History Main / SkillGateCharacters

14th Apr '17 10:26:06 PM spaceace72
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** Soldier: 76 can be this for players used to more traditional FPS games, with his no-frills but easy to use special moves, comfortably strong long-range gun and an alt fire that shoots missiles; but seasoned players know he falls apart close-range and his missiles and healing move both have long cooldown times, allowing them to fight back against a lone 76. A smart 76 player operates with the team, uses his heal when ever he can, and gets around the enemy team to use his Ultimate from behind.
23rd Mar '17 1:23:30 PM CyberController
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* The [[FanNickname "Giantdad"]] of ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' is a notable example from [[Genre/RolePlayingGame a genre]] where "characters" have to be built level-by-level and piece-by-piece. The Giantdad is a notoriously [[MinMax Min-Maxed]] build that foregoes weapon scaling to stuff more points into Endurance and Vitality, and wearing gear that [[LightningBruiser allows them to fast-roll despite wearing ridiculously heavy armor]]. Scary on paper, but their attacks are rather predictable and easy to parry or avoid for those who get the timing down, and the dreaded [[CycleOfHurting stunlock]] from their trademark [[{{BFS}} zweihander]] can be [[LagCancel toggle-canceled]] out of. MemeticMutation has since dubbed the Giantdad the Slayer of [[strike:new players]] [[InsistentTerminology Casuls]], [[MemeticBadass constantly challenging his victims to "git gud."]]

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* The [[FanNickname "Giantdad"]] of ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' is a notable example from [[Genre/RolePlayingGame [[RolePlayingGame a genre]] where "characters" have to be built level-by-level and piece-by-piece. The Giantdad is a notoriously [[MinMax Min-Maxed]] build that foregoes weapon scaling to stuff more points into Endurance and Vitality, and wearing gear that [[LightningBruiser allows them to fast-roll despite wearing ridiculously heavy armor]]. Scary on paper, but their attacks are rather predictable and easy to parry or avoid for those who get the timing down, and the dreaded [[CycleOfHurting stunlock]] from their trademark [[{{BFS}} zweihander]] can be [[LagCancel toggle-canceled]] out of. MemeticMutation has since dubbed the Giantdad the Slayer of [[strike:new players]] [[InsistentTerminology Casuls]], [[MemeticBadass constantly challenging his victims to "git gud."]]
4th Mar '17 9:26:06 AM nombretomado
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* High acceleration characters/karts in ''MarioKart Wii'', in contrast to the earlier games where they were arguably the most useful overall. This is because they have high handling and acceleration stats, and hence can initially do well due to recovering from item hits and are easier to handle for newer players. But in higher level play (anything above about 100%), they just get overtaken by all the high speed karts and can't do as well as far as world records/time trial goes.

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* High acceleration characters/karts in ''MarioKart Wii'', ''VideoGame/MarioKartWii'', in contrast to the earlier games where they were arguably the most useful overall. This is because they have high handling and acceleration stats, and hence can initially do well due to recovering from item hits and are easier to handle for newer players. But in higher level play (anything above about 100%), they just get overtaken by all the high speed karts and can't do as well as far as world records/time trial goes.



29th Jan '17 8:22:06 PM Loekman3
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* The ''AgeOfMythology Titans Expansion'' introduces the Titan-worshiping Atlanteans. On paper, they seem like a massive GameBreaker faction, with extremely efficient (albeit expensive) villagers, multi-use god powers (where the other three factions only get one of each), and the ability to instantly promote human soldiers into anti-"myth unit" heroes for a price. (Beginning players will appreciate how easy their economy is to manage, in particular.) However, they've got a few less desirable traits (slow-building Town Centers, limited siege options, vulnerability to rushing) that leaves them about even with other civilizations at the high levels of play.

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* The ''AgeOfMythology ''VideoGame/AgeOfMythology Titans Expansion'' introduces the Titan-worshiping Atlanteans. On paper, they seem like a massive GameBreaker faction, with extremely efficient (albeit expensive) villagers, multi-use god powers (where the other three factions only get one of each), and the ability to instantly promote human soldiers into anti-"myth unit" heroes for a price. (Beginning players will appreciate how easy their economy is to manage, in particular.) However, they've got a few less desirable traits (slow-building Town Centers, limited siege options, vulnerability to rushing) that leaves them about even with other civilizations at the high levels of play.
13th Jan '17 8:56:22 AM Scabbard
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* (* Eddy is an interesting case, because of two reasons. One is that until mastered, most players will do better with him if they just employ ButtonMashing and joystick waggling. The other is that it takes a disproportionately high degree of skill to beat button mashing Eddy players ''consistently''. Even ''experts'' that are below master caliber lose to button mashing Eddy players on occasion. This tends to start a lot of {{Trash Talk}}ing. The ''Tekken'' trash talking FAQ even mentions one of the prime reasons to trash talk is "You just lost to some psychotic crack-addicted button-mashing Eddy player and you feel it is your duty to comment on that particular playstyle."

