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[[caption-width-right:300:He has a point, you know.]]

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[[caption-width-right:300:He [[caption-width-right:250:He has a point, you know.]]
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Due to ValuesDissonance and SocietyMarchesOn, a moral that is family-unfriendly in one time and place may be very family-friendly in another, especially morals about social mores or civil rights (see FairForItsDay). This list is for morals that were family-unfriendly even for the culture for which they were written. A prime target for [[{{Anvilicious}} dropping anvils]].

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Due to ValuesDissonance and SocietyMarchesOn, a moral that is family-unfriendly in one time and place may be very family-friendly in another, another (or vice versa), especially morals about social mores or civil rights (see FairForItsDay). This list is for morals that were family-unfriendly even for the culture for which they were written. A prime target for [[{{Anvilicious}} dropping anvils]].
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* ''Film/LiarLiar'':
** As good a quality as honesty is, being [[BrutalHonesty brutally honest]] all the time will piss people off and get you into as much trouble as lying all the time.
** Sometimes lying to someone is better than telling them the truth. As explained by Fletcher when he talks about how a pregnant Audrey asked [[DoesThisMakeMeLookFat if she looked fat]] and he said no, and that if he'd told her she looked like a cow, it'd have hurt her feelings.
** Max then says "My teacher says that [[TrueBeautyIsOnTheInside real beauty is on the inside]]". Fletcher responds "That's just something ugly people say". It's pretty much irrefutable that physically attractive people [[ScrewTheRulesImBeautiful usually fair better in society]] and [[FavorsForTheSexy are treated more favorably]] than average-looking or unattractive people, even if their beauty [[BeautyIsBad is only external]]. The (in)famous scene with the woman in the elevator also demonstrates this.
-->'''Woman''': Everybody's been real nice.\\
'''Fletcher''': Well, that's because you have [[BuxomIsBetter big jugs...]]
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* ''VideoGame/NierAutomata'' has a existentialist theme of "The world is cruel, unforgiving and meaningless, and just the act of being alive in such a world is terrifying, but it's still possible to find purpose in a purposeless world, or find new purpose if your purpose is lost."
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* ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' shows Hermione creating a society to protest the servitude of the House Elves, as they are essentially slaves. However, the end result is that the elves ''like'' to work and most view payment as an insult. This was ''meant'' to be a more traditional aesop of "Don't project your own values and morality on cultures that operate quite differently", something Rowling had seen with well-intentioned but misguided activists who tried to "rescue" people from things [[ValuesDissonance they actually liked]], but it comes off this way due to having a slave race [[HappinessInSlavery who likes it]] (within limits-they don't really like abuse). Given that many real slaves have in the past been portrayed this way, it comes off as very wrong for many.

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* ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' shows Hermione creating a society to protest the servitude of the House Elves, as they are essentially slaves. slaves to Wizards. However, the end result is that the elves ''like'' to work for human wizards and most view payment as an insult. This was ''meant'' to be a more traditional aesop of "Don't project your own values and morality on cultures that operate quite differently", something Rowling had seen with well-intentioned but misguided activists [[WhiteMansBurden who tried to "rescue" people from things [[ValuesDissonance they actually liked]], but it comes off this way due to having a slave race SlaveRace [[HappinessInSlavery who likes it]] (within limits-they limits -- they don't really like abuse). being abused by their masters). Given that many real real-life slaves have in the past been portrayed this way, [[CluelessAesop it comes off as very wrong for many.many]].
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* Creator/MarquisDeSade's novels all had messages like these. All of them involve {{breaking speech}}es and {{Hannibal lecture}}s from the [[VillainProtagonist libertines]] toward their victims, or would-be libertines who have cold feet about their acts. Crime is a virtue, the strong naturally prey on the weak, God, objective morality, free will and kindness are just illusions etc.
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** In one strip, Calvin is debating whether he should spend his time playing outside, or focus on his schoolwork. He decides that playing will make him happier in the short term, studying will make him happier in the long term, but going to play outside would also make better memories. Not every day you see a comic tell kids to not care too much about their homework.

