History Main / ReliablyUnreliableGuns

16th Jul '17 11:56:33 AM nombretomado
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** The Type 14 Nambu, the official Japanese service pistol throughout the 1930s and WW2, was itself an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.

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** The Type 14 Nambu, the official Japanese service pistol throughout the 1930s and WW2, [=WW2=], was itself an ''adequate'' enough weapon, though wholly unremarkable. The 8x22mm Nambu round it fired was both underpowered and ill-suited to the weapon, causing some to hiccup and jam after more then a few shots; otherwise it would have been a decent weapon. Oh, and the firing pin was also somewhat fragile...and instead of implementing Colonel Nambu's rather simple fix to this one, they just ''issued spare firing pins'', with the expectation that when one broke the officer would ''disassemble his gun and replace the pin in the middle of combat''. No surprise that many chose to draw their sword when their Nambu jammed.
16th Jul '17 11:56:23 AM nombretomado
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* Jams happen periodically in ''Series/BandOfBrothers''. The characters usually get to work clearing them, sometimes having trouble with it and sometimes not. All the actors were trained in WW2 weapons handling (as their characters would have been) so, as in real life, the ability to sort out a jam would depend on the actor's own weapon skill. Not to mention their concentration. Many of the times that jams weren't quickly handled occurred under fire, when [[EnforcedMethodActing both actor and character would find it hard to focus]].

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* Jams happen periodically in ''Series/BandOfBrothers''. The characters usually get to work clearing them, sometimes having trouble with it and sometimes not. All the actors were trained in WW2 [=WW2=] weapons handling (as their characters would have been) so, as in real life, the ability to sort out a jam would depend on the actor's own weapon skill. Not to mention their concentration. Many of the times that jams weren't quickly handled occurred under fire, when [[EnforcedMethodActing both actor and character would find it hard to focus]].
13th Jul '17 8:29:32 AM dlchen145
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* In a subversion to this trope (and the general stereotype of World War II Japanese weapons being horrible), the Type 96 and 99 light machine guns (inspired by the Czechoslovakian Vz.26 light machine gun, an influental machine gun that also was the basis for the excellent Bren light machine gun) were one of the few Japanese weapons to work reliably. In fact these two weapons were feared on the battlefield, particularly for their accuracy; a skilled operator could lay deadly hailstorms of bullets from a concealed position (like in Iwo Jima where several concealed gunners inflicted heavy casualties to a Marine fire team or two). A special 2.5x optical scope was also sometimes attached to create, essentially, an automatic sniper rifle. The Type 96, however, was still an example, as it still had an oil pump (intended to ensure reliable feeding) that sucked up dirt and grime like a vacuum cleaner, rendering the gun prone to jamming. The later Type 99 lacked the oil pump and its assorted problems.



** The bipods were all integrally attached to the quick-change barrels, meaning that gunners can't keep them on target during barrel changes. There was also no way for gunners to change the hot gun barrel without physically grabbing it with their hands, which necessitated the issuing of asbestos gloves to gun crews. If that weren't bad enough, the barrels all have non adjustable front sights, meaning that it is impossible to consistently hold zero between different barrels. This is in stark contrast to the MG 42's excellent quick-change barrel system which didn't involve touching the hot barrel and did not have the bipod or the front sight attached to the barrel.

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** The bipods were all integrally attached to the quick-change barrels, meaning that gunners can't keep them on target during barrel changes. There was also no way for gunners to change the hot gun barrel without physically grabbing it with their hands, which necessitated the issuing of asbestos gloves to gun crews. If that weren't bad enough, the barrels all have non adjustable front sights, meaning that it is impossible to consistently hold zero between different barrels. This is in stark contrast to the MG 42's excellent quick-change barrel system which didn't involve touching the hot barrel and did not have the bipod or the front sight attached to the barrel.
9th Jul '17 7:31:50 AM LTR
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** German G7e torpedoes [[http://www.uboataces.com/articles-wooden-torpedoes.shtml had notorious problems]] with magnetic detonators. The torpedoes tended either to ignore the magnetic field of the target completely, or be too sensitive and explode prematurely. The problem was so dire the German U-boat captains prefered to use thier deck guns when feasible or lay mines. As Günther Prien said to Admiral Dönitz: ''Herr Admiral, I cannot shoot with a wooden rifle!''. [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure Dönitz had the G7e thoroughly tested]], and answered: ''I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon''. Discounting marginal attacks, Dönitz concluded that poor-quality torpedoes had cost U-boats one battleship, seven cruisers, seven destroyers, and five transports.

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** German G7e torpedoes [[http://www.uboataces.com/articles-wooden-torpedoes.shtml had notorious problems]] with magnetic detonators. The torpedoes tended either to ignore the magnetic field of the target completely, or be too sensitive and explode prematurely. The problem was so dire the German U-boat captains prefered to use thier their deck guns when feasible or lay mines. As Famed U-Boat Captain Günther Prien said compared them to Admiral Dönitz: ''Herr Admiral, I cannot trying to shoot with a wooden rifle!''. [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure Dönitz had the G7e thoroughly tested]], and answered: ''I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon''. Discounting marginal attacks, Dönitz rifle. A study ordered by Admiral Karl Donitz concluded that poor-quality torpedoes had cost U-boats one battleship, seven cruisers, seven destroyers, and five transports.



