him for a perceived double standard in terms of how he's treated in-universe by Bruce and Dick.

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* ''ComicBook/{{Robin}}:

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* ''ComicBook/{{Robin}}:''ComicBook/{{Robin}}'':


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* Robinson's run on ''ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth'' introduced Diana's twin Jason, the problems being that this cements the controversial change to Diana's backstory where Zeus is now her father and the source of all her powers ''and'' that Diana already had a twin, the underused fan favorite Nubia who seems to have been jettisoned from continuity to make place for Jason. It doesn't help that at her core Diana had always been intended to show what the pinnacle of what women could be if not for being oppressed and influenced by men and now her backstory and abilities are tied to two fan disliked male characters. Jason is also accused of being part of a SpotlightStealingSquad with Grail and Darkseid.
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* Quite a number of ComicBook/{{Cable}} fans hate Kid Cable, the younger version of Cable introduced during ''ComicBook/Extermination2018''. The character was introduced by having him kill the older Cable, and is young enough that he's been called a teenager in-universe, when a big part of Cable's appeal is that he's a grizzled old soldier. Not helping is how this younger Cable outright says that Cable "got old" before killing him and repeatedly exclaims that he himself ''is'' Cable. Many are counting down the days until the adult Cable returns and Kid Cable leaves, to either grow up into his adult self or die.
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** Poor [[CloningBlues Ben Reilly]] who was disliked because of the revelation that he was the "real Peter Parker" and that the Peter fans had been reading for twenty years was really a clone. After the huge fan outrage Marvel quickly backtracked and reversed that decision.

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** Poor [[CloningBlues Ben Reilly]] who was disliked because of the revelation that he was the "real Peter Parker" and that the Peter fans had been reading for twenty years was really a clone. After the huge fan outrage Marvel quickly backtracked and reversed that decision. But what plenty of readers actually ''did'' like, however, was how Ben acted as sort of a brother figure to Peter, and felt that his slightly more rough-edged personality made for great character interaction between the two, and Ben has since remained somewhat of a fan favorite for those reasons.
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** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor Creator/JoeQuesada's daughter. Mary Jane has become a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so has everyone else]]. Reactions have been negative, to say the least.

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** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage, marriage via a CosmicRetcon that took the form of a DealWithTheDevil, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor Creator/JoeQuesada's daughter. The very same Joe Quesada who had basically just enforced the break up by editorial fiat, by claiming that Peter had to be made a single again arguing that being married made Spider-Man appear "old" and that it expand opportunities for future stories. Mary Jane has become became a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so has did everyone else]]. Reactions have been were negative, to say the least.least, as many readers already saw the whole CosmicRetcon as Quesada getting of a overall very well-liked OfficialCouple, simply because he personally disliked it, and to immediately follow up with Peter hitching up with, again, a brand new character ''named after his daughter'', was just adding a generous sprinkling of salt to the wounds and raised several questions about his motives for being so set on breaking up the couple to begin with.
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** Jason Todd as the second Robin. Originally a carbon-copy of Robin I, Dick Grayson, he was [[CosmicRetcon ret-conned]] into having a [[StreetUrchin street urchin]] origin and no longer having Dick's approval. He was also written as much angrier and prone to lashing out, including one story where it was left vague whether he ''outright murdered'' someone or not (after his resurrection, it was revealed that, yes, he murdered the person). This led to the second Robin becoming so controversial that DC had a ''call-in vote'' to see if fans wanted Jason to [[ADeathInTheFamily die a gruesome death at the hands of the Joker.]] Ultimately, Jason's hatedom won by a narrow margin, and Jason Todd was [[DeadSidekick dead]] for two decades.

