History Main / PragmaticHero

24th Apr '16 6:42:57 AM Derkhan
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* Conrad Nomikos in ''Literature/ThisImmortal''. He is not above resorting to guerrilla warfare, standing aside and potentially seeing someone killed or [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking insulting sensibilities by dismantling the pyramid of Cheops]] to prove his point and acieve the greater goal of an autonomous Earth with its inhabitants returned. He does, however, take the time to first make damn sure it's the best course of action towards that goal.
14th Mar '16 3:19:15 PM Beedle
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Popeye}}'' holds himself to a strict moral code, but this doesn't stop him from beating people or animals to a pulp (occasionally for little to no reason, in the early shorts anyway). And a sometimes when he rescues Olive, he does so to prevent Bluto from having her rather than for her own safety.

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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Popeye}}'' holds himself to a strict moral code, but this doesn't stop him from beating people or animals to a pulp (occasionally for little to no reason, in the early shorts anyway). And a sometimes when he rescues Olive, he does so to prevent Bluto from having her rather than for her own safety.


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** Sokka tries to take this approach in "The Painted Lady", when the group comes across a village suffering from pollution, hunger and sickness. Katara wishes to stop and help them, but Sokka insists that they don't have time to help everyone they meet and that they would be doing a lot more good by succeeding with their plan to invade the Fire Nation.
23rd Feb '16 7:02:50 AM Sapphirea2
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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it.
** Jack Harkness too, although he swings widely between this and Unscrupulous Hero, especially in Torchwood. In ''Doctor Who'' proper, he is more often between Disney and Pragmatist.

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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it.
it. As he puts to Clara in "Flatline", when she asks if she was a good Doctor in his stead during the crisis of the week, he says she was exceptional, but "Goodness had nothing to do with it."
** Jack Harkness too, although he swings widely between this and Unscrupulous Hero, UnscrupulousHero, especially in Torchwood.''Torchwood''. In ''Doctor Who'' proper, he is more often between Disney and Pragmatist.
1st Feb '16 8:24:54 PM DatLonerGirl
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At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well and GoodIsNotSoft in for the instances when they get their hands bloody in the name of the greater good While remaining more or less decent people.

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At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well and GoodIsNotSoft in for the instances when they get their hands bloody in the name of the greater good While while remaining more or less decent people.
16th Jan '16 1:08:14 PM markband
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At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well.

to:

At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well.well and GoodIsNotSoft in for the instances when they get their hands bloody in the name of the greater good While remaining more or less decent people.
14th Jan '16 1:24:29 PM Sapphirea2
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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who has created a heroic identity for himself that he's trying to live up to -- on his good days, he manages to do so.

to:

** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure or a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who has created a heroic identity for himself that he's trying passes through the universe helping others, forever striving to live up to -- on his good days, he manages to do so.a heroic ideal he's set up for himself and not always succeeding at it.
14th Jan '16 1:20:33 PM Sapphirea2
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** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race, and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA, the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure, or whether he's a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards.
** Jack Harkness too, although he swings widely between this and Unscrupulous Hero, especially in Torchwood. In Doctor Who proper, he is more often between Disney and Pragmatist.

to:

** The Doctor is this, [[spoiler: at one point sacrificing a city to prevent the world from being ruled by the villains]]. However, this tends to vary between incarnation, and sometimes even episodes. In one episode the Doctor will be willing to commit genocide against a destructive race, race and in the next he'll be refusing to wipe out the Daleks (AKA, (AKA the worst things in the universe). A big theme of the revived series is whether the Doctor is a messianic figure, figure or whether he's a narcissist hypocrite who looks down on others for not following his high and inconsistent standards.
standards. The [[Creator/PeterCapaldi Twelfth Doctor]] in particular does a lot of soul searching over what kind of a man he is and how his first companion Clara gradually becomes more pragmatic due to his influence. It's telling that Twelve comes to regard himself not as a hero or even a good man, but rather an idiot who has created a heroic identity for himself that he's trying to live up to -- on his good days, he manages to do so.
** Jack Harkness too, although he swings widely between this and Unscrupulous Hero, especially in Torchwood. In Doctor Who ''Doctor Who'' proper, he is more often between Disney and Pragmatist.
14th Jan '16 6:36:38 AM Shadowgazer
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Most great fictional heroes fall into one of two broad categories: the IdealHero, such as TheCape or a KnightInShiningArmor who is pretty much exactly what one would hope for in a hero - skilled, courageous, morally pure, etc., and the AntiHero, who lacks one or more qualities normally considered necessary for an IdealHero. For example, a ClassicalAntiHero lacks ability or self-confidence. A KnightInSourArmor lacks a positive attitude, and a NominalHero lacks morally pure intentions.

