History Main / RockBeatsLaser

21st Aug '16 3:45:35 AM Morgenthaler
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* [[CanucksWithChinooks Canadian]] and [[AussiesWithArtillery Australian]] submarines built in the 1960s routinely "sink" modern American carriers in wargames. The standard tactic was to try and get ahead of the carrier battlegroup, and then go absolutely silent and unmoving and let the fleet run over them. Inevitably the subs were "sunk" when they executed an attack on the carrier, but more often than not they'd have gotten their torpedoes off first, trading a few dozen men and a dinky little diesel-electric boat for a multi-billion dollar fleet carrier crewed by thousands and carrying dozens of planes. Mind, awareness of the threat posed by diesel-electric subs is the whole reason they get invited to these wargames.

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* [[CanucksWithChinooks [[UsefulNotes/CanucksWithChinooks Canadian]] and [[AussiesWithArtillery [[UsefulNotes/AussiesWithArtillery Australian]] submarines built in the 1960s routinely "sink" modern American carriers in wargames. The standard tactic was to try and get ahead of the carrier battlegroup, and then go absolutely silent and unmoving and let the fleet run over them. Inevitably the subs were "sunk" when they executed an attack on the carrier, but more often than not they'd have gotten their torpedoes off first, trading a few dozen men and a dinky little diesel-electric boat for a multi-billion dollar fleet carrier crewed by thousands and carrying dozens of planes. Mind, awareness of the threat posed by diesel-electric subs is the whole reason they get invited to these wargames.
17th Aug '16 11:25:27 AM SSJMagus
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** Regarding the ''other'' film, ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'', that dealt with a technologically superior army dealing with an inferior group, it's notably averted: although the Gungans did manage to do in some numbers of the Droid Army in the climactic battle, they overall ''lost'' badly. In fact, literally the only reason they managed to live to tell the day was through sheer dumb luck from Anakin [[KeystoneArmy managing to blow up the Droid Control Ship, causing the droid units to shut down]].
* ''Film/IndependenceDay''. No, seriously, the aliens come down to Earth, they glass a portion of the planet, they blow up some of the most advanced fighter planes in the world (and their elite pilots) and even nukes can't stop them... but a combination of ''Morse Code'' and a ''computer virus'' '''''can'''''?! It was even worse in the original cut of the movie. Russell is denied permission to fly one of the remaining F-18's, so he shows up to the final battle and destroys the enemy ship ''with his crop-dusting biplane'' with a sidewinder missile ''taped to its side.''

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** Regarding the ''other'' film, ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'', that dealt with a technologically superior army dealing with an inferior group, it's notably averted: although the Gungans did manage to do in some numbers of the Droid Army in the climactic battle, battle[[note]]It helps that the Gungans aren't truly primitive; they just use very ''different'' technology based on a unique form of plasma extracted from Naboo's core. While they have beasts of burden rather than vehicles and catapults rather than laser cannons, they also have [[DeflectorShields laser-reflecting plasma shields]] and those catapults are used to throw [[PlasmaCannon plasma orbs]] that go through tank armor like a hot knife through butter.[[/note]], they overall ''lost'' badly. In fact, literally the only reason they managed to live to tell the day was through sheer dumb luck from Anakin [[KeystoneArmy managing to blow up the Droid Control Ship, causing the droid units to shut down]].
* ''Film/IndependenceDay''. No, seriously, the aliens come down to Earth, they glass a portion of the planet, they blow up some of the most advanced fighter planes in the world (and their elite pilots) and even nukes can't stop them... but a combination of ''Morse Code'' and a ''computer virus'' '''''can'''''?! It was even worse in the original cut of the movie. Russell is denied permission to fly one of the remaining F-18's, so he shows up to the final battle and destroys the enemy ship ''with his crop-dusting biplane'' with a sidewinder Sidewinder missile ''taped to its side.''



* Similar to the above , during the breakup of Yugoslavia, the crossbow manufacturer Barnett sold crossbows to Serbian paramilitaries due to crossbows not being banned under the UN arms embargo. The Paramilitaries and even some army units used the crossbows as virtually silent sniper weapons. The crossbows also had a terrifying effect on the soldiers who came under attack from them, as the crossbows were so quiet they never knew they were being attacked.During the mentioned breakup of Yugoslavia, one of the main weapons of the rebelling side, with less than half the men, all the siege and air war machines moved to Serbia, were sinks and heating boilers carried and dropped by firefighting aircraft with over 80 year outdated engines.