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* (* *** Eddy is an interesting case, because of two reasons. One is that until mastered, most players will do better with him if they just employ ButtonMashing and joystick waggling. The other is that it takes a disproportionately high degree of skill to beat button mashing Eddy players ''consistently''. Even ''experts'' that are below master caliber lose to button mashing Eddy players on occasion. This tends to start a lot of {{Trash Talk}}ing. The ''Tekken'' trash talking FAQ even mentions one of the prime reasons to trash talk is "You just lost to some psychotic crack-addicted button-mashing Eddy player and you feel it is your duty to comment on that particular playstyle."
21st Dec '16 1:16:57 AM GigaHand
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* The [[FanNickname "Giantdad"]] of ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' is a notable example from [[Genre/RolePlayingGame a genre]] where "characters" have to be built level-by-level and piece-by-piece. The Giantdad is a notoriously [[MinMax Min-Maxed]] build that foregoes weapon scaling to stuff more points into Endurance and Vitality, and wearing gear that [[LightningBruiser allows them to fast-roll despite wearing ridiculously heavy armor]]. Scary on paper, but their attacks are rather predictable and easy to parry or avoid for those who get the timing down, and the dreaded [[CycleOfHurting stunlock]] from their trademark [[{{BFS}} zweihander]] can be [[LagCancel toggle-canceled]] out of. MemeticMutation has since dubbed the Giantdad the Slayer of [[strike:new players]] [[InsistentTerminology Casuals]], [[MemeticBadass constantly challenging his victims to "git gud."]]

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* The [[FanNickname "Giantdad"]] of ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' is a notable example from [[Genre/RolePlayingGame a genre]] where "characters" have to be built level-by-level and piece-by-piece. The Giantdad is a notoriously [[MinMax Min-Maxed]] build that foregoes weapon scaling to stuff more points into Endurance and Vitality, and wearing gear that [[LightningBruiser allows them to fast-roll despite wearing ridiculously heavy armor]]. Scary on paper, but their attacks are rather predictable and easy to parry or avoid for those who get the timing down, and the dreaded [[CycleOfHurting stunlock]] from their trademark [[{{BFS}} zweihander]] can be [[LagCancel toggle-canceled]] out of. MemeticMutation has since dubbed the Giantdad the Slayer of [[strike:new players]] [[InsistentTerminology Casuals]], Casuls]], [[MemeticBadass constantly challenging his victims to "git gud."]]
12th Dec '16 10:54:18 PM X2X
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* ''VideoGame/{{Blazblue}}''
** Ragna the Bloodedge: Maybe it's a side effect of being the main character? He has relatively straightforward (by [=BlazBlue=] standards) combos, strong offence, an easy-to-understand Drive mechanic, and a reversal that begs to be spammed. He's easy to understand but difficult to succeed with at the highest levels of play, as his neutral, mix-up, defence, setplay, etc., isn't outstanding (or even existent in some cases), making him the most noticeable Skill Gate character in the game.
** Jin Kisaragi: Unlike his brother, Jin is typically considered one of the game's best characters. Something of a {{ShotoClone}}, he not only has a strong projectile game, but the tools to deal with every situation, multiple reversals, safe offence, etc. But most new players crumple and die against [[MemeticMutation ice car]] spam, whereas competent players can easily counter this kind of flailing. Put Jin in the right hands, however, and he's actually quite lethal.
*** As of ''CP'', most of the "Ice Thundercats" are gone, though the trope still applies. Despite being a classic Skill Gate character, Jin is once again topping tier lists.

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* ''VideoGame/{{Blazblue}}''
''VideoGame/BlazBlue''
** Ragna the Bloodedge: Maybe it's a side effect of being the main character? He has relatively straightforward (by [=BlazBlue=] ''[=BlazBlue=]'' standards) combos, strong offence, an easy-to-understand Drive mechanic, and a reversal that begs to be spammed. He's easy to understand but difficult to succeed with at the highest levels of play, as his neutral, mix-up, defence, setplay, etc., isn't outstanding (or even existent in some cases), making him the most noticeable Skill Gate character Character in the game.
** Jin Kisaragi: Unlike his brother, Jin is typically considered one of the game's best characters. Something of a {{ShotoClone}}, {{Shotoclone}}, he not only has a strong projectile game, but the tools to deal with every situation, multiple reversals, safe offence, etc. But most new players crumple and die against [[MemeticMutation ice car]] spam, whereas competent players can easily counter this kind of flailing. Put Jin in the right hands, however, and he's actually quite lethal.
*** As of ''CP'', ''[[VideoGame/BlazBlueChronophantasma CP]]'', most of the "Ice Thundercats" are gone, though the trope still applies. Despite being a classic Skill Gate character, Character, Jin is once again topping tier lists.



** Iron Tager has become this in ''VideoGame/BlazBlueContinuumShift''. His incredible power coupled with the fact that he is much easier to use than he looks makes him widely hated by new VideoGame/BlazBlue players. Expert players who can keep him at arm's length and not get magnetized, however, can skillfully dissect him. Ironically, he was firmly on the Difficult side of DifficultButAwesome in ''[[VideoGame/BlazBlueCalamityTrigger Calamity Trigger]]''.
*** It has reached a point where people at low levels are RageQuit ing on the VS screen because of their opponent picking Tager.