** The American [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13_torpedo Bliss-Leavitt Mk. XIII Aerial Torpedo]], used on airplanes, was the epitome of a reliably unreliable ordnance. It either ran straight to the sea bottom, exploded on surface when dropped, ran circles, or did not explode at all at point of contact. In mid-1943 an analysis of 105 torpedoes dropped at speeds in excess of 150 knots showed clearly why aviators distrusted the Mark 13: 36 percent ran cold, 20 percent sank, 20 percent had poor deflection performance, 18 percent gave unsatisfactory depth performance, 2 percent ran on the surface, and only 31 percent gave a satisfactory run. It has been estimated that only 1 in 12 actually worked as designed. It was so unreliable that pilots eventually ''simply refused'' to carry it into battle and insisted on bombs. The problems of the Mk. XIII wouldn't be fully resolved until 1944. As an anecdote, three Japanese sailors from the aircraft carrier ''Kaga'' were rescued at Midway ''riding a dud Mk. XIII'' - its warhead had broken on contact and sunk. The rest of the torpedo had surfaced, becoming effectively a life preserve.

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** The American [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13_torpedo Bliss-Leavitt Mk. XIII Aerial Torpedo]], used on airplanes, was the epitome of a reliably unreliable ordnance. It either ran straight to the sea bottom, exploded on surface when dropped, ran circles, or did not explode at all at point of contact. In mid-1943 an analysis of 105 torpedoes dropped at speeds in excess of 150 knots showed clearly why aviators distrusted the Mark 13: 36 percent ran cold, 20 percent sank, 20 percent had poor deflection performance, 18 percent gave unsatisfactory depth performance, 2 percent ran on the surface, and only 31 percent gave a satisfactory run. It has been estimated that only 1 in 12 actually worked as designed.designed with every failure imaginable being reported from sinking straight to the bottom upon launch to running itself in circles. It was so unreliable that pilots eventually ''simply refused'' to carry it into battle and insisted on bombs. The problems of the Mk. XIII wouldn't be fully resolved until 1944. As an anecdote, three Japanese sailors from the aircraft carrier ''Kaga'' were rescued at Midway ''riding a dud Mk. XIII'' - its warhead had broken on contact and sunk. The rest of the torpedo had surfaced, becoming effectively a life preserve.preserver.
7th Jul '17 1:00:22 AM ArJayKay
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* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units - and never noticing this until well ''after'' the war - meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). Worse is that vastly superior options to the M1918 Chauchat existed at the time, such as the Lewis gun (ignored because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked Colonel Lewis]]) or the Browning Automatic Rifle (not issued because, it being an indigenous American design, the AEF [[PatrioticFervor thought it a far better weapon than it actually was]] and was fearful of the enemy stealing and reverse-engineering it).

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* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units - and never noticing this until well ''after'' the war - meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). Worse is that vastly superior options to the M1918 Chauchat existed at the time, such as the Lewis gun (ignored because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked the weapon's designer, Colonel Isaac Lewis]]) or the Browning Automatic Rifle (not issued in large numbers because, it being an indigenous American design, the AEF [[PatrioticFervor thought it a far better weapon than it actually was]] and was fearful of the enemy stealing and reverse-engineering it).
6th Jul '17 3:12:53 PM Kadorhal
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* The [=M16=] assault rifle, early in its life, had this reputation as well. The direct impingement gas system introduced carbon fouling and propellant gases into the rifle's interior, and to make things worse, the powder used at the time was dirtier-burning, worsening the problem. It didn't help that the rifle, back then, lacked a forward assist (rendering it totally inoperable when it jammed) and were issued without cleaning kits and/or cleaning instructions (due to a rumor that the rifle was "self-cleaning" when no weapon is or ''ever has been, even today'') and lacked chroming of the bore and chamber. While quickly fixed (by 1968, around two years after the first adoption) the rifle still had it's NeverLiveItDown reputation, especially for the direct impingement system it used.

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* The [=M16=] M16 assault rifle, early in its life, had this reputation as well. The direct impingement gas system introduced carbon fouling and propellant gases into the rifle's interior, interior by directly blowing some of the gas from firing against the bolt, and to make things worse, the powder used at the time was dirtier-burning, dirtier-burning than the rifle had been designed for, worsening the problem. It didn't help that the rifle, back then, lacked a forward assist (rendering it totally inoperable when it jammed) and were issued without cleaning kits and/or cleaning instructions (due to a rumor false advertisement that the rifle was "self-cleaning" when no weapon is or ''ever has been, even today'') today''; part of this was intentional sabotage from the Army Ordnance Board, who wanted to go back to the 7.62mm M14 battle rifle) and lacked chroming of the bore and chamber. While quickly fixed (by 1968, around two years after the first adoption) the rifle still had it's its NeverLiveItDown reputation, especially for the direct impingement system it used.


