History Main / RoyallyScrewedUp

22nd Sep '17 12:46:08 PM dlchen145
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* The Habsburg dynasty of Austria, the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, Spain, and various states in Northern Italy was excessively inbred even by the standards of late medieval European royalty, with a tendency towards mental instability as well as a distinctive underbite known as the "Habsburg lip" that got more disfiguring in later generations. The Habsburgs felt that not marrying "ruling houses" was beneath them and were also devout Catholics, meaning that a large part of German and European families were off limits after the Reformation, unless their partners were ready to convert.[[note]] This for instance was the case with Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick, mother of MariaTheresa. [[/note]] To make matters worse, after the Habsburgs split into an Austrian and a Spanish main line after Charles V/Carlos I, the two branches of the family kept trading marriage partners in order to continue to be able to inherit each other's throne should one of them die out. Marrying into the Spanish House of Trastamara in the early 16th century had been a shrewd political move to expand the family's power but a poor choice for genetic health as the pre-Reconquista Spanish houses were already pretty inbred. Even by that low bar, the Trastamaras were noted for their history of oddballs, although the number of truly crazy family members may have been overstated by their enemies.

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* The Habsburg dynasty of Austria, the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, Spain, and various states in Northern Italy was excessively inbred even by the standards of late medieval European royalty, with a tendency towards mental instability as well as a distinctive underbite known as the "Habsburg lip" that got more disfiguring in later generations. The Habsburgs felt that not marrying "ruling houses" was beneath them and were also devout Catholics, meaning that a large part of German and European families were off limits after the Reformation, unless their partners were ready to convert.[[note]] This for instance was the case with Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick, mother of MariaTheresa.UsefulNotes/MariaTheresa. [[/note]] To make matters worse, after the Habsburgs split into an Austrian and a Spanish main line after Charles V/Carlos I, the two branches of the family kept trading marriage partners in order to continue to be able to inherit each other's throne should one of them die out. Marrying into the Spanish House of Trastamara in the early 16th century had been a shrewd political move to expand the family's power but a poor choice for genetic health as the pre-Reconquista Spanish houses were already pretty inbred. Even by that low bar, the Trastamaras were noted for their history of oddballs, although the number of truly crazy family members may have been overstated by their enemies.
19th Sep '17 11:13:23 AM Silverblade2
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* Also of Marvel, SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} and his offspring formed a ComicBook/HouseOfM in the miniseries of the same name, but in a subversion (aversion?), the royal family seemed pretty well-balanced. In the [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate line]], however, the same 'royal family' is... Well, let's just say they've got ''problems''. General explanation? Big Daddy M's crazy-genes, plus power-induced madness.

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* Also of Marvel, SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} ComicBook/{{Magneto}} and his offspring formed a ComicBook/HouseOfM in the miniseries of the same name, but in a subversion (aversion?), the royal family seemed pretty well-balanced. In the [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate line]], however, the same 'royal family' is... Well, let's just say they've got ''problems''. General explanation? Big Daddy M's crazy-genes, plus power-induced madness.
15th Sep '17 9:37:07 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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[[TheCaligula What follows is either a reign of grotesque excess, blood, and terror]], or some other form of epically [[AdiposeRex bad king]] or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen queen]]. Rarely, you'll actually get somebody [[CrazyEnoughToWork so bonkers]] and [[TheMadnessPlace out there]], [[BunnyEarsLawyer they actually work well]] enough for their... little quirks (they're just ''paintings'', for crying out loud!) to be ignorable. Eventually, however, our [[NoodleIncident "At Least Painting the Throne-Room Puce and Yellow Worked"]] King Dolf or [[SerialKiller "Perhaps We Should Have Looked Into Those Cats More"]] Queen Enid will leave the throne (or be made to leave)... That should be the end of this outbreak of eccentricity, right?

