History Main / PragmaticHero

17th Jan '17 6:23:53 PM ZimFan89
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* In ''Manga/BlackButler'', Ciel is willing to do all sorts of morally grey or even black things -- murder, blackmail, emotional manipulation, sacrificing innocent lives, etc. -- for the greater good of [[MyCountryRightOrWrong serving Great Britain's interests]]. That said, at times it seems to weigh on his conscience, and for the most part he does genuinely want to help people.
17th Jan '17 12:53:58 AM TheSinful
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* While she abhors necromancy, Jaina decides to nonetheless take lessons from Kel'thuzad in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6423427/1/Frostblood Frostblood]]'' after she accidentally becomes the new Lich King, stating that she has to understand her powers if she wants to control them.
29th Dec '16 2:48:17 PM Arcana4th
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* ''VisualNovel/NewDanganronpaV3'' has Kaede Akamatsu. For the first time in the franchise, the protagonist is given the right to lie in amidst of the Class Trial and commit perjury in order to get the culprit.
26th Dec '16 12:30:27 PM FordPrefect
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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it. As he puts it to Clara in "Flatline", when she asks if she was a good Doctor in his stead during the crisis of the week, he says she was exceptional but "Goodness had nothing to do with it" -- she had to do the kinds of pragmatic things she had been criticizing him for in previous episodes, such as lying and not stopping to mourn death, to save the day.

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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, incarnations, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it. As he puts it to Clara in "Flatline", when she asks if she was a good Doctor in his stead during the crisis of the week, he says she was exceptional but "Goodness had nothing to do with it" -- she had to do the kinds of pragmatic things she had been criticizing him for in previous episodes, such as lying and not stopping to mourn death, to save the day.
21st Dec '16 2:50:50 PM Euodiachloris
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** Stannis falls firmly into this. He has a very strong sense of what is right and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve this; including having his own brother Renly assassinated with blood magic. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}} who intended to kill Stannis, but what Stannis had to do still torments him -- though it is still a matter for debate among the fandom how responsible Stannis was for Renly's death. Later, Stannis considers burning his nephew, who is the illegitimate son of his late brother, King Robert, in a ritual to raise a dragon (for which King's Blood is required) but he is clearly very reluctant to do so, and tells Melisandre if it fails, she'll die slowly. [[spoiler:However, his honest advisor Lord Davos Seaworth sends Edric away from Westeros before Stannis can do so.]]

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** Stannis falls firmly into this. this... while [[PlayingWithATrope playing around]] with LawfulStupid. He has a very strong sense of what is right ''right'' and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve this; including having his own brother Renly brother, Renly, assassinated with blood magic. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}} who intended to kill Stannis, but what Stannis had to do still torments him -- though it is still a matter for debate among the fandom how responsible Stannis was for Renly's death. Later, Stannis considers burning his nephew, who is the illegitimate son of his late brother, King Robert, in a ritual to raise a dragon (for which King's Blood is required) but he is clearly very reluctant to do so, and tells Melisandre if it fails, she'll die slowly. [[spoiler:However, his honest advisor Lord Davos Seaworth sends Edric away from Westeros before Stannis can do so.]]



** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch and he's also compassionate, heroic, and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing, as well as his Stark traits of honor and duty, put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's continued efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- who Jon has to explain are ''people too,'' which contrasts the entrenched, traditional views of some Watch members -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being, meaning the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality ramp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], whereupon he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (while strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his mostly-lost family]], continue to dog him) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children; protecting people in need; and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. In addition to Jon's humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, he also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.

to:

** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch and he's also compassionate, heroic, and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing, as well as his Stark traits of honor and duty, put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules [[TeamSwitzerland tradition]]/[[LawfulStupid rules]] donít always go hand in hand. Jon's continued efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- who Jon has to explain are ''people too,'' which contrasts the entrenched, traditional views of some Watch members -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being, meaning the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality ramp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], whereupon he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (while strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his mostly-lost family]], continue to dog him) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children; protecting people in need; and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. In addition to Jon's humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, he also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.
6th Dec '16 11:22:03 PM Euodiachloris
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** Daenerys Targaryen is... learning and she is a [[AChildShallLeadThem a young queen]] after all. Depending on who you ask in-world, however, the [[NotQuiteTheRightThing various outcomes]] and methods she takes have some people thinking she's a [[PragmaticVillainy villain]], not a hero. However, in reality, she is compassionate, has heroic intentions, wants to protect people, tries to go about doing the right thing whatever the cost, bleeds for every mistake she makes and is genuinely ''learning'' from both her success and failures -- despite her passionate stubbornness. The problem is, gaining experience with pragmatism through trial and error (and a massive resolve to not be like [[StupidEvil her brother]]) is only really a good way to wind up in deep, deep trouble while running in circles. Having a properly accredited teacher you actually listen to is a helpful thing when learning to hero, kiddies.
** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch and he's also compassionate, heroic, and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing, as well as his Stark traits of honor and duty, put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's continued efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom Jon explains are ''people too,'' which contrasts traditional views of some Watch members -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (while strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his family]], also arise) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children; protecting people in need; and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. In addition to Jon's humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, he also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.

to:

** Daenerys Targaryen is... learning and learning; she is ''is'' a [[AChildShallLeadThem a rather young queen]] after all. Depending on who you ask in-world, however, the [[NotQuiteTheRightThing various outcomes]] and methods of some of the [[PayEvilUntoEvil methods]] she takes tries have some people thinking she's a [[PragmaticVillainy villain]], not a hero. However, in reality, she is compassionate, has heroic intentions, wants to protect people, tries to go about doing the right thing whatever the cost, bleeds for every mistake she makes and is genuinely ''learning'' from both her success and failures -- despite her passionate stubbornness. The problem is, gaining experience with pragmatism through trial and error (and a massive resolve to not be like [[StupidEvil her brother]]) is only really a good an effective way to wind up in deep, deep trouble while running in circles. Having The lesson here is: a properly accredited teacher you actually listen to is a helpful thing to have when learning to hero, kiddies.
** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch and he's also compassionate, heroic, and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing, as well as his Stark traits of honor and duty, put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's continued efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom who Jon explains has to explain are ''people too,'' which contrasts the entrenched, traditional views of some Watch members -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and well-being, meaning the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp ramp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein whereupon he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (while strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his mostly-lost family]], also arise) continue to dog him) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children; protecting people in need; and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. In addition to Jon's humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, he also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.
3rd Dec '16 12:21:18 PM Sapphirea2
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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it. As he puts to Clara in "Flatline", when she asks if she was a good Doctor in his stead during the crisis of the week, he says she was exceptional, but "Goodness had nothing to do with it."

to:

** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it. As he puts it to Clara in "Flatline", when she asks if she was a good Doctor in his stead during the crisis of the week, he says she was exceptional, exceptional but "Goodness had nothing to do with it."it" -- she had to do the kinds of pragmatic things she had been criticizing him for in previous episodes, such as lying and not stopping to mourn death, to save the day.
3rd Dec '16 3:12:52 AM cherrychels
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* Ange in ''Anime/CrossAnge'' is willing to dirty her hands if need be but she's doing it so that her squadmates are safe from harm even if she has to KillSteal from them. Also disgusted with the society of mana after witnessing its harsh bigotry when nearly executed for being a Norma, and wishes to destroy it, but remains to be seen how far she will go. She was definitely disgusted when she found out [[spoiler:the [[=DRAGONs=]] she and her comrades had been killing were part-human]].

to:

* Ange in ''Anime/CrossAnge'' is willing to dirty her hands if need be be, but she's doing it so that her squadmates squad mates are safe from harm harm -- even if she has to KillSteal from them. Also She is also disgusted with the society of mana after witnessing its harsh bigotry when she's nearly executed for being a Norma, Norma and wishes to destroy it, but it remains to be seen how far she will go. She was definitely disgusted when she found out [[spoiler:the [[=DRAGONs=]] she and her comrades had been killing were part-human]].



* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': StupidGood has a very short shelf-life in this series; but, that doesn't make trying to be smart and good any easier.
** Stannis falls firmly into this. He has a very strong sense of what is right and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve that right; including having his own brother Renly assassinated with blood magic. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}} who intended to kill Stannis, but what Stannis had to do still torments him -- though it is still a matter for debate among the fandom how responsible Stannis was for Renly's death. Later, Stannis considers burning a bastard nephew, the illegitimate son of his late brother, King Robert, in a ritual to raise a dragon (for which King's Blood is required) but he is clearly very reluctant to do so, and tells Melisandre if it fails, she'll die slowly. [[spoiler:However his honest advisor Lord Davos Seaworth sends Edric away from Westeros before Stannis can do so.]]
** Daenerys Targaryen is... learning and she is a [[AChildShallLeadThem a young queen]] after all. Depending on who you ask in-world, however, the [[NotQuiteTheRightThing various outcomes]] and methods she takes have some people thinking she's a [[PragmaticVillainy villain]], not a hero. However, in reality, she is compassionate, does have heroic intentions, tries to go about doing the right thing whatever the cost, bleeds for every mistake she makes and is genuinely ''learning'' from both her success and failures -- despite her passionate stubbornness. The problem is, gaining experience with pragmatism through trial and error (and a massive resolve to not be like [[StupidEvil her brother]]) is only really a good way to wind up in deep, deep trouble while running in circles. Having a properly accredited teacher you actually listen to is a helpful thing when learning to hero, kiddies.
** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch, is compassionate and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing and his Stark traits of honor and duty put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom Jon views as actual people in contrast to traditional views of the Nightís Watch -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (with varying success -- but strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his family]], arise) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children and other people in need, and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. Though he has humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, Jon also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.

to:

* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': StupidGood has a very short shelf-life in this series; but, but that doesn't make trying to be smart and good any easier.
** Stannis falls firmly into this. He has a very strong sense of what is right and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve that right; this; including having his own brother Renly assassinated with blood magic. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}} who intended to kill Stannis, but what Stannis had to do still torments him -- though it is still a matter for debate among the fandom how responsible Stannis was for Renly's death. Later, Stannis considers burning a bastard his nephew, who is the illegitimate son of his late brother, King Robert, in a ritual to raise a dragon (for which King's Blood is required) but he is clearly very reluctant to do so, and tells Melisandre if it fails, she'll die slowly. [[spoiler:However [[spoiler:However, his honest advisor Lord Davos Seaworth sends Edric away from Westeros before Stannis can do so.]]
** Daenerys Targaryen is... learning and she is a [[AChildShallLeadThem a young queen]] after all. Depending on who you ask in-world, however, the [[NotQuiteTheRightThing various outcomes]] and methods she takes have some people thinking she's a [[PragmaticVillainy villain]], not a hero. However, in reality, she is compassionate, does have has heroic intentions, wants to protect people, tries to go about doing the right thing whatever the cost, bleeds for every mistake she makes and is genuinely ''learning'' from both her success and failures -- despite her passionate stubbornness. The problem is, gaining experience with pragmatism through trial and error (and a massive resolve to not be like [[StupidEvil her brother]]) is only really a good way to wind up in deep, deep trouble while running in circles. Having a properly accredited teacher you actually listen to is a helpful thing when learning to hero, kiddies.
** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch, is compassionate Watch and he's also compassionate, heroic, and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing and thing, as well as his Stark traits of honor and duty duty, put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's continued efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom Jon views as actual people in contrast to explains are ''people too,'' which contrasts traditional views of the Nightís some Watch members -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (with varying success -- but (while strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his family]], also arise) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children and other children; protecting people in need, need; and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. Though he has In addition to Jon's humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, Jon he also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.
2nd Dec '16 12:12:33 PM N8han11
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** Although that moment came directly after [[spoiler:a friend [[HeroicSacrifice sacrificed himself to save her]] and the WhatTheHellHero speech was used to unfairly ''blame'' Lara for his death]], so she was both justified in brushing it off ''and'' not in the best frame of mind at that point.
11th Nov '16 7:21:03 AM leelea
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** Dumbledore as well. He leaves Harry in the care of the Dursleys (who are far from the ideal guardians ever), but does so because [[spoiler:his living with them will invoke an ancient magic that protects him from Voldemort]]. Notably, the times when he ''doesn't'' follow this trope (he avoids telling Harry vital information because he doesn't want to cause him distress from the knowledge), it backfires horribly since Harry walks into danger as a result.