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* Guns on aircraft came back into use when, based on experience with the Crusader, the Air Force tried to make later aircraft like the F-4 Phantom II use only missiles. The missile of choice, the AIM-9 Sidewinder, ended up being an incredibly finicky and temperamental weapon, which would often fail to launch entirely, would launch but fail to actually track the target in question, or would switch from tracking the heat of the target's jet exhaust to tracking the heat from the jungle canopy below and hit the ground - leaving them totally at the mercy of Vietnamese [=MiGs=], which still had cannons. Other missiles available at the time were even worse - the AIM-4 Falcon had a field of view wide enough that it often couldn't actually maneuver to hit the target, no proximity fuse (requiring direct hits to detonate, rather than the Sidewinder being able to blow up when it was close enough that it would still damage the target), and a smaller nitrogen bottle to cool the seeker (giving it a much shorter useful time window). The AIM-7 Sparrow fixed issues with heat-seekers by being radar-guided, but lead to its own slew of problems: the pilot had to look down into the cockpit (thus away from where he was actually going) to aim the missile properly, he had to keep his plane pointed towards the target for the radar to continue tracking the target, and its significantly longer range meant that it was impossible, in the days before IFF systems, to determine if the target was actually the enemy if they were beyond visual range. The Sparrow lives on, but only in naval use as the surface-to-air RIM-7 Sea Sparrow; for airborne usage it was replaced by the AIM-120 AMRAAM (which utilizes its own internal radar to guide it, rather than relying on the aircraft's radar), while the Falcon was abandoned entirely in favor of the Sidewinder.
6th Jul '17 2:28:21 PM Kadorhal
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** Particularly notable in ''Far Cry 2'' is how little time a gun actually lasts; it can go from a shining, brand-new weapon to a stained, corroded wreck within hours at best, with some weapons like the USAS-12 ''visibly'' corroding with every shot (the Dart Rifle actually takes, at best with the reliability upgrade, ''thirty'' shots to blow up). The vast majority of guns in this game must be held together with nothing more than chewing gum and reassuring platitudes; that or the ''[=FC2=]'' universe is afflicted by turbo-rust. Another extremely silly aspect of this mechanic is that jams always happen before a gun fires while failures always happen afterwards, meaning the player character will operate the pump of a shotgun before shooting so it can jam (even though they already did so after the last shot) or a weapon will successfully fire, cycle, and ''then'' explode. And despite supposedly being a highly-trained mercenary, the player character has no idea how to maintain their weaponry.

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** Particularly notable in ''Far Cry 2'' is how little time a gun actually lasts; it can go from a shining, brand-new weapon to a stained, corroded wreck within hours at best, with some weapons like the USAS-12 ''visibly'' corroding with every shot (the and the Dart Rifle actually takes, taking, at best with the reliability upgrade, ''thirty'' shots to blow up).up. The vast majority of guns in this game must be held together with nothing more than chewing gum and reassuring platitudes; that or the ''[=FC2=]'' universe is afflicted by turbo-rust. Another extremely silly aspect of this mechanic is that jams always happen before a gun fires while failures always happen afterwards, meaning the player character will operate the pump of a shotgun before shooting so it can jam (even jam, even though they already did so after the last shot) shot, or a weapon will successfully fire, cycle, and ''then'' explode. And despite supposedly being a highly-trained mercenary, the player character has no idea how to maintain their weaponry.weaponry, and must settle for grabbing new weapons off of enemies or from their stash at the arms dealer's place.



* In ''VideoGame/SaintsRow2'', you interrupt the trial of your partner Johnny Gat and hold up a bailiff. At your command, the bailiff drops his gun, which goes off, prompting everyone (except for Gat) to duck for cover and Gat's lawyer to ask if anyone got hit and needs his expertise.

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* In ''VideoGame/SaintsRow2'', you interrupt the trial of your partner Johnny Gat and hold up a bailiff. At your command, the bailiff drops his gun, which goes off, prompting everyone (except for Gat) to duck for cover and cover, with Gat's lawyer popping back up for a moment to ask if anyone got hit and needs his expertise.



* In ''VideoGame/IsleOfTheDead'', the rifle will explode in your face and [[EverythingTryingToKillYou kill you]] as soon as you fire it [[GuideDangIt unless you oil it first]]. [[TrialAndErrorGameplay There's no sign that anything's wrong with it in the first place until you pull the trigger.]]

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* In ''VideoGame/IsleOfTheDead'', the rifle will explode in your face and [[EverythingTryingToKillYou kill you]] as soon as you fire it [[GuideDangIt unless you oil it first]]. [[TrialAndErrorGameplay first. [[GuideDangIt There's no sign that anything's wrong with it it]] in the first place place, [[TrialAndErrorGameplay until you pull the trigger.]]



* In the early "Kenny gets killed in every episode" era of ''WesternAnimation/SouthPark'', Kenny is once killed by a discharge from a guy who is quitting hunting and drops his gun. Which happens to have run out of ammo not thirty seconds earlier, at that.

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* In the early "Kenny gets killed in every episode" era of ''WesternAnimation/SouthPark'', Kenny is once killed by a discharge from a guy who is quitting hunting and drops his gun. Which happens happened to have run out of ammo not thirty seconds earlier, at that.



** The Franchi SPAS-12 originally featured a lever-type safety which, as it aged, would eventually cause the weapon to fire if it was toggled while the weapon was loaded, as well as fail to prevent the gun from firing with it on. A recall order was issued to replace these with a different, more reliable safety, though most of the SPAS-12's in existence still have the original safety -- and even the most recently-produced examples were produced way back in 2000. Also, as a rather minor note given the above, the SPAS-12 also requires the safety off to load shells into it.
** The Remington Model 700 rifle has a reputation for having a highly questionable safety mechanism, which is infamous for either causing the gun to randomly fire, or for not doing anything to keep the gun from firing. The trigger mechanism used on the rifle from its original design to about 2007 also had gained a bit of a reputation for causing the weapon to discharge on its own, though Remington has dismissed these claims, instead blaming negligent users for not properly maintaining their weapons and pointing them directly at other people for extreme lengths of time, even pointing out that some of the claimants admitted to police that they "may have accidentally" pulled the trigger themselves; military rifles based on the Model 700's action, in use by people who have received proper training on how to handle the weapon, continue to use the original trigger mechanism, and it is also still available for custom orders, which most definitely would ''not'' be the case if there were dangerous reliability issues inherent in its design.
* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units, meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). The M1918 Chauchats ended up being used instead of vastly superior options, such as the Lewis gun (ignored because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked Colonel Lewis]]) or the Browning Automatic Rifle (not issued because, it being an indigenous American design, the AEF [[PatrioticFervor thought it a far better weapon than it actually was]] and was fearful of the enemy stealing and reverse-engineering it).