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** Iron Tager has become this in ''VideoGame/BlazBlueContinuumShift''. His incredible power coupled with the fact that he is much easier to use than he looks makes him widely hated by new VideoGame/BlazBlue ''[=BlazBlue=]'' players. Expert players who can keep him at arm's length and not get magnetized, however, can skillfully dissect him. Ironically, he was firmly on the Difficult side of DifficultButAwesome in ''[[VideoGame/BlazBlueCalamityTrigger Calamity Trigger]]''.
*** It has reached a point where people at low levels are RageQuit ing {{Rage Quit}}ting on the VS screen because of their opponent picking Tager.



* Bob in ''VideoGame/FightersDestiny'' is a MightyGlacier with emphasis on the "mighty"; a very large portion of his move list consists of outright {{One Hit Kill}}s, and with the way the game implements its TwoAndAHalfD, it is extraordinarily hard to get around your opponent, meaning movement speed is largely a non-issue. Because of this, he can seem very overpowered to new players. The problem is that in this game, ''every character has at least one OneHitKill move'', and they can be blocked and/or dodged - and when an opponent starts doing this, you start to realize that Bob's moves are all very, very slow. Even if Bob does land a hit, one of the things balancing OneHitKill moves in this game is that HP is not the deciding factor in a match: it's points. Seven points are needed to win, and {{One Hit Kill}}s are worth three - and Bob's special finisher, the only thing worth four points, is extraordinarily hard to execute.

* ''VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom2'' had an entire Skill Gate ''Team''--Appropriately [[FanNickname nicknamed]] "Team {{Scrub}}", the team consists of [[ComicBook/XMen Cable, Sentinel]] (two of the best characters in the game), and VideoGame/CaptainCommando (for his Captain Corridor assist). It revolves mainly around abusing Cable's zoning game in conjunction with Sentinel's Sentinel Horse assist to keep them away and Captain Corridor to cover anyone who gets too close, as well as abusing safe [=DHCs=] with Sentinel whenever the team gets enough meter. It's a great team to use to understand the fundamentals of the game (proper assist calling, safe [=DHCs=], proper meter usage) but ultimately pales in comparison to some of the other top tier teams in the game (like the infamous Magneto/Sentinel-or-Storm/Psylocke team).

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* Bob in ''VideoGame/FightersDestiny'' is a MightyGlacier with emphasis on the "mighty"; a very large portion of his move list consists of outright {{One Hit Kill}}s, [[OneHitKill One-Hit Kills]], and with the way the game implements its TwoAndAHalfD, it is extraordinarily hard to get around your opponent, meaning movement speed is largely a non-issue. Because of this, he can seem very overpowered to new players. The problem is that in this game, ''every character has at least one OneHitKill One-Hit Kill move'', and they can be blocked and/or dodged - and when an opponent starts doing this, you start to realize that Bob's moves are all very, very slow. Even if Bob does land a hit, one of the things balancing OneHitKill One-Hit Kill moves in this game is that HP is not the deciding factor in a match: it's points. Seven points are needed to win, and {{One Hit Kill}}s One-Hit Kills are worth three - and Bob's special finisher, the only thing worth four points, is extraordinarily hard to execute.

* ''VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom2'' had an entire Skill Gate ''Team''--Appropriately ''Team''--appropriately [[FanNickname nicknamed]] "Team {{Scrub}}", {{Scrub}}," the team consists of [[ComicBook/XMen Cable, Sentinel]] (two of the best characters in the game), and VideoGame/CaptainCommando (for his Captain Corridor assist). It revolves mainly around abusing Cable's zoning game in conjunction with Sentinel's Sentinel Horse assist to keep them away and Captain Corridor to cover anyone who gets too close, as well as abusing safe [=DHCs=] with Sentinel whenever the team gets enough meter. It's a great team to use to understand the fundamentals of the game (proper assist calling, safe [=DHCs=], proper meter usage) but ultimately pales in comparison to some of the other top tier top-tier teams in the game (like the infamous Magneto/Sentinel-or-Storm/Psylocke team).



** Once past the Skill Gate of average play, Frank tends to be a monster in high levels and tournaments, where he's never around except as an annoying assist with his shopping cart, and during tag combos designed to land two or more [[LimitBreak Supers]] that also power up the range of his normal moves with his camera.

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** Once past the Skill Gate of average play, Frank tends to be a monster in high levels and tournaments, where he's never around except as an annoying assist Assist with his shopping cart, and during tag combos designed to land two or more [[LimitBreak Supers]] Hypers]] that also power up the range of his normal moves with his camera.



* Deidara in ''VideoGame/{{Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2}}''. His power consists exclusively of sculpting animals out of explosive clay and allowing them to move like the animals they're based on. There is a particular long-range combo where he throws clay birds of increasing size and intensity, culminating in him creating a gigantic one, riding on it, and ramming it into the opponent. What makes this combo difficult for people not prepared for it is that Deidara goes up into the air bit by bit, becoming unreachable towards the end of the combo; and Deidara moves across the field for that last strike. However, this can be dismantled through good timing with support characters or by using the Ninja Dash to get right up to Deidara when he begins the combo, because the Ninja Dash will outprioritize Deidara's clay birds.