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** In one strip, Calvin is debating whether he should spend his time playing outside, or focus on his schoolwork. He decides that playing will make him happier in the short term, studying will make him happier in the long term, but going to play outside would also make better memories. Not every day you see a comic tell kids to not care too much about their homework. In fairness, it isn't necessarily ''endorsing'' this. Usually things are portrayed from Calvin's view, and of course it's as a bratty six-year old sees them (obviously different from most adults).
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** In the prequels, it is revealed that Jedi are not supposed to form long-term relationships, and especially not marry, as such emotional ties could lead to TheDarkSide by way of LoveMakesYouEvil. When this caused a ''lot'' of upset in fans (and [[Franchise/StarWarsLegends Expanded Universe]] writers) with visions of the Jedi Knights as romantic heroes, George Lucas pulled a FlipFlopOfGod to clarify that the Jedi didn't have to actually be CelibateHero types -- they could have casual sexual affairs but their commitment to the Order had to be their priority (comparable to those in law enforcement or military, you don't get out of responsibilities because of a childs birthday). But obviously that one was an even harder Aesop to explain to the kids.
** The revelation that the Republic era Jedi Order recruited Force Sensitive children at very young ages and required them to have no further contact with or knowledge of their families (because that would be an emotional attachment), made some fans view them as brainwashed ChildSoldiers. This policy was unfortunately validated by the fact that Anakin, allowed into the Order as a special case, ''did'' actually go bad because of his emotional ties. Likewise, Kylo Ren, Han and Leia's son, turned to the Dark Side at least partly because of conflict with his parents and their subsequent decision to pawn him off on Luke Skywalker in the hopes of corrective discipline.

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** In the prequels, it is revealed that Jedi are not supposed to form long-term relationships, and especially not marry, as such emotional ties could lead to TheDarkSide by way of LoveMakesYouEvil. When this caused a ''lot'' of upset in fans (and [[Franchise/StarWarsLegends Expanded Universe]] writers) with visions of the Jedi Knights as romantic heroes, George Lucas pulled a FlipFlopOfGod to clarify that the Jedi didn't have to actually be CelibateHero types -- they could have casual sexual affairs but their commitment to the Order had to be their priority (comparable to those in law enforcement or military, you don't get out of responsibilities because of a childs child's birthday). But obviously that one was an even harder Aesop to explain to the kids.
** The revelation that the Republic era Jedi Order recruited Force Sensitive children at very young ages and required them to have no further contact with or knowledge of their families (because that would be an emotional attachment), made some fans view them as brainwashed ChildSoldiers. This policy was unfortunately validated by the fact that Anakin, allowed into the Order as a special case, ''did'' actually go bad because of his emotional ties. Likewise, Kylo Ren, Ren (Ben Solo), Han and Leia's son, turned to the Dark Side at least partly because of conflict with his parents and their subsequent decision to pawn him off on Luke Skywalker in the hopes of corrective discipline.discipline. In reality, we might expect a lot of problems with people raised with no attachment by the Order though (what child's not going to want a family, or if denied their birth one, not just latch onto those around them anyway?) For one, babies raised without affection have been shown to have severe emotional problems, and the same is true of older children. While the Jedi aren't ''completely'' cold toward each other, it's doubtful what we've seen would be enough for children. A real group like this would probably raise them to view others as brothers or sisters, with their masters as surrogate parents. That would be a lot of attachment however.



** Doing what's right comes at a cost. In the worst case, you die for it (Compare ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire''). That doen't mean it's wrong to do so, but you must be aware of the cost.
** Alternatively: No matter how clever and brave you are, if you are caught in a shooting, and don't have skills useful against attackers, you [[RunOrDie run or hide ASAP]] - trying to play a hero will get you uselessly killed.