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[[TheCaligula What follows is either a reign of grotesque excess, blood, and terror]], or some other form of epically [[AdiposeRex bad king]] or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen queen]]. Rarely, you'll actually get somebody [[CrazyEnoughToWork so bonkers]] and [[TheMadnessPlace out there]], [[BunnyEarsLawyer they actually actually]] [[TheWonka work well]] enough for their... little quirks (they're just ''paintings'', for crying out loud!) to be ignorable. Eventually, however, our [[NoodleIncident "At Least Painting the Throne-Room Puce and Yellow Worked"]] King Dolf or [[SerialKiller "Perhaps We Should Have Looked Into Those Cats More"]] Queen Enid will leave the throne (or be made to leave)... That should be the end of this outbreak of eccentricity, right?
11th Sep '17 2:19:20 AM Eievie
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[-[[caption-width-right:341:[[TruthInTelevision Charles II "The Bewitched" of Spain]]. Most people have family trees. This guy had a [[TangledFamilyTree family tumbleweed]]. Yes, that ''is'' his tongue poking vertically out of his mouth, and yes his lower jaw ''really did'' jut out that far, and yes his nose ''really was'' that messed up. Also, this is a ''flattering'' portrait.]]-]

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[-[[caption-width-right:341:[[TruthInTelevision Charles Carlos II "The Bewitched" Hexed" of Spain]]. Most people have family trees. This guy had a [[TangledFamilyTree family tumbleweed]]. Yes, that ''is'' his tongue poking vertically out of his mouth, and yes his lower jaw ''really did'' jut out that far, and yes his nose ''really was'' that messed up. Also, this is a ''flattering'' portrait.]]-]



Nearly every family of a decent size has at least one relative who's a little... strange. Maybe it's Great-Aunt Enid and her collection of carefully mounted cat skeletons (no one knows where she gets them -- they just appear), or second cousin Dolf's extensive research library on famous serial killers, complete with memorabilia he buys off of eBay at outrageous prices. (Those [[MonsterClown clown paintings]] he adores are ''particularly'' creepy.)

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Nearly every family of a decent size has at least one relative who's a little... strange. Maybe it's Great-Aunt Enid and her collection of carefully mounted cat skeletons (no one knows where she gets them -- they them--they just appear), or second cousin Dolf's extensive research library on famous serial killers, complete with memorabilia he buys off of eBay at outrageous prices. (Those [[MonsterClown clown paintings]] he adores are ''particularly'' creepy.)



[[TheCaligula What follows is either a reign of grotesque excess, blood, and terror]], or some other form of epically [[AdiposeRex bad king]] or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen queen]]. Rarely, you'll actually get somebody [[CrazyEnoughToWork so bonkers]] and [[TheMadnessPlace out there]], [[BunnyEarsLawyer they actually work well]] enough for their... little quirks (they're just ''paintings'', for crying out loud!) to be ignorable. Eventually, however, our "[[NoodleIncident At Least Painting the Throne-Room Puce and Yellow Worked]]" King Dolf or "[[SerialKiller Perhaps We Should Have Looked Into Those Cats More]]" Queen Enid will leave the throne (or be made to leave)... That should be the end of this outbreak of eccentricity, right?

Not necessarily. In fact, not even probably. Potentially dangerous insanity in the ruling line rarely appears in a single, isolated case when it comes to fiction. Nope. Chances are the whole family line is just as affected somehow, which means that sooner or later --probably sooner-- along will come Queen Enid II and King Dolf III both or either of whom is painfully, obviously off their rocker enough for people to openly comment... And, the whole thing will start up all over again.

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[[TheCaligula What follows is either a reign of grotesque excess, blood, and terror]], or some other form of epically [[AdiposeRex bad king]] or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen queen]]. Rarely, you'll actually get somebody [[CrazyEnoughToWork so bonkers]] and [[TheMadnessPlace out there]], [[BunnyEarsLawyer they actually work well]] enough for their... little quirks (they're just ''paintings'', for crying out loud!) to be ignorable. Eventually, however, our "[[NoodleIncident At [[NoodleIncident "At Least Painting the Throne-Room Puce and Yellow Worked]]" Worked"]] King Dolf or "[[SerialKiller Perhaps [[SerialKiller "Perhaps We Should Have Looked Into Those Cats More]]" More"]] Queen Enid will leave the throne (or be made to leave)... That should be the end of this outbreak of eccentricity, right?