to:

** * The Franchi SPAS-12 originally featured a lever-type safety which, as it aged, would eventually cause the weapon to fire if it was toggled while the weapon was loaded, as well as fail to prevent the gun from firing with it on. A recall order was issued to replace these with a different, more reliable safety, though most of the SPAS-12's in existence still have the original safety -- and even the most recently-produced examples were produced way back in 2000. Also, as a rather minor note given the above, the SPAS-12 also requires the safety off to load shells into it.
** * The Remington Model 700 rifle has a reputation for having a highly questionable safety mechanism, which is infamous for either causing the gun to randomly fire, or for not doing anything to keep the gun from firing.firing while it's engaged. The trigger mechanism used on the rifle from its original design to about 2007 also had gained a bit of a reputation for causing the weapon to discharge on its own, though Remington has dismissed these claims, instead blaming negligent users for not properly maintaining their weapons and pointing them directly at other people for extreme lengths of time, even pointing out that some of the claimants admitted to police that they "may have accidentally" pulled the trigger themselves; military rifles based on the Model 700's action, in use by people who have received proper training on how to handle the weapon, continue to use the original trigger mechanism, and it is also still available for custom orders, which most definitely would ''not'' be the case if there were dangerous reliability issues inherent in its design.
* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units, units - and never noticing this until well ''after'' the war - meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). The M1918 Chauchats ended up being used instead of Worse is that vastly superior options, options to the M1918 Chauchat existed at the time, such as the Lewis gun (ignored because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked Colonel Lewis]]) or the Browning Automatic Rifle (not issued because, it being an indigenous American design, the AEF [[PatrioticFervor thought it a far better weapon than it actually was]] and was fearful of the enemy stealing and reverse-engineering it).



* In a subversion to this trope (and the general stereotype of World War II Japanese weapons being horrible), the Type 96 and 99 light machine guns (inspired by the Czechoslovakian Vz.26 light machine gun, an influental machine gun that also was the basis for the excellent Bren light machine gun) were one of the few Japanese weapons to work reliably. In fact these two weapons were feared on the battlefield, particularly for their accuracy; a skilled operator could lay deadly hailstorms of bullets from a concealed position (like in Iwo Jima where several concealed gunners inflicted heavy casualties to a Marine fire team or two). A special 2.5x optical scope was also sometimes attached to create, essentially, an automatic sniper rifle. The Type 96, however, was still an example, as it still had an oil pump (intended to ensure reliable feeding) that sucks up dirt and grime like a vacuum cleaner, rendering the gun prone to jamming. The later Type 99 lacks the oil pump and it's assorted problems.

to:

* In a subversion to this trope (and the general stereotype of World War II Japanese weapons being horrible), the Type 96 and 99 light machine guns (inspired by the Czechoslovakian Vz.26 light machine gun, an influental machine gun that also was the basis for the excellent Bren light machine gun) were one of the few Japanese weapons to work reliably. In fact these two weapons were feared on the battlefield, particularly for their accuracy; a skilled operator could lay deadly hailstorms of bullets from a concealed position (like in Iwo Jima where several concealed gunners inflicted heavy casualties to a Marine fire team or two). A special 2.5x optical scope was also sometimes attached to create, essentially, an automatic sniper rifle. The Type 96, however, was still an example, as it still had an oil pump (intended to ensure reliable feeding) that sucks sucked up dirt and grime like a vacuum cleaner, rendering the gun prone to jamming. The later Type 99 lacks lacked the oil pump and it's its assorted problems.



* The Ross Rifle, a target and sporting rifle designed by Sir Charles Ross and adopted as a substitute for the Lee-Enfield by the Canadian military before [=WW1=]. The Ross was a pound lighter than the Enfield, and more accurate because it was designed to very tight tolerances.

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* The Ross Rifle, a target and sporting rifle designed by Sir Charles Ross and adopted as a substitute for the Lee-Enfield by the Canadian military before [=WW1=]. The Ross was a pound lighter than the Enfield, and more accurate because it was designed to very tight tolerances. It, however, had several noticeable issues.



** It also suffered from inadequate engineering and poor manufacturing quality. Bolts made from a batch of poor-quality steel would deform in normal use; the chambers were being "pinched" out of specification by the clamp used to screw them into the reciever. Worst of all, the bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would not engage the camming surfaces in the bolt sleeve. It looked correct, and it would close, but it ''would not lock''--and ''the rifle would still fire with an unlocked bolt'', ejecting it backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt wouldn't necessarily be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning]]''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.
** These issues were fixable, and would have been corrected after a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths--but politics prevented this. Canadian Minister of Militia and Defence Sam Hughes, a personal friend of Sir Charles Ross, overstated the rifle's capabilities, covered up its defects, and obstructed efforts to correct its problems until, finally, he was forced out of office by the public scandal and the rifle was taken out of combat service.
** Needless to say, after their first engagement in 1915, Canadian soldiers usually ditched their Ross rifles for Enfields as soon as they could. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** All that said, because the Ross was a fair bit more accurate at range than the Lee-Enfield, it remained a fairly popular rifle for Canadian snipers, who tended to do a better job than the average soldier at keeping their rifles clean and were a lot less likely to assemble the bolt in reverse, thus negating the primary flaw of the design.

