History Main / TheNeedsOfTheMany

26th Feb '16 8:59:58 AM StClair
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* This was Aang's final dilemma in the last episodes of ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', when Aang was distraught over the thought of having to kill Fire Lord Ozai [[ItSucksToBeTheChosenOne in order to save the world]], even though his upbringing as an Air Nomad and monk taught him [[ThouShaltNotKill to hold all life as sacred]], [[TurnTheOtherCheek even the lives of people who might be morally evil.]] His friends try to brace him for this as best they can, while his past incarnations either agree with them or just say he'll have to stop agonizing and make ''a'' decision no matter what. [[spoiler: He might have gone through with it if there was NO other choice, but the Lion Turtle gave him a third option.]]

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* This was Aang's final dilemma in the last episodes of ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', when Aang was distraught over the thought of having to kill Fire Lord Ozai [[ItSucksToBeTheChosenOne in order to save the world]], even though his upbringing as an Air Nomad and monk taught him [[ThouShaltNotKill to hold all life as sacred]], [[TurnTheOtherCheek even the lives of people who might be morally evil.]] His friends try to brace him for this as best they can, while his past incarnations either agree with them or just say he'll have to stop agonizing and make ''a'' decision no matter what. [[spoiler: He might have gone through with it if there was NO other choice, but the Lion Turtle gave him [[TakeAThirdOption a third option.option]].]]
14th Feb '16 2:23:03 PM DarkPaladinX
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Added DiffLines:

* Zigzagged with the communist ideology. At first, it is seem to be easily interpreted that the massive wealth and goods of the upper class (the capitalists) should be taken away and redistributed among the working class majority [[note]]A large majority of Europeans at that time period were lower class laborers working and textile mills and factories[[/note]], something that UsefulNotes/KarlMarx himself advocated. Ironically enough, Karl Marx himself ''opposed'' utilitarianism (at least Bentham's version of it), stating that human nature is too dynamic to be limited to a ''single'' utility and noted that Bentham and other utilitarians fails to take into account of the changing character of people. Instead, the communist ideology is more closely related to Immanuel Kant and deontology instead of utilitarianism.
9th Jan '16 7:07:39 PM XISCifi
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* In ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'', [[spoiler: Jack (under emotional stress) agrees to sacrifice his grandson to save the 10% of Earth's children who would be subject to a FateWorseThanDeath otherwise.]] This is especially jarring as the entire season leading up to that point had portrayed sacrificing even a few lives to save the entire world as unacceptable.

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* In ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'', [[spoiler: Jack (under emotional stress) agrees to sacrifice his grandson to save the 10% of Earth's children who would be subject to a FateWorseThanDeath otherwise.]] This is especially jarring as the entire season leading up to that point had portrayed sacrificing even a few lives to save the entire world many as unacceptable.an unacceptable evil that the protagonists were willing to do anything to prevent.
9th Jan '16 7:02:40 PM XISCifi
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* In ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'', [[spoiler: Jack (under emotional stress) agrees to sacrifice his grandson to save the 10% of Earth's children who would be subject to a FateWorseThanDeath otherwise.]]

to:

* In ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'', [[spoiler: Jack (under emotional stress) agrees to sacrifice his grandson to save the 10% of Earth's children who would be subject to a FateWorseThanDeath otherwise.]]]] This is especially jarring as the entire season leading up to that point had portrayed sacrificing even a few lives to save the entire world as unacceptable.
21st Nov '15 12:57:10 PM intastiel
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* Taxes.
* 'Progressive' taxes.
* 'Excess profit' taxes on companies.
* Food rationing.
* Conscription.
* Eugenic sterilization, or so the argument goes.



* This trope is the rationale behind most, if not all, HeroicSacrifices.
11th Nov '15 3:50:52 PM R1ck
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->'''Image of G'Kar's Father:''' ''[to G'Kar]'' Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved. Because, if we fail in this, then ''none'' of us will be saved.
-->--''Series/BabylonFive'', "Dust to Dust"
1st Nov '15 9:20:37 PM Fireblood
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* Giles attempts to invoke this trope but Buffy defies it at the end of Season 5, when Giles tries to persuade Buffy to go along with this trope and kill her not-really-sister Dawn if that's what it takes to save the world. Buffy is completely unwilling and threatens anyone who attempts it that she will kill them. It was a very compelling case, because if the world ended Dawn would have died anyway. In the end [[spoiler: it does come down to that, but Buffy finds a way to TakeAThirdOption]]. Discussing her previous actions a couple of seasons later, Buffy tells Giles she feels differently and probably would be willing to kill any one person to save the world at that point.

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* ** Giles attempts to invoke this trope but Buffy defies it at the end of Season 5, when Giles tries to persuade Buffy to go along with this trope and kill her not-really-sister Dawn if that's what it takes to save the world. Buffy is completely unwilling and threatens anyone who attempts it that she will kill them. It was a very compelling case, because if the world ended Dawn would have died anyway. In the end [[spoiler: it does come down to that, but Buffy finds a way to TakeAThirdOption]]. Discussing her previous actions a couple of seasons later, Buffy tells Giles she feels differently and probably would be willing to kill any one person to save the world at that point.