Not necessarily. In fact, not even probably. Potentially dangerous insanity in the ruling line rarely appears in a single, isolated case when it comes to fiction. Nope. Chances are the whole family line is just as affected somehow, which means that sooner or later --probably sooner-- along later--probably sooner--along will come Queen Enid II and King Dolf III both or either of whom is painfully, obviously off their rocker enough for people to openly comment... And, the whole thing will start up all over again.



* Genetics: It's InTheBlood in the completely literal, biological and strictly genetic sense. Often, that means [[RoyalInbreeding excessive inbreeding]], sometimes ''very'' excessive. The initial problem maybe wasn't inbreeding, but some genetic damage caused by an outside source that then becomes intensified and cemented into the royal line after the fact either through deliberate inbreeding or the sheer bad luck of not understanding biology when selecting mates. In any case, the family just has a crazy streak that's now inbuilt, and you're not getting rid of it unless your society is advanced enough to have genetic engineering (or a magical equivalent thereof) to deal with the problem. Or, becomes egalitarian enough for the high nobility to stop marrying each other so much. That last bit ought to help. Eventually.

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* Genetics: '''Genetics:''' It's InTheBlood in the completely literal, biological and strictly genetic sense. Often, that means [[RoyalInbreeding excessive inbreeding]], sometimes ''very'' excessive. The initial problem maybe wasn't inbreeding, but some genetic damage caused by an outside source that then becomes intensified and cemented into the royal line after the fact either through deliberate inbreeding or the sheer bad luck of not understanding biology when selecting mates. In any case, the family just has a crazy streak that's now inbuilt, and you're not getting rid of it unless your society is advanced enough to have genetic engineering (or a magical equivalent thereof) to deal with the problem. Or, becomes egalitarian enough for the high nobility to stop marrying each other so much. That last bit ought to help. Eventually.



* [[{{Curse}} Family Curse]]: Arguably, this is worse than a crappy genetic surprise. Someone, or something, has cursed the royal line... somehow and for whatever reason (most likely revenge). This can easily be a lot nastier to deal with than the problem of bad physical or moral genes, because even if you're careful about avoiding the inbreeding and taking care to select mates for brains, upstanding habits and/or governing skills, the curse really ''doesn't'' care. It may even spread out to people who marry into the royal line and cause them to go mad, even though they're only family by marriage, and not by blood. It also means that you might not solve the problem by just picking a new family to rule over you -- they're also likely to get swatted by the curse just as soon as they take power if the thing was either badly worded or specifically made to target those who rule a particular place, rather than just "the family of the one who wronged me". Obviously, to fix this you need to figure out who or what cursed the royal line with what words and why they did it, and then work out how to deal with the mess by whatever means necessary. You could try jumping straight to a parliamentary system to see how the curse deals with having hundreds of "rulers", but you'd better hope it just doesn't spread out to cover them all, or it will make your old problem seem ''laughably'' trivial by comparison.

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* [[{{Curse}} '''[[{{Curse}} Family Curse]]: Curse]]:''' Arguably, this is worse than a crappy genetic surprise. Someone, or something, has cursed the royal line... somehow and for whatever reason (most likely revenge). This can easily be a lot nastier to deal with than the problem of bad physical or moral genes, because even if you're careful about avoiding the inbreeding and taking care to select mates for brains, upstanding habits and/or governing skills, the curse really ''doesn't'' care. It may even spread out to people who marry into the royal line and cause them to go mad, even though they're only family by marriage, and not by blood. It also means that you might not solve the problem by just picking a new family to rule over you -- they're you--they're also likely to get swatted by the curse just as soon as they take power if the thing was either badly worded or specifically made to target those who rule a particular place, rather than just "the family of the one who wronged me". Obviously, to fix this you need to figure out who or what cursed the royal line with what words and why they did it, and then work out how to deal with the mess by whatever means necessary. You could try jumping straight to a parliamentary system to see how the curse deals with having hundreds of "rulers", but you'd better hope it just doesn't spread out to cover them all, or it will make your old problem seem ''laughably'' trivial by comparison.