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** Doing what's right comes at a cost. In the worst case, you die for it (Compare (compare ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire''). That doen't doesn't mean it's wrong to do so, but you must be aware of the cost.
** Alternatively: No no matter how clever and brave you are, if you are caught in a shooting, and don't have skills useful against attackers, you [[RunOrDie run or hide ASAP]] - trying to play a hero will get you uselessly killed.
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* ''Film/TheDevilsAdvocate'' argues that lawyers should not competently defend guilty clients; that's literally ''the Devil's work''. Lawyers should only defend the innocent.

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* ''Film/TheDevilsAdvocate'' argues that lawyers should not competently defend guilty clients; that's literally ''the Devil's work''. Lawyers should only defend the innocent.innocent (never mind that even their lawyer doesn't always know that-most don't even want to).



* The ''Film/GodsNotDead'' series: So, basically, not being a Christian makes you retroactively "evil", while being a Christian gives you the right to belittle/discriminate Non-Christians?

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* The ''Film/GodsNotDead'' series: So, so, basically, not being a Christian makes you retroactively "evil", while being a Christian gives you the right to belittle/discriminate Non-Christians? against non-Christians?



* In the third ''{{Film/Halloweentown}}'' movie, [[HollywoodGeek Dylan]] (a [[HalfHumanHybrid half-human]] [[WitchSpecies warlock]] who DoesNotLikeMagic) [[PairTheSmartOnes bonds with a girl named Natalie]], only to have a minor freak-out when he discovers that her real form is a [[AllTrollsAreDifferent furry pink-skinned troll]]. Naturally she's offended and points out that from her perspective, [[HumansAreUgly he's pretty weird-looking himself]]. They eventually make up and are going to kiss at the end of the movie...only to agree that they're BetterAsFriends, because they each find the other too gross. Despite the general theme against FantasticRacism in these movies, the point seems to be that physical attraction ''is'' an important component in a romantic relationship.

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* In the third ''{{Film/Halloweentown}}'' movie, [[HollywoodGeek Dylan]] (a [[HalfHumanHybrid half-human]] [[WitchSpecies warlock]] who DoesNotLikeMagic) [[PairTheSmartOnes bonds with a girl named Natalie]], only to have a minor freak-out when he discovers that her real form is a [[AllTrollsAreDifferent furry pink-skinned troll]]. Naturally she's offended and points out that from her perspective, [[HumansAreUgly he's pretty weird-looking himself]]. They eventually make up and are going to kiss at the end of the movie...only to agree that they're BetterAsFriends, because they each find the other too gross. Despite the general theme against FantasticRacism in these movies, the point seems to be that physical attraction ''is'' an important component in a romantic relationship.relationship (with most, that's true, unhappy though such an aesop may be).
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* ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' shows Hermione creating a society to protest the servitude of the House Elves, as they are essentially slaves. However, the end result is that the elves ''like'' to work and most view payment as an insult. This could also be a more traditional aesop of "Don't project your own values and morality on cultures that operate quite differently."