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* Similar to the above , during the breakup of Yugoslavia, the crossbow manufacturer Barnett sold crossbows to Serbian paramilitaries due to crossbows not being banned under the UN arms embargo. The Paramilitaries and even some army units used the crossbows as virtually silent sniper weapons. The crossbows also had a terrifying effect on the soldiers who came under attack from them, as the crossbows were so quiet they never knew they were being attacked. During the mentioned breakup of Yugoslavia, one of the main weapons of the rebelling side, with less than half the men, all the siege and air war machines moved to Serbia, were sinks and heating boilers carried and dropped by firefighting aircraft with over 80 year outdated engines.
11th Aug '16 11:44:47 AM EDP
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** The [[TheEmpire Imperium of Man]] still makes use of firearms. While small arm-sized auto and stub weapons (pistol and rifle equivalents using caseless ammo) are often lackluster, larger guns are just as powerful as their energy equivalents, the bolters remain fast-firing ''rocket-propelled AP/HE/incendiary grenades'', and their artillery (using the powder bag system dating to ''1917'') is one of the most devastating weapons of the game.
31st Jul '16 12:54:00 AM thatmadork
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* Realistically {{averted|Trope}} in ''VideoGame/Medieval2TotalWar'', but played straight in the LowFantasy total conversion mod ''VideoGame/{{Thera}}''. If you're playing as the Aztec-themed Paynal Empire or the Warriors of Kukulcan, you can expect to go up against the advanced armies of the Faustian Reich, the Ducado and the Privateers, as these factions all start on a western continent analogous to the Americas. The latter three have late-renaissance armies of musketeers, cannons and cavalry in steel plate armour, while the former two haven't yet invented metalworking or the wheel. It's also very possible for the former two to win.
29th Jul '16 1:39:24 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* A DangerouslyGenreSavvy [[Literature/TheCulture Culture]] in [[Creator/IainBanks Iain M. Banks]]'s series of novel has spent more than 10,000 years using her Special Circumstance elite agency to learn to beat lasers with rocks, rocks with lasers and ScaryDogmaticAliens with apparently unarmed and captured spies, making them CrazyPrepared masters of BambooTechnology while still being able to [[WeaponOfMassDestruction throw blackholes]] when needed.

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* A DangerouslyGenreSavvy [[Literature/TheCulture Culture]] in [[Creator/IainBanks Iain M. Banks]]'s series of novel has spent more than 10,000 years using her Special Circumstance elite agency to learn to beat lasers with rocks, rocks with lasers and ScaryDogmaticAliens with apparently unarmed and captured spies, making them CrazyPrepared masters of BambooTechnology while still being able to [[WeaponOfMassDestruction throw blackholes]] when needed.



* [[CanucksWithChinooks Canadian]] and [[AussiesWithArtillery Australian]] submarines built in the 1960s routinely "sink" modern American carriers in wargames. The standard tactic was to try and get ahead of the carrier battlegroup, and then go absolutely silent and unmoving and let the fleet run over them. Inevitably the subs were "sunk" when they executed an attack on the carrier, but more often than not they'd have gotten their torpedoes off first, trading a few dozen men and a dinky little diesel-electric boat for a multi-billion dollar fleet carrier crewed by thousands and carrying dozens of planes. Mind, [[GenreSavvy awareness of the threat posed by diesel-electric subs]] is the whole reason they get invited to these wargames.

to:

* [[CanucksWithChinooks Canadian]] and [[AussiesWithArtillery Australian]] submarines built in the 1960s routinely "sink" modern American carriers in wargames. The standard tactic was to try and get ahead of the carrier battlegroup, and then go absolutely silent and unmoving and let the fleet run over them. Inevitably the subs were "sunk" when they executed an attack on the carrier, but more often than not they'd have gotten their torpedoes off first, trading a few dozen men and a dinky little diesel-electric boat for a multi-billion dollar fleet carrier crewed by thousands and carrying dozens of planes. Mind, [[GenreSavvy awareness of the threat posed by diesel-electric subs]] subs is the whole reason they get invited to these wargames.
26th May '16 7:41:27 AM EricNeoMatrix
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* Played with in the background setting of ''FanFic/SonicXDarkChaos''. The Demons initially thought that the Angel rebellion would be easy to defeat - the Demon Empire had technology that could ''destroy galaxies at the push of a button'' and ''control time'' versus [[FuturePrimitive simple projectile weapons and nuclear missiles]]. Turned out that the Jews, Muslims, and Angels had [[SchizoTech much more than that]], and used their more... advanced technology to fight the Demons into [[HopelessWar a bloody, eternal stalemate]].

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* Played with in the background setting of ''FanFic/SonicXDarkChaos''. The Demons initially thought that the Angel rebellion would be easy to defeat - the Demon Empire had technology that could ''destroy galaxies at the push of a button'' and ''control time'' versus [[FuturePrimitive simple projectile weapons and nuclear missiles]]. Turned out that the Jews, Muslims, and Angels had [[SchizoTech much more than that]], and used their more... advanced technology to fight the Demons into [[HopelessWar a bloody, eternal stalemate]]. It helps that the Jews of the Tribal Republic are the masters of stealth and guerrilla warfare, and the Muslims are suicidally courageous and fanatical in battle.
26th May '16 7:32:43 AM EricNeoMatrix
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Added DiffLines:

* Played with in the background setting of ''FanFic/SonicXDarkChaos''. The Demons initially thought that the Angel rebellion would be easy to defeat - the Demon Empire had technology that could ''destroy galaxies at the push of a button'' and ''control time'' versus [[FuturePrimitive simple projectile weapons and nuclear missiles]]. Turned out that the Jews, Muslims, and Angels had [[SchizoTech much more than that]], and used their more... advanced technology to fight the Demons into [[HopelessWar a bloody, eternal stalemate]].
** And then the Shroud appeared, playing this trope straight. The Shroud have no technology at all, being a parasitic HordeOfAlienLocusts, and yet there are so many of them and they are so strong that they can easily fight both Demons and Angels at the same time.
22nd May '16 5:09:51 AM Nohbody
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** Unable to overcome Manticoran technical advantages in LAC combat, the Republicans develop the "triple ripple" tactic, which uses loads of the dirtiest thermonuclear warhead missiles (considered to be just about obsolete in modern space combat) they have to overload Mantie sensors with humongous {{EMP}} bursts, blinding them so that Republican [=LACs=] can get in licks while their opponents aren't able to target anything.

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** Unable to overcome Manticoran technical advantages in LAC combat, in ''War of Honor'' the Republicans develop the "triple ripple" tactic, which uses loads of the dirtiest thermonuclear warhead missiles (considered to be just about obsolete in modern space combat) they have to overload Mantie sensors with humongous {{EMP}} bursts, blinding them so that Republican [=LACs=] can get in licks while their opponents aren't able to target anything.
22nd May '16 5:05:12 AM Nohbody
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* In one of Danial da Cruz's ''Texas'' novels (''The Ayes of Texas'', I believe), an invading Soviet armored division is defeated by one man on a horse armed with a ''FlareGun''... [[spoiler:and several acres of diesel-soaked ground]].

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* In one of Danial da Cruz's ''Texas'' novels (''The novel ''The Ayes of Texas'', I believe), an invading Soviet armored division is defeated by one man on a horse armed with a ''FlareGun''... [[spoiler:and several acres of diesel-soaked ground]].ground]].
* ''Literature/HonorHarrington'':
** When dealing with [[PresidentEvil Andre Warnecke]] in ''Honor Among Enemies'', Honor and her armsmen need to board a shuttle with the madman in question and several of his goons without any weapons, which is confirmed with a scanner that detects power sources. However, the [[HandCannon M1911 pistol]], newly built but to the exact specifications of modern day RealLife Earth, that she sneaks aboard doesn't use a power source (unlike pulsers in the current setting), so it goes undetected in its hiding place until she brings it out and blasts Warnecke's henchmen.
** Unable to overcome Manticoran technical advantages in LAC combat, the Republicans develop the "triple ripple" tactic, which uses loads of the dirtiest thermonuclear warhead missiles (considered to be just about obsolete in modern space combat) they have to overload Mantie sensors with humongous {{EMP}} bursts, blinding them so that Republican [=LACs=] can get in licks while their opponents aren't able to target anything.
--->It isn't pretty, and it isn't elegant, but it ''is'' something more important than either of those things -- it works. --V. Adm. [[spoiler:Shannon Foraker]]
13th May '16 2:35:19 PM merotoker
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->''"The hell of it was that a nineteenth-century bullet or even a Stone Age spear could still kill a [[SpaceMarine twenty-third-century marine]]. It shouldn't. It should not be ''allowed''. And that was it -- it was your sense of superiority that killed you.''"

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->''"The hell of it was that a nineteenth-century bullet or even a Stone Age spear could still kill a [[SpaceMarine twenty-third-century marine]].marine. It shouldn't. It should not be ''allowed''. And that was it -- it was your sense of superiority that killed you.''"



* In ''ComicBook/XStatix''/''[[ComicBook/TheAvengers Avengers]]'', the Mr. Sensitive fights ComicBook/IronMan armed only with an ''anvil'', of all things, as depicted above. Well, [[CoversAlwaysLie on the cover, at least]]. Mr. Sensitive ''did'' win the fight depicted in the issue itself, though.[[note]] [[RuleOfFunny By convincing Stark to take off his armor and fight him naked.]] This makes more sense when you realize Sensitive's mutant condition is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin and even throwing blades of grass at him hurts him. And Sensitive was also naked.[[/note]]

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* In ''ComicBook/XStatix''/''[[ComicBook/TheAvengers Avengers]]'', the Mr. Sensitive fights ComicBook/IronMan armed only with an ''anvil'', of all things, as depicted above. Well, [[CoversAlwaysLie on the cover, at least]]. Mr. Sensitive ''did'' win the fight depicted in the issue itself, though.[[note]] [[RuleOfFunny By convincing Stark to take off his armor and fight him naked.]] This makes more sense when you realize Sensitive's mutant condition is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin and even throwing blades of grass at him hurts him. And Sensitive was also naked.[[/note]]



* Played with in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8514416/1/Shielded-Under-the-Raptor-s-Wings Shielded Under the Raptor's Wings]]'': the author seems to be of the opininion that more advanced isn't always better, so, depending on the situation, it can be played straight or {{Subverted}}:

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* Played with in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8514416/1/Shielded-Under-the-Raptor-s-Wings Shielded Under the Raptor's Wings]]'': the author seems to be of the opininion opinion that more advanced isn't always better, so, depending on the situation, it can be played straight or {{Subverted}}:{{subverted|Trope}}:



** {{Subverted}} between Alpha Quadrant ships and what the ''Babylon 5'' factions have, as a number of various technical advances give the Alpha Quadrant ships firepower comparable or superior to the Minbari ones and shields strong enough to resist it while much smaller;
*** [[ZigZaggedTrope Zig-zagged]] with the old fusion-powered Romulan ships still in service and the rest of the Alpha Quadrant ships (including the newer Romulan ships), all powered by antimatter: the antimatter-powered ships are slightly more powerful and the fusion reactors of the older Romulan ships are much larger and with smaller fuel reserves to compete, but the fusion-powered ships don't suffer of the antimatter shortage.
** Played straight when the [=EarthForce=] army fights the Minbari one. Human weapons are mostly [=BiL-Pro=] (that is, improved ''firearms'') or missiles, with the only advanced weapons being vehicle-mounted energy machine guns, [[FrickinLaserBeams laser cannons]] for use against enemy aircrafts and [[ShootTheBullet artillery shells]], and newly-introduced tank railguns, and their ground vehicles move on tracks. Minbari weapons are mostly energy except for their artillery, that fires {{Antimatter}}-loaded shells by gravity manipulation, and their vehicles [[HoverTank move the same way]]. On the other hand, the former designed their equipment basing themselves on battlefield experience and are quite good at using it, while the Minbari, in their arrogance, took a long series of stupid decisions (their main tank is criticized for having its main gun fixed forward, an heat signature that makes it impossible to hide to anyone with even the most primitive heat-seeking missile, the gravity-manipulating equipment put in an unarmoured fin, and the armour plating being mechanically fragile and vulnerable to kinetic energy weapons that on the ground are used by pretty much everyone, while the antimatter-firing artillery is called out on the impracticality of only using antimatter as the shell filling) and didn't train their soldiers adequately, who had to learn how to fight effectively on the field. This results in [=EarthForce=] resisting the Minbari invasion of Cyrus for ''years'' in spite of the latter having [[OrbitalBombardment orbital superiority and limited starship support]], and once the starship support is eliminated the Minbari get [[CurbStompBattle annihilated]];
** Partially {{Subverted}} by the Windsword assault tank, that is explicitely better armed and armoured than anything in the [=EarthForce=] arsenal in spite of being just a ''FlawedPrototype'' rushed into production (the final product would be much superior). This comes from another instance of the trope being played straight: over two centuries earlier, Minbari analysts warned that their ground equipment was outmatched by what the Centauri and Orieni had for the same reasons it's outmatched by [=EarthForce=] equipment but were ignored until the Windsword clan, to shut them up, decided to verify and [[OhCrap saw they were right]], at which point they started a development program for a new tank with improved protection and a better and turreted main gun, with the assault tank having been literally cobbled together from the still incomplete new technologies at the start of the war to have something not completely outmatched by [=EarthForce=] vehicles;
** {{Subverted}} by the Alpha Quadrant ground forces: they're not seen in action, but the narration points out their equipment was designed well with superior technology than either the Minbari or Earth Alliance, with their artillery having various kinds of cheap but extremely effective munitions, Klingon tanks having coil guns and being {{Hover Tank}}s, and Federation hover tanks having phaser cannons and DeflectorShields. Also partially played straight, as the kinds of munitions available to Alpha Quadrant artillery include "the primitive but capable high explosive-fragmentation shells" (first fielded in ''1887'' in RealLife).