* Cultural: The madness is the product of nurture, not nature; which means turning to exiled princes will be fine, at least for the first generation. If people don't change the culture that produced the madness, it will return, however. Possible reasons include:

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* Cultural: '''Cultural:''' The madness is the product of nurture, not nature; which means turning to exiled princes will be fine, at least for the first generation. If people don't change the culture that produced the madness, it will return, however. Possible reasons include:



* Environmental: Some X-factor specific to the royal family's home location, diet, or environment is mucking things up.

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* Environmental: '''Environmental:''' Some X-factor specific to the royal family's home location, diet, or environment is mucking things up.



* They're Just Nuts: anything and everything not covered by the above. Sometimes, mental illness just turns up both uninvited and unwanted. Rulers are no exception.

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* They're '''They're Just Nuts: anything Nuts:''' Anything and everything not covered by the above. Sometimes, mental illness just turns up both uninvited and unwanted. Rulers are no exception.



[[folder:Anime and Manga]]

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[[folder:Anime and & Manga]]
11th Sep '17 12:19:31 AM Werebazs
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** Emperor Ferdinand I of Austria wasn't the head-choppy kind of crazy but he was definitely epileptic and had a hydrocephalus. His (rather euphemistic) honorific was "the Kindly" or "the Benign" (''Ferdinand der Gütige'' in German).[[note]]After his 1848 abdication, jokers sometimes turned this into ''Gütinand der Fertige'': "Goodinand the Finished".[[/note]] He gave exactly one coherent order during his entire reign: upon being told by his cook that he could not have ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marillenknodel Marillenknödel]]'' (a kind of Austrian sweet dumpling stuffed with whole apricots) for dessert because apricots were out of season, he famously said, "''Ich bin der Kaiser und ich will Knödel!''" ("I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings!").[[note]]He seems to have expressed himself much better in writing; his diary is completely coherent and even witty. Wouldn't be the first time someone with a communication disorder was passed off as dumber than they are to enable a power/money grab.[[/note]] After being told by his chancellor [[MagnificentBastard Metternich]] that the people outside the palace were carrying out a revolution (in 1848), his answer according to urban legend was: "Yes, but are they allowed to do that?"[[note]]Incidentally, he's said to have said it in the [[GermanDialects Viennese dialect of Austrian German]], which (for German-speakers) lends to the air of amiable cluelessness.[[/note]] Since he remained childless, his disabilities did not continue down the line. Not that the line would ever have become Emperors; after the aforementioned revolution, the government convinced him to abdicate in favor of his saner and (it turns out) hypercompetent nephew Franz Joseph (who would reign until 1916).