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** It also suffered from inadequate engineering and poor manufacturing quality. Bolts made from a batch of poor-quality steel would deform in normal use; the chambers were being "pinched" out of specification by the clamp used to screw them into the reciever. Worst of all, the bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would not engage the camming surfaces in the bolt sleeve. It looked correct, and it would close, but it ''would would not lock''--and ''the lock -- but the rifle would still fire with an unlocked bolt'', bolt, ejecting it backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt wouldn't necessarily actually be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]].place at a very high speed]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning]]''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.
** These issues were fixable, and would have been corrected after a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths--but gunsmiths -- but politics prevented this. Canadian Minister of Militia and Defence Sam Hughes, a personal friend of Sir Charles Ross, overstated the rifle's capabilities, covered up its defects, and obstructed efforts to correct its problems until, finally, he was forced out of office by the public scandal and the rifle was taken out of combat service.
** Needless to say, after their first engagement in 1915, Canadian soldiers usually ditched their Ross rifles for Enfields as soon as they could. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue (training obviously being a much more controlled environment than combat) and their use for that purpose freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** All that said, because the Ross was designed as a target rifle rather than a military one, it was a fair bit more accurate at range than the Lee-Enfield, and so it remained a fairly popular rifle for Canadian snipers, who tended to do a better job than the average soldier at keeping their rifles clean and were a lot less likely to assemble the bolt in reverse, thus negating some of the design's primary flaw flaws... but it'd still jam at the drop of the design.hat even for them if the ammo was less than pristine; while the rifle continued some service well into UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, it was almost entirely limited to branches that ''weren't'' on foreign soil and therefore likely to actually fire the weapon.
6th Jul '17 9:16:12 AM BabyM
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* The Ross Rifle, designed as a substitute for the Lee-Enfield, was used by the Canadian military during [=WW1=]. The Ross was easier to dis/reassemble and a pound lighter than the Enfield, as well as being more accurate. It also was prone to the bolt deforming or falling out, it jammed with the slightest dirt, and the bolt occasionally threw itself out of the gun when fired. Needless to say, the soldiers usually ditched them for Enfields as soon as they got to Europe. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** The Ross Mk III bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would close, but ''would not lock'', but ''the rifle would still fire'', ejecting the bolt backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt won't be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning]]''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.
** Part of the problem was the use of a straight-pull bolt mechanism: this allowed the Ross a shorter cycle time than even the mighty Enfield, but also required a complex system of cams and grooves which became ridiculously stiff with even the slightest mud contamination. Stories exist of soldiers resorting to stomping on the bolt handles of their rifles and still failing to budge them an inch.
** The main reason for the Ross's poor performance was that it was adapted too close to the outbreak of the war and did not have a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths. In peacetime most of the really bad problems would have been quickly addressed as they came up, but during wartime this was a much lengthier and complicated process. In addition wartime shortages meant that some rifle batches were produced with inferior steel which would wear out quicker than expected and cause the rifles to be even more unreliable.

to:

* The Ross Rifle, a target and sporting rifle designed by Sir Charles Ross and adopted as a substitute for the Lee-Enfield, was used Lee-Enfield by the Canadian military during before [=WW1=]. The Ross was easier to dis/reassemble and a pound lighter than the Enfield, as well as being and more accurate. It also accurate because it was prone designed to the bolt deforming or falling out, it jammed with the slightest dirt, and the bolt occasionally threw itself out of the gun when fired. Needless to say, the soldiers usually ditched them for Enfields as soon as they got to Europe. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** The Ross Mk III bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would close, but ''would not lock'', but ''the rifle would still fire'', ejecting the bolt backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt won't be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a
very bad place]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning]]''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.
tight tolerances.
** Part of the problem was the use of a straight-pull bolt mechanism: this allowed the Ross a shorter cycle time than even the mighty Enfield, but also required a complex system of cams and grooves which became ridiculously stiff with even the slightest mud contamination.contamination, and couldn't handle ammunition made to loose tolerances. Stories exist of soldiers resorting to stomping on the bolt handles of their rifles and still failing to budge them an inch.
** The main reason for the Ross's It also suffered from inadequate engineering and poor performance was manufacturing quality. Bolts made from a batch of poor-quality steel would deform in normal use; the chambers were being "pinched" out of specification by the clamp used to screw them into the reciever. Worst of all, the bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would not engage the camming surfaces in the bolt sleeve. It looked correct, and it would close, but it ''would not lock''--and ''the rifle would still fire with an unlocked bolt'', ejecting it backwards with great force. While testing has shown that it the bolt wouldn't necessarily be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]]. This was adapted too close to a fault in the outbreak design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning]]''), and one of the war major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.
** These issues were fixable,
and did not would have been corrected after a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths. In peacetime most gunsmiths--but politics prevented this. Canadian Minister of Militia and Defence Sam Hughes, a personal friend of Sir Charles Ross, overstated the really bad rifle's capabilities, covered up its defects, and obstructed efforts to correct its problems would have been quickly addressed until, finally, he was forced out of office by the public scandal and the rifle was taken out of combat service.
** Needless to say, after their first engagement in 1915, Canadian soldiers usually ditched their Ross rifles for Enfields as soon
as they came up, but during wartime this was a much lengthier could. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and complicated process. In addition wartime shortages meant that some rifle batches were produced with inferior steel which would wear out quicker than expected in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and cause the their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles to be even more unreliable.for the front lines.
5th Jul '17 11:31:36 PM Kadorhal
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* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units, meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). They ended up used anyway, instead of the vastly superior Lewis gun or Browning Automatic Rifle, simply because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked Colonel Lewis]], and worries that the BAR would end up stolen and reverse-engineered.
* A less famous, but no less awful example of light machine gun design was the Italian [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_30 Breda 30]] which saw service in World War 2. Its [[http://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/breda-model-30/ numerous design faults]] teamed up to make it an ''extremely'' unreliable weapon, especially in the desert conditions of North Africa. The gun attempted to use a blowback system of operation to reduce complexity, but using simple blowback for a high pressure rifle round required the rounds to be '''oiled''' to prevent them from being ripped apart during extraction. This didn't always work, leaving the front part of spent casings hopelessly jammed in the chamber, plus the oil attracted dirt into the working areas of the weapon, causing another type of jam. Furthermore the gun used the same bad idea as the Chauchat with an open magazine that invited even ''more'' dirt into the operating mechanism. ''Furthermore'' the closed bolt design reduced air circulation and also put rounds in the chamber at risk of cooking off which could injure or ''kill'' the gunner. Oh, and the magazine was non-detachable, making use of special 20 round strips to reload it which had the effect of drastically slowing the rate of fire. So even when the gun actually managed to fire one would wind up spending most of their time reloading it.

