History Main / PayEvilUntoEvil

18th Feb '18 4:32:09 PM DastardlyDemolition
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*** It's especially odd that you gain karma from killing Mr. Tenpenny for two reasons: One, that you can do it with no provocation and completely in cold blood and two, [[spoiler:near as one can tell, if you convince the residents to let the ghouls in, you find out that Tenpenny does not condone the morally reprehensible prejudices he allows, he's just oblivious to them, though this may apply less to Megaton]]. (Also, please note these "morally reprehensible prejudices" turn out in this specific case to be fully justified.)

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*** It's especially odd that you gain karma from killing Mr. Tenpenny for two reasons: One, that you can do it with no provocation and completely in cold blood and two, [[spoiler:near as one can tell, if you convince the residents to let the ghouls in, you find out that Tenpenny does not condone the morally reprehensible prejudices he allows, he's just oblivious to them, though this may apply less to Megaton]]. (Also, please note these "morally reprehensible prejudices" turn out in this specific case to be fully justified.)) The problem with this quest is that while the resident's "morally reprehensible prejudices" do become justified, your killing of [[spoiler:Roy Phillips]] is not due to him being flagged as a "''Good Karma''" character despite being an utter bastard when you learn the truth[[note]]That is, if you get caught. You can complete the quest, get the useful rewards, and then kill Roy with a stealth headshot and a Stealth Boy, preventing the people from being massacred.[[/note]] Thanks a lot Three Dog!



*** It should be noted that in ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' you can also get a perk that gives you a bonus for killing ''good'' characters. It's also one of the few games that punishes ''either'' side of the karma line. If you're evil, the Regulators come after you; if you're good, criminals start hiring the Talon Mercenaries to hunt you down.

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*** It should be noted that in ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' you can also get a perk that gives you a bonus for killing ''good'' characters. It's also one of the few games that punishes ''either'' side of the karma line. If you're evil, the Regulators come after you; if you're good, criminals start hiring the Talon Mercenaries to hunt you down. In a roundabout way, you are "rewarded" for being Good by having Talon hit squads to kill you with their mid-level gear of Combat Armor... which is much better than the Regulator's "Cowboy" gear of leather dusters.
18th Feb '18 4:15:06 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', killing bandits raises your Karma meter, which is fair enough. It also goes up when you kill drug dealers and pimps, which still makes sense[[labelnote]]Though[[/labelnote]] If you get caught, [[AllianceMeter other people of their faction]] will attack you, and killing them generally ''will'' lower your karma.[[/labelnote]]. But killing 'prostitutes' also raises the Karma meter--not by much, [[DisposableSexWorker but damn]]! It's kinda funny that a character is revered as a great hero for killing masses of whores. Jack the Ripper: Hero of the Wasteland!

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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', killing bandits raises your Karma meter, which is fair enough. It also goes up when you kill drug dealers and pimps, which still makes sense[[labelnote]]Though[[/labelnote]] If sense[[note]]Though if you get caught, [[AllianceMeter other people of their faction]] will attack you, and killing them generally ''will'' lower your karma.[[/labelnote]].[[/note]]. But killing 'prostitutes' also raises the Karma meter--not by much, [[DisposableSexWorker but damn]]! It's kinda funny that a character is revered as a great hero for killing masses of whores. Jack the Ripper: Hero of the Wasteland!
14th Feb '18 1:09:25 PM Rosuav
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/AliceMadnessReturns'': Is it okay to [[spoiler:push someone in front of a train]]? Only if it's the BigBad who just told you that there was nothing you could do to stop his ongoing villainy [[spoiler:(including doing to someone else what he did to you)]].
10th Feb '18 8:44:00 PM merotoker
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* ''Film/TheToxicAvenger''

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* ''Film/TheToxicAvenger'' ''Film/TheToxicAvenger'':



* Creator/ClintEastwood

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* Creator/ClintEastwoodCreator/ClintEastwood:



* In Creator/SeaburyQuinn's [[OccultDetective Jules De Grandin series]], the title character often deals with various very awful people in ''truly'' brutal fashion. Like the {{Necromancer}} in one story who uses his [[ZombieMooks undead slaves]] as both [[ILoveTheDead concubines]] and to [[WouldHarmAChild murder a three-year-old]]. De Grandin ends up trying to arrest him alongside a local cop, but he [[ExactWords "fell down the stairs and broke his neck."]] [[CowboyCop The officer adds "He had to do it twice, the first time wasn't enough."]]
* [[DeconstructedTrope Desconstructed]] in the ''Creator/SophieHannah'' novel The Carrier, concerning a mystery about why Tim Breary confesses the murdering his wife Francine, but claims he doesn't know why he did it. [[spoiler: It turns out that it was actually Francine's caretaker, Lauren, who decided to [[MercyKill put Francine out of her misery]] because Tim and his two best friends, Kerry and Dan, were endlessly abusing Francine, who had a stroke and was bedridden, unable to move or speak and justified it to themselves because of Francine's former DomesticAbuse towards Tim that [[DrivenToSuicide culminated in Tim trying to kill himself]]. When Gabrielle, the story's protagonist and Tim's former LoveInterest, discovers this, she realises Tim takes the fall for Lauren because he realises that he was basically torturing a victim who could not fight back and, regardless of her treatment of him, realises that he had no way of verifying Francine was the same person after having her stroke and that he'd become no better than his former abuser and thus, unworthy of Gabby's love.]]

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* In Creator/SeaburyQuinn's [[OccultDetective Jules De Grandin series]], the title character often deals with various very awful people in ''truly'' brutal fashion. Like the {{Necromancer}} in one story who uses his [[ZombieMooks undead slaves]] as both [[ILoveTheDead concubines]] and to [[WouldHarmAChild [[WouldHurtAChild murder a three-year-old]]. De Grandin ends up trying to arrest him alongside a local cop, but he [[ExactWords "fell down the stairs and broke his neck."]] [[CowboyCop The officer adds "He had to do it twice, the first time wasn't enough."]]
* [[DeconstructedTrope Desconstructed]] in the ''Creator/SophieHannah'' novel The Carrier, concerning a mystery about why Tim Breary confesses the to murdering his wife Francine, but claims he doesn't know why he did it. [[spoiler: It turns out that it was actually Francine's caretaker, Lauren, who decided to [[MercyKill put Francine out of her misery]] because Tim and his two best friends, Kerry and Dan, were endlessly abusing Francine, who had a stroke and was bedridden, unable to move or speak and justified it to themselves because of Francine's former DomesticAbuse towards Tim that [[DrivenToSuicide culminated in Tim trying to kill himself]]. When Gabrielle, the story's protagonist and Tim's former LoveInterest, {{Love Interest|s}}, discovers this, she realises Tim takes the fall for Lauren because he realises that he was basically torturing a victim who could not fight back and, regardless of her treatment of him, realises that he had no way of verifying Francine was the same person after having her stroke and that he'd become no better than his former abuser and thus, unworthy of Gabby's love.]]



** PlayedStraight throughout the series. A good portion of the games are spent slaughtering enemy [=NPCs=] and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and looted corpses behind. Doing so won't make you infamous in the slightest. This is even Lampshaded early in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]''. The local tavern owner in the FirstTown tells you that you're free to increase your skills on bandits, but if you try that on townsfolk it's called murder. He then points you in the direction of the closest bandit hideout. The guards will also tell you that outlaws legally have no rights, and you can deal with them as painfully as you want. Also lampshaded in ''Oblivion'' by the Countess of Leyawin: she says to go ahead and kill any outlaws you find and take their stuff: everybody on the right side of the law wins.

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** PlayedStraight [[PlayingWithATrope Played straight]] throughout the series. A good portion of the games are spent slaughtering enemy [=NPCs=] and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and looted corpses behind. Doing so won't make you infamous in the slightest. This is even Lampshaded early in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]''. The local tavern owner in the FirstTown tells you that you're free to increase your skills on bandits, but if you try that on townsfolk it's called murder. He then points you in the direction of the closest bandit hideout. The guards will also tell you that outlaws legally have no rights, and you can deal with them as painfully as you want. Also lampshaded in ''Oblivion'' by the Countess of Leyawin: she says to go ahead and kill any outlaws you find and take their stuff: everybody on the right side of the law wins.