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* ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' shows Hermione creating a society to protest the servitude of the House Elves, as they are essentially slaves. However, the end result is that the elves ''like'' to work and most view payment as an insult. This could also was ''meant'' to be a more traditional aesop of "Don't project your own values and morality on cultures that operate quite differently." differently", something Rowling had seen with well-intentioned but misguided activists who tried to "rescue" people from things [[ValuesDissonance they actually liked]], but it comes off this way due to having a slave race [[HappinessInSlavery who likes it]] (within limits-they don't really like abuse). Given that many real slaves have in the past been portrayed this way, it comes off as very wrong for many.
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* ''Film/{{College|1927}}'': Academic success is for nerds and to win girls you have to be a jock.
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* ''Film/AngerManagement'': At the end of the film, [[spoiler:it's revealed that Dave's girlfriend Linda had set up his entire fiasco involving Dave getting put up with psychological torture which involves getting framed for public assaults and constantly getting gaslighted by his counselor, just to make him stop being such a pushover. So the film pretty much states that [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale it's okay to put a man's life through living hell as long as he finally learns to become more self-assertive at the end.]]]]
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* ''VideoGame/PapoAndYo'' has an intentional one, as the game is a thinly-veiled metaphor [[spoiler: for the author's relationship with his alcoholic, abusive father]].
-->'''Caballero''': I heard these beautiful words from [my] therapist: "When someone wants to hit bottom, there's nothing you can do to stop them." When someone is self-destructive or destructive of others and you want to stop them, there's nothing you can do. They're looking for something there. They're getting something out of that destruction, and if you stay with them, you're gonna get destroyed. So the only thing you can do is let them go, and it is the most painful thing you can do in your life.
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* Music/MarilynManson dedicated three [[ConceptAlbum concept albums]] to the same one, that humanity doesn’t deserve to be saved, “they only deserve to be entertained before they’re all destroyed.” Two of the three are about saviors that absolutely fail in their goal, and all three are connected in a story told backwards. The chronologically first attempts to save people from a tyrannical society that worships violence and entertainment. Instead, the establishment absorbs him into it and uses him as another tool to keep people under control, selling mindless anthems of rebellion to the dissidents in order to entertain them and keep them from ever actually rebelling against them. He is DrivenToSuicide by this. The second chronologically is about the tool used to replace him, a new musician and band selling the same types of mindless anthems of rebellion extolling the virtues of drug abuse and partying to the people. Rather than breaking free of this, he chooses to just pursue love for his own happiness, never even considering the idea of trying to save everyone. He gets the happiest ending in the album. The third protagonist (whom may be the son of the first, the albums are never transparent with everything) actually succeeds... only for them to be [[UngratefulBastard ungrateful bastards]] that drive him insane with their constant demands and worship. In his madness, he ends up becoming the Antichrist and destroying the entire universe. Ultimately, the moral is just as Manson said in that quote. Humanity doesn’t deserve to be saved because they’re greedy, ungrateful, all consuming and see their heroes as their property to demand from. Of course, the albums are all semi-autobiographical, based on his feelings towards his own fame, how he was treated by his label and how he felt. Very tellingly, after four albums about social issues, society and major political footballs like abortion and school shootings, the next album opens with a song about how since nobody cares about the message anyways, just about the entertainment, he’s here to entertain (even ending on the lyric “so let us entertain you”, and that album mostly is centered around drug abuse and sex.
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* Objectivist novels such as Creator/AynRand's ''Literature/AtlasShrugged'' teach that altruism is evil. People need to learn to stand on their own two feet, so helping them up will only make them weaker and more dependent on you. It also teaches that the successful elite will be attacked by the untalented masses out of jealousy. Also, that nature is ugly and billboards improve it. Also, Ayn Rand (if the Fountainhead is any guide) prefers ugly concrete monstrosities to Greek and Roman architecture.

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* Objectivist novels such as Creator/AynRand's ''Literature/AtlasShrugged'' teach that altruism is evil. People need to learn to stand on their own two feet, so helping them up will only make them weaker and more dependent on you. It also teaches that the successful elite will be attacked by the untalented masses out of jealousy. Also, that nature is ugly and billboards improve it. Also, Ayn Rand (if the Fountainhead is any guide) prefers ugly concrete monstrosities to Greek and Roman architecture.
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This isn't the aesop. It's the premise.


* The message of ''Film/{{Idiocracy}}'' on the future of entire society becoming morons became less of a social commentary and more mean-spirited once it blames poor people for their own misfortunes and low IQ on their lack of intellect rather than the constraints and failures of society, which also include lack of access to education which sadly further [[ViciousCycle perpetuate the cycle along with the said notion]].
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Remember not to trope your own writing.


* The ''Film/GodsNotDead'' series: So, basically, not being a Christian makes you retroactively "evil", while being a Christian gives you the right to belittle/discriminate Non-Christians? [[FlatWhat What]].

