History Main / SubbingVersusDubbing

20th Jan '17 11:39:13 AM ZombieAladdin
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Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom. Then again, some fans watch raw productions because they just don't care if they can or can't understand what's being said.

to:

Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom. Some of this group are on the extreme end of the "sub" side, insisting that you can only truly appreciate foreign-language media by achieving said fluency in their original languages. Then again, some fans watch raw productions because they just don't care if they can or can't understand what's being said.
17th Jan '17 10:21:39 AM rjd1922
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Subtitling has many advantages: It allows for an extremely accurate translation, including quirks of the original language that [[MeaningfulName play a role in the plot]], while allowing you to hear the original actors' performances. It renders the show accessible to the deaf or hard of hearing. People [[BilingualBonus bilingual in or learning the original language will be able to benefit as well]], since they can enjoy at least parts of the film/TV show in the original while their friends can still know what's going on.[[note]] Assuming the subtitles are actually a good translation; TranslationTrainWreck and BlindIdiotTranslation can happen even with translations supposedly done by professionals. Then there are Dubtitles, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin which are subtitles of the sometimes-heavily-adapted dubbed dialogue rather than a direct translation]], which are highly frowned-upon by fans for obvious reasons.[[/note]] Some fansubbers even include notes in the subtitles that help explain certain cultural references or jokes that might not otherwise be properly understood by a non-native audience.

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Subtitling has many advantages: It allows for an extremely accurate translation, including quirks of the original language that [[MeaningfulName play a role in the plot]], while allowing you to hear the original actors' performances. It renders the show accessible to the deaf or hard of hearing. People [[BilingualBonus bilingual in or learning the original language will be able to benefit as well]], since they can enjoy at least parts of the film/TV show in the original while their friends can still know what's going on.[[note]] Assuming the subtitles are actually a good translation; BlindIdiotTranslation and TranslationTrainWreck and BlindIdiotTranslation can happen even with translations supposedly done by professionals. Then there are Dubtitles, {{Dubtitle}}s, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin which are subtitles of the sometimes-heavily-adapted dubbed dialogue rather than a direct translation]], which are highly frowned-upon by fans for obvious reasons.[[/note]] Some fansubbers even include notes in the subtitles that help explain certain cultural references or jokes that might not otherwise be properly understood by a non-native audience.



Occasionally, a dub may even have [[SuperlativeDubbing better actors, performances]], and/or [[{{Woolseyism}} writing]] than the original, though of course this is highly subjective. Commercially, dubs also have a much wider actual reach despite being more expensive to produce (and a non-dubbed title naturally has a smaller reach), simply because dubs have far more venues open to them. A dub can often make or break a show's success.[[note]] The reason for this is that most media gatekeepers especially television refuse any media that is not in the local language. This extends to many official internet portals (particularly Netflix, but also Hulu) as well, where even ''if'' multiple languages are available (and they often are), viewers of the dubbed version typically outnumber viewers of the subtitled original... at least for cartoons.[[/note]]

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Occasionally, a dub may even have [[SuperlativeDubbing [[SugarWiki/SuperlativeDubbing better actors, performances]], and/or [[{{Woolseyism}} writing]] than the original, though of course this is highly subjective. Commercially, dubs also have a much wider actual reach despite being more expensive to produce (and a non-dubbed title naturally has a smaller reach), simply because dubs have far more venues open to them. A dub can often make or break a show's success.[[note]] The reason for this is that most media gatekeepers especially television refuse any media that is not in the local language. This extends to many official internet portals (particularly Netflix, but also Hulu) as well, where even ''if'' multiple languages are available (and they often are), viewers of the dubbed version typically outnumber viewers of the subtitled original... at least for cartoons.[[/note]]
12th Nov '16 4:35:36 PM Josef5678
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A common argument viewers of subs espouse is the justification that familiarity with the original spoken language helps non-native readers comprehend specific vocabulary and quirks. While there is something to be said for this method as at least popular informal-spoken media can give a basic primer in what the language sounds like, as [[https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-11/.108319 this article]] points out, the differences can be quite large between say, formal and informal Japanese in anime. Being staged and pre-recorded, the dialogue is artificially more deliberate and sharp than what you'll here on the street, comparing the difference between a professional work environment and a group of teenagers speaking in fast slang in school.

to:

A common argument viewers of subs espouse is the justification that familiarity with the original spoken language helps non-native readers comprehend specific vocabulary and quirks. While there is something to be said for this method as at least popular informal-spoken media can give a basic primer in what the language sounds like, as [[https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-11/.108319 this article]] points out, the differences can be quite large between say, formal and informal Japanese in anime. Being staged and pre-recorded, the dialogue is artificially more deliberate and sharp than what you'll here hear on the street, comparing the difference between a professional work environment and a group of teenagers speaking in fast slang in school.
12th Nov '16 7:59:03 AM darkabomination
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Added DiffLines:

A common argument viewers of subs espouse is the justification that familiarity with the original spoken language helps non-native readers comprehend specific vocabulary and quirks. While there is something to be said for this method as at least popular informal-spoken media can give a basic primer in what the language sounds like, as [[https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-11/.108319 this article]] points out, the differences can be quite large between say, formal and informal Japanese in anime. Being staged and pre-recorded, the dialogue is artificially more deliberate and sharp than what you'll here on the street, comparing the difference between a professional work environment and a group of teenagers speaking in fast slang in school.
31st May '16 8:43:34 AM XanderVJ
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One of the oldest {{Internet Backdraft}}s for fans of imported foreign films and TV shows -- especially {{anime}} fans -- is the argument over whether to subtitle the program or dub it into the audience's native language.

