History Main / SillyRabbitCynicismisforLosers

* SailorMoon: Uranus and Neptune can't seem to get that choosing the more realistic options will only make the end results worse.

* SailorMoon: Uranus and Neptune can't seem to get that making the more realistic chooses will only make the end results worse.

->''"{{Crapsack world}}s and anti-heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge]]. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."''

* In ''OracleOfTao'', Ambrosia at the end of the First Disc (so to speak) heads off for the second world. Unless she bothered to do the romance sidequest (or can get past the Beef Gate of skipping a key romantic scene and heading directly through the entrance without stopping at the vacation town first), the plot requires you to visit Nevras at his castle. If you decide not to, or if you didn't get the memo, the story suddenly gets much darker, most notably in the endings. Basically, the point is, because Ambrosia decided her love life with Nevras was doomed, things got a [[{{Anvilicious}} whole lot worse for her]].

** Jean-Paul Sartre, the key thinker of the movement, wrote that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy, your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villainy are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not have the strength to be a hero. Sartre, however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals]].

* Somewhat common in ''{{Discworld}}'', especially with Rincewind. The guy would be so obviously right in his cynicism...but Twoflower would come out fine anyway, leaving Rincewind looking like an idiot.

[[folder:LiveActionTV]]

* In ''MassEffect'', the more cynical Renegade decisions the PC can make tend to go badly.

* Ian Starshine (and to a lesser extent, Haley as well -- she veered off from this just in time) from ''TheOrderOfTheStick''. Choosing to remain in prison because you think your little girl is being hoodwinked by a calculating, nefarious, deeply undercover mole linked to an EvilOverlord [[spoiler:(Elan?!? The ChaoticGood CloudCuckoolander?!? You're serious, right?)]] is this. In spades. Even having met the guy.

* In the ''StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' episode "A Taste of Armageddon", the Eminian leader insists that peace is impossible and that their 500-year-old simulated war with declared casualties [[WeWillHaveEuthanasiaInTheFuture reporting in to be neatly and cleanly killed]] is the lesser of two evils. [[KirkSummation Kirk insists]] that they can make peace if they just try harder. Kirk helpfully provides them with motivation to do so by shutting down the war computer and [[MortonsFork forcing them to choose]] between real-world messy warfare and swallowing enough pride to find a peaceful solution).

A character is incredibly cynical. They are sporting a nice pair of JadeColoredGlasses, and when the WideEyedIdealist calls them out on it, they are quick to say IDidWhatIHadToDo, or SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids. They are convinced their attitude is more realistic, and that anyone without it is too childish to accomplish anything.

They are wrong. It turns out that their overly cynical attitude can blind them just as easily as an overly idealistic or optimistic attitude can. They turned lazy and missed golden opportunities due to thinking about themselves in the DespairEventHorizon [[YouCantFightFate for all eternity]], thus proving themselves to be just as blind and dogmatic as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily called out for his {{wangst}}, often by the very people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

See also GrumpyBear, or SourSupporter for character types that can fall into this.

!Examples:

[[folder:Literature]]
* In ''PrideAndPrejudice'', Elizabeth's cynical outlook on life allows Wickham to completely dupe her about Darcy's true nature. The irony is that she acted this way in order to avoid being played for a fool, but it just happened in a different way.

* This is what happens to the dwarves at the end of ''[[{{Narnia}}The Last Battle]]'' -- they end up in [[{{Heaven}} Aslan's country]] with everybody else, but they're too cynical to believe it, and manage to delude themselves into believing they're still locked in a dark stable eating rotten food.
* Somewhat common in ''{{Discworld}}'', especially with Rincewind. The guy would be so obviously right in his cynicism...but Twoflower would come out fine anyway, leaving Rincewind looking like an idiot.
* This is part of the entire point of Jean-Paul Sartre's ''NoExit''. At the end of the story, it's implied that the main characters could leave at any time they wished to, but their own character flaws and lack of empathy with each other prevent them from doing so.
* In ''{{Animorphs}}'', the team cynic Marco notes this to Rachel while Jake is out of commission. They need a fast, straightforward plan for a high-risk rescue, and he explains that that's not his territory -- his cynicism makes him too cautious to address that situation, so she needs to lead.

