History Main / TemporalParadox

7th Jul '16 12:37:37 AM Sapphirea2
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** In the two part adventure, "Under the Lake" and "Before the Flood", an ontological paradox, referred to in this as a bootstrap paradox, is the central theme of "Before the Flood". The Doctor's ghost is revealed to be a hologram created by the Doctor's Sonic Sunglasses, and everything the ghost said was programmed in by the Doctor. The thing is, the Doctor only knew to create the hologram because he saw the ghost and was told what it said. So, when exactly did the Doctor come up with the idea for the ghost and what it said?
** Also in "Before the Flood", the Doctor gives a hypothetical example of this paradox featuring Beethoven.

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** In the two part adventure, "Under the Lake" and "Before the Flood", an ontological paradox, referred to in this as a bootstrap paradox, is the central theme of "Before the Flood". The Doctor's ghost is revealed to be a hologram created by the Doctor's Sonic Sunglasses, and everything the ghost said was programmed in by the Doctor. The thing is, the Doctor only knew to create the hologram because he saw the ghost and was told what it said. So, when exactly did the Doctor come up with the idea for the ghost and what it said?
**
said? Also in "Before the Flood", the Doctor gives a hypothetical example of this paradox featuring Beethoven.Beethoven.
** The Series 9 finale "Hell Bent" a few episodes later hinges on the Doctor trying to [[spoiler: save Clara Oswald from being Killed Off For Real...an event he witnessed]]. Because he would not be doing this if [[spoiler: she were still alive]], he creates a potentially RealityBreakingParadox, the sort of thing he usually helps to ''stop''' in other episodes -- a sign he's been DrivenTomadness and no longer cares about anyone's needs but his own. He is unable to completely pull off the paradox, but he is returned to his best self before he crosses the MoralEventHorizon.
25th Jun '16 12:09:00 PM Doug86
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* Distilled to its purest form in FredricBrown's short story ''[[http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29948/29948-h/29948-h.htm Experiment]]''.

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* Distilled to its purest form in FredricBrown's Creator/FredricBrown's short story ''[[http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29948/29948-h/29948-h.htm Experiment]]''.



* The high cost to reality is invoked and elegantly resolved in [[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/03/ this]] PennyArcade strip.

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* The high cost to reality is invoked and elegantly resolved in [[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/03/ this]] PennyArcade ''Webcomic/PennyArcade'' strip.



* In ''Series/RedDwarf,'' Kryten's last words (in a timeline that is eventually undone) are the words he knew he would say because he saw his future self die earlier in the episode. Somehow, though he only said it because he knew he was going to, "enig" turns out to be ''important,'' short for "enigma." Of course, ''Series/RedDwarf'' is hardly anyone's idea of "hard SF."

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* In ''Series/RedDwarf,'' Kryten's last words (in a timeline that is eventually undone) are the words he knew he would say because he saw his future self die earlier in the episode. Somehow, though he only said it because he knew he was going to, "enig" turns out to be ''important,'' short for "enigma." Of course, ''Series/RedDwarf'' ''Red Dwarf'' is hardly anyone's idea of "hard SF."



* ''Series/TwelveMonkeys'': {{Discussed}} frequently by the characters. Most notably, Cole must avoid 'corrupting' Cassandra's timeline too much because that would prevent her from recording the message that led to his time-travel mission. Then again [[spoiler: the paradox that would be caused by preventing the plague seems to concern no one]].
* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time traveller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as a baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitlers' maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
* In ''GameOfThrones'' episode ''The Door'' we learn that the reason why Hodor can only say that word is [[spoiler:because Bran warged into his head when he was a child at the same time they were attacked by White Walkers, thus causing him some sort of damage. Hodor is actually a contraction of Meera's orders; Hold the Door]].