to:

* The Chauchat light machine gun, at least the M1918 variant issued to the American Expeditionary Forces in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. While the original Chauchat did indeed have some problems, most of which had to do with its open-sided magazine and the fact that Gladiator, a bicycle company with no prior firearms experience, was the one handling most of the production, it did not jam after several shots as some pop-historians would have you believe - most instances of them doing so in the modern day are from the simple fact that the weapons are a century old at this point and simply haven't been maintained properly. Most of the weapon's bad reputation comes from the American M1918 version rechambered from the original 8mm Lebel to .30-06 Springfield. The M1918 was, in short, a godawful conversion that didn't take into account the significant differences in cartridge size (8x51 to 7.62x63) and shape (straight-cased Springfield versus tapered Lebel), in addition to several other mistakes (in particular screwing up the conversion from metric to English units, meaning the M1918's magazine and chamber weren't even the correct size). As a result, the majority of M1918s didn't pass factory inspection, and the few that did make it to the frontline experienced severe jamming issues and were usually discarded by US troops before they could fire off a full magazine (most automatic riflemen squadrons giving up on that and switching back to the bolt-action Springfield M1903). They The M1918 Chauchats ended up being used anyway, instead of the vastly superior options, such as the Lewis gun or Browning Automatic Rifle, simply (ignored because [[InterserviceRivalry the AEF's chief of ordnance disliked Colonel Lewis]], Lewis]]) or the Browning Automatic Rifle (not issued because, it being an indigenous American design, the AEF [[PatrioticFervor thought it a far better weapon than it actually was]] and worries that was fearful of the BAR would end up stolen enemy stealing and reverse-engineered.
reverse-engineering it).
* A less famous, but no less awful example of light machine gun design was the Italian [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_30 Breda 30]] which saw service in World War 2. Its [[http://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/breda-model-30/ numerous design faults]] teamed up to make it an ''extremely'' unreliable weapon, especially in the desert conditions of North Africa. The gun attempted to use a blowback system of operation to reduce complexity, but using simple blowback for a high pressure rifle round required the rounds to be '''oiled''' to prevent them from being ripped apart during extraction. This didn't always work, leaving the front part of spent casings hopelessly jammed in the chamber, plus the oil attracted dirt into the working areas of the weapon, causing another type of jam. Furthermore Furthermore, the gun used the same bad idea as the Chauchat with an open open-sided magazine that invited even ''more'' dirt onto the oiled rounds and into the operating mechanism. ''Furthermore'' On top of ''that'', the closed bolt closed-bolt design reduced air circulation and also put rounds in the chamber at risk of cooking off off, which could injure or ''kill'' the gunner. Oh, and the magazine was non-detachable, making use of special 20 round strips to reload it it, which had the effect of drastically slowing the rate of fire. So even when the gun actually managed to fire one would wind up spending most of their time reloading it.



** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitra_Variara Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, as well as having an astonishing maximum range of 250 meters (most other submachine guns could only reach up to a 100 meters, while the Thompson could reach up to 150), to the point where Allied and German soldiers would drop their own submachine guns in a hurry if they could get their hands on an MAB [=38A=]. While less well-known, the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.

to:

** Given all the above, this was surprisingly {{subverted|Trope}} by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 Beretta Model 38]] and the [[https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitra_Variara Variara]] submachine guns. The Model 38 was widely acclaimed as ''the best'' submachine gun of World War II, especially since it was capable of firing both the standard 9mm Parabellum of the era and the more powerful "Cartuccia Modello 38" version, as well as having an astonishing maximum range of 250 meters (most other submachine guns could only reach up to a 100 meters, while the Thompson could reach up to 150), to the point where Allied and German soldiers would drop their own submachine guns in a hurry if they could get their hands on an MAB [=38A=]. While less well-known, the Variara holds special mention for having been made exclusively in clandestine backyard workshops to arm the [[LaResistance Italian partisans]], as well as, ironically enough, using the same bolt and firing mechanism as the troubled Sten gun.