[[folder:Video Games]]
* In ''MassEffect'', the more cynical Renegade decisions the PC can make tend to go badly.
* ''FearEffect'': Royce Glas is the cynical one. Hana Tzu-Vachel is the idealistic one. Glas is treated as the ButtMonkey and TheLancer. Hana is treated as the IronWoobie and TheHero. It probably won't surprise you that the best ending in the first game essentially has Hana winning out without having to shoot Glas.
* ''FinalFantasyVIII'': Squall is a pretty great example of this. In fact, he seems aware that his dark attitude denies him opportunities for (what he thinks would be) brief moments of happiness, but he does it to avoid feeling further pain as a result of the loss of those moments.
* In ''OracleOfTao'', Ambrosia at the end of the First Disc (so to speak) heads off for the second world. Unless she bothered to do the romance sidequest (or can get past the Beef Gate of skipping a key romantic scene and heading directly through the entrance without stopping at the vacation town first), the plot requires you to visit Nevras at his castle. If you decide not to, or if you didn't get the memo, the story suddenly gets much darker, most notably in the endings. Basically, the point is, because Ambrosia decided her love life with Nevras was doomed, things got a [[{{Anvilicious}} whole lot worse for her]].

[[folder:Webcomics]]
* ''Webcomic/GunnerkriggCourt'' in Chapter 29 has Paz, [[TheChewToy of all people]], setting straight Kat (who is at that moment quite disenchanted with the Court after stumbling upon some of its old secrets).
* Ian Starshine (and to a lesser extent, Haley as well -- she veered off from this just in time) from ''TheOrderOfTheStick''. Choosing to remain in prison because you think your little girl is being hoodwinked by a calculating, nefarious, deeply undercover mole linked to an EvilOverlord [[spoiler:(Elan?!? The ChaoticGood CloudCuckoolander?!? You're serious, right?)]] is this. In spades. Even having met the guy.
** By repute, this was also the case for ProperlyParanoid Girard Draketooth. Possibly. Rogue-like types are subject to this, it seems.

[[folder: Real Life]]
* Basically the point of {{Existentialism}}.
** FriedrichNietzsche, despite the association with fatalism, nihilism, anti-idealism and the darkest and edgiest of cynical philosophy, actually wrote against being an extremely skeptical and life-hating nihilist, while suggesting that it's better to just love life to the fullest while living up to your own ideals no matter how [[BlueAndOrangeMorality blue or orange]] they are.

* ''Fear Effect'': Royce Glas is the cynical one. Hana Tzu-Vachel is the idealistic one. Glas is treated as the ButtMonkey and TheLancer. Hana is treated as the IronWoobie and TheHero. It probably won't surprise you that the best ending in the first game essentially has Hana winning out without having to shoot Glas.

* In the ''GreenSkyTrilogy'', the cynical Neric tells [[TheMessiah Raamo]] that Genaa cannot be trusted and is too stepped in Ol-Zhaan privledge to be sympathetic to their plans. Not only does Neric turn out wrong, but Genaa turns out to be [[TheSmartGuy the one with the tactical savvy]] to pull off their scheme.

--->-- ''A poster on the forums for VideoGame/TheSilverLining''

** Jean-Paul Sartre, the key thinker of the movement, wrote that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy,your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villiany are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not have the strength to be a hero. Sartre, however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals]].

* In the ''StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' episode "A Taste of Armageddon", the Eminian leader insists that peace is impossible and that their 500-year-old simulated war with declared casualties [[WeWillHaveEuthanasiaInTheFuture reporting in to be neatly and cleanly killed]] is the lesser of two evils. [[KirkSummation Kirk insists]] that they can make peace if they just try harder (which they are now motivated to do. now that he's shut down the war computer and so forced them to choose between peace and real-world messy warfare).

They are wrong. It turns out that their overly cynical attitude can blind them just as easily as an overly idealistic or optimistic attitude can. They missed golden opportunities due to thinking about themselves in the DespairEventHorizon [[YouCantFightFate for all eternity]] and prove themselves to be just as blind and ignorant as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily called out for his {{wangst}}, often by the people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

This trope is the [[InvertedTrope Inversion]] of SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, showing that being more cynical is not necessarily better. In fact, it can be seen as being just as childish and called out just as easily. This is to show that The SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism does not always stick to one end, but tends to lie somewhere in the middle, and that you need a bit of both to really see the world for what it is. Can be a trait of TheAntiNihilist, and used to deconstruct the NietzscheWannabe mentality.

They are wrong. It turns out that their overly cynical attitude can blind them just as easily as an overly idealistic or optimistic attitude can. They missed golden opportunities due to thinking about themselves in the DespairEventHorizon [[YouCantFightFate for all eternity]] and prove themselves to be just as blind and ignorant as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily called out for his blindness, often by the people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

* Basically the point of {{Existentialism}}. Jean-Paul Sartre, the key thinker of the movement, wrote that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy,your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villiany are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not have the strength to be a hero. Sartre, however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals]].

