History ReplacementScrappy / ComicBooks

5th Oct '17 6:58:15 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** Speaking of Bart, the New 52 massively overhauled his character. Scott Lobdell made sweeping changes to his character in his reviled ''Teen Titans'' run, changing the FunPersonified, light-hearted Bart Allen character into a murderous, edgy rebel from the future whose characterisation flipped on a dime (this was all under one writer no less). Even more, he has ''zero'' connection to the Flashes, as his name isn't even Bart Allen (it's Bar Torr) and he doesn't even use the Speed Force. This character is reviled and ''Flash'' and ''Young Justice'' fans are ''still'' hoping the real Bart will show up eventually.

to:

** Speaking of Bart, the New 52 massively overhauled his character. Scott Lobdell made sweeping changes to his character in his reviled ''Teen Titans'' run, changing the FunPersonified, light-hearted Bart Allen character into a murderous, edgy rebel from the future whose characterisation flipped on a dime (this was all under one writer no less). less, so it's not a case of DependingOnTheWriter). Even more, worse, he has ''zero'' connection to the Flashes, as his name isn't even Bart Allen (it's Bar Torr) and he doesn't even use the Speed Force. This character is reviled ''reviled'' and ''Flash'' and ''Young Justice'' fans are ''still'' hoping the real Bart will show up eventually.



* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), and some people liked the character from the beginning. So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever, a run which also ended up featuring Guy, John and Kyle in a large capacity. Of course, this run has ''also'' been criticised for CharacterShilling for Hal Jordan.
* ''ComicBook/HawkAndDove'': Holly Granger (as the third person to bear the title of "Hawk") also got this reception by fans, though it didn't help matters that [[DependingOnTheWriter writers had no clue what kind of personality she had]], or bothered to flesh out a personality or backstory for her to begin with. Being retconned in as "only child" Dawn Granger's sister and an usurper of Hank Hall's Hawk powers only rubbed the salt in further for her hatedom. They rejoiced as Hank Hall was eventually brought back to life while Holly was killed off, and she appears to no longer exist at all in the New 52 continuity.

to:

* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), and some people liked the character from the beginning. So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained ''some'' support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever, a run which also ended up featuring Guy, John and Kyle in a large capacity. Of course, this run has ''also'' been criticised for CharacterShilling for Hal Jordan.
* ''ComicBook/HawkAndDove'': ''ComicBook/HawkAndDove''
**
Holly Granger (as the third person to bear the title of "Hawk") also got this reception by fans, though it didn't help matters that [[DependingOnTheWriter writers had no clue what kind of personality she had]], or bothered to flesh out a personality or backstory for her to begin with. Being retconned in as "only child" Dawn Granger's sister and an usurper of Hank Hall's Hawk powers only rubbed the salt in further for her hatedom. They rejoiced as Hank Hall was eventually brought back to life while Holly was killed off, and she appears to no longer exist at all in the New 52 continuity.



* Jason Todd as the second Robin. Originally a carbon-copy of Robin I, Dick Grayson, he was [[CosmicRetcon ret-conned]] into having a [[StreetUrchin street urchin]] origin and no longer having Dick's approval. This led to the second Robin becoming so controversial that DC had a ''call-in vote'' to see if fans wanted Jason to [[ADeathInTheFamily die a gruesome death at the hands of the Joker.]] Ultimately, Jason's hatedom won by a narrow margin, and Jason Todd was [[DeadSidekick dead]] for two decades.
** Damian Wayne (Robin IV) for Tim Drake (Robin III). When Damian was introduced, he did some very bad stuff, like beheading a B-list villain and almost killing Tim. While Bruce didn't approve, many people feel he got off too lightly just because he's Bruce's biological son. He didn't officially take up the identity of Robin until after the "death" of Bruce Wayne, when Dick Grayson unceremoniously fired Tim from the role to allow for Damian. Tim would go on to be called Red Robin, a name not liked by many of his fans, and don two ugly-ass costumes. Tim was restricted to his solo series, which was considered pretty mediocre and furthered his "Batman Jr." {{Flanderization}}, while Damian got to appear in multiple well-received series. While this Rescued Damian from the Scrappy Heap, it also caused some resentment from Tim fans. Later on, after the New 52, Tim would only regularly appear in the much loathed ''Teen Titans'' ongoing, while Damian was featured in ''Batman and Robin'', where he got away with more things no other Robin could get away with. However that series is still incredibly well-liked, as is Damian as a whole, especially for his relationships with Bruce and Dick. Basically, many Tim Drake fans still hate Damian for getting such a large push from DC at Tim's expense, up to and including tim's place in the Batfamily.
* [[ComicBook/TeenTitans The Joker's Daughter]] wasn't universally loved, but she gained a small, devoted fanbase. That said, the fans of this Duela Dent absolutely hated the new Joker's Daughter created for the New 52. Original Duela's fans saw her as a cheap, unnecessarily edgy knock off with a convoluted backstory, lacking the original Duela's humor and style, and grew to hate her more and more with every appearance she made because of how hard DC was shoehorning her into their books. What sunk this version from the beginning was that she literally had no connection to the Joker whatsoever, and was just some random, mentally unbalanced woman who found the Joker's face and started wearing it like a mask in an effort to make her "father" happy.
** [[WordOfGod The creator of Duela Dent]] has said ComicBook/HarleyQuinn is basically the SpiritualSuccessor to everything lovable about the original anyway. A rare case of the replacement being created completely independently, still filling their niche, and being far more popular than the original ever was.