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* Deidara in ''VideoGame/{{Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2}}''.''VideoGame/NarutoShippudenUltimateNinjaStorm2''. His power consists exclusively of sculpting animals out of explosive clay and allowing them to move like the animals they're based on. There is a particular long-range combo where he throws clay birds of increasing size and intensity, culminating in him creating a gigantic one, riding on it, and ramming it into the opponent. What makes this combo difficult for people not prepared for it is that Deidara goes up into the air bit by bit, becoming unreachable towards the end of the combo; and Deidara moves across the field for that last strike. However, this can be dismantled through good timing with support characters or by using the Ninja Dash to get right up to Deidara when he begins the combo, because the Ninja Dash will outprioritize Deidara's clay birds.



** Yu Narukami: Designed to be a 2D fighter {{ShotoClone}} in the style of [[VideoGame/GuiltyGear Ky Kiske]], as well as beginner-friendly (particularly to players who are new to fighting games) -- he has attacks and specials to deal with every situation, strong offence and defence, several reversal options (including one that's [[GameBreaker difficult to punish regardless of skill level]], due to how safe it is), and a complete lack of weaknesses. His damage is absurd in a game known for high damage, while his mix-up options are seemingly never-ending in a game that isn't focused on mix-up... and that's where this trope backfires: despite being the Skill Gate Character, Narukami is lethal even in the hands of a relative novice.

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** Yu Narukami: Designed to be a 2D fighter {{ShotoClone}} {{Shotoclone}} in the style of [[VideoGame/GuiltyGear Ky Kiske]], as well as beginner-friendly (particularly to players who are new to fighting games) -- he has attacks and specials to deal with every situation, strong offence and defence, several reversal options (including one that's [[GameBreaker difficult to punish regardless of skill level]], due to how safe it is), and a complete lack of weaknesses. His damage is absurd in a game known for high damage, while his mix-up options are seemingly never-ending in a game that isn't focused on mix-up... and that's where this trope backfires: despite being the Skill Gate Character, Narukami is lethal even in the hands of a relative novice.



* From the ''VideoGame/SoulSeries'', the nunchaku-wielders (Li Long and later Maxi) have somewhat erratic attack patterns and several easy-to-abuse moves that trap the opponent in them for multiple hits. For maxi, this is thanks to the Pure Soul Loop system. Pure Soul Loop allows you successfully button-mash forever, but at the same time, Maxi can only move in a straight line while combo-ing in general. Thus, stepping around him makes all the difference. Even still, Maxi has really high base attack, so Pure Soul Loop combos only have to succeed but a few times.

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* From the ''VideoGame/SoulSeries'', ''VideoGame/{{Soul|Series}}'' series, the nunchaku-wielders (Li Long and later Maxi) have somewhat erratic attack patterns and several easy-to-abuse moves that trap the opponent in them for multiple hits. For maxi, this is thanks to the Pure Soul Loop system. Pure Soul Loop allows you successfully button-mash forever, but at the same time, Maxi can only move in a straight line while combo-ing in general. Thus, stepping around him makes all the difference. Even still, Maxi has really high base attack, so Pure Soul Loop combos only have to succeed but a few times.



** [[TheScrappy Necrid]] is generally considered this by those that don't call him a broken character because they think he's a GameBreaker. Necrid's movelist and gameplay tends to revolve entirely around {{Whoring}}, which means he can often get perfects against new players by simply pressing a button over and over. People that understand spacing and guard impacts, however, will usually curb-stomp Necrid since SpamAttacks are one of the only things his poorly-designed movelist is good for.
** In recent games, Nightmare can be a [[JustForPun nightmare]] for low level play, with his extremely powerful, easy combos and general tankery. He's slow, however, and a pro can Perfect Guard even his least telegraphed moves easily, leaving him completely open to one of the faster (read: all of the) other fighters.

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** [[TheScrappy Necrid]] is generally considered this by those that don't call him a broken character because they think he's a GameBreaker. Necrid's movelist and gameplay tends to revolve entirely around {{Whoring}}, which means he can often get perfects against new players by simply pressing a button over and over. People that understand spacing and guard impacts, Guard Impacts, however, will usually curb-stomp Necrid since SpamAttacks are one of the only things his poorly-designed movelist is good for.
** In recent games, Nightmare can be a [[JustForPun nightmare]] for low level low-level play, with his extremely powerful, easy combos and general tankery. He's slow, however, and a pro can Perfect Guard even his least telegraphed moves easily, leaving him completely open to one of the faster (read: all of the) other fighters.



** Zangief from ''VideoGame/StreetFighter IV''. He has a spammable spinning attack that average/new players will get creamed against, but it is severely punishable by expert players.

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** Zangief from ''VideoGame/StreetFighter IV''.''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV''. He has a spammable spinning attack that average/new players will get creamed against, but it is severely punishable by expert players.



