History Main / ThoughtCrime

17th Nov '17 2:33:26 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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* For several decades, in most culturally European civilizations murder has been punished more severely if it was premeditated. They have usually codify Categories/Types/'Degrees' of Murder, which carry different sentences, and premeditation affects the sentencing if the defendant is found guilty.

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* For several decades, in most culturally many European civilizations and Anglophone jurisdictions, murder has been punished more severely if it was premeditated. They have usually codify Categories/Types/'Degrees' of Murder, Such jurisdictions often classify murder under different categories (like the UsefulNotes/ThreeDegreesOfMurder in UsefulNotes/AmericanCourts), which carry different sentences, and premeditation affects the sentencing if the defendant is found guilty.
6th Aug '17 11:34:30 AM Mr.Bubbles
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* The Khmer Rouge, among their many crimes against humanity and DisproportionateRetribution, made certain thoughts punishable by death in their campaign to reset Cambodia to "year zero." This included thinking about the past, holding any religious beliefs, showing too much individuality [[note]] like eating by yourself [[/note]], or showing any attachment to western ideals.
11th Jul '17 6:57:18 PM KillerClowns
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It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchment whistleblowing]]'' is illegal--after all, only a [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets communist/fascist]]/[[AcceptableReligiousTargets atheist/religious fanatic]] etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.

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It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchment ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchmen whistleblowing]]'' is illegal--after all, only a [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets communist/fascist]]/[[AcceptableReligiousTargets atheist/religious fanatic]] etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.
21st Jun '17 11:58:40 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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->''"Whether he wrote DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER, or whether he refrained from writing it, made no difference. Whether he went on with the diary, or whether he did not go on with it, made no difference. The [[SecretPolice Thought Police]] would get him just the same. He had committed -- would still have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper -- the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you."''

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->''"Whether he wrote DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER, or whether he refrained from writing it, made no difference. Whether he went on with the diary, or whether he did not go on with it, made no difference. The [[SecretPolice Thought Police]] Police would get him just the same. He had committed -- would still have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper -- the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you."''



It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchment whistleblowing]]'' is illegal--after all, only a [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets communist/fascist/]][[AcceptableReligiousTargets atheist/religious fanatic]] etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.

to:

It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchment whistleblowing]]'' is illegal--after all, only a [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets communist/fascist/]][[AcceptableReligiousTargets communist/fascist]]/[[AcceptableReligiousTargets atheist/religious fanatic]] etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.
21st Jun '17 11:56:14 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''whistleblowing'' is illegal--after all, only a communist/fascist/atheist/religious fanatic etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.

to:

It is nearly impossible to remove Thoughtcrime policies once enacted. The definition tends to expand until ''whistleblowing'' ''[[WhoWatchesTheWatchment whistleblowing]]'' is illegal--after all, only a communist/fascist/atheist/religious fanatic [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets communist/fascist/]][[AcceptableReligiousTargets atheist/religious fanatic]] etc. would be deceptive enough to claim that our glorious and beneficent regime could possibly make errors, suffer from wishful thinking, or be corrupt.



* Just about any society or organization that advances a moral or ethical point of view is going to attempt to regulate people's thoughts, if only sometimes very subtly. Religions are old pros at this, introducing such concepts as "guilt" and "original sin" to inculcate in their believers that [[HumansAreFlawed they are fundamentally flawed]] and must guard against the temptation to even ''entertain'' disturbing thoughts. Propaganda and peer pressure are more common techniques in the secular world.

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* Just about any ''any'' society or organization that advances a moral or ethical point of view is going to attempt to regulate people's thoughts, the way people think, if only sometimes very subtly. Religions are old pros at this, introducing such concepts such as "guilt" and "original sin" to inculcate in their believers that [[HumansAreFlawed they are fundamentally flawed]] and must guard against the temptation to even ''entertain'' disturbing thoughts. Propaganda and Political correctness, peer pressure pressure, propaganda, public education and social engineering are more some of the common techniques ways this is carried out in the secular world.



** Even more [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement controversially]] the same argument has been made against hate crime legislation, since people are not just punished for committing a crime but for what they were thinking while doing it. For instance, assault is already a crime, but assaulting someone because they were ''black'' is a hate crime. So the specific motive is the difference.

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** Even more [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement controversially]] the same argument has been made against [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime hate crime crime]] legislation, since people are not just punished for committing a crime but for what they were thinking while doing it. For instance, assault is already a crime, but assaulting someone because they were ''black'' is a hate crime. So the specific motive is the difference.
30th May '17 8:02:35 AM justanid
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If a reason is ever given at all, [[BigBrotherIsWatching apart from the obvious]], Thoughtcrime can be [[HalfTruth explained]] as "intrusive thoughts," and their '[[HappinessIsMandatory repression]]' leads to "[[BlatantLies a happier society]]."