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* ''ComicBook/{{Robin}}:
**
Jason Todd as the second Robin. Originally a carbon-copy of Robin I, Dick Grayson, he was [[CosmicRetcon ret-conned]] into having a [[StreetUrchin street urchin]] origin and no longer having Dick's approval. He was also written as much angrier and prone to lashing out, including one story where it was left vague whether he ''outright murdered'' someone or not (after his resurrection, it was revealed that, yes, he murdered the person). This led to the second Robin becoming so controversial that DC had a ''call-in vote'' to see if fans wanted Jason to [[ADeathInTheFamily die a gruesome death at the hands of the Joker.]] Ultimately, Jason's hatedom won by a narrow margin, and Jason Todd was [[DeadSidekick dead]] for two decades.
** Damian Wayne (Robin IV) V) for Tim Drake (Robin III). When Damian was introduced, he did some very bad stuff, like beheading a B-list villain and almost killing Tim. While Bruce didn't approve, many people feel he got off too lightly just because he's Bruce's biological son. He didn't officially take up the identity of Robin until after the "death" of Bruce Wayne, Bryce's "death", when Dick Grayson unceremoniously fired Tim from the role to allow make way for Damian. Tim would go on to be called Red Robin, a name not liked by many of his fans, and don two ugly-ass costumes. Tim was restricted to his solo series, which was considered pretty mediocre and furthered his "Batman Jr." {{Flanderization}}, while Damian got to appear in multiple well-received series. While this Rescued Damian from the Scrappy Heap, it also caused some resentment from Tim fans. Later on, after the New 52, Tim would only regularly appear in the much loathed ''Teen Titans'' ongoing, while Damian was featured in ''Batman and Robin'', where he got away with more things no other Robin could get away with. However that series is still incredibly well-liked, as is Damian as a whole, especially for his relationships with Bruce and Dick. Basically, many Tim Drake fans still hate Damian for getting such a large push from DC at Tim's expense, up to and including tim's Tim's place in the Batfamily.
Batfamily. ''Jason'' fans hate him for a perceived double standard in terms of how he's treated in-universe by Bruce and Dick.
* [[ComicBook/TeenTitans The Joker's Daughter]] wasn't universally loved, but she gained a small, devoted fanbase. That said, the fans of this Duela Dent absolutely hated the new Joker's Daughter created for the New 52. Original Duela's fans saw her as a cheap, unnecessarily edgy knock off with a convoluted backstory, lacking the original Duela's humor and style, and grew to hate her more and more with every appearance she made because of how hard DC was shoehorning her into their books. What sunk this version from the beginning was that she literally had no connection to the Joker whatsoever, and was just some random, mentally unbalanced woman who found the Joker's face and started wearing it like a mask in an effort to make her "father" happy. \n** [[WordOfGod The creator of Duela Dent]] has said ComicBook/HarleyQuinn is basically the SpiritualSuccessor to everything lovable about the original anyway. A rare case of the replacement being created completely independently, still filling their niche, and being far more popular than the original ever was.



** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a short while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -who were fans of original Supergirl- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular again.

to:

** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a short while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -who -- who were fans of original Supergirl- Supergirl -- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular again.again, although still considered a replacement scrappy.



* Franchise/{{Superman}} had an interesting case with the New 52. Many, ''many'' people disliked the New 52 Superman ([[FanNickname NuSupes]]) for being much angrier and jerkier than his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart, gaining a strange solar flare power that seemed to exist only to depower him every other week, along with issues with him dating Franchise/WonderWoman rather than ComicBook/LoisLane. While he gained some fans eventually, he also lost some with the ComicBook/SupermanTruth storyline, which had him return to being a Jerkass while also giving him an uglier costume and haircut. It didn't help that, by that point, the Pre-Flashpoint Superman had migrated over to the New 52 universe with his Lois Lane and their son, and said Superman was considered ''much'' more interesting. In the end, DC pulled the trigger and killed the New 52 Superman right before the ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' initiative, which led to...