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** {{Subverted}} {{Subverted|Trope}} between Alpha Quadrant ships and what the ''Babylon 5'' factions have, as a number of various technical advances give the Alpha Quadrant ships firepower comparable or superior to the Minbari ones and shields strong enough to resist it while much smaller;
*** [[ZigZaggedTrope [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] with the old fusion-powered Romulan ships still in service and the rest of the Alpha Quadrant ships (including the newer Romulan ships), all powered by antimatter: the antimatter-powered ships are slightly more powerful and the fusion reactors of the older Romulan ships are much larger and with smaller fuel reserves to compete, but the fusion-powered ships don't suffer of the antimatter shortage.
** Played straight when the [=EarthForce=] army fights the Minbari one. Human weapons are mostly [=BiL-Pro=] (that is, improved ''firearms'') or missiles, with the only advanced weapons being vehicle-mounted energy machine guns, [[FrickinLaserBeams laser cannons]] for use against enemy aircrafts and [[ShootTheBullet artillery shells]], and newly-introduced tank railguns, and their ground vehicles move on tracks. Minbari weapons are mostly energy except for their artillery, that fires {{Antimatter}}-loaded shells by gravity manipulation, and their vehicles [[HoverTank move the same way]]. On the other hand, the former designed their equipment basing themselves on battlefield experience and are quite good at using it, while the Minbari, in their arrogance, took a long series of stupid decisions (their main tank is criticized for having its main gun fixed forward, an heat signature that makes it impossible to hide to anyone with even the most primitive heat-seeking missile, the gravity-manipulating equipment put in an unarmoured fin, and the armour plating being mechanically fragile and vulnerable to kinetic energy weapons that on the ground are used by pretty much everyone, while the antimatter-firing artillery is called out on the impracticality of only using antimatter as the shell filling) and didn't train their soldiers adequately, who had to learn how to fight effectively on the field. This results in [=EarthForce=] resisting the Minbari invasion of Cyrus for ''years'' in spite of the latter having [[OrbitalBombardment orbital superiority and limited starship support]], and once the starship support is eliminated the Minbari get [[CurbStompBattle annihilated]];
annihilated]].
** Partially {{Subverted}} {{subverted|Trope}} by the Windsword assault tank, that is explicitely explicitly better armed and armoured than anything in the [=EarthForce=] arsenal in spite of being just a ''FlawedPrototype'' rushed into production (the final product would be much superior). This comes from another instance of the trope being played straight: over two centuries earlier, Minbari analysts warned that their ground equipment was outmatched by what the Centauri and Orieni had for the same reasons it's outmatched by [=EarthForce=] equipment but were ignored until the Windsword clan, to shut them up, decided to verify and [[OhCrap saw they were right]], at which point they started a development program for a new tank with improved protection and a better and turreted main gun, with the assault tank having been literally cobbled together from the still incomplete new technologies at the start of the war to have something not completely outmatched by [=EarthForce=] vehicles;
** {{Subverted}} {{Subverted|Trope}} by the Alpha Quadrant ground forces: they're not seen in action, but the narration points out their equipment was designed well with superior technology than either the Minbari or Earth Alliance, with their artillery having various kinds of cheap but extremely effective munitions, Klingon tanks having coil guns and being {{Hover Tank}}s, and Federation hover tanks having phaser cannons and DeflectorShields. Also partially played straight, as the kinds of munitions available to Alpha Quadrant artillery include "the primitive but capable high explosive-fragmentation shells" (first fielded in ''1887'' in RealLife).



* Used in ''Film/{{Avatar}}''. On the one hand, when the Na'vi fire up at human vehicles, their arrows do little more than scratch the windows. On the other hand, arrows fired at a right angle from power-diving [[GiantFlyer ikrans]] ''can'' punch through aircraft canopies ([[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour which is]] TruthInTelevision). But on the ''other'' other hand, [[spoiler:the Na'vi still get their blue butts kicked by machine guns and missiles, at least until [[GaiasVengeance the planet itself sends its wildlife in as reserve]]. Turns out rocks can't beat mecha -- but a stampede of armored rhinos that shrug off gunfire like a gentle shower ''can''.]]

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* Used in ''Film/{{Avatar}}''. On the one hand, when the Na'vi fire up at human vehicles, their arrows do little more than scratch the windows. On the other hand, arrows fired at a right angle from power-diving [[GiantFlyer ikrans]] ''can'' punch through aircraft canopies ([[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour which is]] TruthInTelevision). But on the ''other'' other hand, [[spoiler:the Na'vi still get their blue butts kicked by machine guns and missiles, at least until [[GaiasVengeance the planet itself sends its wildlife in as reserve]]. Turns out rocks can't beat mecha -- but a stampede of armored rhinos that shrug off gunfire like a gentle shower ''can''.]]''can'']].



* The Battle of Yonkers in ''Literature/WorldWarZ'' could be considers an extreme example of this trope, in that living soldiers armed with every state-of-the-art weapon their publicity-minded superiors can load them down with get their asses kicked by zombies armed with ... teeth and jagged nails. Indeed, the advanced-''against-humans'' nature of their weapons makes the soldiers' attacks far less effective than simple bolt-action rifles would've been, as they fire in shaky bursts aiming for the head, and their sophisticated communication links only serve to spread panic, as they can see and hear their comrades being eaten. Eventually, someone realises the problem and "invents" the Lobotomiser--more or less a modified shovel. Its simplicity and effectiveness restored troop confidence in a big way. Yonkers was explicitly a tactical failure rather than a technology failure. Later on they start forming phalanxes of soldiers armed with single-shot semiautomatic rifles with UsefulNotes/WW2-style furniture, and no accessories other than 3 barrels and an 8-inch bayonet. ''It works.''

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* The Battle of Yonkers in ''Literature/WorldWarZ'' could be considers an extreme example of this trope, in that living soldiers armed with every state-of-the-art weapon their publicity-minded superiors can load them down with get their asses kicked by zombies armed with ... teeth and jagged nails. Indeed, the advanced-''against-humans'' nature of their weapons makes the soldiers' attacks far less effective than simple bolt-action rifles would've been, as they fire in shaky bursts aiming for the head, and their sophisticated communication links only serve to spread panic, as they can see and hear their comrades being eaten. Eventually, someone realises the problem and "invents" the Lobotomiser--more or less a modified shovel. Its simplicity and effectiveness restored troop confidence in a big way. Yonkers was explicitly a tactical failure rather than a technology failure. Later on they start forming phalanxes of soldiers armed with single-shot semiautomatic rifles with UsefulNotes/WW2-style UsefulNotes/{{W|orldWarII}}W2-style furniture, and no accessories other than 3 barrels and an 8-inch bayonet. ''It works.''