** The {{Shoto Clone}}s are arguably an example of the "bell curve" type of SkillGateCharacters in ''IV''. They are easy to use and get into, but tend to be very predictable to fight for average players. But they get better after that thanks to good players abusing their normal attacks with quick recovery...
** Vega's speed and claw range would overwhelm new players until they learned his fairly simple patterns. He gets better in expert play though, because of the skill and timing required to perform his DifficultButAwesome tricks, such as the safe claw dive/grab mixup in ''II'' and ''IV'', and his infinite combo in the ''Alpha'' series.

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** The {{Shoto Clone}}s {{Shotoclone}}s are arguably an example of the "bell curve" type of SkillGateCharacters Skill Gate Character in ''IV''. They are easy to use and get into, but tend to be very predictable to fight for average players. But they get better after that thanks to good players abusing their normal attacks with quick recovery...
** Vega's speed and claw range would overwhelm new players until they learned his fairly simple patterns. He gets better in expert play though, because of the skill and timing required to perform his DifficultButAwesome tricks, such as the safe claw dive/grab mixup mix-up in ''II'' ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterII II]]'' and ''IV'', ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterIV IV]]'', and his infinite combo in the ''Alpha'' ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterAlpha Alpha]]'' series.



*** Link was a very easy character to use at low-level play, with multiple killers that are easy to hit on slower-moving opponents and a powerful shield grab. Once players learn how to better exploit the speed and mobility of the better characters, his value drops dramatically due to his slow speed and attacks. Young Link, who appears to be a mostly worse version of Link at first glance, is marginally better than his adult form as he trades off reach for speed.
*** Also in ''Melee'', in an odd twist, Princess Peach was evidently ''intended'' to be this; official guides and the in game trophies made much ado about how she is "good for beginners" due to her fabulous recovery skills, but was theoretically held back by her "weak moves." In practice, however, she's a powerhouse in the air and has an all around versatile moveset (on top of aforementioned recovery skills). She's been sitting pretty in the tier lists basically since release, and performs well both in low and high level play.
*** Kirby is considered practically unusable in high-level play, but his gimmicky, fun moveset appeals to and is generally easy to break down for new players.

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*** Link [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Link]] was a very easy character to use at low-level play, with multiple killers that are easy to hit on slower-moving opponents and a powerful shield grab. Once players learn how to better exploit the speed and mobility of the better characters, his value drops dramatically due to his slow speed and attacks. Young Link, [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Young]] [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaMajorasMask Link]], who appears to be a mostly worse version of Link at first glance, is marginally better than his adult form as he trades off reach for speed.
*** Also in ''Melee'', in an odd twist, [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Princess Peach Peach]] was evidently ''intended'' to be this; official guides and the in game trophies Trophies made much ado about how she is "good for beginners" due to her fabulous recovery skills, but was theoretically held back by her "weak moves." In practice, however, she's a powerhouse in the air and has an all around versatile moveset (on top of aforementioned recovery skills). She's been sitting pretty in the tier lists basically since release, and performs well both in low low- and high level high-level play.
*** Kirby Franchise/{{Kirby}} is considered practically unusable in high-level play, but his gimmicky, fun moveset appeals to and is generally easy to break down for new players.



*** Pit, who is neither a GlassCannon nor a MightyGlacier. Being based on Cupid, Pit is annoying because he uses speedy arrows that cause interruption to make the lives of decent players miserable, and touching him, let alone gimping him, can be made bothersome what with him being able to ''fly''. Aside from that, however, Pit has no glaring strengths and slightly sub-par melee (although said melee has multiple multi-hit attacks so it can't be all bad).
*** Another example is Zelda, who has an amazing projectile, kills at ridiculously low percents, and outprioritizes everything... until you realize that her projectile can be spotdodged/powershielded/whatever on reaction. Then you realize her grab is slower than reaction time meaning she has no real answers to a shielding opponent, and suddenly her approach game becomes awful. Then you realize that her slow grab combined with slow moves out of shield means bad punishment and you get the idea. Furthermore, multi-hit moves are becoming [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo#t=60s less effective]]. This in turn makes characters that depended on them Skill Gate Characters.
*** Some players consider Ike this as well. He's slow and cannot take as much punishment as the other {{Mighty Glacier}}s but he hits like a freight train, his moves are hard to interrupt, and his attacks have a wide reach. Again, he is a case of: stomps newbies, walked all over by more skilled opponents, DEADLY in skilled hands.