to:

* Franchise/{{Superman}} ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'':
** Superman
had an interesting case with the New 52. Many, ''many'' people disliked the New 52 Superman ([[FanNickname NuSupes]]) for being much angrier and jerkier than his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart, gaining a strange solar flare power that seemed to exist only to depower him every other week, along with issues with him dating Franchise/WonderWoman rather than ComicBook/LoisLane. While he gained some fans eventually, he also lost some with the ComicBook/SupermanTruth storyline, which had him return to being a Jerkass while also giving him an uglier costume and haircut. It didn't help that, by that point, the Pre-Flashpoint Superman had migrated over to the New 52 universe with his Lois Lane and their son, and said Superman was considered ''much'' more interesting. In the end, DC pulled the trigger and killed the New 52 Superman right before the ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' initiative, which led to...



* The second ComicBook/WonderGirl (Cassandra Sandsmark) is hated by some of the more diehard Donna Troy fans. Some even wish that she weren't a "blonde, white girl" so that [[FanDumb she would be killed off easier for Donna to go back to the role]]. This is especially irritating since in the 90s, Cassandra was a much more friendly, likable character than the Scrappy people see now. Further made worse for Donna's fans in the New 52 continuity, where Cassie's new connection to Wonder Woman[[note]]Cassie is Diana's niece, the daughter of Diana's half-brother Lennox[[/note]] hasn't been revealed in-universe despite the relaunch occurring in September of 2011. And like Wally West, Cassie is now the first Wonder Girl, and Donna wasn't introduced until 2015, where she is now a darker, angrier reflection of Wonder Woman, a role ''Cassie already fills''.

to:

* The second ComicBook/WonderGirl (Cassandra Sandsmark) is hated by some of the more diehard Donna Troy fans. Some even wish that she weren't a "blonde, white girl" so that [[FanDumb she would be more likely to be killed off easier for so Donna to go back could return to the role]]. This is especially irritating since in the 90s, Cassandra was a much more friendly, likable character than the Scrappy people see now. Further made worse for Donna's fans in the New 52 continuity, where Cassie's new connection to Wonder Woman[[note]]Cassie is Diana's niece, the daughter of Diana's half-brother Lennox[[/note]] hasn't been wasn't even revealed in-universe despite for ''years'', and Cassie herself openly expressed disdain for the relaunch occurring in September of 2011.name. And like Wally West, Cassie is now the first Wonder Girl, and Donna wasn't introduced until 2015, where she is now a darker, angrier reflection of Wonder Woman, a role ''Cassie already fills''.
18th Sep '17 11:24:31 PM FuzzyBarbarian
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* Jason Rusch (ComicBook/{{Firestorm}}) for Ronnie Raymond, since Ronnie was unceremoniously killed off to make way for Rusch. The New 52 continuity not only retconned the death of Ronnie Raymond (the first Firestorm who was killed to make way for Jason) but now made it possible for both he and Jason to become Firestorm at the same time, alleviating some of the tension between the characters' respective fanbases.
* Franchise/TheFlash has had issues with this. At the end of ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'', Barry Allen made a HeroicSacrifice, and Wally West, then [[KidSidekick Kid Flash]], became the Flash. Wally was not well received at first, whether due to his being young, a {{Jerkass}}, or the fact that he was less powerful (he lost a lot of his speed during the Crisis and didn't get it back for years.) While Wally grew into the role and gained acceptance, Barry kept appearing in one-off stories set in the past, time travel stories and one notable "fake out" event as well as a short lived TV series keeping his fandom alive. When Barry came back after 24 years of being dead, fans were split.

to:

* Jason Rusch (ComicBook/{{Firestorm}}) for Ronnie Raymond, since Ronnie was unceremoniously killed off to make way for Rusch. The New 52 continuity not only retconned the death of Ronnie Raymond (the first Firestorm who was killed to make way for Jason) but now made it possible for both he and Jason to become Firestorm at the same time, alleviating some of the tension between the characters' respective fanbases.
* Franchise/TheFlash has had issues with this. this.
**
At the end of ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'', Barry Allen made a HeroicSacrifice, and Wally West, then [[KidSidekick Kid Flash]], became the Flash. Wally was not well received at first, whether due to his being young, a {{Jerkass}}, or the fact that he was less powerful (he lost a lot of his speed during the Crisis and didn't get it back for years.) While Wally grew into the role and gained acceptance, Barry kept appearing in one-off stories set in the past, time travel stories and one notable "fake out" event as well as a short lived TV series keeping his fandom alive. When Barry came back after 24 years of being dead, fans were split.



* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character). So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever.

to:

** Speaking of Bart, the New 52 massively overhauled his character. Scott Lobdell made sweeping changes to his character in his reviled ''Teen Titans'' run, changing the FunPersonified, light-hearted Bart Allen character into a murderous, edgy rebel from the future whose characterisation flipped on a dime (this was all under one writer no less). Even more, he has ''zero'' connection to the Flashes, as his name isn't even Bart Allen (it's Bar Torr) and he doesn't even use the Speed Force. This character is reviled and ''Flash'' and ''Young Justice'' fans are ''still'' hoping the real Bart will show up eventually.
* Jason Rusch (ComicBook/{{Firestorm}}) for Ronnie Raymond, since Ronnie was unceremoniously killed off to make way for Rusch. The New 52 continuity not only retconned the death of Ronnie Raymond (the first Firestorm who was killed to make way for Jason) but now made it possible for both he and Jason to become Firestorm at the same time, alleviating some of the tension between the characters' respective fanbases.
* Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 10 years later, and many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character).character), and some people liked the character from the beginning. So when fans of Hal Jordan gained control of the title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well. Nevertheless, Hal gained support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever.ever, a run which also ended up featuring Guy, John and Kyle in a large capacity. Of course, this run has ''also'' been criticised for CharacterShilling for Hal Jordan.
10th Sep '17 12:19:51 AM lillolillo
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*** Both Stephanie and Charlotte Gage-Radcliffe (who very briefly tried to be Batgirl and later took on the identity of Misfit) both dealt with this from Oracle when they first attempted to take on the Batgirl mantle, with Oracle even slapping Charlie after she made a disrespectful remark about Cassandra.
** So to boil things down, there are at least three very different characters, who would all have been much more popular with fans if DC hadn't seemed to be obsessed with pitting them against one another as the "real" owner of the identity.



** Like with the Bucky example below, averted entirely when Dick Grayson became Batman. The decision for both Bruce and Dick to act as Batman simultaneously is seen as a welcome third option. Some fans really didn't want him returning to his role of Nightwing.

to:

** Like with the Bucky example below, averted Averted entirely when Dick Grayson became Batman. The decision for both Bruce and Dick to act as Batman simultaneously is seen as a welcome third option. Some fans really didn't want him returning to his role of Nightwing.



** First, there are the new versions of Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Al Pratt, and the rest of the Justice Society characters getting revamped by being made YoungerAndHipper and getting their backstories totally rewritten in an attempt by DC to make them more cooler. Fans of the Golden Age characters and the original Society members were put off by this since they liked the characters ''because'' they were older heroes, as well as the fact that they were more or less unrecognizable to the characters they once more. Many felt these were just the [=JSA=] characters InNameOnly.

to:

** First, there are the new versions of Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Al Pratt, and the rest of the Justice Society ComicBook/JusticeSociety OfAmerica characters getting revamped by being made YoungerAndHipper and getting their backstories totally rewritten in an attempt by DC to make them more cooler. Fans of the Golden Age characters and the original Society members were put off by this since they liked the characters ''because'' they were older heroes, as well as the fact that they were more or less unrecognizable to the characters they once more. Many felt these were just the [=JSA=] characters InNameOnly.



* ComicBook/TheFlash has had issues with this very similar to GreenLantern mentioned below. At the end of ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'', Barry Allen made a HeroicSacrifice, and Wally West, then [[KidSidekick Kid Flash]], became the Flash. Wally was not well received at first, whether due to his being young, a {{Jerkass}}, or the fact that he was less powerful (he lost a lot of his speed during the Crisis and didn't get it back for years.) While Wally grew into the role and gained acceptance, Barry kept appearing in one-off stories set in the past, time travel stories and one notable "fake out" event as well as a short lived TV series keeping his fandom alive. When Barry came back after 24 years of being dead, fans are split.

to:

* ComicBook/TheFlash Franchise/TheFlash has had issues with this very similar to GreenLantern mentioned below.this. At the end of ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'', Barry Allen made a HeroicSacrifice, and Wally West, then [[KidSidekick Kid Flash]], became the Flash. Wally was not well received at first, whether due to his being young, a {{Jerkass}}, or the fact that he was less powerful (he lost a lot of his speed during the Crisis and didn't get it back for years.) While Wally grew into the role and gained acceptance, Barry kept appearing in one-off stories set in the past, time travel stories and one notable "fake out" event as well as a short lived TV series keeping his fandom alive. When Barry came back after 24 years of being dead, fans are were split.