--->We were defeated by one thing only -- by the inferior science of our enemies. I repeat -- by the ''inferior'' science of our enemies.

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--->We -->We were defeated by one thing only -- by the inferior science of our enemies. I repeat -- by the ''inferior'' science of our enemies.



* In Creator/PoulAnderson's "Literature/TimeLag", Vaynamo isn't even that primitive, though it lacks industry. The heavily overpopulated Chertkoi assumes it will be easy because it is still heavily rural.

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* Creator/PoulAnderson
**
In Creator/PoulAnderson's "Literature/TimeLag", "Literature/TimeLag" Vaynamo isn't even that primitive, though it lacks industry. The heavily overpopulated Chertkoi assumes it will be easy because it is still heavily rural.rural.
** In ''Sargasso of Lost Starships'', the aliens have superhuman PsychicPowers. They can turn back guns. Donovan alerts the soldiers that spears are more dangerous, and they ready them.



* In ''Literature/TheLostRegiment'', the planet Valennia has long been stuck in a MedievalStasis, with the 9-foot-tall HumanoidAliens who rule the planet and constantly migrate in massive [[TheHorde Hordes]] keeping their "cattle" (their word for humans) at primitive levels and periodically culling the population to [[IAmAHumanitarian keep the Hordes fed]]. Then one of the Tunnels of Light (the remains of a PortalNetwork built millennia ago by the ancestors of the aliens) brings to Valennia a group of [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar American Civil War]] soldiers with their weapons and industrial experience. However, this trope is only partly played straight, as muskets and cannons can, at best, even the odds against the experienced mounted warriors of the Hordes, whose skills with bows and swords are unparalleled. Not to mention the sheer numbers of the Horde compared to the humans (the Hordes normally count their warriors in "umens"; each umen is 10,000 warriors), most of whom are untrained, illiterate peasants.

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* In ''Literature/TheLostRegiment'', the planet Valennia has long been stuck in a MedievalStasis, with the 9-foot-tall HumanoidAliens who rule the planet and constantly migrate in massive [[TheHorde Hordes]] keeping their "cattle" (their word for humans) at primitive levels and periodically culling the population to [[IAmAHumanitarian [[ImAHumanitarian keep the Hordes fed]]. Then one of the Tunnels of Light (the remains of a PortalNetwork built millennia ago by the ancestors of the aliens) brings to Valennia a group of [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar American Civil War]] soldiers with their weapons and industrial experience. However, this trope is only partly played straight, as muskets and cannons can, at best, even the odds against the experienced mounted warriors of the Hordes, whose skills with bows and swords are unparalleled. Not to mention the sheer numbers of the Horde compared to the humans (the Hordes normally count their warriors in "umens"; each umen is 10,000 warriors), most of whom are untrained, illiterate peasants.



* Creator/PoulAnderson's
** In ''Sargasso of Lost Starships'', the aliens have superhuman PsychicPowers. They can turn back guns. Donovan alerts the soldiers that spears are more dangerous, and they ready them.



* In Christopher G. Nuttal's ''Literature/ArkRoyal'' the titular starship is decades obsolete with its mass drivers instead of EnergyWeapons and armor so heavy it can barely move. But then humanity gets into a war with aliens whose weapons cut unarmored modern ships to pieces and the Admiralty brings the Ark Royal back into service believing that its armor will allow it to withstand alien attacks and its [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter rock-chuckers]] can take out the enemy's ships with ease.

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* In Christopher G. Nuttal's ''Literature/ArkRoyal'' the titular starship is decades obsolete with its mass drivers instead of EnergyWeapons {{Energy Weapon}}s and armor so heavy it can barely move. But then humanity gets into a war with aliens whose weapons cut unarmored modern ships to pieces and the Admiralty brings the Ark Royal back into service believing that its armor will allow it to withstand alien attacks and its [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter rock-chuckers]] can take out the enemy's ships with ease.



** In ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS10E4PlanetOfTheDaleks Planet of the Daleks]]'', Thals drop rocks on a Dalek rising through a long shaft on antigravity. The rocks, after all, have gravity on their side.

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** In ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS10E4PlanetOfTheDaleks "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS10E4PlanetOfTheDaleks Planet of the Daleks]]'', Daleks]]", Thals drop rocks on a Dalek rising through a long shaft on antigravity. The rocks, after all, have gravity on their side.



* In an episode of ''Series/TheMuppetShow'' where Creator/MarkHamill guest-stars as [[Franchise/StarWars Luke Skywalker]], he is about to vaporize [[DarthVaderClone Dearth Nadir]] only to find that Nader disabled his blaster with a [[DiabolusExMachina technobabble plot device]]. Thankfully, since "Dearth Nadir" is really just Gonzo the Great in a silly mask, Chewbacca proves more than capable of giving him a beatdown. Unfortunately, even Chewbacca is useless against the [[SarcasmMode awesome might]] of [[DreadfulMusician Angus McGonoggle, the Argyle Gargoyle gargling Gershwin]].