* [[UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust Reasoning behind the sterilization of 400,000 German citizens and the Euthanasia of Germany's 80,000 mentally ill and disabled in the period 1933-45.]] Interestingly, the sterilizations were not carried out by government personnel or under orders, but by regular doctors with government encouragement and approval.

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* [[UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust Reasoning The reasoning behind the sterilization of 400,000 German citizens and the Euthanasia extermination of Germany's 80,000 mentally ill and disabled in the period 1933-45.]] Interestingly, the sterilizations were not carried out by government personnel or under orders, but by regular doctors with government encouragement and approval.
24th Oct '15 5:46:08 PM nombretomado
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* In the second season finale of ''{{Primeval}}'', Lester is just about to bring Leek's plans to a stop. Leek however still has Cutter catured and threatens to have him killed if Lester does not back down. Lester refuses but does show some regret over it.

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* In the second season finale of ''{{Primeval}}'', ''Series/{{Primeval}}'', Lester is just about to bring Leek's plans to a stop. Leek however still has Cutter catured and threatens to have him killed if Lester does not back down. Lester refuses but does show some regret over it.
22nd Oct '15 9:46:25 PM MAI742
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* This is the rationale for war and military mobilization in a War of Annihilation (''Vernichtungskrieg''), such as the Soviet-German War: better the country be impoverished and many people die than the entire people be exterminated. It can still apply to ordinary wars in which the survival of the civilization itself is not at stake, such as Germany's war with the rest of The Allies, but the cost-benefit is not so obviously clear-cut.



* This is the rationale for war in a War of Annihilation (''Vernichtungskrieg''): better the country be impoverished and many people die than the entire people be exterminated. It can still apply to ordinary 'defensive' or 'pre-emptive' wars in which the survival of the civilization itself is not at stake, but the cost-benefit is not so obviously clear-cut.
22nd Oct '15 9:43:12 PM MAI742
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* Communist countries would often use this. They would export most of their crop rather than use it to feed their own people. In their defense they would say "a few must starve for the sake of the many", and by few they mean a few million people will starve, for the sake of the many billions more who will starve later.
* On a more positive note, this is part of the logic behind assassinating a tyrant - kill one obviously evil person (and those loyal to him) so that thousands or even millions may live free of his oppression.
** Terry Pratchett noted that there's a flaw in this logic: "Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?"

to:

* Communist countries would often use this. They would export most of their crop rather than use it to feed their own people. In their defense they would say "a few must starve for Taxes.
* 'Progressive' taxes.
* 'Excess profit' taxes on companies.
* Food rationing.
* Conscription.
* Eugenic sterilization, or so
the sake of the many", and by few they mean a few million people will starve, for the sake of the many billions more who will starve later.
argument goes.
* On a more positive note, this is part of the logic [[UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust Reasoning behind assassinating a tyrant - kill one obviously evil person (and those loyal to him) so that thousands or even millions may live free of his oppression.
** Terry Pratchett noted that there's a flaw in this logic: "Shoot
the dictator sterilization of 400,000 German citizens and prevent the war? But Euthanasia of Germany's 80,000 mentally ill and disabled in the dictator is merely period 1933-45.]] Interestingly, the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him sterilizations were not carried out by government personnel or under orders, but by regular doctors with government encouragement and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?"approval.



* This is, in a few cases, the rationale behind war itself. Better for a (relatively) few soldiers to die than for an entire civilization to be wiped out. This applies primarily to war acts of defense, or on rare occasions perhaps preemptive war. It is extremely rare, that a purely offensive war could be justified by this trope: If it were, it would have to be to save people from a mass-murdering dictator or the like.

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* The ultimate reason why the lower levels of warfare must always be subordinated to the higher levels - [[StrategyVersusTactics tactics to operations, operations to strategy, and strategy to Grand Strategy]] - to avoid disaster.
* On a debatably positive note, this is part of the 'logic' behind assassinating a tyrant - kill one obviously evil person (and those loyal to him) so that thousands or even millions may live free of his oppression. On the other hand, Terry Pratchett noted that there's a flaw in this logic: "Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?"
* This is, in a few cases, is the rationale behind for war itself. Better for in a (relatively) few soldiers to War of Annihilation (''Vernichtungskrieg''): better the country be impoverished and many people die than for an the entire people be exterminated. It can still apply to ordinary 'defensive' or 'pre-emptive' wars in which the survival of the civilization to be wiped out. This applies primarily to war acts of defense, or on rare occasions perhaps preemptive war. It itself is extremely rare, that a purely offensive war could be justified by this trope: If it were, it would have to be to save people from a mass-murdering dictator or not at stake, but the like.cost-benefit is not so obviously clear-cut.
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