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*** Pit, [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]], who is neither a GlassCannon nor a MightyGlacier. Being based on Cupid, Pit is annoying because he uses speedy arrows that cause interruption to make the lives of decent players miserable, and touching him, let alone gimping him, can be made bothersome what with him being able to ''fly''. Aside from that, however, Pit has no glaring strengths and slightly sub-par melee (although said melee has multiple multi-hit attacks so it can't be all bad).
*** Another example is Zelda, [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Zelda]], who has an amazing projectile, kills at ridiculously low percents, and outprioritizes everything... until you realize that her projectile can be spotdodged/powershielded/whatever on reaction. Then you realize her grab is slower than reaction time meaning she has no real answers to a shielding opponent, and suddenly her approach game becomes awful. Then you realize that her slow grab combined with slow moves out of shield means bad punishment and you get the idea. Furthermore, multi-hit moves are becoming [[http://www.[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo#t=60s less effective]]. effective.]] This in turn makes characters that depended on them Skill Gate Characters.
*** Some players consider Ike [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Ike]] this as well. He's slow and cannot take as much punishment as the other {{Mighty Glacier}}s but he hits like a freight train, his moves are hard to interrupt, and his attacks have a wide reach. Again, he is a case of: stomps newbies, walked all over by more skilled opponents, DEADLY in skilled hands.



*** Little Mac, seen almost constantly online because of his speed, power, and [[LimitBreak KO Uppercut]]. However, if he gets hit into the air even once, which is one of the first things starting competitive players learn how to do, he's finished, because he has the worst aerial attacks [[GlassCannon and recovery]] in the game. Using him at a high level [[DifficultButAwesome is still possible, but it requires great precision]], using all the tools at his disposal (including the [[ImmuneToFlinching Super]] [[NoSell Armor]] he gets only for a few frames during his Smash Attacks) to avoid getting hit at all and keep the upper hand pretty much all the time, since if he gets hit off the stage he's pretty done for.
*** Lucina, a MovesetClone of Marth has attacks that deal consistent damage, as she lacks a sweetspot. She deals more damage than Marth's non-sweetspot attacks, but less damage than his sweet-spot attacks. Therefore, Lucina is used to learn the gist of Marth, and players can then learn Marth's mechanics. She performs better with lower-level players due to her consistency, but at higher skill-levels, Marth is favored because with proper spacing he gets greater rewards from the same playstyle.
*** Charizard is another example. Its Flare Blitz attack is a strong, fast and damaging flaming tackle that covers a lot of distance. The move on its own is devastating against inexperienced players, but as the move is telegraphed and deals damage and recoil to Charizard itself, better players can easily see it coming and avoid it (by shielding or dodging).
*** Bowser. He's always been one of the hardest-hitting characters in the series and the single heaviest and most durable character. In addition, while he was a MightyGlacier with poor range in previous games, ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' buffs his speed and range and makes him into a genuine LightningBruiser. As such, Bowser is quite easy to use and can defeat inexperienced players with ease, but can't keep up at higher levels, where many of the faster characters can keep him at bay with lengthy combos (one of his biggest weaknesses due to his size and weight, no pun intended). However, he's more viable than in previous games, and similar to the ''Brawl'' version of Ike, he can be used quite effectively by a skilled player.
** Pikachu has slowly diminished into this as the games progressed. He was widely considered a GameBreaker in ''64'', in part because there was no way to avoid his aerial and anti-air attacks like [[ThatOneAttack Thunder]], which covers a huge column of space above Pikachu's head and does plenty of damage and knockback. This was toned down when air dodging was introduced in ''Melee'', and even more so when air dodging was improved in ''Brawl'', but against opponents who haven't quite mastered that mechanic yet, even a slightly-skilled Pikachu can be ''brutal''.

* ''Videogame/{{Tekken}}''
** Eddy Gordo got this reputation in ''{{Tekken}} 3''. Novice players would enjoy ButtonMashing and the flips and spins he'd do, stymieing most others..except those who figured out his patterns. Or just picked Kuma and smashed him to bits before he could even get in range.
** Eddy is an interesting case, because of two reasons. One is that until mastered, most players will do better with him if they just employ ButtonMashing and joystick waggling. The other is that it takes a disproportionately high degree of skill to beat button mashing Eddy players ''consistently''. Even ''experts'' that are below master caliber lose to button mashing Eddy players on occasion. This tends to start a lot of {{Trash Talk}}ing. The Tekken trash talking FAQ even mentions one of the prime reasons to trash talk is "You just lost to some psychotic crack-addicted button-mashing Eddy player and you feel it is your duty to comment on that particular playstyle."

