History Main / ReliablyUnreliableGuns

22nd Mar '17 4:46:47 PM CountDorku
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** PlayedForLaughs with two guns in the series: "Miss Moxxi's Crit" in the ''Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep'' DLC falls out of your hands one reload in every ten and has to be recovered, and the Tediore "Boxxy Gunn" in ''VideoGame/BoderlandsThePreSequel'' is prone to exploding in your hands if reloaded prematurely.
7th Mar '17 4:29:27 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** The Type 14 Nambu itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.

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** The Type 14 Nambu Nambu, the official Japanese service pistol throughout the 1930s and WW2, was itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.
7th Mar '17 4:28:41 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** The Type 14 Nambu itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to purchase their own sidearms, such as the FN [=M1910=], or draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.

to:

** The Type 14 Nambu itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to purchase their own sidearms, such as the FN [=M1910=], or draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.
7th Mar '17 4:26:12 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** The Type 14 Nambu itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8mm round it fired was both underpowered and ill suited to the weapon, causing it to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the soldier would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''.

to:

** The Type 14 Nambu itself was an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8mm 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill suited ill-suited to the weapon, causing it some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the soldier officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to purchase their own sidearms, such as the FN [=M1910=], or draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.
7th Mar '17 4:22:55 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitra_Variara Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, while the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.

to:

** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitra_Variara Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, as well as having an astonishing maximum range of 250 meters (most other submachine guns could only reach up to a 100 meters, while the Thompson could reach up to 150), to the point where Allied and German soldiers would drop their own submachine guns in a hurry if they could get their hands on an MAB [=38A=]. While less well-known, the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.



** This is partly justified in the fact that the Sten was designed to be produced cheaply and quickly. Because Britain needed to replace all of the weapons they left behind during the evacuation of mainland Europe, quality took a backseat to quantity.

to:

** This is partly justified in the fact that the Sten was designed to be produced cheaply and quickly. Because Britain needed to replace all of the weapons they left behind during the evacuation of mainland Europe, quality took a backseat to quantity. Once the threat of a German invasion of Britain began to decrease, the Sten's quality slowly rose to higher levels.
5th Mar '17 10:51:01 AM Morgenthaler
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*** A closer example is, in fact, that so many game/film characters hold the [=MP40=] and Sten by the magazine. In reality, that is a very good way to make them jam (which is why the [[IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles Haganah and IDF]], which relied on Sten guns during and in the run-up to the [[ArabIsraeliConflict Israeli War of Independence]] in 1948, drilled it into their soldiers ''never'' to do this). The proper "foregrip" of an [=MP40=] (which is otherwise a highly reliable SMG) is to hold the magazine ''well'' firmly with the index finger and thumb. Or between the mag well and the trigger guard. The Sten? Well, there's not really anywhere comfortable to grip (with ''either'' hand) on the MK II and Mk III versions. Unless you have the Canadian Mk II, whose wire stock/grip at least doesn't look like something a sadist would design. Wrapping leather around the barrel shroud and the grip might be a good idea, though. Holding onto the magazine was however [[TruthInTelevision quite common among both British and German troops during WW2]] regardless of it being a bad idea, as can be seen in a variety of period photographs.

to:

*** A closer example is, in fact, that so many game/film characters hold the [=MP40=] and Sten by the magazine. In reality, that is a very good way to make them jam (which is why the [[IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles [[UsefulNotes/IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles Haganah and IDF]], which relied on Sten guns during and in the run-up to the [[ArabIsraeliConflict [[UsefulNotes/ArabIsraeliConflict Israeli War of Independence]] in 1948, drilled it into their soldiers ''never'' to do this). The proper "foregrip" of an [=MP40=] (which is otherwise a highly reliable SMG) is to hold the magazine ''well'' firmly with the index finger and thumb. Or between the mag well and the trigger guard. The Sten? Well, there's not really anywhere comfortable to grip (with ''either'' hand) on the MK II and Mk III versions. Unless you have the Canadian Mk II, whose wire stock/grip at least doesn't look like something a sadist would design. Wrapping leather around the barrel shroud and the grip might be a good idea, though. Holding onto the magazine was however [[TruthInTelevision quite common among both British and German troops during WW2]] regardless of it being a bad idea, as can be seen in a variety of period photographs.
17th Feb '17 2:57:21 AM mirh
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** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variara_submachine_gun Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, while the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.

to:

** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[http://en.[[https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variara_submachine_gun org/wiki/Mitra_Variara Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, while the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.
6th Jan '17 12:11:33 AM tommythegun
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* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be phased out of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world. As of 2016, H&K is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.

to:

* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be [[http://www.dw.com/en/heckler-koch-g36-the-rifle-held-in-all-the-wrong-places/a-18402772 phased out out]] of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot.hot, and can cause rounds to drop off target as much as 50 centimeters at a distance of 200 meters or 6 meters at 500 meters. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world. As of 2016, H&K is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.
6th Jan '17 12:01:34 AM tommythegun
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* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be phased out of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world, and who is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.

to:

* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be phased out of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world, and who world. As of 2016, H&K is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.
6th Jan '17 12:00:33 AM tommythegun
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be phased out of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world, and given that the G36 had undergone more than 20 years of development, and who is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.

to:

* The Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, which is the standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr and is used by military and police forces in more than 40 other countries, is as of 2015 to be phased out of Bundeswehr service by 2019, and will probably be phased out elsewhere, due to concerns over accuracy dropping significantly under sustained firing. The culprit in this case is under-engineering to save weight, leaving a too thin free-floating barrel that droops when hot supported by polymers that soften when hot. This is a significant black eye for H&K, which had been long considered a highly reputable manufacturer that supplies arms in particular to top-tier special operations forces around the world, and given that the G36 had undergone more than 20 years of development, and who is litigating the matter in court to lay the blame with the German government.
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