** The Lanchester SMG was a British copy of the German [=MP28=] SMG (an evolution of the UsefulNotes/WW1 [=MP18=]), that was introduced during the aforementioned desperate rearmament period following Dunkirk. While it was a robust and well made weapon, it did have an unfortunate tendency to fire off bursts whenever the butt was given a hard knock while it was cocked and loaded. This was due to the way the blowback action was designed (open bolt with large mainspring holding the bolt under tension), not due to manufacturing errors.

to:

** The Lanchester SMG was a British copy of the German [=MP28=] SMG (an evolution of the UsefulNotes/WW1 UsefulNotes/WorldWarI [=MP18=]), that was introduced during the aforementioned desperate rearmament period following Dunkirk. While it was a robust and well made weapon, it did have an unfortunate tendency to fire off bursts whenever the butt was given a hard knock while it was cocked and loaded. This was due to the way the blowback action was designed (open bolt with large mainspring holding the bolt under tension), not due to manufacturing errors.



* The Ross Rifle, designed as a substitute for the Lee Enfield, was used by the Canadian military during UsefulNotes/WW1. The Ross was easier to dis/reassemble and a pound lighter than the Enfield, as well as being more accurate. It also was prone to the bolt deforming or falling out, it jammed with the slightest dirt, and the bolt occasionally threw itself out of the gun when fired. Needless to say, the soldiers usually ditched them for Enfields as soon as they got to Europe. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** The Ross Mk III bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would close, but ''would not lock'', but ''the rifle would still fire'', ejecting the bolt backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt won't be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''could not be disassembled for cleaning''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.

to:

* The Ross Rifle, designed as a substitute for the Lee Enfield, Lee-Enfield, was used by the Canadian military during UsefulNotes/WW1.[=WW1=]. The Ross was easier to dis/reassemble and a pound lighter than the Enfield, as well as being more accurate. It also was prone to the bolt deforming or falling out, it jammed with the slightest dirt, and the bolt occasionally threw itself out of the gun when fired. Needless to say, the soldiers usually ditched them for Enfields as soon as they got to Europe. Eventually, many of them ended up being used for basic marksmanship training (both in Canada and in the US), where their shortcomings weren't an issue and their use freed up more battle-worthy rifles for the front lines.
** The Ross Mk III bolt could be re-installed after field-stripping with the bolt head turned halfway-round (180 degrees) from its correct position. Done this way, the bolt would close, but ''would not lock'', but ''the rifle would still fire'', ejecting the bolt backwards with great force. While testing has shown that the bolt won't be ejected from the rifle, given where a shooter's eye will normally be that wouldn't have saved them from [[EyeScream getting a large piece of metal in a very bad place]]. This was a fault in the design that was never entirely corrected (one version was altered by pinning the bolt in place, but that meant that the very dirt-sensitive rifle's bolt ''could ''[[DidntThinkThisThrough could not be disassembled for cleaning''), cleaning]]''), and one of the major reasons the Ross had a ''very'' short tenure as the standard service rifle of the Canadian Army.



** The main reason for the Ross's poor performance was that it was adapted too close to the outbreak of the war and did not have a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths. In peacetime most of the really bad problems would have been quickly addressed as they came up but during wartime this was a much lengthier and complicated process. In addition wartime shortages meant that some rifle batches were produced with inferior steel which would wear out quicker than expected and cause the rifles to be even more unreliable.

to:

** The main reason for the Ross's poor performance was that it was adapted too close to the outbreak of the war and did not have a proper "shake down" period where flaws are discovered and corrected in armories by trained gunsmiths. In peacetime most of the really bad problems would have been quickly addressed as they came up up, but during wartime this was a much lengthier and complicated process. In addition wartime shortages meant that some rifle batches were produced with inferior steel which would wear out quicker than expected and cause the rifles to be even more unreliable.



* The FAMAS F1 was designed a few years after France withdrew from NATO[[note]]Sort of. France withdrew from NATO's military command structure after the US and UK basically laughed at their demand to be given equal authority of NATO operations. But they remained a NATO member. Given that NATO is an exclusively military alliance, what that distinction actually meant is somewhat complicated.[[/note]], in turn allowing France to design a new infantry weapon without being forced to comply to NATO standards. The result was one of the most mind-bogglingly weird and boneheaded assault rifles designs of the twentieth century, not helped by a laundry list of poor decisions. The downsides stem from the fact the FAMAS F1 has a higher barrel twist rate than either version of the AR-15/M16 family rifle (i.e. it's optimized for ''neither'' the original American M193 cartridge nor the NATO-standard [=SS109=]), optimized for the locally-produced steel-cased 5.56mm "F1" cartridges; as time passed and production of the rifle and ammunition ceased, the French military was left sitting on their reserves. As operations in Afghanistan and Chad showed, when a standard FAMAS F1 was fed with American-issued 5.56 NATO ammunition, the effective range would drop to an abysmal average of 50 meters (about 165 ft; a modern 9x19mm ''pistol'' can equal this, for context), effectively making the rifle useless. Because France was not anymore able to produce this proprietary ammunition locally, they had to contract a manufacturer in the Emirates, however ammo purchased from them turned out to be of low quality and poor manufacture; coupled with an awkward, proprietary 25-round magazine instead of STANAG-compliant magazines (some genius thought it would be a great idea to go with cheap magazines designed to be thrown away after being emptied once...and then later some other genius decided it would be a great idea to save money by reusing the non-reusable magazines), this effectively killed the F1 as an effective, modern-day infantry rifle. Nearly all of those problems were fixed with the more modern variants, such as the FAMAS G2, which has a STANAG magwell and a barrel with the same twist rate as an M16/AR, allowing it to shoot 5.56 NATO proper. However, the G2 was never purchased in high numbers by the French military (only the Navy has officially adopted it), citing an ever-shrinking budget, and an administration unwilling to replace the some 300,000 F1s equipping the armories. The French military finally announced in September 2016 that they would be replacing the FAMAS with the [=HK416=] beginning in 2017.
* As the quote goes, "You ain't a SEAL until you've eaten Italian steel." The early production run of the Beretta 92F pistols for the US Government had an issue where the slide would fly off the frame during shooting, causing injury to at least one SEAL. While several different reasons were claimed (high round counts, overpressure ammunition), it was eventually discovered that a component that was supposed to be replaced after 25,000 rounds was failing around the five thousand mark. Free replacement parts were sent out and Beretta, in the upgrade to the 92FS, redesigned the frame with a pin to prevent the slide from flying rearward in the event that the locking block fails. The 92FS has gone on to be a fairly satisfactory military and police sidearm, but the Navy SEALS still switched to the SIG P226, and the other branches that didn't resist switching to it in the first place keep trying to replace it with a 1911-based sidearm every couple of years; in official American military surveys about troop experience and opinion regarding weapons, the M9 rated the lowest, with a significant majority of users distrusting it.