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Most great fictional heroes fall into one of two broad categories: the IdealHero, such as TheCape or a KnightInShiningArmor who is pretty much exactly what one would hope for in a hero - skilled, courageous, morally pure, etc., and the AntiHero, who lacks one or more qualities normally considered necessary for an IdealHero. For example, a ClassicalAntiHero lacks ability or self-confidence. A KnightInSourArmor lacks a positive attitude, and a NominalHero lacks morally pure intentions.
intentions and has purely selfish motivation.



At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]] and possibly [[KnightTemplar Knight Templars]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well.

to:

At the end of the day, their justification is typically IDidWhatIHadToDo, they ''love'' giving TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to a poor WideEyedIdealist, and they might evolve into [[CynicalMentor cynical mentors]]. However, they will never say "SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids". Deep down, they want the best for others, and this character may have shades of ChronicHeroSyndrome as he/she will often be the one to defend a captured minion or fallen hero. Being pragmatic, they also have both the flaws and strengths a more passionate hero lacks, so are less likely to let [[ItsPersonal personal]] intentions get in the way of their job. In this sense a Pragmatic Hero contrasts a BloodKnight or HeWhoFightsMonsters. However, if their [[ShootTheDog methods]] ''are'' [[UpToEleven excessively violent]] or otherwise distasteful, they've become [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]] and possibly [[KnightTemplar Knight Templars]].Heroes]]. Compare GoodIsNotNice if the "good guy" extends his jerkassery towards non-villainous characters as well.
1st Dec '15 9:12:13 AM TheSinful
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* ''[[Manga/{{Naruto}} Sarutobi]]'' allows Naruto to get away with being a KleptomaniacHero in [[http://naruto.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600105466&chapter=3 Demon's Dirty Dreams]] partially because Naruto is so good at LoopholeAbuse that it can't be proven he's actually stolen anything. Mostly however, it's because 1) rich merchants losing things they can easily afford to replace is a small price to pay to keep the resident jinchuuriki from going nuts and 2) Naruto turns in anything he steals that points to a traitor or someone cheating the system.

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* ''[[Manga/{{Naruto}} Sarutobi]]'' [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Sarutobi]] allows Naruto to get away with being a KleptomaniacHero in [[http://naruto.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600105466&chapter=3 Demon's Dirty Dreams]] partially because Naruto is so good at LoopholeAbuse that it can't be proven he's actually stolen anything. Mostly however, it's because 1) rich merchants losing things they can easily afford to replace is a small price to pay to keep the resident jinchuuriki from going nuts and 2) Naruto turns in anything he steals that points to a traitor or someone cheating the system.


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* WordOfGod states that Sarutobi is aware of more than Naruto realizes in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3665921/1/Black-Flames-Dance-In-The-Wind-Rise-of-Naruto Black Flames Dance in the Wind: Rise of Naruto]]''. He doesn't have Naruto arrested because the crimes he does know about aren't worth losing a jinchuuriki that's S-ranked at graduation. However there are other crimes which he would arrest Naruto for, he just doesn't know about them.
20th Nov '15 6:45:38 AM MrThorfan64
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** Stannis falls firmly into this. He has a very strong sense of what is right and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve that right; including having his own brother Renly assassinated. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}}, but what he had to do still torments him.

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** Stannis falls firmly into this. He has a very strong sense of what is right and will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to achieve that right; including having his own brother Renly assassinated. assassinated with blood magic. It helps that Renly was a {{Jerkass}}, {{Jerkass}} who intended to kill Stannis, but what he had to do still torments him.him. Though it is still a matter for debate among the fandom how responsible Stannis was for Renly's death. Later Stannis considers burning a bastard nephew of his in a ritual to raise a dragon (for which King's Blood is required) but is clearly very reluctant to do so, and tells Melisandre if it fails she'll die slowly. [[spoiler:However his honest advisor Lord Davos Seaworth sends Edric away from Westeros before Stannis can do so.]]
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