History Main / MagicVersusScience

23rd Sep '17 8:37:04 PM Kamiguy123
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* This is the premise of the setting of ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' and its SpinOff ''Manga/ACertainScientificRailgun'', with a secret EnforcedColdWar going on between the two factions. Magic is secret and controlled by religion while science is public. PsychicPowers are classified as scientific even though they share the category "supernatural" with magic in this setting and tend to break all known laws of physics, due to being widely accepted and studied (most espers know exactly what laws their power breaks and how to make the most of that). The really odd thing is that when it comes right down to it, the only difference between the two sides is methods. Espers ''are'' magicians--that's not a snarky reference to MagicByAnyOtherName, they are literally highly specialized magic users who are unable to use any other form of magic. The science side as a whole makes a lot more sense when you remember that modern espers were invented by an evil wizard.

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* This is the premise of the setting of ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' and its SpinOff ''Manga/ACertainScientificRailgun'', with a secret EnforcedColdWar going on between the two factions. Magic is secret and controlled by religion while science is public. PsychicPowers are classified as scientific even though they share the category "supernatural" with magic in this setting and tend to break all known laws of physics, due to being widely accepted and studied (most espers know exactly what laws their power breaks and how to make the most of that). The really odd thing is that when it comes right down to it, the only difference between the two sides is methods. Espers ''are'' magicians--that's not a snarky reference to MagicByAnyOtherName, they are literally highly specialized magic users who are unable to use any other form of magic. The science side as a whole makes a lot more sense when you remember that modern espers were invented by an ''[[UsefulNotes/AleisterCrowley evil wizard.]]''
18th Sep '17 10:10:02 AM TheKaizerreich
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*** The weird relationship can also be explained simply because of a lack of frame and perspective ''other'' than religion at the time. Many scientists honoured nowadays for their accomplishments, such as Newton, were flat-earthers simply because ''nothing else was available'', and many of them were motivated to figure out how the real world works because they wanted to ''prove'' God, not refute, even though the refutation eventually won out simply because the ancient texts don't offer a correct world view, but as they were taught from birth influenced the researchers negatively with false preconceptions. Brahe fell into this trap and proposed a weird geocentric-esque model despite his otherwise correct ideas and observations. He might have changed his mind had he not died before the invention of the telescope so he could have measured stellar parallax, for example.
8th Sep '17 12:41:50 PM SeptimusHeap
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* In the [[WebVideo/ImAMarvelAndImADC Randomverse]], Franchise/{{Batman}} puts this trope to use in the second season of After Hours. He deduces that something magical is blocking Franchise/{{Spider-Man}}'s memories of [[Comicbook/OneMoreDay his marriage]] and tells Joker to have [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Lance]] read his mind. Lance explodes from his systems overloading, as, according to Batman, "Science and magic usually don't mix."

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* In the [[WebVideo/ImAMarvelAndImADC Randomverse]], Franchise/{{Batman}} puts this trope to use in the second season of After Hours. He deduces that something magical is blocking Franchise/{{Spider-Man}}'s Franchise/SpiderMan's memories of [[Comicbook/OneMoreDay his marriage]] and tells Joker to have [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Lance]] read his mind. Lance explodes from his systems overloading, as, according to Batman, "Science and magic usually don't mix."
24th Aug '17 3:28:55 AM Alas_Poor_Donny
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** While actual science and the spark seem to be incompatible in the sense that a person with the magical spark typically cannot do science and vice versa, the residents of the setting have more or less noticed this and subverted the conflict to get around the problem. Wealthy spark families hire scientists to do support work, and aspiring engineers are shown to take partially-finished designs to sparks to 'cheat' over steps they cannot figure out. Professor Beetle in the first chapter is a good example of how much prosperity this can create.
*** The two exceptions to the "no spark and actual science in the same person" rule are also the single most powerful spark of the "current" era and the most powerful spark in history, respectively. A magician who can actually relate to the world in a coherent way while doing his magic is close to unbeatable.
21st Aug '17 12:56:13 AM AdamC
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** Said storyline actually ''does'' include a scene in which Ben Grimm calls out Reed's dislike for magic as just coming from the fact that he's no longer the smartest man in the room whenever the subject comes up. And further that after meeting countless sorcerers and mages over the years, Reed's insistence that magic isn't real has long since crossed the line from [[ArbitrarySkepticism reasonable skepticism]] and into [[FlatEarthAthiest outright stubbornness.]]
-->''"Franklin's nanny was a witch!"''


