History Main / GunsAreWorthless

28th Jun '16 5:56:06 AM TheBigBopper
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* Played with in ''Manga/AttackOnTitan''. While huge cannons rip through Titans easily due to Titans being MadeOfPlasticine, the Titan's HealingFactor doesn't let it keep them down for more than a few minutes, and while the have more than enough power to blow away [[AttackItsWeakPoint the back of the Titans' necks]], they're too heavy and inaccurate to do so outside of a lucky hit. However it is somewhat averted that cannons are used effectively to slow down Titans and give civilians time to evacuate. Also, high-explosive shells are used to wipe out Titans in during the end of the Battle of Trost. And when [[spoiler:Titans are sighted within Wall Rose]], the Garrison used cannons to bring down Titans and let elite soldiers like Rico finish them off. Rifles, on the other hand, while light and accurate enough to hit the weak point, do not have enough power behind them to deal the fatal blow needed. As with cannons, however, they have shown to be useful in supporting those with 3DMG, and dealing damage to Titan's weaker parts, such as the eyes.

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* Played with in ''Manga/AttackOnTitan''. While huge cannons rip through Titans easily due to Titans being MadeOfPlasticine, the Titan's HealingFactor doesn't let it keep them down for more than a few minutes, and while the have more than enough power to blow away [[AttackItsWeakPoint the back of the Titans' necks]], they're too heavy and inaccurate to do so outside of a lucky hit. However it is somewhat averted downplayed in that cannons are used effectively to slow down Titans and give civilians time to evacuate. Also, high-explosive shells are used to wipe out Titans in during the end of the Battle of Trost. And when [[spoiler:Titans are sighted within Wall Rose]], the Garrison used cannons to bring down Titans and let elite soldiers like Rico finish them off. Rifles, on the other hand, while light and accurate enough to hit the weak point, do not have enough power behind them to deal the fatal blow needed. As with cannons, however, they have shown to be useful in supporting those with 3DMG, and dealing damage to Titan's weaker parts, such as the eyes.
9th Jun '16 10:46:39 PM Morgenthaler
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** In ''Movie/JurassicPark'', Alan Grant's SPAS-12 loaded with slugs proved unable to even hit velociraptors behind glass, and the weapon suffered a stovepipe jam in the end.
** In ''Movie/TheLostWorld:JurassicPark'', the hunters pretty much killed nothing with their automatic rifles, and Ronald Tembo's double rifle was unable to take down a T-rex, because [[SarcasmMode good guy]] [[DesignatedHero Nick]] stole the bullets.
** The mercenaries in ''Movie/JurassicParkIII'' open fire with Barrett M82s into the jungle, but drop them and run when confronted by a Spinosaurus.
** The leading character Owen Grady in ''Movie/JurassicWorld'' uses a formidable .45-70 lever-action rifle, but it could not even tickle the Indominus Rex during the last battle.

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** In ''Movie/JurassicPark'', ''Film/JurassicPark'', Alan Grant's SPAS-12 loaded with slugs proved unable to even hit velociraptors behind glass, and the weapon suffered a stovepipe jam in the end.
** In ''Movie/TheLostWorld:JurassicPark'', ''Film/TheLostWorldJurassicPark'', the hunters pretty much killed nothing with their automatic rifles, and Ronald Tembo's double rifle was unable to take down a T-rex, because [[SarcasmMode good guy]] [[DesignatedHero Nick]] stole the bullets.
** The mercenaries in ''Movie/JurassicParkIII'' ''Film/JurassicParkIII'' open fire with Barrett M82s into the jungle, but drop them and run when confronted by a Spinosaurus.
** The leading character Owen Grady in ''Movie/JurassicWorld'' ''Film/JurassicWorld'' uses a formidable .45-70 lever-action rifle, but it could not even tickle the Indominus Rex during the last battle.
9th Jun '16 4:37:12 PM FGHIK
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** In ''Movie/TheLostWorld:JurassicPark'', the hunters pretty much killed nothing with their automatic rifles, and Ronald Tembo's double rifle was unable to take down a T-rex, because good guy Nick stole the bullets.

to:

** In ''Movie/TheLostWorld:JurassicPark'', the hunters pretty much killed nothing with their automatic rifles, and Ronald Tembo's double rifle was unable to take down a T-rex, because [[SarcasmMode good guy Nick guy]] [[DesignatedHero Nick]] stole the bullets.
4th May '16 3:18:07 PM Alceister
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** Musashi was a great proponent of a musket because he himself probably had a lot of experience ''wielding'' one. He was for much of his career a ''ronin'' of unclear origin, and while he definitely fought in the Battle of Sekigahara, it was probably on the wrong side (which would explain the whole ''ronin'' thing). All these things considered, his original career would've most realistically been a one of an ''ashigaru'' musketeer, before he turned himself to the way of sword.