They are wrong. It turns out that their overly cynical attitude can blind them just as easily as an overly idealistic or optimistic attitude can. They missed golden opportunities due to their attitude and prove themselves to be just as blind and childish as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily called out for his blindness, often by the people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

This trope is the [[InvertedTrope Inversion]] of SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, showing that being more cynical is not necessarily better. In fact, it can be seen as being just as childish and called out just as easily. This is to show that The SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism does not always stick to one end, but tends to lie somewhere in the middle, and that you need a bit of both to really see the world for what it is. Can be a trait of TheAntiNihilist

* ''GunnerkriggCourt'' in Chapter 29 has Paz, [[TheChewToy of all people]], setting straight Kat (who is at that moment quite disenchanted with the Court after stumbling upon some of its old secrets).

* Somewhat common in {{Discworld}}, especially with Rincewind. The guy would be so obviously right in his cynicism...but Twoflower would come out fine anyway, leaving Rincewind looking like an idiot.

* In {{Animorphs}}, the team cynic Marco notes this to Rachel while Jake is out of commission. They need a fast, straightforward plan for a high-risk rescue, and he explains that that's not his territory -- his cynicism makes him too cautious to address that situation, so she needs to lead.

* In OracleOfTao, Ambrosia at the end of the First Disc (so to speak) heads off for the second world. Unless she bothered to do the romance sidequest (or can get past the Beef Gate of skipping a key romantic scene and heading directly through the entrance without stopping at the vacation town first), the plot requires you to visit Nevras at his castle. If you decide not to, or if you didn't get the memo, the story suddenly gets much darker, most notably in the endings. Basically, the point is, because Ambrosia decided her love life with Nevras was doomed, things got a [[{{Anvilicious}} whole lot worse for her]].

* ''GunnerkriggCourt'' in Chapter 29 has Paz, [[TheChewToy of all people]], setting straight Kat, at the moment quite disenchanted with the Court after stumbling upon some of its old secrets.

* Basically the point of {{Existentialism}}. Jean-Paul Sartre, the key thinker of the movement, wrote that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy,your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villiany are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not hav the strength to be a hero. Sartre, however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals]].

* In the ''StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' episode "A Taste of Armageddon", the Eminian leader insists that peace is impossible and that their 500-year-old simulated war with declared casualties [[WeWillHaveEuthanasiaInTheFuture reporting in to be neatly and cleanly killed]] is the lesser of two evils. [[KirkSummation Kirk insists]] that they can make peace if they just try harder (which they are now motivated to do. now that he's shut down the war computer and so forced them to choose between peace and real-world messy warface).

* In the ''StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' episode "A Taste of Armageddon", the Eminian leader insists that peace is impossible and that their 500-year-old simulated war with declared casualties [[WeWillHaveEuthanasiaInTheFuture reporting in to be neatly and cleanly killed]] is the lesser of two evils. [[KirkSummation Kirk insists]] that they can make peace if they just try harder (especially now that he's shut down the war computer and so forced them to choose between peace and real-world messy warface).

[[AC:{{Literature}}]]

[[AC:VideoGames]]

[[AC:{{Webcomics}}]]

[[AC:RealLife]]
* Basically the point of {{Existentialism}}. Jean-Paul Sartre, the key thinker of the movement, wrote that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy,your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villiany are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not hav the strength to be a hero. Sartre, however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals]].

!!!Examples:

[[AC: {{Literature}}]]

[[AC: VideoGames]]

* FInalFantasyVIII: Squall is a pretty great example of this. In fact, he seems aware that his dark attitude denies him opportunities for (what he thinks would be) brief moments of happiness, but he does it to avoid feeling further pain as a result of the loss of those moments.

[[AC: WebComics]]
* ''GunnerkriggCourt'' in Chapter 29 has Paz ([[TheChewToy of all people]]) setting straight Kat, at the moment quite disenchanted with the Court after stumbling upon some of its old secrets.
* Ian Starshine (and to a lesser extent, Haley as well -- she veered off from this just in time) from TheOrderOfTheStick. Choosing to remain in prison because you think your little girl is being hoodwinked by a calculating, nefarious, deeply undercover mole linked to an EvilOverlord [[spoiler: (Elan?!? The ChaoticGood CloudCuckoolander?!? You're serious, right?)]] is this. In spades. Even having met the guy.

[[AC: RealLife]]
* Basically the point of {{Existentialism}}. Sartre, the key thinker of the movement writes that "Existence precedes essence." Basically, you are born, and then you are defined. You are what you make of yourself. If you are a villain, you were not doomed to villainy,your choices made you so. If you are a hero, you were not destined for greatness, it was the combination of your choices that made you that way. Under this philosophy, great heroism and great villiany are both possible by choice. Thus, if you choose to be a Cynic, it proves you do not hav the strength to be a hero. Sartre however, [[{{Hypocrite}} did not always live up to his ideals.]]
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