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** Emperor Ferdinand I of Austria wasn't the head-choppy kind of crazy but he was definitely epileptic and had a hydrocephalus. His (rather euphemistic) honorific was "the Kindly" or "the Benign" (''Ferdinand der Gütige'' in German).[[note]]After his 1848 abdication, jokers sometimes turned this into ''Gütinand der Fertige'': "Goodinand the Finished".[[/note]] He gave exactly one coherent order during his entire reign: upon being told by his cook that he could not have ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marillenknodel Marillenknödel]]'' (a kind of Austrian sweet dumpling stuffed with whole apricots) for dessert because apricots were out of season, he famously said, "''Ich bin der Kaiser und ich will Knödel!''" ("I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings!").[[note]]He seems to have expressed himself much better in writing; his diary is completely coherent and even witty. Wouldn't be the first time someone with a communication disorder was passed off as dumber than they are to enable a power/money grab.[[/note]] After being told by his chancellor [[MagnificentBastard Metternich]] that the people outside the palace were carrying out a revolution (in 1848), his answer according to urban legend was: "Yes, but are they allowed to do that?"[[note]]Incidentally, he's said to have said it in the [[GermanDialects Viennese dialect of Austrian German]], which (for German-speakers) lends to the air of amiable cluelessness.[[/note]] Since he remained childless, his disabilities did not continue down the line. Not that the line would ever have become Emperors; after the aforementioned revolution, the government convinced him to abdicate in favor of his saner and (it turns out) hypercompetent {{Workaholic}} nephew Franz Joseph (who would reign until 1916).
3rd Sep '17 5:45:20 PM karategal
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'' implies this is caused by inbreeding in the Targaryen and [[spoiler:Lannister]] family lines, in as little as one generation. The crazy rate is implied to be around 50% (as per the page quote), regardless of how long the inbreeding has been practiced. Technically the [[spoiler: Lannister]] case isn't a single generation; [[spoiler: Jaime and Cersei]] are first generation sibling incest, but their parents were first cousins. And since no particular fuss is made over that fact, it can be assumed that cousin incest is not uncommon in the Lannister family. [[spoiler: Cersei and Jaime]] were far from the first incestuous pairing in the family, but they were probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Furthermore, they're both unpleasant people (though [[spoiler:Jaime]] is [[TheAtoner trying to be less unpleasant]]), and their son Joffrey seems to combine the worst aspects of each. His siblings Myrcella and Tommen, on the other hand, are perfectly reasonable people (though Tommen is an ExtremeDoormat) who [[spoiler:wind up being TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth thanks to Cersei's machinations, leading to the end of their house.]] Furthermore, though not crazy, all of the Lannisters mentioned except Kevan have issues. Tytos had a desire to please that made him a doormat, Tywin see people as tools for his work, as mentioned above the twins are unpleasant, Tyrion is an alcoholic dwarf with terrible family relation, Lancel is a zealot and there is one who just smashes beetles while screaming crunk.

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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'' implies this is caused by inbreeding in the Targaryen and [[spoiler:Lannister]] family lines, in as little as one generation. The crazy rate is implied to be around 50% (as per the page quote), regardless of how long the inbreeding has been practiced. Technically the [[spoiler: Lannister]] case isn't a single generation; [[spoiler: Jaime and Cersei]] are first generation sibling incest, but their parents were first cousins. And since no particular fuss is made over that fact, it can be assumed that cousin incest is not uncommon in the Lannister family. [[spoiler: Cersei and Jaime]] were far from the first incestuous pairing in the family, but they were probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Furthermore, they're both unpleasant people (though [[spoiler:Jaime]] is [[TheAtoner trying to be less unpleasant]]), and their son Joffrey seems to combine the worst aspects of each. His siblings Myrcella and Tommen, on the other hand, are perfectly reasonable people (though Tommen is an ExtremeDoormat) who [[spoiler:wind up being TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth thanks to Cersei's machinations, leading to the end of their house.]] Furthermore, though not crazy, all of the Lannisters mentioned except Kevan have issues. Tytos had a desire to please that made him a doormat, Tywin see sees people as tools for his work, as mentioned above the twins are unpleasant, Tyrion is an alcoholic dwarf with terrible family relation, relations, Lancel is a zealot zealot, and there is one who just smashes beetles while screaming crunk.



* Invoked in Series/TheMusketeers, when after outwitting some depraved noblemen, Aramis says "Centuries of inbreeding is making the aristocracy (taps the side of head) stupid."