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** Musashi was a great proponent of a musket because he himself probably had a lot of experience ''wielding'' one. He was for much of his career a ''ronin'' of unclear origin, and while he definitely fought in the Battle of Sekigahara, it was probably on the wrong side (which would explain the whole ''ronin'' thing). All these things considered, his original career would've most realistically been a one was likely that of an ''ashigaru'' musketeer, arquebusier, before he turned himself to the way of sword.
10th Apr '16 10:18:49 PM Alceister
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** Musashi was a great proponent of a musket because he himself probably had a lot of experience ''wielding'' one. He was for much of his career a ''ronin'' of unclear origin, and while he definitely fought in the Battle of Sekigahara, it was probably on the wrong side (which would explain the whole ''ronin'' thing). All these things considered, hisoriginal career would've most realistically been a one of an ''ashigaru'' musketeer, before he turned himself to the way of sword.

to:

** Musashi was a great proponent of a musket because he himself probably had a lot of experience ''wielding'' one. He was for much of his career a ''ronin'' of unclear origin, and while he definitely fought in the Battle of Sekigahara, it was probably on the wrong side (which would explain the whole ''ronin'' thing). All these things considered, hisoriginal his original career would've most realistically been a one of an ''ashigaru'' musketeer, before he turned himself to the way of sword.
30th Mar '16 11:42:56 AM desslok
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Added DiffLines:

** And then in a later 10th Doctor episode, UNIT was able to adapt their bullets to work against the Sontarans after they were rendered non-functional.
21st Mar '16 11:29:47 PM TitaniumDragon
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*** One must recognize the difference between a ''musket'' and a ''rifled musket''. A musket is notoriously inaccurate and must be used ''en masse'' to have any effectiveness. A rifled musket, the primary weapon on both sides of the American Civil War, is extremely accurate and a single aimed shot can be reasonably expected to hit its intended target. This is the primary reason for the casualty rates during the conflict. The relative newness of the rifled musket meant that tactics had not yet adjusted to their use. Armies lined up in formations designed to maximize the effectiveness of inaccurate weapons, and then opened fire on each other with very accurate weapons. The tactical evolution to compensate for the new technology is blatantly obvious when you compare the early battles of the war with, say, the Siege of Petersburg which basically used tactics more commonly associated with the sieges of Sevastopol (Crimean War), Port Arthur (Russo-Japanese War), and World War I in general.

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*** One must recognize the The difference lay between a ''musket'' smoothbore muskets and a ''rifled musket''. A musket is notoriously inaccurate and must be used ''en masse'' to have any effectiveness. A rifled musket, muskets (early rifles). Rifles are so-named for having rifled barrels - that is to say, there is a texture inside the primary weapon on both sides barrel which introduces a spin onto the bullet as it is fired. The net result is a stabilized bullet which flies a lot straighter. High-quality rifles of the time were quite accurate weapons, while smoothbore muskets were not. Experiments at the time found that the common muskets used by soldiers would only strike a target at typical combat ranges roughly 40% of the time. It is commonly claimed that the Civil War was fought using outdated tactics with more advanced weaponry, but the reality is that due to the nature of command and communications at the time, fighting in large line formations was often the only practical way to conduct an organized battle. In situations where other tactics were available for use, fighting changed considerably; some of the later battles in the Civil War featured early TrenchWarfare. Additionally, over the course of the Civil War, increasingly sophisticated weapons became more and more affordable. The reason that muskets were used was not because they couldn't build anything better - repeating rifles were invented prior to the American Civil War, is extremely accurate and a single aimed shot can be reasonably expected Revolution, more than 80 years prior - but because such weapons were too expensive (and consumed too much ammunition) to hit its intended target. This is the primary reason for the casualty rates during the conflict. The relative newness of the rifled musket meant that tactics had not yet adjusted to supply all their use. Armies lined up in formations designed to maximize the effectiveness of inaccurate weapons, and then opened fire on each other soldiers with very accurate weapons. The tactical evolution to compensate for the new technology is blatantly obvious when you compare the early battles of the war with, say, the Siege of Petersburg which basically used tactics more commonly associated with the sieges of Sevastopol (Crimean War), Port Arthur (Russo-Japanese War), and World War I in general.one.
21st Mar '16 11:18:36 PM TitaniumDragon
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** Based on accuracy, effective firing range and rate of fire, a unit of bowman would outmatch any similarly-sized unit of musketeers up to at least the years around the Crimean and American Civil Wars (1850s-60s) when the rifled musket became widely available, and it was really only with the introduction of repeating rifles that they were surpassed. However...
** Even the early model guns were not ''completely'' worthless. They may have been less effective than bows and melee weapons, but virtually ''anyone'' - no matter how small, weak, illiterate, or poor - could use them. The recruiting pool for gun-men encompassed the entire social strata, whereas it was only the big and burly sons of nobles and rich peasants who were physically big and strong enough to use the more efficient weapons. Moreover it would only take them a few days to train musketmen (or even women, for those rare cultures able to get away with doubling their our potential recruiting pool by using them), rather than weeks or months or years. This made the replacement-rate for passable musketmen truly astronomical by comparison.

