History Main / GodwinsLaw

3rd May '16 11:56:42 AM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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Occasionally Stalin is referenced, often by [[GenreSavvy people who are aware of]] Godwin's Law but want to convey a similar message; in this case, this might slip into the CommieNazis trope. Some people will be topical and use UsefulNotes/{{Osama bin Laden}} or slavery (especially America's brand of it) as the canonical ultimate evil. However, any of these can also be seen to have violated Godwin's Law, since the point remains: comparing your argument to a clear and non-debatable atrocity is simply bad debating, since it implies that the opposition has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and is obviously insensitive to real-life victims and their descendants.

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Occasionally Stalin is referenced, often by [[GenreSavvy people who are aware of]] Godwin's Law but want to convey a similar message; in this case, this might slip into the CommieNazis trope. Some people will be topical and use UsefulNotes/{{Osama bin Laden}} terrorism or slavery (especially America's brand of it) {{slavery|IsASpecialKindOfEvil}} as the canonical ultimate evil. However, any of these can also be seen to have violated Godwin's Law, since the point remains: comparing your argument to a clear and non-debatable atrocity is simply bad debating, since it implies that the opposition has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and is obviously insensitive to real-life victims and their descendants.
3rd May '16 11:54:31 AM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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As Quirk's Exception points out, attempting to invoke Godwin's Law ''intentionally'' in order to force-terminate a thread rarely works. All the same, shouting "Hitler!" is a fun way to express your opinion that a thread should be put to rest. Of course, it's also helping Hitler indirectly, as his greatest expressed wish was to be remembered forever, which means that you're [[HypocriticalHumor just as bad as Hitler, you horrible Nazi-bastard.]] However, this corollary ''is not'' in the law itself. Likewise, trying to bait your opponent into breaking the law is poor form too. Sometimes commenters will try to get around mentioning Hitler's name directly (e.g. "You know who ELSE got rejected in art school? THAT'S RIGHT."), but this is really no better.

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As Quirk's Exception points out, attempting to invoke Godwin's Law ''intentionally'' in order to force-terminate a thread rarely works. All the same, shouting "Hitler!" is a fun way to express your opinion that a thread should be put to rest. Of course, it's also helping Hitler indirectly, as his greatest expressed wish was to be remembered forever, which means that you're [[HypocriticalHumor [[SelfDemonstratingArticle just as bad as Hitler, you horrible Nazi-bastard.]] Nazi bastard]]. However, this corollary ''is not'' in the law itself. Likewise, trying to bait your opponent into breaking the law is poor form too. Sometimes commenters will try to get around mentioning Hitler's name directly (e.g. "You know who ELSE got rejected in art school? THAT'S RIGHT."), but this is really no better.
16th Mar '16 2:29:28 AM eroock
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[-[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]-]

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[-[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's \\
[[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]-]
16th Mar '16 2:28:57 AM eroock
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[[caption-width-right:261:[-There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card-]. ]]]]

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[[caption-width-right:261:[-There [-[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card-]. ]]]]
Card. ]]]]-]
16th Mar '16 2:28:38 AM eroock
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[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]

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[[caption-width-right:261:There [[caption-width-right:261:[-There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card.Card-]. ]]]]
18th Feb '16 9:12:26 PM eroock
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[[quoteright:261:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card.jpg]]]]

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[[quoteright:261:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card1.jpg]]]]
18th Feb '16 9:09:44 PM eroock
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[[quoteright:270:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitlercard2.jpg]]]]
[[caption-width-right:270:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]

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[[quoteright:270:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering [[quoteright:261:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitlercard2.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card.jpg]]]]
[[caption-width-right:270:There [[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's [[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]
30th Jan '16 12:43:02 PM StevieC
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Added DiffLines:

Mike Godwin ''himself'' has actually penned articles in major news outlets in attempts to clarify when comparisons to Nazism are and/or are not appropriate in current political debate, and lamented the need for him to write those articles as well.
10th Jan '16 7:17:31 PM Fireblood
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A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists. [[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists and consider him a victim of capitalist propaganda, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist.[[/note]]

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A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists. atheists (this is pretty common in many atheist vs. theist debates-it could almost be a trope of its own, though here it is part of HollywoodAtheist).[[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists and who consider him a victim of capitalist propaganda, propaganda and deny his crimes, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist.Stalinist. Stalin apologetics is unfortunately common in comparison with equivalent defenses for Hitler or the Nazis, as it hasn't gotten the same opprobrium (at least in some countries).[[/note]]



This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to the 1940s, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the Pharaoh of the Exodus, Pontius Pilate, or Judas.

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This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to the 1940s, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the Pharaoh of during the Exodus, Exodus (often thought to be Rameses II), Pontius Pilate, or Judas.
1st Oct '15 11:00:06 PM Fireblood
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Note that the [[CaptainObvious Law is not supposed to apply to serious discussions of]] [[http://xkcd.com/261/ Fascist Germany or its policies]], but rather describes the logical fallacy of Hitler/Nazi comparisons. The most common forms of this are [[HitlerAteSugar "The Nazis supported X, therefore X is bad/The Nazis opposed X, therefore X is good"]]. Whether using "Nazi" as a random insult falls under the Law is a matter of debate. Unfortunately, this has become so popular as to come full-circle, making any discussion of totalitarian regimes susceptible to "HAY GODWIN'S LAW HURR".

to:

Note that the [[CaptainObvious Law is not supposed to apply to serious discussions of]] [[http://xkcd.com/261/ Fascist Nazi Germany or its policies]], but rather describes the logical fallacy of Hitler/Nazi comparisons. The most common forms of this are [[HitlerAteSugar "The Nazis supported X, therefore X is bad/The Nazis opposed X, therefore X is good"]]. Whether using "Nazi" as a random insult falls under the Law is a matter of debate. Unfortunately, this has become so popular as to come full-circle, making any discussion of totalitarian regimes susceptible to "HAY GODWIN'S LAW HURR".



A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all Atheists. [[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists and consider him a victim of Capitalist propaganda, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist[[/note]]

to:

A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all Atheists. atheists. [[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists and consider him a victim of Capitalist capitalist propaganda, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist[[/note]]
Stalinist.[[/note]]



The [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYgcM4ftiQ ''Internetiquette'']] short of the fitfth episode of the Flemish investigative journalism series ''Basta'', which was called ''neveneffecten'', also showcases those 2 laws ("After a comparison with the nazi's there will always be a stupid guy that will refer to Godwin's law" is the second one) together with plenty of other laws that are present on the internet when they deconstructed the inner workings of an internet discussion. The thing is however as of yet only available in Dutch.

to:

The [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYgcM4ftiQ ''Internetiquette'']] short of the fitfth fifth episode of the Flemish investigative journalism series ''Basta'', which was called ''neveneffecten'', also showcases those 2 laws ("After a comparison with the nazi's Nazis there will always be a stupid guy that will refer to Godwin's law" is the second one) together with plenty of other laws that are present on the internet when they deconstructed the inner workings of an internet discussion. The thing is however as of yet only available in Dutch.
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