* In the ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'' episode "Bismuth", Steven accidentally releases Bismuth, a Gem who was kept bubbled in the pocket dimension in Lion's mane. Bismuth seems friendly, and as the Crystal Gems' UltimateBlacksmith provides a few upgrades to the team's equipment. But then Steven learns why Bismuth was bubbled in the first place: [[spoiler: [[WellIntentionedExtremist Bismuth]] wanted to use her new secret weapon, the Breaking Point, to shatter the Diamond Authority and anyone loyal to them. Since shattering is a FateWorseThanDeath to Gems, Rose Quartz was against it, and the two came to blows. When [[AllLovingHero Steven]] is naturally against the Breaking Point as well, Bismuth [[WithUsOrAgainstUs snaps and attacks him]].]]

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* In the ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'' episode "Bismuth", Steven accidentally releases Bismuth, a Gem who was kept bubbled in the pocket dimension in Lion's mane. Bismuth seems friendly, and as the Crystal Gems' UltimateBlacksmith provides a few upgrades to the team's equipment. But then Steven learns why Bismuth was bubbled in the first place: [[spoiler: [[WellIntentionedExtremist Bismuth]] wanted to use her new secret weapon, the Breaking Point, to shatter the Diamond Authority and anyone loyal to them. Since shattering is a FateWorseThanDeath to Gems, Rose Quartz was against it, and the two came to blows. When [[AllLovingHero Steven]] is naturally against the Breaking Point as well, Bismuth [[WithUsOrAgainstUs snaps and attacks him]].]]him]]]].
31st Jan '18 10:38:55 AM BeerBaron
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* A common video game trope, but especially visible in ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''. By ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', most of the game is spent slaughtering humans and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and stripped bodies behind. Slaughtering bandits by the hundreds makes you no more infamous than you already are, even when stealing a single key would give infamy points.
** Lampshaded in the beginning of ''Morrowind''. The local tavern owner at the starting town tells you that you're free to increase your skills on bandits, but if you try that on townsfolk it's called murder. He then points you in the direction of the closest bandit hideout. The guards will also tell you that outlaws legally have no rights, and you can deal with them as painfully as you want. Also lampshaded in Oblivion by the Countess of Leyawin: she says to go ahead and kill any outlaws you find and take their stuff: everybody on the right side of the law wins.
** Same in ''VideoGame/MountAndBlade''. Attacking Travellers or Lords generally brings you in trouble with their government except if they're enemies to begin with, but all kinds of bandits, looters and raiders are free to be killed or knocked unconscious and then sold into slavery. They provide a good source of money and experience and most adventurers that have not (yet) sworn allegiance to a kingdom will likely spend all day bandit-hunting. It also happens between kingdoms, raiding, killing travelling farmers and merchants is ok as long as they belong to the enemy side, while of course every Calradian kingdom believes to be the only one with a justified claim to the throne, so the others are obviously evil impostors.

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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'':
** PlayedStraight throughout the series.
A common video game trope, but especially visible good portion of the games are spent slaughtering enemy [=NPCs=] and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and looted corpses behind. Doing so won't make you infamous in ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''. By the slightest. This is even Lampshaded early in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', most of the game is spent slaughtering humans and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and stripped bodies behind. Slaughtering bandits by the hundreds makes you no more infamous than you already are, even when stealing a single key would give infamy points.
** Lampshaded in the beginning of ''Morrowind''.
Morrowind]]''. The local tavern owner at in the starting town FirstTown tells you that you're free to increase your skills on bandits, but if you try that on townsfolk it's called murder. He then points you in the direction of the closest bandit hideout. The guards will also tell you that outlaws legally have no rights, and you can deal with them as painfully as you want. Also lampshaded in Oblivion ''Oblivion'' by the Countess of Leyawin: she says to go ahead and kill any outlaws you find and take their stuff: everybody on the right side of the law wins.
** ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'' has an "Infamy" tracker which goes up when you perform "evil" acts. Becoming the leader of the ThievesGuild or [[MurderInc Dark]] [[ReligionOfEvil Brotherhood]] naturally cause it to go up. However, slaughtering bandits, necromancers, and the like by the thousands won't increase your Infamy in the slightest, even when stealing ''a single key'' gives infamy points.
*
Same in ''VideoGame/MountAndBlade''. Attacking Travellers or Lords generally brings you in trouble with their government except if they're enemies to begin with, but all kinds of bandits, looters and raiders are free to be killed or knocked unconscious and then sold into slavery. They provide a good source of money and experience and most adventurers that have not (yet) sworn allegiance to a kingdom will likely spend all day bandit-hunting. It also happens between kingdoms, raiding, killing travelling farmers and merchants is ok as long as they belong to the enemy side, while of course every Calradian kingdom believes to be the only one with a justified claim to the throne, so the others are obviously evil impostors.
25th Jan '18 3:32:26 AM Euodiachloris
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'':

