History Main / FairPlayWhoDunnit

17th Oct '17 8:56:08 PM bwburke94
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* In the ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' games, since the focus is entirely on the clues and how they fit together, it is occasionally entirely possible to figure out who the killer is before TheReveal. This is, of course, when the mystery isn't already a ReverseWhodunnit, or CluelessMystery. The hard part, of course, is proving it.
** It gets ridiculous in the last case of ''[[VisualNovel/AceAttorneyInvestigationsMilesEdgeworth Ace Attorney Investigations]]''. Edgeworth figures out the culprit easily, but proving exactly what happened and how it was done is such a laborious process that you're given a save point in the middle of the interrogation.
** The final case of ''Trials and Tribulations'' does break rule 2, but by that point the player is already familiar with the supernatural power in question and its efficacy.


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* In the ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' games, since the focus is entirely on the clues and how they fit together, it is occasionally entirely possible to figure out who the killer is before TheReveal. This is, of course, when the mystery isn't already a ReverseWhodunnit, or CluelessMystery. The hard part, of course, is proving it.
** It gets ridiculous in the last case of ''[[VisualNovel/AceAttorneyInvestigationsMilesEdgeworth Ace Attorney Investigations]]''. Edgeworth figures out the culprit easily, but proving exactly what happened and how it was done is such a laborious process that you're given a save point in the middle of the interrogation.
** The final case of ''Trials and Tribulations'' does break rule 2, but by that point the player is already familiar with the supernatural power in question and its efficacy. It also plays hard and fast with rule 10 - while the player is told upfront that [[spoiler:Iris and Dahlia]] look alike, and can easily figure out that they're twins, the latter character is dead so a TwinSwitch should have been impossible.
3rd Oct '17 2:10:25 PM infernape612
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** Rule 8 is broken by [[spoiler: Sigma revealing information that he shouldn't yet know, confusing other characters and having the timelines you go down have moments of Sigma sporadically pulling information from timelines the player most likely hasn't gone down yet. However, the player never once knows more then Sigma. In fact, in many occasions, it's the OTHER WAY AROUND. The game also makes you play down a timeline that Sigma has pulled information from first, before you can see the moment in the other timeline where Sigma states the info' he pulled [this is achieved by using "path blocks" that cuts the scene whenever Sigma is about to say something the player shouldn't yet know].]]

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** Rule 8 is broken by [[spoiler: Sigma revealing information that he shouldn't yet know, confusing other characters and having the timelines you go down have moments of Sigma sporadically pulling information from timelines the player most likely hasn't gone down yet. However, the player Sigma never once knows more then Sigma.than the player. In fact, in many occasions, it's the OTHER WAY AROUND. The game also makes you play down a timeline that Sigma has pulled information from first, before you can see the moment in the other timeline where Sigma states the info' info he pulled [this is achieved by using "path blocks" that cuts the scene whenever Sigma is about to say something the player shouldn't yet know].]]
26th Sep '17 9:04:17 PM infernape612
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** In ''VisualNovel/NewDanganRonpaV3'', the first case brutally breaks [[spoiler:rule 7. PlayerCharacter Kaede did it, and you switch to controlling the {{Deuteragonist}} Shuichi up to that point once you figure it out. You even get to recount several scenes linking apparently innocuous things Kaede did that link her to the crime.]]
21st Sep '17 1:29:43 AM Kalmbach
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# [[ScaryMinoritySuspect No Chinaman must figure in the story.]][[note]]This was not a case of racism, despite the ValuesDissonance of the now-offensive but generally obsolete term "Chinaman". This was in fact an admonition ''against'' something they considered both racist and cliché even then: the YellowPeril villains, {{Magical Asian}}s, and {{Inscrutable Oriental}} characters prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would be a {{Qurac}} terrorist or a ScaryBlackMan. Even then, the TokenMinority was automatically either the guy who did it, or played for the rest of the story as a RedHerring.[[/note]]