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If a reason is ever given at all, [[BigBrotherIsWatching apart from the obvious]], Thoughtcrime can be [[HalfTruth explained]] as "intrusive thoughts," and their '[[HappinessIsMandatory repression]]' [[HappinessIsMandatory repression]] leads to "[[BlatantLies a happier society]]."
society]]".



Compare TheHeretic for a religious equivalent. Related to TheEvilsOfFreeWill. In more nuanced stories, some of these guys sincerely believe they're using BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood. For others, it's just business as usual. As a means of propaganda, if the methods combating Thoughtcrime are known to the public, the government (or their corporate benefactors) might attempt to paint it in a lighter vein by calling them EnhancedInterrogationTechniques. PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad often occurs when a free, democratic society is the one that tries to codify such rules.

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Overlaps with CulturePolice. Compare TheHeretic with TheHeretic, for a religious equivalent. Related to TheEvilsOfFreeWill. In more nuanced stories, some of these guys sincerely believe they're using BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood. For others, it's just business as usual. As a means of propaganda, if the methods combating Thoughtcrime are known to the public, the government (or their corporate benefactors) might attempt to paint it in a lighter vein by calling them EnhancedInterrogationTechniques. PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad often occurs when a free, democratic society is the one that tries to codify such rules.rules.
16th Mar '17 9:47:13 PM Fireblood
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* For several decades, in most culturally European civilisations murder has been punished more severely if it was pre-planned. In Constitutional Law (punishment determined by law-writing bodies) countries they have Categories/Types/'Degrees' of Murder, which carry different sentences, and in Common Law (punishment based upon Judicial precedent) countries they don't but premeditation still affects the sentencing if the defendent is found guilty.
* Strangely averted with British laws regarding homosexuality. All of these laws were about men having relationships with other men, with no mention made to lesbian or bisexual women; this was because the government actually thought that if they changed the law and made lesbianism illegal, then they would be introducing the concept of lesbianism to the public and thus giving "innocent women" the idea that it was possible. This still had the intended effect, however, with many women being unable to safely come out and some even feeling pressured to marry men anyway.

to:

* For several decades, in most culturally European civilisations civilizations murder has been punished more severely if it was pre-planned. In Constitutional Law (punishment determined by law-writing bodies) countries they premeditated. They have usually codify Categories/Types/'Degrees' of Murder, which carry different sentences, and in Common Law (punishment based upon Judicial precedent) countries they don't but premeditation still affects the sentencing if the defendent defendant is found guilty.
* Strangely averted with British laws regarding homosexuality. All of these laws were about men having relationships with other men, with no mention made to of lesbian or bisexual women; this was because the government actually thought that if they changed the law and made lesbianism illegal, then they would be introducing the concept of lesbianism to the public and thus giving "innocent women" the idea that it was possible. This still had the intended effect, however, with many women being unable to safely come out and some even feeling pressured to marry men anyway.
25th Feb '17 11:06:42 AM moongalleon22
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* Strangely averted with British laws regarding homosexuality. All of these laws were about men having relationships with other men, with no mention made to lesbian or bisexual women; this was because the government actually thought that if they changed the law and made lesbianism illegal, then they would be introducing the concept of lesbianism to the public and thus giving "innocent women" the idea that it was possible. This still had the intended effect of causing the oppressed to oppress themselves, however, as a lot of women who were alive at the time have noted that they felt alone and had no words for what they were.

to:

* Strangely averted with British laws regarding homosexuality. All of these laws were about men having relationships with other men, with no mention made to lesbian or bisexual women; this was because the government actually thought that if they changed the law and made lesbianism illegal, then they would be introducing the concept of lesbianism to the public and thus giving "innocent women" the idea that it was possible. This still had the intended effect of causing the oppressed to oppress themselves, effect, however, as a lot of with many women who were alive at the time have noted that they felt alone being unable to safely come out and had no words for what they were.
some even feeling pressured to marry men anyway.
25th Feb '17 5:07:03 AM moongalleon22
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to:

* Strangely averted with British laws regarding homosexuality. All of these laws were about men having relationships with other men, with no mention made to lesbian or bisexual women; this was because the government actually thought that if they changed the law and made lesbianism illegal, then they would be introducing the concept of lesbianism to the public and thus giving "innocent women" the idea that it was possible. This still had the intended effect of causing the oppressed to oppress themselves, however, as a lot of women who were alive at the time have noted that they felt alone and had no words for what they were.
25th Feb '17 5:02:17 AM moongalleon22
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Added DiffLines:

** Slightly averted in the case of "possession with the intent to supply" type crimes, in that you can possess more drugs/weapons/whatever than one person is ever going to need just for themselves (so the idea that you have that much of it so you can give/sell it to other people makes sense). The problem comes in proving that intent when other explanations are still possible.
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