*** Barry is getting this more now than ever since in the ComicBook/{{New 52}} Wally was not only never Flash, but never even Kid Flash. For years, he didn't even ''exist'', and the role of the first Kid Flash was given to the second Kid Flash Bart Allen. Even fans that don't like Wally seem to feel that this was a low blow to his fanbase.
** Later on, they brought Wally back with some ''very'' controversial changes to his character. This Wally was pretty firmly disliked by classic Wally fans for his increased Jerkass tendencies, stereotypical portrayal, changes to Wally's relationships (he isn't close to his aunt Iris anymore, comes from a broken family, and outright hates the Flash) to... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement other things]]. DC later brought back the original Wally in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' while keeping New 52 Wally around as the classic version's cousin, and this had the added benefit of classic Wally fans giving Wally West II another chance now that he wasn't supposed to be their Wally anymore. Plus, the more controversial parts of his character had been heavily reined in by then.
* Consider ''ComicBook/GreenLantern''. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 20 years later, and not only have the overwhelming majority of ''ComicBook/GreenLantern'' fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), but in addition, an entire generation of fans had arisen ''after'' Hal Jordan's removal were. These new fans, as can be expected, had very little knowledge of Hal Jordan and his legacy as a Green Lantern, and even more appropriately shouldn't have been expected to even care. So when the old guard hold-out fans of Hal Jordan [[RunningTheAsylum gained control of the title]] and decreed that ''their'' hero would return and the "unwanted interloper", Kyle Rayner, would be reduced to a supporting role, naturally some of them didn't take it very well.
* [[ComicBook/HawkAndDove Holly Granger]] (as the third person to bear the title of "Hawk") also got this reception by fans, though it didn't help matters that [[DependingOnTheWriter writers had no clue what kind of personality she had]], or bothered to flesh out a personality or backstory for her to begin with. Being retconned in as "only child" Dawn Granger's sister and an usurper of Hank Hall's Hawk powers only rubbed the salt in further for her hatedom. They rejoiced as Hank Hall was eventually brought back to life while Holly was killed off, and she appears to no longer exist at all in the New 52 continuity.

to:

*** Barry is getting this more now than ever since in ** At the ComicBook/{{New 52}} beginning of the ''Comicbook/New52'' Wally was not only never Flash, but never even Kid Flash. For years, he didn't even ''exist'', and the role of the first Kid Flash was given to the second Kid Flash Bart Allen. Even fans that don't like Wally seem to feel that this was a low blow to his fanbase.
**
Later on, they brought Wally back with some ''very'' controversial changes to his character. This Wally was pretty firmly disliked by classic Wally fans for his increased Jerkass tendencies, stereotypical portrayal, changes to Wally's relationships (he isn't close to his aunt Iris anymore, comes from a broken family, and outright hates the Flash) to... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement other things]]. DC later brought back the original Wally in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' while keeping New 52 Wally around as the classic version's cousin, and this had the added benefit of classic Wally fans giving Wally West II another chance now that he wasn't supposed to be their Wally anymore. Plus, the more controversial parts of his character had been heavily reined in by then.
* Consider ''ComicBook/GreenLantern''.Franchise/GreenLantern. Stories featuring Hal Jordan, one of the longest-running and most respected heroes in ''Franchise/TheDCU'', just weren't selling that well, and [[ExecutiveMeddling it was decided that a fresher look at the character was needed]] rather than just switching Jordan out for backup Lanterns Guy Gardner or John Stewart. So [[DroppedABridgeOnHim a bridge was dropped on Hal Jordan]] in a way [[DyingToBeReplaced that was not only stupid]], but was [[FaceHeelTurn demeaning to the character and his long history as a hero]] (he eventually got a HeroicSacrifice a few years later). Not only that, but the entire [[TheChosenMany Green Lantern Corps]] was brought down as well. Thus his replacement, Kyle Rayner, wasn't just a ReplacementScrappy for Hal Jordan, but for the entire corps. Cut to almost 20 10 years later, and not only have the overwhelming majority of ''ComicBook/GreenLantern'' many GL fans come around to liking the character (mostly because of Creator/GrantMorrison's deft handling of the character), but in addition, an entire generation of fans had arisen ''after'' Hal Jordan's removal were. These new fans, as can be expected, had very little knowledge of Hal Jordan and his legacy as a Green Lantern, and even more appropriately shouldn't have been expected to even care. character). So when the old guard hold-out fans of Hal Jordan [[RunningTheAsylum gained control of the title]] title and decreed that ''their'' hero would return and the "unwanted interloper", Kyle Rayner, would be reduced to a supporting role, return, naturally some of them didn't take it very well.
well. Nevertheless, Hal gained support after starring in one of the most beloved and influential GL runs ever.
* [[ComicBook/HawkAndDove ''ComicBook/HawkAndDove'': Holly Granger]] Granger (as the third person to bear the title of "Hawk") also got this reception by fans, though it didn't help matters that [[DependingOnTheWriter writers had no clue what kind of personality she had]], or bothered to flesh out a personality or backstory for her to begin with. Being retconned in as "only child" Dawn Granger's sister and an usurper of Hank Hall's Hawk powers only rubbed the salt in further for her hatedom. They rejoiced as Hank Hall was eventually brought back to life while Holly was killed off, and she appears to no longer exist at all in the New 52 continuity.