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# [[ScaryMinoritySuspect No Chinaman must figure in the story.]][[note]]This was not a case of racism, despite the ValuesDissonance of the now-offensive but generally obsolete term "Chinaman". This was in fact an admonition ''against'' something they considered both racist and cliché even then: the YellowPeril villains, {{Magical Asian}}s, and {{Inscrutable Oriental}} characters prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time.time, most notably Literature/FuManchu. The modern American equivalent would be a {{Qurac}} terrorist or a ScaryBlackMan. Even then, the TokenMinority was automatically either the guy who did it, or played for the rest of the story as a RedHerring.[[/note]]
17th Sep '17 4:09:06 PM shokoshu
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* The ultimate early fair whodunnit might be the German novel "Aljechin's Gambit" by Gerhard Josten, about the still mysterious death of World Chess Champion Aljechin. You probably automatically assume that Aljechin's Gambit refers to a chess opening invented by him. [[spoiler: But (somewhat astonishingly) there is no chess opening with this name. No, it's [[FakingTheDead ''Aljechin's'']] Gambit! The ''title'' already gives it away if you have eyes to look!]]
16th Sep '17 9:22:04 AM Specialist290
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* When Robert van Gulik wrote his novels starring Literature/JudgeDee, he deliberately incorporated many of Knox's principles into them (except the Chinaman rule--[[ImperialChina for obvious reasons]]). In particular, he had to struggle with the second commandment, as the supernatural elements are omnipresent in traditional Chinese detective fiction (e.g. it's not uncommon for the victim's ghost to appear to the detective ten pages in and give a detailed account of their own murder), due to the genre's cultural purpose being to teach the reader a moral lesson, rather than to challenge their puzzle-solving skills. In fact, the very first novel ''Celebrated Cases Of Judge Dee'' (not part of later continuity) was Gulik's only translation from a Chinese original, which attracted his attention primarily because it ''lacked'' any supernatural elements relevant to the mystery plot.

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* When Robert van Gulik wrote his novels starring Literature/JudgeDee, he deliberately incorporated many of Knox's principles into them (except the Chinaman rule--[[ImperialChina rule, [[ImperialChina for obvious reasons]]).reasons]]--though he still follows the spirit of the rule, in that all of the perpetrators are ordinary people and not diabolical supervillains). In particular, he had to struggle with the second commandment, as the supernatural elements are omnipresent in traditional Chinese detective fiction (e.g. it's not uncommon for the victim's ghost to appear to the detective ten pages in and give a detailed account of their own murder), due to the genre's cultural purpose being to teach the reader a moral lesson, rather than to challenge their puzzle-solving skills. In fact, the very first novel ''Celebrated Cases Of Judge Dee'' (not part of later continuity) was Gulik's only translation from a Chinese original, which attracted his attention primarily because it ''lacked'' any supernatural elements relevant to the mystery plot.
23rd Aug '17 8:49:25 PM PenBFDI
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***The game's updated Rule 5 (No one with extra-sensory perception or similar powers may appear) is also technically not broken; none of the time travel abilities are described as ESP, and while Clover does have some abilities, they are never once relevant.
23rd Aug '17 12:19:30 PM trulymadmoves
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** The episode "Rarity Investigates!" plays the trope far more straight when Rarity, well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin investigates]] a crime Rainbow Dash is accused of committing. Every clue is shown to the audience as Rarity finds them, even when there aren't any lines calling attention to them until the end:

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** The episode "Rarity Investigates!" plays the trope far more straight when Rarity, well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin investigates]] a crime Rainbow Dash is accused of committing. Every clue is shown to the audience as Rarity finds them, even when there aren't any lines calling attention to them until the end:
end.
* The mystery portion of ''WesternAnimation/{{Hoodwinked}}'' is designed with the intention of little kids being able to feel triumphant for figuring out who the villain is. The character appears in all four stories during the film's RashomonStyle first two acts; the third story, in which he turns up completely unexpectedly at the scene of a crime and drops a few lines of dialogue that hint at his motivation, is the point at which most viewers, both child and adult, figure it out, with his largely throwaway recurrence in the fourth story being there just to confirm suspicions.
5th Aug '17 1:49:53 PM TheNicestGuy
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* ''VideoGame/LANoire'' largely obeys this, which can come as a surprise if you thought it was just a ''Grand Theft Auto'' clone.
7th Jul '17 1:00:34 AM infernape612
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# No [[AppliedPhlebotinum hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance]] which will need [[{{Technobabble}} a long scientific explanation at the end]]. [[note]]Like the supernatural rule, this is somewhat relaxed in the modern interpretation, but again the Phlebotinum must be [[ChekhovsClassroom introduced and clearly explained beforehand]].[[/note]]

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# No [[AppliedPhlebotinum hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance]] which will need [[{{Technobabble}} a long scientific explanation at the end]]. [[note]]Like the supernatural rule, this is somewhat relaxed in the modern interpretation, but again the Phlebotinum must be [[ChekhovsClassroom introduced and clearly explained beforehand]].[[/note]]
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