History Main / PronounTrouble

13th Jan '17 1:14:28 PM absolutelyTime
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* A reoccurring theme of ''Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl'', which primarily deals with the social ramifications of being transgendered, is misgendering. [[http://themanicpixienightmaregirl.tumblr.com/post/144109850062/return-of-the-trans-ally One comic]] has Jess runs into an old friend who starts gushing about her brother transitioning, but continues to refer to her by male pronouns. Jess tells the friend to stop misgendering her now-sister, only for the friend to unleash a HurricaneOfExcuses as to why she does, making Jess even more annoyed by the [[NeverMyFault lack of empathy]].

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* A reoccurring theme of ''Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl'', which primarily deals with the social ramifications of being transgendered, transgender, is misgendering. [[http://themanicpixienightmaregirl.tumblr.com/post/144109850062/return-of-the-trans-ally One comic]] has Jess runs into an old friend who starts gushing about her brother transitioning, but continues to refer to her by male pronouns. Jess tells the friend to stop misgendering her now-sister, only for the friend to unleash a HurricaneOfExcuses as to why she does, making Jess even more annoyed by the [[NeverMyFault lack of empathy]].
13th Jan '17 1:10:18 PM absolutelyTime
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** This is averted with Shepard him/her self, since unlike with KOTOR, the developers had planned from the beginning to have Shepard be either male or female, so there are separate voice files that have pronouns refer to either a male or female Shepard.

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** This is averted with Shepard him/her self, themself, since unlike with KOTOR, the developers had planned from the beginning to have Shepard be either male or female, so there are separate voice files that have pronouns refer to either a male or female Shepard.
13th Jan '17 1:08:37 PM absolutelyTime
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* [[VideoGame/NightsIntoDreams NiGHTS]] is officially genderless, as (s)he is capable of bonding with both males (Elliot, William) and females (Claris, Helen). Not really a problem with the first game, which was entirely devoid of dialogue. The Wii sequel, ''Journey of Dreams'', however, has several voiced cutscenes, and using pronouns to refer to [=NiGHTS=] was largely unavoidable; the game settles on using male pronouns, but then has it so (s)he speaks with a female voice to further confuse the issue.

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* [[VideoGame/NightsIntoDreams NiGHTS]] is officially genderless, as (s)he is they are capable of bonding with both males (Elliot, William) and females (Claris, Helen). Not really a problem with the first game, which was entirely devoid of dialogue. The Wii sequel, ''Journey of Dreams'', however, has several voiced cutscenes, and using pronouns to refer to [=NiGHTS=] was largely unavoidable; the game settles on using male pronouns, but then has it so (s)he speaks they speak with a female voice to further confuse the issue.
7th Jan '17 12:17:12 PM NWolfman
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* In one ''Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl'' [[http://themanicpixienightmaregirl.tumblr.com/post/144109850062/return-of-the-trans-ally comic]], Jess runs into an old friend who starts gushing about her brother transitioning, but continues to refer to her by male pronouns. Jess tells the friend to stop misgendering her now-sister, only for the friend to unleash a HurricaneOfExcuses as to why she does, making Jess even more annoyed by the [[NeverMyFault lack of empathy]].

to:

* In one A reoccurring theme of ''Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl'' Girl'', which primarily deals with the social ramifications of being transgendered, is misgendering. [[http://themanicpixienightmaregirl.tumblr.com/post/144109850062/return-of-the-trans-ally comic]], One comic]] has Jess runs into an old friend who starts gushing about her brother transitioning, but continues to refer to her by male pronouns. Jess tells the friend to stop misgendering her now-sister, only for the friend to unleash a HurricaneOfExcuses as to why she does, making Jess even more annoyed by the [[NeverMyFault lack of empathy]].
7th Jan '17 12:11:29 PM NWolfman
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* As the concept of nonbinary gender identification has gained more notice, this problem often crops up with people attempting to be polite. Many just use he/she based on their initial assumptions. Others who identify as "masculine but not entirely male" will use he while "feminine but not female" use she; others who identify as both or neither might use either, or, and even alternate between both; and to top it all off there's a growing trend of coming up with entirely new pronouns or adopting others'. It's often a good rule of thumb to just ask first, and default to singular "they" if you can't ask. And never, ever, call them "{{it|IsDehumanizing}}" if they haven't asked you to.

to:

* As the concept of nonbinary gender identification has gained more notice, this problem often crops up with people attempting to be polite. Many just use he/she based on their initial assumptions. Others who identify as "masculine but not entirely male" will use he while "feminine but not female" use she; others who identify as both or neither might use either, or, and even alternate between both; and to top it all off there's a growing trend of coming up with entirely new pronouns or adopting others'. It's often a good rule of thumb to just ask first, and default to singular "they" if you can't ask. And never, ever, call if you value your life, never refer to them as "{{it|IsDehumanizing}}" if they haven't asked you to.unless prompted.
3rd Jan '17 8:28:37 PM N1KF
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* This is a concern when writing software, both translated from English, and written directly in a gendered language. Sometimes a software doesn't need to know the user's gender at all, except to say "Welcome". In the best case, you get "Bienvenido/a" or "Bienvenid@" (indicating both options: masculine and feminine). In the worst case, you get "Welcome back, Mr (female)!" To respect the identities of transgender users, Website/{{Facebook}} will come right out and explicitly ask the user how they would like to be addressed (for example, "he", "she", "xe"). If the user leaves the box blank, Facebook will default to using the singular "they".
* As the concept of nonbinary gender identification has gained more notice, this problem often crops up with people attempting to be polite. Many just use he/she based on their initial assumptions. Others who identify as "masculine but not entirely male" will use he while "feminine but not female" use she; others who identify as both or neither might use either, or, and even alternate between both; and to top it all off there's a growing trend of coming up with entirely new pronouns or adopting others'. It's often a good rule of thumb to just ask first, and default to singular "they" if you can't ask. And never, ever, call them "[[ItIsDehumanizing it]]" if they haven't asked you to.

to:

* This is a concern when writing software, both translated from English, and written directly in a gendered language. Sometimes a software doesn't need to know the user's gender at all, except to say "Welcome". In the best case, you get "Bienvenido/a" or "Bienvenid@" (indicating both options: masculine and feminine). In the worst case, you get "Welcome back, Mr (female)!" To respect the identities of transgender users, Website/{{Facebook}} will come right out and explicitly ask the user how they would like to be addressed (for example, "he", "she", "xe"). If the user leaves the box blank, Facebook will default to using the singular "they".
"they".
* As the concept of nonbinary gender identification has gained more notice, this problem often crops up with people attempting to be polite. Many just use he/she based on their initial assumptions. Others who identify as "masculine but not entirely male" will use he while "feminine but not female" use she; others who identify as both or neither might use either, or, and even alternate between both; and to top it all off there's a growing trend of coming up with entirely new pronouns or adopting others'. It's often a good rule of thumb to just ask first, and default to singular "they" if you can't ask. And never, ever, call them "[[ItIsDehumanizing it]]" "{{it|IsDehumanizing}}" if they haven't asked you to.
13th Dec '16 6:48:24 AM Sikon
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Added DiffLines:

** This presents a problem with translations into languages where it's much harder to stay gender-neutral in first-person speech. A Russian fan translation of OOTS resorted to V alternating masculine and feminine language forms when speaking about him/herself.
10th Dec '16 8:34:25 AM CurledUpWithDakka
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* '''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': Sweets, a minor character who's a {{hermaphrodite}}, is referred to with alternatingly pronouns; "he" one paragraph, "she" the next.

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* '''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': Sweets, a minor character who's a {{hermaphrodite}}, is referred to with alternatingly pronouns; "he" one paragraph, "she" the next.
3rd Dec '16 7:33:47 AM UnderlordZ
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** Also, when [[spoiler:Steven]] and [[spoiler:Connie]] first fuse [[spoiler:into Stevonnie]], they get "my" and "your" pronouns mixed up.

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** Also, when [[spoiler:Steven]] Steven and [[spoiler:Connie]] Connie first fuse [[spoiler:into Stevonnie]], into Stevonnie, they get "my" and "your" pronouns mixed up.up.
*** Stevonnie is the first true intersex character in the show, and for the longest time, the fan base wasn't sure which pronouns to use. The show's staff eventually said via Twitter that Stevonnie would use [=they/them=] pronouns, and this was later confirmed in Season 3's ''Beach City Drift''.
26th Nov '16 9:42:10 AM Lopiny
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Videogame/SunlessSea'' reduces this somewhat; the gender neutral terms for your captain are plain and blunt (ex: [[ShapedLikeItself captain]]), and the narration tends to avoid bringing gender up in general. There is definitely some pronoun trouble with the Alarming Scholar, however. Neither you nor the narrator can decide her (his?) gender, and constantly stumble when referring to him (her?).
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.PronounTrouble