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** Based on accuracy, effective firing range and rate of fire, a unit of bowman would outmatch any similarly-sized unit of musketeers up to at least the years around the Crimean and American Civil Wars (1850s-60s) when the rifled musket became widely available, and it was really only with the introduction of repeating rifles that they were surpassed. However...
** Even
Note that repeating rifles are themselves OlderThanTheyThink; the early model guns were not ''completely'' worthless. They may have been less first repeating rifle was invented prior to the American Civil War, and was taken on the Lewis and Clark expedition. Notably, it was actually a very powerful air gun capable of firing bullets as powerfully as a musket of the era.
*** That said, their "uselessness" is actually grossly exaggerated. Training bowmen was very expensive and time consuming, while training men to line up and shoot muskets at each other was very easy and inexpensive, making it possible to field large,
effective than bows armies and quickly replace losses. Affixing bayonets to the ends of muskets allowed them to act as spearmen of sorts as well. Combined with the loud noises guns can make (which can startle horses) as well as the decline of armor on the battlefield and less of a need to engage in (very dangerous) melee weapons, but virtually ''anyone'' - no matter how small, weak, illiterate, or poor - could use them. The recruiting pool for gun-men encompassed the entire social strata, whereas it was only the big and burly sons of nobles and rich peasants who combat, there were physically big a lot of reasons why units of gunmen took over warfare. Notably, rifling was invented in the ''16th century'', but rifled firearms were expensive and strong enough to use rare at the time. Ironically, rifled weapons weren't used for the same reason that bows weren't - they were expensive (and even more efficient weapons. Moreover it would only take them a few days difficult to train musketmen (or produce than bows). Skilled snipers using rifles existed even women, for those rare cultures able at the time of the American revolutionary war, and were very dangerous on the battlefield. Likewise, the first repeating rifle was invented in the 1770s, but they didn't enter common use until after the American Civil War, again due to get away with doubling their our potential recruiting pool by using them), rather than weeks or months or years. This made the replacement-rate for passable musketmen truly astronomical by comparison. expense.
19th Mar '16 5:43:31 AM supergod
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* ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'' was criticised for having all firearms be severely underpowered compared to melee weaponry. This was especially odd given that the background mentioned a war between two of the kingdoms of Arcanum in which the elite knights of the more backward one had been easily slaughtered by volley fire from poorly trained Tarantian conscripts.

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* ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'' was criticised for having all notably had firearms be severely underpowered compared to melee weaponry. This was especially odd given that the background mentioned a war between two of the kingdoms of Arcanum in which the elite knights of the more backward one had been easily slaughtered by volley fire from poorly trained Tarantian conscripts.
18th Mar '16 11:05:40 AM Captain_Barbarossa
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* ''VideoGame/PiratesVikingsAndKnights'': While the {{Pirates}}' guns are not totally worthless, they're generally far less effective than the melee weapons. They are best as an opening attack or for a TacticalWithdrawal. The notable exception to this is the [[LongRangeFighter Sharpshooter's]] long rifle.

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* ''VideoGame/PiratesVikingsAndKnights'': While the {{Pirates}}' guns are not totally worthless, they're generally far less effective than the melee weapons. They The guns are best used as an opening attack or for a TacticalWithdrawal. The notable exception to this is the [[LongRangeFighter Sharpshooter's]] long rifle.
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