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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'':''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'': This trope is common to cultures and religions on both sides of the Narrow Sea. The North of Westeros on both sides of the Wall even codifies it in explicit language -- to deliberately not seek the active revenge of wrongs done to you is to anger the Old Gods and bring ruin to you and yours. This attitude tends to feed back into bloody cycles of violence without the Starks or other lords regularly stomping out fires.
23rd Jan '18 8:08:51 AM Derkhan
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* Karsa Orlong from ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' is not an innocent boyscout himself, but he is quite fond of dishing out [[KarmicDeath karmic deaths]], to paedophiles and slavers indiscriminately, since he finds their practices ''appalling''. When he learns that the High Mage Bidithal raped Felisin Younger, he [[spoiler: rips off his privates and shoves them down his throat]].

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* Karsa Orlong Orlong, a VillainProtagonist and walking BarbarianHero {{deconstruction}} from ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' the ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'', is not an innocent boyscout himself, but he is quite fond of dishing out [[KarmicDeath karmic deaths]], deaths]] to paedophiles and slavers indiscriminately, since he finds their practices ''appalling''. When he learns that the High Mage Bidithal raped Felisin Younger, he [[spoiler: rips [[spoiler:rips off his privates and shoves them down his throat]].
15th Jan '18 4:09:56 PM thatother1dude
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* Common in children's shows for the main characters with special powers to torment bullies. Hey, they deserve it, right?
15th Jan '18 4:09:39 PM thatother1dude
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** Ruthlessly subverted in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 1}}''. Attempt to kill [[ImAHumanitarian the enterprising businessman]] Iguana Bob, and the entire town - including the heavily armed Police Force, the local Mob and visiting caravan drivers - turn hostile and try to retaliate. Your karma meter is also penalized if you choose to spare Bob's life and instead blackmail him over his secret. The secret, I might add, that no one will believe, and over which they will try to kill ''you'' for acting directly!
** In ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', killing bandits raises your Karma meter, which is fair enough. It also goes up when you kill drug dealers and pimps, which still makes sense. But killing 'prostitutes' also raises the Karma meter (not by much, [[DisposableSexWorker but damn]])! It's kinda funny that a character is revered as a great hero for killing masses of whores. [[SarcasmMode Jack the Ripper: Hero of the Wasteland!]]
*** Of course, the Karma boost from killing prostitutes is offset by the Karma drop you get from killing the mobs of civilians who start attacking you because you're publicly gunning people down in the street.

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** Ruthlessly subverted in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 1}}''.''VideoGame/Fallout1''. Attempt to kill [[ImAHumanitarian the enterprising businessman]] Iguana Bob, and the entire town - including the heavily armed Police Force, the local Mob and visiting caravan drivers - turn hostile and try to retaliate. Your karma meter is also penalized if you choose to spare Bob's life and instead blackmail him over his secret. The secret, I might add, that no one will believe, and over which they will try to kill ''you'' for acting directly!
** In ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', killing bandits raises your Karma meter, which is fair enough. It also goes up when you kill drug dealers and pimps, which still makes sense. sense[[labelnote]]Though[[/labelnote]] If you get caught, [[AllianceMeter other people of their faction]] will attack you, and killing them generally ''will'' lower your karma.[[/labelnote]]. But killing 'prostitutes' also raises the Karma meter (not meter--not by much, [[DisposableSexWorker but damn]])! damn]]! It's kinda funny that a character is revered as a great hero for killing masses of whores. [[SarcasmMode Jack the Ripper: Hero of the Wasteland!]]
*** Of course, the Karma boost from killing prostitutes is offset by the Karma drop you get from killing the mobs of civilians who start attacking you because you're publicly gunning people down in the street.
Wasteland!