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* In an episode of ''Series/TheMuppetShow'' where Creator/MarkHamill guest-stars as [[Franchise/StarWars Luke Skywalker]], he is about to vaporize [[DarthVaderClone Dearth Nadir]] only to find that Nader Nadir disabled his blaster with a [[DiabolusExMachina technobabble plot device]]. Thankfully, since "Dearth Nadir" is really just Gonzo the Great in a silly mask, Chewbacca proves more than capable of giving him a beatdown. Unfortunately, even Chewbacca is useless against the [[SarcasmMode awesome might]] of [[DreadfulMusician Angus McGonoggle, the Argyle Gargoyle gargling Gershwin]].



* ZigZaggedTrope in ''Series/DeadliestWarrior''. The general rule is, the warrior with the clear technology advantage is usually the one who wins in the end (as is the case with [[spoiler:Pirate vs. Knight]], [[spoiler:French Musketeers vs Ming Warriors]], [[spoiler:Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu]] and [[spoiler:Joan of Arc vs. William the Conqueror]]). but occasionally an older weapon manages to outperform a more advanced counterpart in simulation, such as [[spoiler:Theodore Roosevelt's Gatling Gun actually managing to work better than Lawrence of Arabia's UsefulNotes/WW1-era Vickers]]. Sometimes, however, a warrior with more primitive weaponry manages to beat the odds and overcome their more advanced opponents (the [[spoiler:Spartan]], who manages to [[spoiler:defeat both the Ninja and the Samurai, armed with steel weapons and armour, using only bronze-age gear]], and [[spoiler:the Jesse James gang]], who go up against [[spoiler:Al Capone's gang, who have Tommy guns, armed with Civil War-era rifles and revolvers, and win]]).

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* ZigZaggedTrope ZigZaggingTrope in ''Series/DeadliestWarrior''. The general rule is, the warrior with the clear technology advantage is usually the one who wins in the end (as is the case with [[spoiler:Pirate vs. Knight]], [[spoiler:French Musketeers vs Ming Warriors]], [[spoiler:Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu]] and [[spoiler:Joan of Arc vs. William the Conqueror]]). but occasionally an older weapon manages to outperform a more advanced counterpart in simulation, such as [[spoiler:Theodore Roosevelt's Gatling Gun actually managing to work better than Lawrence of Arabia's UsefulNotes/WW1-era UsefulNotes/{{W|orldWarI}}W1-era Vickers]]. Sometimes, however, a warrior with more primitive weaponry manages to beat the odds and overcome their more advanced opponents (the [[spoiler:Spartan]], who manages to [[spoiler:defeat both the Ninja and the Samurai, armed with steel weapons and armour, using only bronze-age gear]], and [[spoiler:the Jesse James gang]], who go up against [[spoiler:Al Capone's gang, who have Tommy guns, armed with Civil War-era rifles and revolvers, and win]]).



* Some of the more powerful units in ''TabletopGame/{{Heroscape}}'' are Medieval units or [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution colonial-times]] soldiers who are able to destroy the [[HumongousMecha Soulborgs]]

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* Some of the more powerful units in ''TabletopGame/{{Heroscape}}'' are Medieval units or [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution colonial-times]] soldiers who are able to destroy the [[HumongousMecha Soulborgs]]Soulborgs]].



* In ''Franchise/MassEffect'', this is actually justified- while laser weapons do exist, kinetic energy weapons are more effective shot-for-shot. Thus even in the future, we're still using guns that fire bullets- although now that gun has nearly limitless ammo and is capable of freezing you, setting you on fire, punching through your armor, destroying your shields, increase their mass... That said, in close-range ship-to-ship combat, lasers will literally melt enemy warships, since point-defence lasers ignore kinetic barriers. The series zigzags it--the most technologically advanced weapons are not lasers, but streams of molten metal fired like one. It is absolutely played straight in the third game, however; [[spoiler:the protagonists release a giant Sand Worm to distract the resident technological Eldritch Abomination, and the creature does them one better and manages to kill it. Without assistance. After being hit with one of its weapons nearly point-blank.]]

to:

* In ''Franchise/MassEffect'', this is actually justified- while laser weapons do exist, kinetic energy weapons are more effective shot-for-shot. Thus even in the future, we're still using guns that fire bullets- although now that gun has nearly limitless ammo and is capable of freezing you, setting you on fire, punching through your armor, destroying your shields, increase their mass... That said, in close-range ship-to-ship combat, lasers will literally melt enemy warships, since point-defence lasers ignore kinetic barriers. The series zigzags it--the most technologically advanced weapons are not lasers, but streams of molten metal fired like one. It is absolutely played straight in the third game, however; [[spoiler:the protagonists release a giant Sand Worm to distract the resident technological Eldritch Abomination, and the creature does them one better and manages to kill it. Without assistance. After being hit with one of its weapons nearly point-blank.]]point-blank]].