** Her popularity decreased and Creator/PeterDavid was allowed to completely revamp the character in his own run on Supergirl. His Supergirl was actually [[OurAngelsAreDifferent an angel]], created when the Matrix Supergirl fused with a human named Linda Danvers. His run, while making [[MythologyGag a number of references to the original Supergirl]], touched on religious and supernatural themes. It was seen by many as a departure from the original character and the Superman mythos. Peter David finished the series with an arc that reintroduced the original Supergirl with the hope of turning it into a new series. Unfortunately it didn't happen and Linda was PutOnABus.

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** Her popularity decreased and Creator/PeterDavid was allowed to completely revamp the character in his own run on Supergirl. His Supergirl was actually [[OurAngelsAreDifferent an angel]], created when the Matrix Supergirl fused with a human named Linda Danvers. His run, while making [[MythologyGag a number of references to the original Supergirl]], touched on religious and supernatural themes. It was seen by many as a departure from the original character and the Superman mythos. Peter David finished the series with ''[[ComicBook/ManyHappyReturns an arc arc]]'' that reintroduced the original Supergirl with the hope of turning it into a new series. Unfortunately it didn't happen and Linda was PutOnABus.



** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created supposedly just to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -who were fans of original Supergirl- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular.

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** And finally a new version of the original Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, was created supposedly just to get rid of the [[ContinuitySnarl confusing origins]] of the previous Supergirls once the LegacyImplosion policy was overturned. Although her initial appearances were promising (except for people who were upset with Linda's disappearance), she garnished significant hatred for being both DarkerAndEdgier and MsFanservice for a short while. Several {{Authors Saving Throw}}s by writers Tony Bedard and Sterling Gates -who were fans of original Supergirl- finally softened her character and clarified her history, and she became popular.popular again.



* Superman had an interesting case with the New 52. Many, ''many'' people disliked the New 52 Superman ([[FanNickname NuSupes]]) for being much angrier and jerkier than his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart, gaining a strange solar flare power that seemed to exist only to depower him every other week, along with issues with him dating Wonder Woman rather than Lois Lane. While he gained some fans eventually, he also lost some with the ComicBook/SupermanTruth storyline, which had him return to being a Jerkass while also giving him an uglier costume and haircut. It didn't help that, by that point, the Pre-Flashpoint Superman had migrated over to the New 52 universe with his Lois Lane and their son, and said Superman was considered ''much'' more interesting. In the end, DC pulled the trigger and killed the New 52 Superman right before the ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' initiative, which led to...

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* Superman Franchise/{{Superman}} had an interesting case with the New 52. Many, ''many'' people disliked the New 52 Superman ([[FanNickname NuSupes]]) for being much angrier and jerkier than his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart, gaining a strange solar flare power that seemed to exist only to depower him every other week, along with issues with him dating Wonder Woman Franchise/WonderWoman rather than Lois Lane.ComicBook/LoisLane. While he gained some fans eventually, he also lost some with the ComicBook/SupermanTruth storyline, which had him return to being a Jerkass while also giving him an uglier costume and haircut. It didn't help that, by that point, the Pre-Flashpoint Superman had migrated over to the New 52 universe with his Lois Lane and their son, and said Superman was considered ''much'' more interesting. In the end, DC pulled the trigger and killed the New 52 Superman right before the ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' initiative, which led to...



** When Creator/ChrisClaremont returned to the X-Men in the early 2000s, he created a number of new antagonists for them to fight, such as the Neo, the Shockwave Riders, Vargas, the disembodied telepath Elias Bogan, and a mutant slavery ring led by an alien named Tullamore Voge. None of these characters were particularly well-received, and most of them got a good deal of unnecessary CharacterShilling comparing them favorably to the established villains - Apocalypse considered the Shockwave Riders {{Worthy Opponent}}s, Bogan was said to be the ultimate head of the Hellfire Club despite never being mentioned before, and so on. It's probably telling that any time a writer other than Claremont has used one of these characters, they're shown being defeated in an amusingly undignified way, and ultimately most of them ended up as cannon fodder for {{Bat Family Crossover}}s.