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* ''Series/TwelveMonkeys'': {{Discussed}} {{Discussed|Trope}} frequently by the characters. Most notably, Cole must avoid 'corrupting' Cassandra's timeline too much because that would prevent her from recording the message that led to his time-travel mission. Then again [[spoiler: the paradox that would be caused by preventing the plague seems to concern no one]].
* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' ''Series/TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time traveller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as a baby. Realizing that it was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make which made him bad bad, she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] baby]], causing the paradox when the Hitlers' maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
* In ''GameOfThrones'' the ''Series/GameOfThrones'' episode ''The Door'' we learn it is revealed that the reason why Hodor can only say that word is [[spoiler:because Bran warged into his head when he was a child at the same time they were attacked by White Walkers, thus causing him some sort of damage. Hodor is actually a contraction of Meera's orders; orders: Hold the Door]].



* Chronos, the Incarnation of Time from Creator/PiersAnthony's Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality is immune to this, to an extent. He cannot be balked by paradox, he remembers the original and the new timeline, though no one else does. The limit is that he cannot interfere with his own workings (the "Three Person Limit"). He can exist once, go back in time and change things, but he cannot go back in time and stop himself from changing things, thus the three person limit.

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* Chronos, the Incarnation of Time from Creator/PiersAnthony's Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality ''Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality'', is immune to this, to an extent. He cannot be balked by paradox, he remembers the original and the new timeline, though no one else does. The limit is that he cannot interfere with his own workings (the "Three Person Limit"). He can exist once, go back in time and change things, but he cannot go back in time and stop himself from changing things, thus the three person limit.



** [[http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.html Another Heinlein story]], ''Literature/ByHisBootstraps'', takes things nearly as far. Among other hijinks, the main character gets a book from the future, which he copies into another one (the same one, when it's new?) when it becomes too old and falling apart. A good way to avoid an object-based ontological paradox.

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** [[http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.html Another Heinlein story]], ''Literature/ByHisBootstraps'', takes things nearly as far. Among other hijinks, the main character gets a book from the future, which he copies into another one (the same one, when it's new?) when it becomes too old and is falling apart. A good way to avoid an object-based ontological paradox.



* In the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' [[{{Trekverse}} universe]], time travelers (and the writers) are generally immune to the effects of changes they make to the timeline, and can therefore find themselves in an AlternateUniverse where they should not exist (as in "The City on the Edge of Forever" ([[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries TOS]]), "Yesterday's Enterprise" ([[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration TNG]]), or "Cold Front" ([[Series/StarTrekEnterprise Enterprise]])).

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* In the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' [[{{Trekverse}} [[Franchise/{{Trekverse}} universe]], time travelers (and the writers) are generally immune to the effects of changes they make to the timeline, and can therefore find themselves in an AlternateUniverse where they should not exist (as in "The City on the Edge of Forever" ([[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries TOS]]), "Yesterday's Enterprise" ([[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration TNG]]), or "Cold Front" ([[Series/StarTrekEnterprise Enterprise]])).



* In the TimeTravel RPG ''TableTopGame/{{Continuum}}'', if a time traveler creates a paradox, they accumulate "frag," and if they accumulate too much, it eventually causes them to unravel. What's more, unchecked temporal paradoxes will eventually lead to the unraveling of reality itself. (On the other hand, the game totally mindscrews you with the fact it manages to be utterly fatalistic about it: the fact the universe itself exists, even if there is a paradox in existence, means that -- at some point -- the temporal paradox will be/does get/has been fixed, by the Continuum. It's just a matter of who or what becomes collateral damage in the process of fixing it.) Much of the game centers around the players, who are part of "The Continuum", trying to fix paradoxes deliberately created by time travelers (known as "narcissists") who don't believe the official line on paradoxes and who want to mess with the timeline for their own personal gain.

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* In the TimeTravel RPG ''TableTopGame/{{Continuum}}'', ''TabletopGame/{{Continuum}}'', if a time traveler creates a paradox, they accumulate "frag," and if they accumulate too much, it eventually causes them to unravel. What's more, unchecked temporal paradoxes will eventually lead to the unraveling of reality itself. (On the other hand, the game totally mindscrews you with the fact it manages to be utterly fatalistic about it: the fact the universe itself exists, even if there is a paradox in existence, means that -- at some point -- the temporal paradox will be/does get/has been fixed, by the Continuum. It's just a matter of who or what becomes collateral damage in the process of fixing it.) Much of the game centers around the players, who are part of "The Continuum", trying to fix paradoxes deliberately created by time travelers (known as "narcissists") who don't believe the official line on paradoxes and who want to mess with the timeline for their own personal gain.