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** Dumbledore as well. He leaves Harry in the care of the Dursleys (who are far from the ideal guardians ever), but does so because [[spoiler:his living with them will invoke an ancient magic that protects him from Voldemort]]. Notably, the times when he ''doesn't'' follow this trope (he avoids telling Harry vital information because he doesn't want to cause him distress from the Harry with this knowledge), it backfires horribly since Harry walks into danger as a result.



* Tennyson Hardwick, small time actor, part time detective and bodyguard, former gigolo and hero of the eponymous series by Blair Underwood, Steven Barnes and Tananarive Due is a man hardened by his past enough to kill when he has to but is still moral enough to regret having to do it, even though he acknowledges that the men he killed had it coming. He also bends or even break the law often enough to sometimes put him at odds with his former cop father and current cop brother figure.

to:

* Tennyson Hardwick, small time actor, part time detective and bodyguard, former gigolo and hero of the eponymous series by Blair Underwood, Steven Barnes and Tananarive Due Due, is a man hardened enough by his past enough to kill when he has to but is still moral enough to regret having to do it, even though he acknowledges that the men he killed had it coming. He also bends or even break the law often enough to sometimes put him at odds with his former cop father and current cop brother figure.



** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch, is compassionate and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing and his Stark traits of honor and duty put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom Jon views as actual people in contrast to traditional views of the Nightís Watch -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (with varying success -- but strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his family]], arise) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children and other people in need, and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. Though he has humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, Jon also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that anyone who dies north of the Wall will become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all.''

to:

** Like Daenerys, Jon Snow has to start climbing the learning curve at top speed when he joins the Night's Watch, is compassionate and is always trying do to the right thing. While he has many traits of a "classic hero," is described as a [[https://youtu.be/yarEbKyk8PU?t=146 "classic hero"]] by [[WordOfGod author, George R. R. Martin]], and is trying to protect people, he also finds out that doing the right thing and his Stark traits of honor and duty put him at odds with other members of the Nightís Watch -- learning that doing what's right and going by the Watch's tradition/rules donít always go hand in hand. Jon's efforts to do the right thing and his sympathy for the wildlings -- whom Jon views as actual people in contrast to traditional views of the Nightís Watch -- do ''not'' earn him the best reputation from some fellow members. While he maintains his morality, compassion, and drive to save people, this strains his personal safety and well-being and the [[TheStoic stoic]] aspects of his personality amp up when he is elected [[AChildShallLeadThem Lord Commander]], wherein he sends his friends away to do other jobs for the Night's Watch and isolates himself to try and focus on only duty (with varying success -- but strong emotions, like [[RelativeButton his love for his family]], arise) in an effort to observe the leadership advice his father and Maester Aemon had given him. When necessary, Jon will go against tradition and opinions of fellow Watch members for the sake of doing the right thing -- like his efforts to save wildling men, women, children and other people in need, and teaming up with [[EnemyMine wildling warriors]] to [[WeAREStrugglingTogether fight everyone's true enemy]], [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]. Though he has humanitarian reasons for rescuing the wildlings, Jon also makes a pragmatic argument to his opposers that they can't risk letting the wildlings die, as anyone who dies north of the Wall will would become part of the aforementioned [[ZombieApocalypse giant army of the dead]], which is coming for them ''all.''''all'' and they need a way to defend against this.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.PragmaticHero