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** When Creator/ChrisClaremont returned to the X-Men in the early 2000s, he created a number of new antagonists for them to fight, such as the Neo, the Shockwave Riders, Vargas, the disembodied telepath Elias Bogan, and a mutant slavery ring led by an alien named Tullamore Voge. None of these characters were particularly well-received, and most of them got a good deal of unnecessary CharacterShilling comparing them favorably to the established villains - Apocalypse considered the Shockwave Riders {{Worthy Opponent}}s, Bogan was said to be the ultimate head of the Hellfire Club despite never being mentioned before, and so on. It's probably telling that any time a writer other than Claremont has used one of these characters, they're shown being defeated in an amusingly undignified way, and ultimately most of them ended up as cannon fodder for {{Bat Family Crossover}}s.crossovers.



** From ComicBook/MarvelNow2016, Riri Williams, the new Iron Man. The majority of fans hate her because she's barely had any appearances, yet is the new Iron Man over other well-established characters. Others hate her because the name is Iron ''Man'', so it's clear she's a publicity stunt. And ''others'' hate her because she's [[CharacterShilling said to be better than Tony]], which a lot of people think is contrived. And yet more others think there's something inherently fishy about entrusting the story of a millennial black girl to a middle-aged white male author in 2016. Basically this trope combined with lots of CreatorsPet.

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** From ComicBook/MarvelNow2016, Riri Williams, the new Iron Man. The majority of fans hate her because she's barely had any appearances, yet is the new Iron Man over other well-established characters. Others hate her because the name is Iron ''Man'', so it's clear she's a publicity stunt. And ''others'' hate her because she's [[CharacterShilling said to be better than Tony]], which a lot of people think is contrived. And yet more others think there's something inherently fishy about entrusting the story of a millennial black girl to a middle-aged white male author in 2016. Basically this trope combined with lots of CreatorsPet.



*** Compounding the Scrappydom for Teen Tony was his "hologram armor", which was basically an in-universe way to justify [[DependingOnTheArtist its inconsistent appearance between issues]].

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*** ** Compounding the Scrappydom for Teen Tony was his "hologram armor", which was basically an in-universe way to justify [[DependingOnTheArtist its inconsistent appearance between issues]].
9th Sep '17 11:38:20 PM CharlesPhipps
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** [[WordOfGod The creator of Duella Dent]] has said ComicBook/HarleyQuinn is basically the SpiritualSuccessor to everything lovable about the original anyway.

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** [[WordOfGod The creator of Duella Duela Dent]] has said ComicBook/HarleyQuinn is basically the SpiritualSuccessor to everything lovable about the original anyway. A rare case of the replacement being created completely independently, still filling their niche, and being far more popular than the original ever was.
9th Sep '17 11:36:03 PM CharlesPhipps
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Added DiffLines:

** [[WordOfGod The creator of Duella Dent]] has said ComicBook/HarleyQuinn is basically the SpiritualSuccessor to everything lovable about the original anyway.
9th Sep '17 7:17:14 AM MagiMecha
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Added DiffLines:

* Avril Kincaid, the latest person to take up the name ComicBook/{{Quasar}}, quickly became this. A lot of the hate came from the fact that not only did she displace the more popular original male Quasar, Wendell Vaughn, but also the alien female Phyla-Vell, the daughter of ComicBook/CaptainMarVell. Coming off at a time where many of Marvel's mightiest were being replaced with many a LegacyCharacter, she just felt like a random cash-in. Things got worse with the lead-up to and release of ''ComicBook/SecretEmpire'', where Avril was being [[CharacterShilling boasted as the only person who could smash a powerful barrier designed to keep alien threats out of Earth]] and being put in a ConvenientComa to raise tension because of it.
25th Aug '17 6:49:31 AM CosmicFerret
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** But when Bart Allen had his turn as TheFlash, fans were much more in agreement about their loathing of the character due partly to the {{Wangst}}, partly due to his being [[PlotRelevantAgeUp artificially aged]] to shoehorn him into the role, but mostly because the character lost his FunPersonified sense of humor and cheerful demeanor.

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** But when Bart Allen had his turn as TheFlash, Franchise/TheFlash, fans were much more in agreement about their loathing of the character due partly to the {{Wangst}}, partly due to his being [[PlotRelevantAgeUp artificially aged]] to shoehorn him into the role, but mostly because the character lost his FunPersonified sense of humor and cheerful demeanor.
19th Jul '17 1:04:05 PM SeptimusHeap
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* Done in-universe (they were this trope to the readers as well, but here it was intentional) with the four replacement Supermen that cropped up after ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman. The first three were: [[EvilCounterpart a Cyborg that eventually turned out to be evil]]; [[NinetiesAntiHero a cold, elitist Kryptonian]]; and [[ComicBook/{{Superboy}} a loud, '90s-ish punk teenager]]. [[{{Steel}} The fourth was a heroic, moral, upstanding guy... who really, really didn't want to replace Superman]].