* The Czech-developed RTS game ''Original War'' revolves completely around this. TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture, just as the world's oil reserves are becoming exhausted, the mineral 'Siberite' that enables Cold Fusion is discovered in Siberia, giving the Russians a monopoly on the new energy source. In order to avoid Russian dominance, the USA uses an alien time machine found during a WorldWarOne expedition to Siberia to send volunteers in a one-way voyage to the early Pleistocene, the only period the machine can be set to, and use them to mine and move all the reserves of Siberite to will-be Alaska over a land bridge connecting the two regions at that time. Once there, however, they find [[DirtyCommunists Soviet troops]] from an [[AlternateHistory alternate timeline]] ready to fight them. The A-Soviets also found an alien time machine in a Siberian archaeological site, along with rests of mining machinery and traces of ''Alaskite'', a mineral that enables Cold Fusion that is only found in Alaska and is threatening to give the Americans the world's energy monopoly, so they used the time machine to send volunteers to the early Pleistocene and move all the reserves of Alaskite from will-be Alaska to Siberia...

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* The Czech-developed RTS game ''Original War'' revolves completely around this. TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture, just as the world's oil reserves are becoming exhausted, the mineral 'Siberite' that enables Cold Fusion is discovered in Siberia, giving the Russians a monopoly on the new energy source. In order to avoid Russian dominance, the USA uses an alien time machine found during a WorldWarOne Usefulnotes/WorldWarI expedition to Siberia to send volunteers in a one-way voyage to the early Pleistocene, the only period the machine can be set to, and use them to mine and move all the reserves of Siberite to will-be Alaska over a land bridge connecting the two regions at that time. Once there, however, they find [[DirtyCommunists Soviet troops]] from an [[AlternateHistory alternate timeline]] ready to fight them. The A-Soviets also found an alien time machine in a Siberian archaeological site, along with rests of mining machinery and traces of ''Alaskite'', a mineral that enables Cold Fusion that is only found in Alaska and is threatening to give the Americans the world's energy monopoly, so they used the time machine to send volunteers to the early Pleistocene and move all the reserves of Alaskite from will-be Alaska to Siberia...
1st Jun '16 11:12:31 PM Luppercus
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* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time travaller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as a baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitlers' maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].

to:

* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time travaller traveller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as a baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitlers' maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
1st Jun '16 11:11:41 PM Luppercus
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* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time travaller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitler's maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
* In ''GameOfThrones'' episode ''The Door'' we learn that the reason why Hodor can only say that word is [[spoiler:because Bran warged into his head when he was a child at the same time they were attacked by White Walkers, thus causing him some sort of damage. Hodor is actually a contraction of Meeras orders; Hold the Door]].

to:

* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time travaller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as a baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitler's Hitlers' maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
* In ''GameOfThrones'' episode ''The Door'' we learn that the reason why Hodor can only say that word is [[spoiler:because Bran warged into his head when he was a child at the same time they were attacked by White Walkers, thus causing him some sort of damage. Hodor is actually a contraction of Meeras Meera's orders; Hold the Door]].
1st Jun '16 11:10:03 PM Luppercus
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Added DiffLines:

* An episode of ''TheTwilightZone2002'' named ''Cradle of Darkness'' has a time travaller woman in the mission to kill Hitler as baby. Realizing that was Hitler's upbringing under an authoritarian and racist father what make him bad she [[spoiler:kills herself and the baby]] causing the paradox when the Hitler's maid servant [[spoiler:bring home another baby bought to a beggar mother who resembles Hitler]].
* In ''GameOfThrones'' episode ''The Door'' we learn that the reason why Hodor can only say that word is [[spoiler:because Bran warged into his head when he was a child at the same time they were attacked by White Walkers, thus causing him some sort of damage. Hodor is actually a contraction of Meeras orders; Hold the Door]].
5th May '16 5:50:59 AM Morgenthaler
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Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/{{Shakara}}'': The fellow members of The Hierarchy that the Overlord was planning on betraying go back in time to stop him before he can carry out his plan. He compliments their ingenuity but mocks their attempt, pointing out that this would only create a temporal paradox that would result in an alternate timeline, it wouldn't stop what they've already seen him do in the future. However, even that rests on the assumption that [[CurbStompBattle he could be killed to begin with]].
31st Mar '16 7:18:07 AM Nightmask
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*** Except there's no reason to think there IS an Object Loop occurring, other than Kirk's offhand comment, since the glasses he sold could have easily simply been lost and destroyed over time while the version that existed at that time continued on into the future to become the pair that Kirk sold in the past.
30th Mar '16 8:53:27 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''Film/Interstellar'' features a semi-temporal paradox, baring a similarity to the Reverse Grandfather Paradox. All of the scenarios in the Paradox are initiated by [[spoiler:Cooper and TARS manipulating space-time inside the Tesseract.]]

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* ''Film/Interstellar'' ''Film/{{Interstellar}}'' features a semi-temporal paradox, baring a similarity to the Reverse Grandfather Paradox. All of the scenarios in the Paradox are initiated by [[spoiler:Cooper and TARS manipulating space-time inside the Tesseract.]]
29th Mar '16 5:35:55 PM Godzillawolf
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* ''WesternAnimation/SuperFriends''. In the ''Challenge'' episode, "Secret Origins Of The Super Friends," the Legion of Doom tries to change history by messing with the origins of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern. Okay, but seeing as how much of Super Friends is based on Pre-''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' lore and hence Luthor's baldness and StartOfDarkness were both accidently caused by Superman when he was Superboy, how can Luthor-- and as its founder, the Legion of Doom itself--exist if Superboy was never there to cause what happened to Luthor? Likewise, given his origins even Pre-Crisis involved someone copying Superman, how does Bizarro continue to exist as well? This also applies, to a lesser extent, to the others. Sinestro's crimes were exposed by Hal Jordan; maybe eventually, someone else would have, but it was Hal's newbie attitude that caused him to question an otherwise model Green Lantern; shift the timeframe and he maybe never meets the [=LoD=]. Most Cheetah origins have Wonder Woman involved in some way, at least some as Cheetah feeling challenged by her existence. Also, take Luthor grabbing Abin Sur's ring. That might get the Guardians' attention. Also, without those three, and especially Big S, would the SF have even formed, and since the [=LoD=] formed out of fear of this group…the list goes crazy on. Ah, everyone know time travelers are [[AWizardDidIt surrounded by a temporal bubble]] that prevents them from being affected by their own alterations in the timesteam. The real question is: if the Legion of Doom could see through time to spy on the "secret origins" of the heroes, how do they not know the entire Justice League's secret identities?