*** This trope is also played 100% straight, in ''Fallout 3'', ''New Vegas'', and ''Fallout 4'' in the case of Raiders. The laundry list: Kidnapping, banditry, torturing people literally to death, desecrating corpses to the point they aren't always recognizable as human any more, and sexually assaulting the people they capture-just to name a few. Oh, and to even be considered for joining their ranks? You have to prove you're at least as bad as they are. No wonder waltzing in and methodically murdering every last resident of a Raider camp, then stealing everything that isn't bolted down, is never considered a bad thing.

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*** This trope is also played 100% straight, in ''Fallout 3'', ''New Vegas'', and ''Fallout 4'' in the case of Raiders. The laundry list: Kidnapping, banditry, torturing people literally to death, desecrating corpses to the point they aren't always recognizable as human any more, and sexually assaulting the people they capture-just capture--just to name a few. Oh, and to even be considered for joining their ranks? You have to prove you're at least as bad as they are. No wonder waltzing in and methodically murdering every last resident of a Raider camp, then stealing everything that isn't bolted down, is never considered a bad thing.



*** It should be noted that in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' you can also get a perk that gives you a bonus for killing ''good'' characters. It's also one of the few games that punishes ''either'' side of the karma line. If you're evil, the Regulators come after you; if you're good, criminals start hiring the Talon Mercenaries to hunt you down.

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*** It should be noted that in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' you can also get a perk that gives you a bonus for killing ''good'' characters. It's also one of the few games that punishes ''either'' side of the karma line. If you're evil, the Regulators come after you; if you're good, criminals start hiring the Talon Mercenaries to hunt you down.



** Downplayed in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' due to the absence of KarmaMeter, but still present in various storylines and [=NPCs=]:

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** Downplayed in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' Not a part of the gameplay of ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' due to the absence of KarmaMeter, but still present in various storylines and [=NPCs=]:
9th Jan '18 4:34:25 PM Dravencour
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* ''WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles'': Mr. Incredible kills the villain by causing him to get sucked into his plane's engine. Granted, the villain had previously murdered a great portion of his fellow superheroes, nearly killed his family and tried to kidnap his baby son to raise as a supervillain sidekick, but it's pretty jarring that earlier, he had mocked Incredible for his inability to resort to murder. What makes it worse is that Mr. Incredible did it right in front of [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath his whole family.]] It should be noted, however, that Mr. Incredible did not directly throw the villain into the engine. He threw a car at the plane, and the collision is what threw the villain to his death. The scene remains ambiguous on whether Mr. Incredible did it on purpose or not. Though he still tried to throw a car at Syndrome's face, so arguably it's still this trope. In the [[LicensedGame videogame adaptation]] it's even worse: even prior to Syndrome's StartOfDarkness, Mr. Incredible had little to no problem with '''throwing minor thugs from the roofs of scyscrapers to their doom'''.

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* ''WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles'': Mr. Incredible kills the villain by causing him to get sucked into his plane's engine. Granted, the villain had previously murdered a great portion of his fellow superheroes, nearly killed his family and tried to kidnap his baby son to raise as a supervillain sidekick, but it's pretty jarring that earlier, he had mocked Incredible for his inability to resort to murder. What makes it worse is that Mr. Incredible did it right in front of [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath his whole family.]] It should be noted, however, that Mr. Incredible did not directly throw the villain into the engine. He threw a car at the plane, and the collision is what threw the villain to his death. The scene remains ambiguous on whether Mr. Incredible did it on purpose or not. Though he still tried to throw a car at Syndrome's face, so arguably it's still this trope. In the [[LicensedGame videogame adaptation]] it's even worse: even prior to Syndrome's StartOfDarkness, Mr. Incredible had little to no problem with '''throwing minor thugs from the roofs of scyscrapers skyscrapers to their doom'''.
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