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*** [[VideoGame/PunchOut Little Mac, Mac]], seen almost constantly online because of his speed, power, and [[LimitBreak KO Uppercut]]. However, if he gets hit into the air even once, which is one of the first things starting competitive players learn how to do, he's finished, because he has the worst aerial attacks [[GlassCannon and recovery]] in the game. Using him at a high level [[DifficultButAwesome is still possible, but it requires great precision]], using all the tools at his disposal (including the [[ImmuneToFlinching Super]] [[NoSell Armor]] he gets only for a few frames during his Smash Attacks) to avoid getting hit at all and keep the upper hand pretty much all the time, since if he gets hit off the stage he's pretty done for.
*** Lucina, [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Lucina]], a MovesetClone of Marth [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Marth]], has attacks that deal consistent damage, as she lacks a sweetspot. She deals more damage than Marth's non-sweetspot attacks, but less damage than his sweet-spot attacks. Therefore, Lucina is used to learn the gist of Marth, and players can then learn Marth's mechanics. She performs better with lower-level players due to her consistency, but at higher skill-levels, Marth is favored because with proper spacing he gets greater rewards from the same playstyle.
*** Charizard [[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Charizard]] is another example. Its Flare Blitz attack is a strong, fast and damaging flaming tackle that covers a lot of distance. The move on its own is devastating against inexperienced players, but as the move is telegraphed and deals damage and recoil to Charizard itself, better players can easily see it coming and avoid it (by shielding or dodging).
*** Bowser.[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Bowser]]. He's always been one of the hardest-hitting characters in the series and the single heaviest and most durable character. In addition, while he was a MightyGlacier with poor range in previous games, ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' buffs his speed and range and makes him into a genuine LightningBruiser. As such, Bowser is quite easy to use and can defeat inexperienced players with ease, but can't keep up at higher levels, where many of the faster characters can keep him at bay with lengthy combos (one of his biggest weaknesses due to his size and weight, no pun intended). However, he's more viable than in previous games, and similar to the ''Brawl'' version of Ike, he can be used quite effectively by a skilled player.
** Pikachu [[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pikachu]] has slowly diminished into this as the games progressed. He was widely considered a GameBreaker in ''64'', in part because there was no way to avoid his aerial and anti-air attacks like [[ThatOneAttack Thunder]], which covers a huge column of space above Pikachu's head and does plenty of damage and knockback. This was toned down when air dodging was introduced in ''Melee'', and even more so when air dodging was improved in ''Brawl'', but against opponents who haven't quite mastered that mechanic yet, even a slightly-skilled Pikachu can be ''brutal''.

* ''Videogame/{{Tekken}}''
''VideoGame/{{Tekken}}''
** Eddy Gordo got this reputation in ''{{Tekken}} ''Tekken 3''. Novice players would enjoy ButtonMashing and the flips and spins he'd do, stymieing most others..others... except those who figured out his patterns. Or just picked Kuma and smashed him to bits before he could even get in range.
** *(* Eddy is an interesting case, because of two reasons. One is that until mastered, most players will do better with him if they just employ ButtonMashing and joystick waggling. The other is that it takes a disproportionately high degree of skill to beat button mashing Eddy players ''consistently''. Even ''experts'' that are below master caliber lose to button mashing Eddy players on occasion. This tends to start a lot of {{Trash Talk}}ing. The Tekken ''Tekken'' trash talking FAQ even mentions one of the prime reasons to trash talk is "You just lost to some psychotic crack-addicted button-mashing Eddy player and you feel it is your duty to comment on that particular playstyle."



* In the ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'' spinoff fighting game ''Touhou Hisoutensoku'', Utsuho Reiuji will tear newbies apart due to her high-priority normal projectiles, full-screen lasers that do big damage, her MightyGlacier traits being partially negated by her long dashes and a basic dial-A combo which takes out 1/4 of your health. Pros will be able to interrupt the long startup of every single move she attempts with any other character, stop her easily predictable approaches, spot all the holes in her blockstrings (none of them are airtight, relying on mixups to succeed) and take her offense apart with well timed attacks. Similarly, Yuyuko Saigyouji can utterly overwhelm newbies with her spam of butterflies and ghosts, but tactically, she has GlassCannon characteristics similar to Utsuho, having rather slow movement and punishable abilities. And Aya Shameimaru's very fast movement, specials and and bullets can seem terrifying, but her bullets have terribly low density, and with some concentration it's possible to predict and counterhit her moves.

* From ''VideoGame/VirtuaFighter'': We have Jacky Bryant. He has high/low attack strings, 360 HurricaneKick sweeps out the ass, god damned [[RapidFireFisticuffs "Lightning Legs"]], and, worst of all, a super-prioritized and super-damaging Deathflip. The drawback? A lot of those moves have a lot of recovery. So, for the player who stays hot on their toes, they can very easily punish these attacks, either with a string of your own, or a guaranteed throw. On a different note, he's also in the same weight class as characters like Akira, Wolf, and Jeffrey, so some of your combos may not fully connect on him.

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* In the ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'' spinoff spin-off fighting game ''Touhou Hisoutensoku'', Utsuho Reiuji will tear newbies apart due to her high-priority normal projectiles, full-screen lasers that do big damage, her MightyGlacier traits being partially negated by her long dashes and a basic dial-A combo which takes out 1/4 of your health. Pros will be able to interrupt the long startup of every single move she attempts with any other character, stop her easily predictable approaches, spot all the holes in her blockstrings (none of them are airtight, relying on mixups to succeed) and take her offense apart with well timed attacks. Similarly, Yuyuko Saigyouji can utterly overwhelm newbies with her spam of butterflies and ghosts, but tactically, she has GlassCannon characteristics similar to Utsuho, having rather slow movement and punishable abilities. And Aya Shameimaru's very fast movement, specials and and bullets can seem terrifying, but her bullets have terribly low density, and with some concentration it's possible to predict and counterhit her moves.

