History Main / GodwinsLaw

17th Jul '17 4:23:32 PM jormis29
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A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists (this is pretty common in many atheist vs. theist debates-it could almost be a trope of its own, though here it is part of HollywoodAtheist).[[note]]It should be noted that Stalin was more like a victim of capitalist propaganda and RedScare, and none of his supposed "crimes" were proven.[[/note]]

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A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists (this is pretty common in many atheist vs. theist debates-it could almost be a trope of its own, though here it is part of HollywoodAtheist).[[note]]It should be noted that Stalin was more like a victim of capitalist propaganda and RedScare, and none of his supposed "crimes" were proven.[[/note]]
HollywoodAtheist).
17th Jul '17 4:21:37 PM Dedars1
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17th Jul '17 4:20:52 PM Dedars1
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A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists (this is pretty common in many atheist vs. theist debates-it could almost be a trope of its own, though here it is part of HollywoodAtheist).[[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists who consider him a victim of capitalist propaganda and deny his crimes, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist. Stalin apologetics is unfortunately common in comparison with equivalent defenses for Hitler or the Nazis, as it hasn't gotten the same opprobrium (at least in some countries).[[/note]]

to:

A good example of this can be found in one of the debates between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins. O'Reilly makes the argument that society needs religion to be moral because Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all atheists (this is pretty common in many atheist vs. theist debates-it could almost be a trope of its own, though here it is part of HollywoodAtheist).[[note]]It should be noted there are actual Marxists who refer to themselves as Stalinists who consider him that Stalin was more like a victim of capitalist propaganda and deny RedScare, and none of his crimes, the most noteworthy/infamous being The Espresso Stalinist. Stalin apologetics is unfortunately common in comparison with equivalent defenses for Hitler or the Nazis, as it hasn't gotten the same opprobrium (at least in some countries).supposed "crimes" were proven.[[/note]]
8th Jul '17 8:41:12 PM Willbyr
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[[quoteright:261:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card1.jpg]]]]
[-[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's \\
[[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]-]

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[[quoteright:261:[[TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hitler_card1.jpg]]]]
[-[[caption-width-right:261:There are some things stupid arguments can't solve. For everything else, there's \\
[[HitlerAteSugar The Hitler Card. ]]]]-]
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1st Jul '17 3:29:50 PM nombretomado
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Also known as "Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies". Originated by Richard Sexton, and popularized by Mike Godwin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (and of [[TheOtherWiki the Wikimedia Foundation]] until 2010) in 1990 in the form:

to:

Also known as "Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies". Originated by Richard Sexton, and popularized by Mike Godwin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (and of [[TheOtherWiki [[Wiki/{{Wikipedia}} the Wikimedia Foundation]] until 2010) in 1990 in the form:
14th May '17 5:30:32 PM KGBtheRussianSpy
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Heavily overlaps with {{demonization}} and can be seen as its modern, secular adaptation. See also AbominationAccusationAttack. Not to be confused with GodwinsLawOfTimeTravel. It ''might'' be justified when seriously discussing [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide genocide]], since UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust is pretty much the TropeCodifier that most other genocides are measured against. The word was even first coined in reference to it.

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Heavily overlaps with {{demonization}} and can be seen as its modern, secular adaptation. See also AbominationAccusationAttack. Not to be confused with GodwinsLawOfTimeTravel. It ''might'' be justified when seriously discussing [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide genocide]], since UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust is pretty much the TropeCodifier that most other genocides are measured against. The word was even first coined in reference to it.
against.
11th Apr '17 7:22:43 AM rjd1922
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->"Any off-topic mention of Hitler or Nazis will cause the thread it is mentioned in to come to an irrelevant and off-topic end very soon; every thread on {{Usenet}} has a constantly-increasing probability to contain such a mention."

to:

->"Any off-topic mention of Hitler [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler Hitler]] or Nazis will cause the thread it is mentioned in to come to an irrelevant and off-topic end very soon; every thread on {{Usenet}} Website/{{Usenet}} has a constantly-increasing probability to contain such a mention."



Occasionally Stalin is referenced, often by [[WrongGenreSavvy people who are aware of]] Godwin's Law but want to convey a similar message; in this case, this might slip into the CommieNazis trope. The Greek political party [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dawn_(political_party) Golden Dawn]] has also been used for the same purpose, though it is still mostly used in European parliaments and it is very likely that the only reason why is because only they know what it means. Some people will be topical and use terrorism or {{slavery|IsASpecialKindOfEvil}} as the canonical ultimate evil. However, any of these can also be seen to have violated Godwin's Law, since the point remains: comparing your argument to a clear and non-debatable atrocity is simply bad debating, since it implies that the opposition has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and is obviously insensitive to real-life victims and their descendants.

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Occasionally Stalin UsefulNotes/JosefStalin is referenced, often by [[WrongGenreSavvy people who are aware of]] Godwin's Law but want to convey a similar message; in this case, this might slip into the CommieNazis trope. The Greek political party [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dawn_(political_party) Golden Dawn]] has also been used for the same purpose, though it is still mostly used in European parliaments and it is very likely that the only reason why is because only they know what it means. Some people will be topical and use terrorism or {{slavery|IsASpecialKindOfEvil}} as the canonical ultimate evil. However, any of these can also be seen to have violated Godwin's Law, since the point remains: comparing your argument to a clear and non-debatable atrocity is simply bad debating, since it implies that the opposition has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and is obviously insensitive to real-life victims and their descendants.
30th Jan '17 11:37:40 PM Adept
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->''"You wanna know [[HitlerAteSugar who else]] used laws to stop debates? [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler HITLER]]!"''
24th Jan '17 7:06:16 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the NephariousPharaoh from the Literature/BookOfExodus (often thought to be UsefulNotes/RamsesII), and Pontius Pilate and Judas Iscariot from the New Testament.

to:

This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the NephariousPharaoh from the Literature/BookOfExodus (often thought to be UsefulNotes/RamsesII), UsefulNotes/RamsesII) from the Literature/BookOfExodus, and Pontius Pilate and Judas Iscariot from the New Testament.
24th Jan '17 7:06:00 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the NephariousPharaoh during the Exodus (often thought to be UsefulNotes/RamsesII), Pontius Pilate, or Judas.

to:

This trope is (perhaps not surprisingly, given [[HumansAreBastards human nature]]) OlderThanTheyThink. Prior to UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, the go-to villains were generally [[Literature/TheBible Biblical]], such as the NephariousPharaoh during from the Exodus Literature/BookOfExodus (often thought to be UsefulNotes/RamsesII), and Pontius Pilate, or Judas.
Pilate and Judas Iscariot from the New Testament.
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