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* As mentioned above, Reed Richards of the ComicBook/FantasticFour has a lot of issues with magic, and will often claim that it doesn't exist or that it's just another branch of science. It's been proven multiple times that despite being the world's smartest man, Reed has ''never'' been able to get a proper grasp or understanding of magic, but he ''does'' often square off against it with his scientific mind when utilized by various villains. For the record, Ben Grimm once called Reed out on this tendency, and suggested the ''real'' reason Reed never acknowledges magic as real is that he's no longer the smartest man in the room whenever the subject comes up. He also points out that after meeting countless sorcerers and mages over the years, Reed's insistence that magic isn't real has long since crossed the line from [[ArbitrarySkepticism reasonable skepticism]] and into [[FlatEarthAtheist outright stubbornness.]]
-->"Fer cryin' out loud, Franklin's ''nanny'' was a witch!"
21st Aug '17 12:50:44 AM AdamC
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** Said storyline actually ''does'' include a scene in which Ben Grimm calls out Reed's dislike for magic as just coming from the fact that he's no longer the smartest man in the room whenever the subject comes up. And further that after meeting countless sorcerers and mages over the years, Reed's insistence that magic isn't real has long since crossed the line from [[ArbitrarySkepticism reasonable skepticism]] and into [[FlatEarthAthiest outright stubbornness.]]
-->''"Franklin's nanny was a witch!"''
17th Jul '17 2:38:53 PM bfunc
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** There are a ''lot'' of parallels between science and magic. One character is "only" a Master Sorcerer (that is, he has a Master's degree in Magic) because he "couldn't handle the math" required to go on and get a doctorate [=("Th.D.")=]. Another character ''has'' a doctorate, but is, for whatever reason, psychically "blind" to magic. He knows how it works possibly better than anyone else alive, it just doesn't work for him. Finally, a third character who is killed on the first page of the story he's in (the story is about Lord Darcy investigating the man's death) is revealed in short order to also have been "blind" to magic. In his case he decided that magic was all just trickery, and he's spent much of his life investigating the physical sciences, in particular chemistry, which (partially thanks to him) is just barely beginning to come out of the "alchemy" stage in Darcy's world.


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** Their computer, "Hex", has bugs. Literally. Specifically, it's partly based on colonies of bees and ants.
2nd Jul '17 11:27:11 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** Substituting magic for {{ki|Manipulation}}, there's a moment of this in the Saiyan arc. The Saiyans rely on the scouters to locate and quantify power levels, whereas the Earthlings train themselves to sense them (as well as willingly surpress them). So, due to the Raditz's overreliance on his scouter, he underestimates Goku, Gohan and Piccolo, and dies for it. When Vegeta and Nappa touch down, Vegeta orders Nappa to discard the scouters, [[GenreSavvy having worked out that the scouters are misleading; the Earthlings can modulate and mask their power levels.]]

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** Substituting magic for {{ki|Manipulation}}, there's a moment of this in the Saiyan arc. The Saiyans rely on the scouters to locate and quantify power levels, whereas the Earthlings train themselves to sense them (as well as willingly surpress them). So, due to the Raditz's overreliance on his scouter, he underestimates Goku, Gohan and Piccolo, and dies for it. When Vegeta and Nappa touch down, Vegeta orders Nappa to discard the scouters, [[GenreSavvy having worked out that the scouters are misleading; the Earthlings can modulate and mask their power levels.]]
13th Jun '17 6:17:31 PM intastiel
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* ''TabletopGame/ArsMagica'' 3[[superscript:rd]] edition encodes this as a ScrappyMechanic: "Reason" is a force alongside the Divine, Infernal, Magical, and Fae realms; so places like laboratories and people with True Reason erode magic, potentially with PuffOfLogic effects. The ''illogic'' of [[ArbitrarySkepticism Reason being opposed to magic]], when magic is transparently real and is studied through strong scholarly traditions of its own, led to the mechanic being scrapped in later editions.

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* ''TabletopGame/ArsMagica'' 3[[superscript:rd]] edition encodes this as a ScrappyMechanic: "Reason" is a force alongside the Divine, Infernal, Magical, and Fae realms; so places like laboratories and people with True Reason erode magic, potentially with PuffOfLogic effects. The ''illogic'' of [[ArbitrarySkepticism Reason being opposed to magic]], when magic is transparently real and is studied through strong [[FantasticScience scholarly traditions traditions]] of its own, led to the mechanic being scrapped in later editions.
13th Jun '17 6:15:21 PM intastiel
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* ''TabletopGame/ArsMagica'' 3[[superscript:rd]] edition encodes this as a ScrappyMechanic: "Reason" is a force alongside the Divine, Infernal, Magical, and Fae realms; so places like laboratories and people with True Reason erode magic, potentially with PuffOfLogic effects. The ''illogic'' of [[ArbitrarySkepticism Reason being opposed to magic]], when magic is transparently real and is studied through strong scholarly traditions of its own, led to the mechanic being scrapped in later editions.
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