* From ''VideoGame/VirtuaFighter'': We ''VideoGame/VirtuaFighter'', we have Jacky Bryant. He has high/low attack strings, 360 HurricaneKick sweeps out the ass, god damned [[RapidFireFisticuffs "Lightning Legs"]], Legs,"]] and, worst of all, a super-prioritized and super-damaging Deathflip. The drawback? A lot of those moves have a lot of recovery. So, for the player who stays hot on their toes, they can very easily punish these attacks, either with a string of your own, or a guaranteed throw. On a different note, he's also in the same weight class as characters like Akira, Wolf, and Jeffrey, so some of your combos may not fully connect on him.



* ''Videogame/PlanetSide 2'''s Mini Chaingun - a handheld [[GatlingGood Gatling gun]] - has unmatched damage-per-second among light machine guns, can be fitted with an absolutely massive magazine, and has a terrifying firing noise (chuga [=ChuGA=] CHUGA [=BRRRRRrrrrr=]). However, it has a fixed cone-of-fire[[note]]rather than starting with pinpoint accuracy and blooming to uncontrollable ATeamFiring like most [=LMGs=], it starts slightly inaccurate and grows to be... slightly more inaccurate but still controllable, albeit nigh-impossible to headshot with.[[/note]] and a poor BoomHeadshot damage multiplier, meaning that an aware and accurate enemy can peg you in the head with his LMG or assault rifle while you're spewing away at his chest. The signature firing noise (coupled to a fast but not unnoticeable spinup time for maximum fire rate) is also one of the weapons weaknesses. The weapon is very useful for newbie players, and more of an [[AwesomeButImpractical entertaining but not terribly effective weapon]] for pros.

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* ''Videogame/PlanetSide ''VideoGame/PlanetSide 2'''s Mini Chaingun - a handheld [[GatlingGood Gatling gun]] - has unmatched damage-per-second among light machine guns, can be fitted with an absolutely massive magazine, and has a terrifying firing noise (chuga [=ChuGA=] CHUGA [=BRRRRRrrrrr=]). However, it has a fixed cone-of-fire[[note]]rather than starting with pinpoint accuracy and blooming to uncontrollable ATeamFiring like most [=LMGs=], it starts slightly inaccurate and grows to be... slightly more inaccurate but still controllable, albeit nigh-impossible to headshot with.[[/note]] and a poor BoomHeadshot damage multiplier, meaning that an aware and accurate enemy can peg you in the head with his LMG or assault rifle while you're spewing away at his chest. The signature firing noise (coupled to a fast but not unnoticeable spinup time for maximum fire rate) is also one of the weapons weaknesses. The weapon is very useful for newbie players, and more of an [[AwesomeButImpractical entertaining but not terribly effective weapon]] for pros.
7th Dec '16 3:03:44 PM YZQ
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** Mei is another example of this. At lower levels, she is an extremely effective ambush character who can easily eliminate lone or closely grouped players, and thus is seen as extremely annoying to fight against. At higher levels however her weaknesses become more apparent, namely her short range, low damage per second, and ambush tactics being less effective against a closely coordinated team.

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** Mei is another example of this. At lower levels, she is an extremely effective ambush character who can easily eliminate lone or closely grouped players, and thus is seen as extremely annoying to fight against. At However, at higher levels however levels, her weaknesses become more apparent, namely her short range, range main attack, low damage per second, and ambush tactics being less effective against a closely coordinated team. Having said that, a veteran Mei who masters aiming with her icicles is still a menace.
7th Dec '16 2:57:19 PM YZQ
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**Torbjorn: New Torb players can at least rely on his level 2 turret to harass the enemy team (which can now be constructed more quickly due to his faster hammer swing as of the Sombra patch) and throw armor packs on the floor due to him being able to passively generate scrap (added in the same patch). However, new players are often fixated on keeping the turret up at all costs (allowing an enemy team to pick off Torb easily), do not know maps well enough to position the turret to get the maximum effect, rarely ever fight with Torbjorn himself and use Molten Core only to save themselves or the turret. A veteran Torb will know where to place the turret and when to repair/redeploy it, will master Torb's rivet gun to increase his damage output and will know when to activate Molten Core to wipe or repel an entire enemy team.
28th Nov '16 4:53:01 PM MrUnderhill
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** Pikachu has slowly diminished into this as the games progressed. He was essentially a GameBreaker in ''64'', in part because there was no way to avoid his aerial and anti-air attacks like [[ThatOneAttack Thunder]], which covers a huge column of space above Pikachu's head and does plenty of damage and knockback. This was toned down when air dodging was introduced in ''Melee'', and even more so when air dodging was improved in ''Brawl'', but against opponents who haven't quite mastered that mechanic yet, even a slightly-skilled Pikachu can be ''brutal''.

to:

** Pikachu has slowly diminished into this as the games progressed. He was essentially widely considered a GameBreaker in ''64'', in part because there was no way to avoid his aerial and anti-air attacks like [[ThatOneAttack Thunder]], which covers a huge column of space above Pikachu's head and does plenty of damage and knockback. This was toned down when air dodging was introduced in ''Melee'', and even more so when air dodging was improved in ''Brawl'', but against opponents who haven't quite mastered that mechanic yet, even a slightly-skilled Pikachu can be ''brutal''.
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