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* Done in-universe (they were this trope to the readers as well, but here it was intentional) with the four replacement Supermen that cropped up after ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman. The first three were: [[EvilCounterpart a Cyborg that eventually turned out to be evil]]; [[NinetiesAntiHero a cold, elitist Kryptonian]]; and [[ComicBook/{{Superboy}} a loud, '90s-ish punk teenager]]. [[{{Steel}} [[ComicBook/{{Steel}} The fourth was a heroic, moral, upstanding guy... who really, really didn't want to replace Superman]].



* Deathstroke's team of "Titans" when ''[[TeenTitans Titans]]'' was remade into a series about Slade's mercenary team stealing the Titans name after the actual, adult Titans had disbanded following ''ComicBook/JusticeLeagueCryForJustice'' and ''ComicBook/BlackestNight''. The run immediately got off to a bad start by killing off [[ComicBook/TheAtom Ryan Choi]] in an extremely graphic and dragged out manner just to show how "dangerous" this new team was, which landed DC a number of accusations about inter-company racism; Ryan's creator Creator/GailSimone actually broke her legendary politeness to say how much she hated how he died. A few years later, DC released ''{{ComicBook/Convergence}}'' with two miniseries, ''Convergence: The Atom'' and ''Convergence: Titans'' meant to specifically address and undo the damage this run on the book did. Added to the accusations about Ryan's death were:

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* Deathstroke's team of "Titans" when ''[[TeenTitans ''[[ComicBook/TeenTitans Titans]]'' was remade into a series about Slade's mercenary team stealing the Titans name after the actual, adult Titans had disbanded following ''ComicBook/JusticeLeagueCryForJustice'' and ''ComicBook/BlackestNight''. The run immediately got off to a bad start by killing off [[ComicBook/TheAtom Ryan Choi]] in an extremely graphic and dragged out manner just to show how "dangerous" this new team was, which landed DC a number of accusations about inter-company racism; Ryan's creator Creator/GailSimone actually broke her legendary politeness to say how much she hated how he died. A few years later, DC released ''{{ComicBook/Convergence}}'' with two miniseries, ''Convergence: The Atom'' and ''Convergence: Titans'' meant to specifically address and undo the damage this run on the book did. Added to the accusations about Ryan's death were:
25th Jun '17 4:15:43 PM SarcasmKid
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* The cast of ComicBook/Earth2 were hit by this twice over.
** First, there are the new versions of Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Al Pratt, and the rest of the Justice Society characters getting revamped by being made YoungerAndHipper and getting their backstories totally rewritten in an attempt by DC to make them more cooler. Fans of the Golden Age characters and the original Society members were put off by this since they liked the characters ''because'' they were older heroes, as well as the fact that they were more or less unrecognizable to the characters they once more. Many felt these were just the [=JSA=] characters InNameOnly.
** Then, for those who were actually fans of the Earth-2 cast, they got shoved aside for brand new versions of Superman and Batman, even though the book's original selling point was that it would ''not'' be focusing on Batman and Superman.



* [[ComicBook/TeenTitans The Joker's Daughter]] wasn't universally loved, but she gained a small, devoted fanbase. That said, the fans of this Duela Dent absolutely hated the new Joker's Daughter created for the New 52. Original Duela's fans saw her as a cheap, unnecessarily edgy knock off with a convoluted backstory, lacking the original Duela's humor and style, and grew to hate her more and more with every appearance she made because of how hard DC was shoehorning her into their books. What sunk this version from the beginning was that she literally had no connection to the Joker whatsoever, and was just some random, mentally unbalanced woman who found the Joker's face and started wearing it like a mask in an effort to make her "father" happy.



** Everything about Cinder's character. A suicidal rape victim whose debut included her murdering a man by burning off his penis and setting him on fire using her vagina. [[http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2010/12/lavagina.jpg We're being serious here.]]

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** Everything about Cinder's character. A suicidal rape victim whose debut included her murdering a man by burning off his penis and setting him on fire using her vagina. [[http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2010/12/lavagina.jpg We're being serious here.]]]] That's not even getting into how poorly Eric Wallace portrayed Cinder's sexual abuse and his inability to actually make her sympathetic, forcing the readers to view her as tragic when she does absolutely nothing but wallow in self pity when she's not killing people.
17th Jun '17 9:24:42 AM nombretomado
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** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor JoeQuesada's daughter. Mary Jane has become a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so has everyone else]]. Reactions have been negative, to say the least.

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** After the ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' storyline broke up the Parkers' marriage, ''anyone'' Peter dated would have gotten heat for not being Mary Jane. But the replacement we got was Carlie Cooper, a RelationshipSue named after editor JoeQuesada's Creator/JoeQuesada's daughter. Mary Jane has become a ShipperOnDeck for the pairing, [[CreatorsPet and so has everyone else]]. Reactions have been negative, to say the least.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=ReplacementScrappy.ComicBooks