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* Invoked in Series/TheMusketeers, ''Series/TheMusketeers'', when after outwitting some depraved noblemen, Aramis says "Centuries of inbreeding is making the aristocracy (taps the side of head) stupid."
3rd Sep '17 5:33:23 PM karategal
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* In ''Film/TheHobbit'', this is apparently the case for the dwarven King Thrór and his grandson Thorin. Apparently, it was Thrór's excessive greed that brought the dragon Smaug to Erebor. Later, Thorin succumbs to dragon sickness, claiming the wealth of Erebor is greater then any life, suspecting the Company of stealing the [[MacGuffin Arkenstone]] and almost throwing Bilbo from the ramparts when he finds out he took the Arkenstone to the elves and men. He refuses to help the Iron Hill dwarves outside when they're fighting a massive army of orcs and goblins, leading to a WhatTheHellHero from Dwalin. Thorin eventually realises how dangerous his greed is and leaves Erebor to help fight against Azog's army. [[spoiler:He is fatally wounded in a MutualKill with Azog, but before Thorin dies he makes his peace with Bilbo.]] Subverted with Thráin, Thorin's father, who ''did'' go mad, but only after years of grief, isolation, and torture.

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* In ''Film/TheHobbit'', this is apparently the case for the dwarven King Thrór and his grandson Thorin. Apparently, it was Thrór's excessive greed that brought the dragon Smaug to Erebor. Later, Thorin succumbs to dragon sickness, claiming the wealth of Erebor is greater then any life, suspecting the Company of stealing the [[MacGuffin Arkenstone]] and almost throwing Bilbo from the ramparts when he finds out he took the Arkenstone to the elves and men. He refuses to help the Iron Hill dwarves outside when they're fighting a massive army of orcs and goblins, leading to a WhatTheHellHero from Dwalin. Thorin eventually realises how dangerous his greed is and leaves Erebor to help fight against Azog's army. [[spoiler:He is fatally wounded in a MutualKill with Azog, but before Thorin dies he makes his peace with Bilbo.]] Subverted with Thráin, Thorin's father, who ''did'' go mad, but only after years of grief, isolation, and torture.
3rd Sep '17 5:29:24 PM karategal
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** In ''[[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5651585/3/Wizards-are-stupid Wizards are stupid]]'', a collection of one-shots dedicated to demonstrating the stupidity of Potterverse wizards, the third chapter "Incest is bad" is dedicated to Draco Malfoy's birth: the first Draco was a circus freak [[BodyHorror (with three arms, fourteen fingers on the arms, three testicles and no penis, two mouths (one on the side of the face, the other on the neck), among other things),]] quickly killed and incinerated, and there were three other freaks, stillborns or miscarriages before we got the Draco we met in the series. It's openly attributed to inbreeding, with Lucius and Narcissa being presented as first cousins on the Black side of the family, and the author gleefully pointed out many alternatives.

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** In ''[[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5651585/3/Wizards-are-stupid Wizards are stupid]]'', a collection of one-shots dedicated to demonstrating the stupidity of Potterverse wizards, the third chapter "Incest is bad" is dedicated to Draco Malfoy's birth: the first Draco was a circus freak [[BodyHorror (with three arms, fourteen fingers on the arms, three testicles and no penis, two mouths (one on the side of the face, the other on the neck), among other things),]] quickly killed and incinerated, and there were three other freaks, stillborns stillborns, or miscarriages before we got the Draco we met in the series. It's openly attributed to inbreeding, with Lucius and Narcissa being presented as first cousins on the Black side of the family, and the author gleefully pointed out many alternatives.



* In ''Film/TheHobbit'' this is apparently the case for the Dwarf King Thror and his Grandson Thorin. Thror's excessive greed apparently brought the dragon Smaug to Erebor. Later Thorin succumbs to dragon sickness, claiming the wealth of Erebor is greater then any life, suspecting the other Dwarves who have proved loyal to him of stealing the [[MacGuffin Arkenstone]] and almost throwing Bilbo from the ramparts when he finds out he took the Arkenstone to the Elves and men. He refuses to help the Dwarves outside when they are fighting the Orcs, leading to a WhatTheHellHero from Dwalin. Later Thorin realises how dangerous his greed is and leaves Erebor to help the Dwarves against the Orcs. [[spoiler:He is fatally wounded in a MutualKill with Azog the Orc Leader but before he dies makes his peace with Bilbo.]] Subverted with Thrain, Thorin's father, who ''did'' go mad, but only after years of grief, isolation and torture.