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* The ''Film/GodsNotDead'' series: So, basically, not being a Christian makes you retroactively "evil", while being a Christian gives you the right to belittle/discriminate Non-Christians? [[FlatWhat What]].
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*** Though, the above example does have at least one mitigating factor. After Brother Bear gives Sister Bear lessons in self-defense, he reminds her emphatically that the first tactic is to simply avoid Tuffy, in accordance with what their parents decided would be best. Sister does manage this for two days before she intervenes because of Tuffy being cruel again[[note]]Granted, it was for throwing stones at a bird, but it's the thought that counts[[/note]]. And even then, she only hits back when the Bully tries attacking her first. So a more charitable interpretation of it is, "it pays to know how to defend yourself so people don't just hurt you without consequences."

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*** Though, the above example does have at least one mitigating factor. After Brother Bear gives Sister Bear lessons in self-defense, he reminds her emphatically that the first tactic is to simply avoid Tuffy, in accordance with what their parents decided would be best. Sister does manage this for two days before she intervenes because of Tuffy being cruel again[[note]]Granted, it was for throwing stones at a bird, but it's the thought that counts[[/note]]. And even then, she only hits back when the Bully tries attacking her first. So a more charitable interpretation of it is, "it pays to know how to defend yourself so people don't just hurt you or others without consequences."

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*** And similarly in ''Too Much Teasing''. How do you deal with teasing? Easy - get a kid to humiliate them in public.

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*** Though, the above example does have at least one mitigating factor. After Brother Bear gives Sister Bear lessons in self-defense, he reminds her emphatically that the first tactic is to simply avoid Tuffy, in accordance with what their parents decided would be best. Sister does manage this for two days before she intervenes because of Tuffy being cruel again[[note]]Granted, it was for throwing stones at a bird, but it's the thought that counts[[/note]]. And similarly even then, she only hits back when the Bully tries attacking her first. So a more charitable interpretation of it is, "it pays to know how to defend yourself so people don't just hurt you without consequences."
*** Similarly
in ''Too Much Teasing''. How do you deal with teasing? Easy - get a kid to humiliate them in public.
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* In ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of Android 16's pep talk to Gohan before he goes Super Saiyan 2, it goes from an understanding speech about how it's not wrong to fight for what you love, to 16 viciously ripping Gohan apart for acting like [[ItsAllAboutMe he's the only one of the cast who suffers]], and for [[ToBeLawfulOrGood rigidly sticking to his pacifist principles instead of doing the right thing.]]

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* In ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of Android 16's pep talk to Gohan before he goes Super Saiyan 2, it goes from an understanding speech about how it's not wrong to fight for what you love, to 16 [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech viciously ripping Gohan apart apart]] for acting like [[ItsAllAboutMe he's the only one of the cast who suffers]], and for [[ToBeLawfulOrGood rigidly sticking to his pacifist principles instead of doing the right thing.]]
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* In ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of Android 16's pep talk to Gohan before he goes Super Saiyan 2, it goes from an understanding speech about how it's not wrong to fight for what you love, to 16 viciously ripping Gohan apart for acting like [[ItsAllAboutMe he's the only one of the cast who suffers]], and for [[ToBeLawfulOrToBeGood rigidly sticking to his pacifist principles instead of doing the right thing.]]
--> '''Android16''': Cell was right, you think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns. You were a coward to your last whimper.