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* ''WesternAnimation/SuperFriends''. In the ''Challenge'' episode, "Secret Origins Of The Super Friends," the Legion of Doom tries to change history by messing with the origins of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern. Okay, but seeing as how much of Super Friends is based on Pre-''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' lore and hence Luthor's baldness and StartOfDarkness were both accidently accidentally caused by Superman when he was Superboy, how can Luthor-- and as its founder, the Legion of Doom itself--exist if Superboy was never there to cause what happened to Luthor? Likewise, given his origins even Pre-Crisis involved someone copying Superman, how does Bizarro continue to exist as well? This also applies, to a lesser extent, to the others. Sinestro's crimes were exposed by Hal Jordan; maybe eventually, someone else would have, but it was Hal's newbie attitude that caused him to question an otherwise model Green Lantern; shift the timeframe and he maybe never meets the [=LoD=]. Most Cheetah origins have Wonder Woman involved in some way, at least some as Cheetah feeling challenged by her existence. Also, take Luthor grabbing Abin Sur's ring. That might get the Guardians' attention. Also, without those three, and especially Big S, would the SF have even formed, and since the [=LoD=] formed out of fear of this group…the list goes crazy on. Ah, everyone know time travelers are [[AWizardDidIt surrounded by a temporal bubble]] that prevents them from being affected by their own alterations in the timesteam. The real question is: if the Legion of Doom could see through time to spy on the "secret origins" of the heroes, how do they not know the entire Justice League's secret identities? identities?
* Starlight Glimmer's revenge plot in ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' results in this: she travels back in time to prevent the Sonic Rainboom that gave the Mane Six their Cutie Marks...to get revenge on them for foiling her actions in Our Town in the season premier, meaning she'd negate her own reason for going back in time in the first place. Though her and Twilight seem to be immune to the timeline changes. Unlike many events, this actually ''does'' cause serious issues: each change to the past she makes causes a BadFuture worse and worse than the last.
8th Mar '16 7:06:15 PM Midna
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* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents'' special, "The Secret Origin of Denzel Crocker". Timmy goes back in time to find out why Crocker was so miserable and to try to fix it. He finds out that as a child, Crocker ''himself'' had fairy godparents--and that they were Cosmo and Wanda, something that they don't remember--and figures out that he must've done something to lose his fairies. He tries to warn the young Crocker, but inadvertently ends up being the one who reveals the secret (with some help from both '70s Cosmo ''and'' modern Cosmo's stupidity). Furthermore, as Jorgen shows up to erase everyone's memories of there being fairies, young Crocker manages to get his hands on the DNA tracker that AJ had built so that they'd know when Crocker was around, ''and'' managed to get Cosmo's DNA to use in it, ''and'' managed to covertly write a memo on the back of it that fairy godparents exist without Jorgen noticing, allowing him to keep that knowledge after his memory of fairies was erased...<script id="gpt-impl-0.6509655509144068" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_72.js"></script>which means that if Timmy had never interfered, Crocker would be neither miserable nor fairy-obsessed. However, whereas when Timmy left for the past, Crocker was using a very primitive and likely useless "fairy finder", the Crocker in the present that Timmy returned to was using the tracker that AJ had built, implying that he ''had'' created an alternate timeline, and leaving one to wonder what happened in the original timeline. Of course, considering it's explicitly stated in TheMovie that few kids keep their fairies past their first year, much less until adulthood when they would leave ''anyway'', we can guess...

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents'' special, "The Secret Origin of Denzel Crocker". Timmy goes back in time to find out why Crocker was so miserable and to try to fix it. He finds out that as a child, Crocker ''himself'' had fairy godparents--and that they were Cosmo and Wanda, something that they don't remember--and figures out that he must've done something to lose his fairies. He tries to warn the young Crocker, but inadvertently ends up being the one who reveals the secret (with some help from both '70s Cosmo ''and'' modern Cosmo's stupidity). Furthermore, as Jorgen shows up to erase everyone's memories of there being fairies, young Crocker manages to get his hands on the DNA tracker that AJ had built so that they'd know when Crocker was around, ''and'' managed to get Cosmo's DNA to use in it, ''and'' managed to covertly write a memo on the back of it that fairy godparents exist without Jorgen noticing, allowing him to keep that knowledge after his memory of fairies was erased...<script id="gpt-impl-0.6509655509144068" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_72.js"></script>which which means that if Timmy had never interfered, Crocker would be neither miserable nor fairy-obsessed. However, whereas when Timmy left for the past, Crocker was using a very primitive and likely useless "fairy finder", the Crocker in the present that Timmy returned to was using the tracker that AJ had built, implying that he ''had'' created an alternate timeline, and leaving one to wonder what happened in the original timeline. Of course, considering it's explicitly stated in TheMovie that few kids keep their fairies past their first year, much less until adulthood when they would leave ''anyway'', we can guess...
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