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* In ''Film/TheHobbit'' ''Film/TheHobbit'', this is apparently the case for the Dwarf dwarven King Thror Thrór and his Grandson grandson Thorin. Thror's Apparently, it was Thrór's excessive greed apparently that brought the dragon Smaug to Erebor. Later Later, Thorin succumbs to dragon sickness, claiming the wealth of Erebor is greater then any life, suspecting the other Dwarves who have proved loyal to him Company of stealing the [[MacGuffin Arkenstone]] and almost throwing Bilbo from the ramparts when he finds out he took the Arkenstone to the Elves elves and men. He refuses to help the Dwarves Iron Hill dwarves outside when they are they're fighting the Orcs, a massive army of orcs and goblins, leading to a WhatTheHellHero from Dwalin. Later Thorin eventually realises how dangerous his greed is and leaves Erebor to help the Dwarves fight against the Orcs. Azog's army. [[spoiler:He is fatally wounded in a MutualKill with Azog the Orc Leader Azog, but before he Thorin dies he makes his peace with Bilbo.]] Subverted with Thrain, Thráin, Thorin's father, who ''did'' go mad, but only after years of grief, isolation isolation, and torture.



* The page quote comes from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'', in which the royal Targaryen line is said to be blessed with greatness as much as it is cursed with madness, in part due to centuries of inbreeding to keep the "[[RoyaltySuperpower Blood of Old Valyria]]" pure. It started with the first Targaryen king, who was a great man but unfortunately married and had children with both of his sisters (a family tradition); from there on out it's been a crapshoot. The line has produced many able warriors, statesmen, and scholars as well as a rogue's gallery of tyrants and psychopaths. Some Targaryens begin quite noble and lose their grip on sanity as they age, such as King Aerys II -- by the end of his reign, he was known as King Aerys the Mad, and in the end his excesses sparked a revolt that toppled the dynasty. Daenerys, the only POV character with Targaryen blood ([[EpilepticTrees so far as we know]]), seems more sound of mind than her relatives, but is a bit delusional and idealistic, and would do well to take the advice of those around her. The books give us only one normal Targaryen [[spoiler:(two if you count Jon Snow)]]-- Maester Aemon, as even the much liked Rhaegar was bipolar and had delusions of grandeur.
** The Lannisters seem to be heading the inbred-madness route too: [[spoiler: King Joffrey and his siblings Myrcella and Tommen]] are the product of BrotherSisterIncest between [[spoiler:Queen Cersei (married to King Robert, whom she hates) and her twin brother Jaime. Jaime and Cersei's parents were first cousins]]. Cersei is a paranoid schemer who eventually engineers her own downfall, and [[spoiler:Joffrey,]] her son was sadistic and unstable and had to be put down by [[spoiler:Littlefinger and the Tyrells]]. Hopefully averted with Prince Tommen and Princess Myrcella, who are both perfectly sweet children... for now.

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* The page quote comes from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'', in which the royal Targaryen line is said to be blessed with greatness as much as it is cursed with madness, in part due to centuries of inbreeding to keep the "[[RoyaltySuperpower Blood of Old Valyria]]" pure. It started with the first Targaryen king, who was a great man but unfortunately married and had children with both of his sisters (a family tradition); from there on out it's been a crapshoot. The line has produced many able warriors, statesmen, and scholars as well as a rogue's gallery of tyrants and psychopaths. Some Targaryens begin quite noble and lose their grip on sanity as they age, such as King Aerys II -- by the end of his reign, he was known as King Aerys the Mad, and in the end his excesses sparked a revolt that toppled the dynasty. Daenerys, the only POV character with Targaryen blood ([[EpilepticTrees so far as we know]]), seems more sound of mind than her relatives, but is a bit delusional and idealistic, and would do well to take the advice of those around her. The books give us only one normal Targaryen [[spoiler:(two if you count Jon Snow)]]-- Snow)]] -- Maester Aemon, as even the much liked Rhaegar was bipolar and had delusions of grandeur.
** The Lannisters seem to be heading the inbred-madness route route, too: [[spoiler: King Joffrey and his siblings Myrcella and Tommen]] are the product of BrotherSisterIncest between [[spoiler:Queen Cersei (married to King Robert, whom she hates) and her twin brother Jaime. Jaime and Cersei's parents were first cousins]]. Cersei is a paranoid schemer who eventually engineers her own downfall, and [[spoiler:Joffrey,]] her son was sadistic and unstable and had to be put down by [[spoiler:Littlefinger and the Tyrells]]. Hopefully averted with Prince Tommen and Princess Myrcella, who are both perfectly sweet children... for now.