* You get [[FrickinLaserBeams Blasters]] near the end of ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VII'' (and some other games of the series). Besides incredible accuracy, they are inferior in ''raw'' damage to high-end bows and swords - but they do Energy damage instead of Physical, and the enemies in the area they're supplied for use in have more Physical resistance than they do Energy resistance. Kreegans (known as "devils" among natives) are {{Sufficiently Advanced Alien}}s that use OrganicTechnology' and are quite good at terramorphing. When they tried to conquer Enroth with brute force, they had a hard time dealing with 500 armed men and were completely stopped by [[OurDragonsAreDifferent dragons]] and [[OurGiantsAreBigger titans]] that happened to live in neighborhood; after that, they resorted to infiltrating local society and building their own [[ReligionOfEvil cult]]. Those that landed on Antagarich did a lot better due to being more numberous and willing to ally with some natives; nonetheless, they went from posing a major threat to desperately struggling for power to losing any importance and becoming simple mercenaries in less than a decade.

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* You get [[FrickinLaserBeams Blasters]] near the end of ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VII'' (and some other games of the series). Besides incredible accuracy, they are inferior in ''raw'' damage to high-end bows and swords - but they do Energy damage instead of Physical, and the enemies in the area they're supplied for use in have more Physical resistance than they do Energy resistance. Kreegans (known as "devils" among natives) are {{Sufficiently Advanced Alien}}s that use OrganicTechnology' and are quite good at terramorphing. When they tried to conquer Enroth with brute force, they had a hard time dealing with 500 armed men and were completely stopped by [[OurDragonsAreDifferent dragons]] and [[OurGiantsAreBigger titans]] that happened to live in neighborhood; after that, they resorted to infiltrating local society and building their own [[ReligionOfEvil cult]]. Those that landed on Antagarich did a lot better due to being more numberous numerous and willing to ally with some natives; nonetheless, they went from posing a major threat to desperately struggling for power to losing any importance and becoming simple mercenaries in less than a decade.



** The sequel, ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' features [[spoiler:the Minutemen's defeat of the Brotherhood of Steel. The Brotherhood's CoolAirship, the ''Prydwen'', and all its PowerArmor soldiers laid low by a band of wasteland militiamen and their primitive WW1-era artillery guns.]]

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** The sequel, ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' features [[spoiler:the Minutemen's defeat of the Brotherhood of Steel. The Brotherhood's CoolAirship, the ''Prydwen'', and all its PowerArmor PoweredArmor soldiers laid low by a band of wasteland militiamen and their primitive WW1-era UsefulNotes/{{W|orldWarI}}W1-era artillery guns.]]guns]].



* Parodied in ''WesternAnimation/SpongebobSquarepants'' B.C. (Before Comedy), in which a caveman's curiosity about a robot activates its [[EyeBeams defense mechanisms]]. The caveman later responds by throwing large rocks at it; for the rest of the fight, they seem evenly matched.

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* Parodied in ''WesternAnimation/SpongebobSquarepants'' ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants'' B.C. (Before Comedy), in which a caveman's curiosity about a robot activates its [[EyeBeams defense mechanisms]]. The caveman later responds by throwing large rocks at it; for the rest of the fight, they seem evenly matched.



** During the Philippine-American War, Filipino fighters (largely armed with swords and machetes) resisted gunfire from the newly-introduced .38 Long Colt revolver by wrapping ropes around their bodies, which helped staunch bleeding and may have even ''deflected'' bullets. Even after taking direct hits, the natives were still in fine condition to rip apart their colonizers. Many no doubt died of blood loss later, but that didn't do the American soldiers they'd hacked up in the meantime any good. This forced the U.S. to bring the recently retired .45 Long Colt revolvers back into service, as a stop-gap until newer firearms and ammunition could be introduced. This led directly to the [[LongRunner M1911 .45 semi-automatic pistol]] and the .45ACP cartridge, to give both more shots and greater stopping power than the older revolvers.

to:

** During the Philippine-American War, Filipino fighters (largely armed with swords and machetes) resisted gunfire from the newly-introduced .38 Long Colt revolver by wrapping ropes around their bodies, which helped staunch bleeding and may have even ''deflected'' bullets. Even after taking direct hits, the natives were still in fine condition to rip apart their colonizers. Many no doubt died of blood loss later, but that didn't do the American soldiers they'd hacked up in the meantime any good. This forced the U.S. to bring the recently retired .45 Long Colt revolvers back into service, as a stop-gap until newer firearms and ammunition could be introduced. This led directly to the [[LongRunner [[LongRunners M1911 .45 semi-automatic pistol]] and the .45ACP cartridge, to give both more shots and greater stopping power than the older revolvers.



* At the UsefulNotes/AmericanCivilWar Battle of Second Bull Run, Confederate troops ran out of ammunition and repulsed several Union attacks with hand-thrown rocks.

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* At [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar the UsefulNotes/AmericanCivilWar Second Battle of Second Bull Run, Run]], Confederate troops ran out of ammunition and repulsed several Union attacks with hand-thrown rocks.
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