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* In ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of Android 16's pep talk to Gohan before he goes Super Saiyan 2, it goes from an understanding speech about how it's not wrong to fight for what you love, to 16 viciously ripping Gohan apart for acting like [[ItsAllAboutMe he's the only one of the cast who suffers]], and for [[ToBeLawfulOrToBeGood [[ToBeLawfulOrGood rigidly sticking to his pacifist principles instead of doing the right thing.]]
--> '''Android16''': '''Android 16''': Cell was right, you think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns. You were a coward to your last whimper.
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* In ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of Android 16's pep talk to Gohan before he goes Super Saiyan 2, it goes from an understanding speech about how it's not wrong to fight for what you love, to 16 viciously ripping Gohan apart for acting like [[ItsAllAboutMe he's the only one of the cast who suffers]], and for [[ToBeLawfulOrToBeGood rigidly sticking to his pacifist principles instead of doing the right thing.]]
--> '''Android16''': Cell was right, you think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns. You were a coward to your last whimper.
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* ''LightNovel/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'' teaches that sometimes the lesser of two evils is the right thing to do, and that good things done half-assedly can cause serious harm. Three of the Four Heroes go about performing good deeds throughout Melromarc, but because they don't stop to consider or mitigate the resulting consequences, said good deeds snowball into utter disaster as soon as they're gone, leaving Naofumi to clean up the mess by being more thorough and putting more thought into his actions. Naofumi is also a slave owner, but because he treats his demi slaves well and because Melromarc is such a racist hellhole towards demis they're actually safer and better off than they'd be free because they're under Naofumi's physical and legal protection. Contrast with Motoyasu, who wants to free Naofumi's slaves by force even though he'd be putting them at risk, simply for the short-term gratification of feeling like a hero.

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* ''LightNovel/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'' teaches that sometimes the lesser of two evils is the right thing to do, and that good things deeds done half-assedly can cause serious harm. Three of the Four Heroes go about performing good deeds throughout Melromarc, but because they don't stop to consider or mitigate the resulting consequences, said good deeds snowball into utter disaster as soon as they're gone, leaving Naofumi to clean up the mess by being more thorough and putting more thought into his actions. Naofumi is also a slave owner, but because he treats his demi slaves well and because Melromarc is such a racist hellhole towards demis they're actually safer and better off than they'd be free because they're under Naofumi's physical and legal protection. Contrast with Motoyasu, who wants to free Naofumi's slaves by force even though he'd be putting them at risk, simply for the short-term gratification of feeling like a hero.
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* ''LightNovel/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'' teaches that sometimes the lesser of two evils is the right thing to do, and that good things done half-assedly can cause serious harm. Three of the Four Heroes go about performing good deeds throughout Melromarc, but because they don't stop to consider or mitigate the resulting consequences, said good deeds snowball into utter disaster as soon as they're gone, leaving Naofumi to clean up the mess by being more thorough and putting more thought into his actions. Naofumi is also a slave owner, but because he treats his demi slaves well and because Melromarc is such a racist hellhole towards demis they're actually safer and better off than they'd be free because they're under Naofumi's physical and legal protection. Contrast with Motoyasu, who wants to free Naofumi's slaves by force even though he'd be putting them at risk, simply for the short-term gratification of feeling like a hero.
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* The aesop of ''Film/{{Shazam}}'' is "Your real family is the people who care about you," which is family-friendly, but early in the movie, a social worker adds a blunt addendum: If someone's not making an effort to be part of your life, give up on them and move on (even if it's the mother that you love). Sometimes, there is no compromising. There are no misunderstandings that can be cleared up. Sometimes you might not even get closure.

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* The aesop of ''Film/{{Shazam}}'' ''Film/Shazam2019'' is "Your real family is the people who care about you," which is family-friendly, but early in the movie, a social worker adds a blunt addendum: If someone's not making an effort to be part of your life, give up on them and move on (even if it's the mother that you love). Sometimes, there is no compromising. There are no misunderstandings that can be cleared up. Sometimes you might not even get closure.
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* ''Film/TheParentTrap'': It's completely unrealistic to try to make two people who are obviously unfit for each other get back together again. In real life, making two people who aren't right for each other marry again might only cause pain to both them and the child(ren), as it most likely causes constant arguments that may leave a lot of emotional turmoil on the child constantly having to watch a loveless marriage. The film tried to show an idealized situation instead of showing the healthy way to deal with a divorce. It's worse when you consider that Hailey's father never even told her about her ''mother and twin sister'', not letting Annie have the benefits of dual citizenship.