• his grandson Viserys I -- Aside from not clearing up his line of succession quite normal,\\

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• his grandson Viserys I -- Aside from not clearing up his line of succession succession, quite normal,\\
30th Aug '17 6:57:57 AM BeerBaron
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* According to [[MadGod Sheogorath]], [[TheCaligula Pelagius Septim]], from ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'', was seriously screwed up compared to the average person, but for a Septim he was pretty normal.
** Along with Pelagius there was his aunt, Potema the Wolf Queen, and Solitude is suggested to have endured more then its fair share of these kind of rulers in its history.

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* According to [[MadGod Sheogorath]], [[TheCaligula Pelagius ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** The Septim Dynasty of the Third Cyrodiilic Empire, [[FounderOfTheKingdom founded]] by [[GodEmperor Tiber
Septim]], had its fair share of crazy. To note:
*** Emperor Pelagius Septim, aka "Pelagius the Mad". He was an AxeCrazy MoodSwinger and very much the shining example of TheCaligula in Tamriellic history. He suffered
from ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'', extreme weight fluctuations and tried to hang himself at the end of a royal ball. He insisted on his palace [[NeatFreak always being kept clean]] and (perhaps apocryphally) was said to defecate on the floors to keep his servants busy. He would only communicate with the [[LizardFolk Argonian]] ambassador in grunts and squeaks, believing it to be the Argonian language. He'd frequently [[FullFrontalAssault strip naked in public and, toward the end of his life, would attack and bite visitors]]. He was eventually declared unfit to rule and his wife by arranged marriage, Katariah, the [[OurElvesAreBetter Dunmeri]] former Duchess of Vvardenfell, took over as [[RegentForLife Empress Regent]]. However, according to Sheogorath, the [[OurGodsAreDifferent Daedric Prince]] of [[MadGod Madness]], Pelagius may have been seriously screwed up compared to the average person, but was, for a Septim, pretty normal. While history records most of the Septim he was pretty normal.
** Along with
line as perfectly sane and even austere, this implies that the [[WrittenByTheWinners Imperial propaganda machine]] has done it's job in hiding the family's eccentricities.
***
Pelagius there was his aunt, Potema the "the [[RedBaron Wolf Queen, Queen]]" of Solitude, wasn't much better. In an attempt to get her son on the Imperial throne, she kicked off the War of the Red Diamond, the bloodiest CivilWar in Tamriellic history. By the end of the war, she had gone completely off the deep end and used {{necromancy}} to bolster her dwindling forces. Ironically, Solitude is suggested to have endured more then than its fair share of these kind of rulers in its history.history.
*** Sanguine is the [[OurGodsAreDifferent Daedric Prince]] of [[FunPersonified Debauchery]] and [[TheHedonist Hedonism]]. According to ''The Imperial Census of Daedra Lords'', "As revelry and drunken stupor fall under this Prince’s influence, he has been a favorite of many Emperors since the first foundation."
24th Aug '17 3:56:25 AM nm3youtube
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** Don Carlos, the rebellious son of Philip II, was insane to the point of being physically dangerous and would take swipes at passing servants with a knife.

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** Don Carlos, the rebellious son of Philip II, was insane to the point of being physically dangerous and would take swipes at passing servants with a knife. Philip ended up removing him from the line of succession on the basis that he was unfit for the throne, and he spent the last six months of his life under house arrest.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RoyallyScrewedUp