to:

* The FAMAS F1 was designed a few years after France withdrew from NATO[[note]]Sort of. France withdrew from NATO's military command structure after the US and UK basically laughed at their demand to be given equal authority of NATO operations. But they remained a NATO member. Given that NATO is an exclusively military alliance, what that distinction actually meant is somewhat complicated.[[/note]], in turn allowing France to design a new infantry weapon without being forced to comply to NATO standards. The result was one of the most mind-bogglingly weird and boneheaded assault rifles designs of the twentieth century, not helped by a laundry list of poor decisions. The downsides stem from the fact the FAMAS F1 has a higher barrel twist rate than either version of the AR-15/M16 family rifle (i.e. it's optimized for ''neither'' the original American M193 cartridge nor the NATO-standard [=SS109=]), optimized for the locally-produced steel-cased 5.56mm "F1" cartridges; as time passed and production of the rifle and ammunition ceased, the French military was left sitting on their reserves. As operations in Afghanistan and Chad showed, when a standard FAMAS F1 was fed with American-issued 5.56 NATO ammunition, the effective range would drop to an abysmal average of 50 meters (about 165 ft; a modern 9x19mm ''pistol'' can equal this, for context), effectively making the rifle useless. Because France was not anymore able to produce this proprietary ammunition locally, they had to contract a manufacturer in the Emirates, however ammo purchased from them turned out to be of low quality and poor manufacture; coupled with an awkward, proprietary 25-round magazine instead of STANAG-compliant magazines (some genius thought it would be a great idea to go with cheap magazines designed to be thrown away after being emptied once... and then later some other genius decided it would be a great idea to save money by reusing the non-reusable magazines), this effectively killed the F1 as an effective, modern-day infantry rifle. Nearly all of those problems were fixed with the more modern variants, such as the FAMAS G2, which has a STANAG magwell and a barrel with the same twist rate as an M16/AR, allowing it to shoot 5.56 NATO proper. However, the G2 was never purchased in high numbers by the French military (only the Navy has officially adopted it), citing an ever-shrinking budget, and an administration unwilling to replace the some 300,000 F1s equipping the armories. The French military finally announced in September 2016 that they would be replacing the FAMAS with the [=HK416=] beginning in 2017.
* As the quote goes, "You ain't a SEAL until you've eaten Italian steel." The early production run of the Beretta 92F pistols for the US Government had an issue where the slide would fly off the frame during shooting, causing injury to at least one SEAL. While several different reasons were claimed (high round counts, overpressure ammunition), it was eventually discovered that a component that was supposed to be replaced after 25,000 rounds was failing around the five thousand mark. Free replacement parts were sent out and Beretta, in the upgrade to the 92FS, redesigned the frame with a pin to prevent the slide from flying rearward in the event that the locking block fails. The 92FS has gone on to be a fairly satisfactory military and police sidearm, but the Navy SEALS still switched to the SIG P226, and the other branches and units that didn't resist switching to it in the first place keep kept trying to replace it with a 1911-based sidearm every couple of years; years (finally succeeding in 2017); in official American military surveys about troop experience and opinion regarding weapons, the M9 rated the lowest, with a significant majority of users distrusting it.
4th Jul '17 3:32:49 AM jormis29
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** PlayedForLaughs with two guns in the series: "Miss Moxxi's Crit" in the ''Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep'' DLC falls out of your hands one reload in every ten and has to be recovered, and the Tediore "Boxxy Gunn" in ''VideoGame/BoderlandsThePreSequel'' is prone to exploding in your hands if reloaded prematurely.

to:

** PlayedForLaughs with two guns in the series: "Miss Moxxi's Crit" in the ''Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep'' DLC falls out of your hands one reload in every ten and has to be recovered, and the Tediore "Boxxy Gunn" in ''VideoGame/BoderlandsThePreSequel'' ''VideoGame/BorderlandsThePreSequel'' is prone to exploding in your hands if reloaded prematurely.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ReliablyUnreliableGuns