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One of the oldest {{Internet Backdraft}}s for fans of imported foreign films and TV shows -- in America, especially {{anime}} fans -- is the argument over whether to subtitle the program or dub it into the audience's native language.
18th May '16 2:38:31 PM Reymma
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The dire straits of the anime industry in North America have forced most licensors to no longer produce dub tracks for titles that are perceived to sell to a niche audience due to several companies taking heavy losses on titles like this after finding that the existence of a dub track is not enough of a sales boost to cover the cost of commissioning one (the textbook examples are Creator/{{Geneon}} and Creator/{{ADV|Films}}; Geneon shut down completely, and ADV had to reorganize itself into smaller companies). This has managed to light the fire in the sub vs. dub wars all over again, though nowadays it is dub fans that are seeing a lack of content. This has led to a [[HypocriticalHumor strange reversal in the old debate]] "hardcore" dub fans (hardly a majority, but loud nonetheless) insist that all shows should have a dub or they will not support them; sub fans and more casual dub fans will tell them to either accept that shows with less appeal will get sub-only releases or they aren't going to be licensed at all.

to:

The dire straits of the anime industry in North America have forced most licensors to no longer produce dub tracks for titles that are perceived to sell to a niche audience due to several companies taking heavy losses on titles like this after finding that the existence of a dub track is not enough of a sales boost to cover the cost of commissioning one (the textbook examples are Creator/{{Geneon}} and Creator/{{ADV|Films}}; Geneon shut down completely, and ADV had to reorganize itself into smaller companies). This has managed to light the fire in the sub vs. dub wars all over again, though nowadays it is dub fans that are seeing a lack of content. This has led to a [[HypocriticalHumor [[{{Irony}} strange reversal in the old debate]] "hardcore" dub fans (hardly a majority, but loud nonetheless) insist that all shows should have a dub or they will not support them; sub fans and more casual dub fans will tell them to either accept that shows with less appeal will get sub-only releases or they aren't going to be licensed at all.
10th Apr '16 9:11:30 PM Josef5678
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Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom. Then again, some fans watch raw productions because [[TheyJustDidntCare they just don't care]] if they can or can't understand what's being said.

to:

Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom. Then again, some fans watch raw productions because [[TheyJustDidntCare they just don't care]] care if they can or can't understand what's being said.
10th Apr '16 5:42:24 PM DENelson83
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Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom.

to:

Of course, some fans prefer to stay out of the sub vs. dub debate altogether by choosing to just watch the raw production with the original-language audio and without the subtitles. But since this requires complete fluency in the other language, it isn't an option for 99% of whatever fandom. Then again, some fans watch raw productions because [[TheyJustDidntCare they just don't care]] if they can or can't understand what's being said.
22nd Feb '16 4:42:20 AM PF
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On the other hand, dubbing a program means that the audience doesn't have to read the dialogue while watching the show. While this is frequently used as an insult to the intelligence of dub-watchers, subtitlers will often trim dialogue due to subtitle line-length restrictions (this is not just a translation issue; turn on the native language subtitles for a DVD, and you'll probably see subtitle abbreviation, spanning from noticeable to a horrendously significant degree. If an example is necessary, try ''Film/RealGenius''). Additionally, bored fansubbers will occasionally decide to [[SpiceUpTheSubtitles alter the script to make it more "adult"]], resulting in the depressingly common phenomenon of a show that is ridiculously, blatantly {{kodomomuke}} ([[YouAreTheTranslatedForeignWord i.e., "for kids"]]) containing jarringly out-of-place sex jokes and profanity in its fansubs.[[note]] And then the FanDumb who don't know any better genuinely believe that that's the way the show is "supposed" to be, and go berserk when said show gets a more faithful official translation that doesn't have all the profanity, starting up this tired debate all over again.[[/note]]

to:

On the other hand, dubbing a program means that the audience doesn't have to read the dialogue while watching the show. While this is frequently used as an insult to the intelligence of dub-watchers, dub watchers, subtitlers will often trim dialogue due to subtitle line-length restrictions (this is not just a translation issue; turn on the native language subtitles for a DVD, and you'll probably see subtitle abbreviation, spanning from noticeable to a horrendously significant degree. If an example is necessary, try ''Film/RealGenius''). Additionally, bored fansubbers will occasionally decide to [[SpiceUpTheSubtitles alter the script to make it more "adult"]], resulting in the depressingly common phenomenon of a show that is ridiculously, blatantly {{kodomomuke}} ([[YouAreTheTranslatedForeignWord i.e., "for kids"]]) containing jarringly out-of-place sex jokes and profanity in its fansubs.[[note]] And then the FanDumb This becomes a problem when there are people who don't know any better genuinely believe that that's this is the way the show is "supposed" to be, and go berserk when said show gets a more faithful official translation that doesn't have all the profanity, starting up this tired debate all over again.profanity.[[/note]]
4th Feb '16 11:45:05 AM Josef5678
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Interesting to note though is that French productions (such as LiveActionTV/FortBoyard) still get a dub in The Netherlands.

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Interesting to note though is that French productions (such as LiveActionTV/FortBoyard) Series/FortBoyard) still get a dub in The Netherlands.
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