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** Jason Todd as the second Robin. Originally a carbon-copy of Robin I, Dick Grayson, he was [[CosmicRetcon ret-conned]] into having a [[StreetUrchin street urchin]] origin and no longer having Dick's approval. He was also written as much angrier and prone to lashing out, including one story where it was left vague whether he ''outright murdered'' someone or not (after his resurrection, it was revealed that, yes, he murdered the person). This led to the second Robin becoming so controversial that DC had a ''call-in vote'' to see if fans wanted Jason to [[ADeathInTheFamily [[ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily die a gruesome death at the hands of the Joker.]] Ultimately, Jason's hatedom won by a narrow margin, and Jason Todd was [[DeadSidekick dead]] for two decades.
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Did not really state audeinces actual reaction.


* ComicBook/TheSandman: When [[spoiler:Daniel replaces Morpheus near the end]], this reaction is inevitable and instinctive for readers and characters alike. [[spoiler:The shock is gently muted as the final arc deals with the other characters - notably the raven, Matthew - coming to terms with the replacement. This openness, combined with Daniel's dignified humility and the knowledge that he had been carefully hand-picked by his predecessor,]] helps the reader to accept him.
** It probably helps that the series ends at this point, [[spoiler:since one of Daniel's ''positive'' qualities is the absence of some of the original character's [[TrueArtIsAngsty inner turmoil]]. He is an easier character to like, and we never really see him in action enough to compare how he drives the plot.]]
** It's much easier to accept if you came to the series after its completion and know that it is essentially about [[spoiler:the downfall of Morpheus.]]
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** Pre-Flashpoint Superman (Super Dad) becoming a ReplacementScrappy for [=NuSupes=]! While it's ''much'' less common to find people who prefer [=NuSupes=], there are quite a few people who do feel bad for [=NuSupes=]' fans. However, in this case the Super Dad detractors are in the minority, and the overall consensus is that the Rebirth Superman line is the strongest the franchise has been in ''years''.

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** Pre-Flashpoint Superman (Super Dad) becoming a ReplacementScrappy for [=NuSupes=]! While it's ''much'' less common to find people who prefer [=NuSupes=], there are quite a few people who do feel bad for [=NuSupes=]' fans. However, in this case the Super Dad detractors are in the minority, and the overall consensus is that the Rebirth Superman line is the strongest the franchise has been in ''years''. An AuthorsSavingThrow was later attempted with the ''ComicBook/SupermanReborn'' crossover, which explained that ''both'' Supermen were merely parts of the real, whole Superman, validating both as equal parts of Superman... Except when the two fused together, the resulting "complete" Superman is basically Super Dad, but with [=NuSupes=]' dead parents, so it seems like even ''DC's staff themselves'' prefer the pre-Flashpoint Superman.
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*** Adding to this, when Barry came back, Wally was suddenly demoted thanks to ExecutiveMeddling and Barry was given a grimmer backstory and proceeded to engage in a number of controversial moves (culminating in rebooting the entire universe, leading to the controversial ''New 52'', which among other things, ''erased Wally and his family from existence'', along with having the extended Flash family PutOnTheBus), greatly damaging his previous innocent NiceGuy image. Furthering matters, the New 52, several animated features, and the 2014 TV series all focused on a Barry Allen who took a ''lot'' from Wally, including his role in many stories, which didn't necessarily work as well with Barry thanks to their differing core characters, with Wally himself being either erased completely or demoted and poorly used. When compared to how Barry was treated during Wally's tenure (where Barry and his memory were treated with nothing but glowing respect and idealisation, with Barry's tenure being a ''very'' important influence on Wally), the way DC tried to strip Wally completely from its history and his legacy made a ''lot'' of his fans extremely bitter.
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* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), and some people liked the character from the beginning. So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained ''some'' support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever, a run which also ended up featuring Guy, John and Kyle in a large capacity. Of course, this run has ''also'' been criticised for CharacterShilling for Hal Jordan.

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* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), and some people liked the character from the beginning. So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained ''some'' support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever, a run which also ended up featuring Guy, John and Kyle in a large capacity. Of course, this run has ''also'' been criticised for CharacterShilling for Hal Jordan.capacity.



** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a short while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -- who were fans of original Supergirl -- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular again, although still considered a replacement scrappy.

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** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a short while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -- who were fans of original Supergirl -- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular again, although still considered a replacement scrappy.again.

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