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* ''Film/TheParentTrap'': ''Film/{{The Parent Trap|1998}}'': It's completely unrealistic to try to make two people who are obviously unfit for each other get back together again. In real life, making two people who aren't right for each other marry again might only cause pain to both them and the child(ren), as it most likely causes constant arguments that may leave a lot of emotional turmoil on the child constantly having to watch a loveless marriage. The film tried to show an idealized situation instead of showing the healthy way to deal with a divorce. It's worse when you consider that Hailey's father never even told her about her ''mother and twin sister'', not letting Annie have the benefits of dual citizenship.
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Fix


* One of the major Aesops in ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'' (besides the obvious [[CaptainObviousAesop "racism is bad"]] one) is about knowing when the quit, and that sticking to your beliefs isn't always a good thing. Lloyd and the BigBad act as basically a {{Deconstruction}} of the {{Determinator}} trope, with Lloyd eventually learning that he needs to change his outlook on the world and becoming a better person as a result, while the BigBad stubbornly refuses to change to the bitter end, even when [[spoiler: his own sister, who he was enacting his schemes for to begin with]] tells him that what he's doing is wrong and he needs to stop.

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* One of the major Aesops in ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'' (besides the obvious [[CaptainObviousAesop "racism is bad"]] one) is about knowing when the to quit, and that sticking to your beliefs isn't always a good thing. Lloyd and the BigBad act as basically a {{Deconstruction}} of the {{Determinator}} trope, with Lloyd eventually learning that he needs to change his outlook on the world and becoming a better person as a result, while the BigBad stubbornly refuses to change to the bitter end, even when [[spoiler: his own sister, who he was enacting his schemes for to begin with]] tells him that what he's doing is wrong and he needs to stop.
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** Another aesop is that when the oppressed rise up against their oppressors, they [[FullCircleRevolution risk becoming oppressors themselves.]]
** ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphoniaDawnOfTheNewWorld'' expounds on Regal's refutation of [[spoiler: Mithos' plan to eliminate all racism by making everyone the same]] by having the human citizens of both Sylvarant and Te'thealla quickly develop a deep-seated hatred of each other, showing that bigotry will always exist in some form or another - it doesn't have to just be about race.
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* ''Film/RamboIV'': Sometimes ViolenceReallyIsTheAnswer.

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* ''Film/RamboIV'': Sometimes ViolenceReallyIsTheAnswer. Naive pacifistic missionaries try to go into Burma and help stem the violence, after being detained Rambo brought in a group of mercenaries and had to massacre dozens of enemy soldiers in order to retrieve them.



** In the prequels, it is revealed that Jedi are not supposed to form long-term relationships, and especially not marry, as such emotional ties could lead to TheDarkSide by way of LoveMakesYouEvil. When this caused a ''lot'' of upset in fans (and [[Franchise/StarWarsLegends Expanded Universe]] writers) with visions of the Jedi Knights as romantic heroes, George Lucas pulled a FlipFlopOfGod to clarify that the Jedi didn't have to actually be CelibateHero types -- they could have casual sexual affairs. But obviously that one was an even harder Aesop to explain to the kids.

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** In the prequels, it is revealed that Jedi are not supposed to form long-term relationships, and especially not marry, as such emotional ties could lead to TheDarkSide by way of LoveMakesYouEvil. When this caused a ''lot'' of upset in fans (and [[Franchise/StarWarsLegends Expanded Universe]] writers) with visions of the Jedi Knights as romantic heroes, George Lucas pulled a FlipFlopOfGod to clarify that the Jedi didn't have to actually be CelibateHero types -- they could have casual sexual affairs.affairs but their commitment to the Order had to be their priority (comparable to those in law enforcement or military, you don't get out of responsibilities because of a childs birthday). But obviously that one was an even harder Aesop to explain to the kids.

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