History Main / ElvesVersusDwarves

17th Jan '17 12:12:23 PM Monsund
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** There is a bit of this trope in ''Cataclysm'', with the dwarven Explorer's League coming to blows with the elven Reliquary.

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** There is a bit of this trope in ''Cataclysm'', with the dwarven Explorer's League coming to blows with the elven Reliquary.Reliquary, course they are on opposite factions so its to be expected.
** Early on the rivalry between the Jungle Trolls and the Forsaken was played up, particularly in the [[AllThereInTheManual manual]]. However later it got [[AbortedArc dropped]] without much explanation.
26th Dec '16 5:12:03 PM LentilSandEater
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Tolkien's ''The Lord of the Rings'' is also likely the source for this trope. Tolkien set many standards which have made their way into modern fantasy, especially after being further popularized by other pop culture phenomenon such as ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''. Prior to Tolkien's work elves and dwarves were not usually seen as being distinctly separate kinds of beings in most mythology. Often they were synonymous with other fey creatures who inhabited either the woods or the water or mountains. Tolkien created different categories for these beings and made them more humanoid than they were previously in mythology.
** Codifier for modern use and supplier of the actual terms "dwarf" and "elf", yes, but not source of the trope in general. Tolkien pulled the "tall, slender fae who hang around doing their own thing" vs "short, muscular fae that build stuff, mine, and interact with humanity to sell their awesome stuff" cultural rivalry pretty much straight out of Norse Mythology, specifically the Eddas, and corresponding Celtic and Germanic lore. It's older than steel, probably.
** Even in Middle-Earth the Elves and the Dwarves got along fairly well at times despite not always really understanding each other. Eregion and Khazad-dûm come to mind; the gate between them allowing entrance to the Dwarven kingdom opened to the word "friend" spoken in ''Elvish''. It was apparently intended as primarily symbolic (or to keep out weather and animals), not as an actual obstacle.

to:

Tolkien's ''The Lord of the Rings'' is also likely the source for this trope. Tolkien set many standards which have made their way into modern fantasy, especially after being further popularized by other pop culture phenomenon such as ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''. Prior to Tolkien's work elves and dwarves were not usually seen as being distinctly separate kinds of beings in most mythology. Often they were synonymous with other fey creatures who inhabited either the woods or the water or mountains. Tolkien created different categories for these beings and made them more humanoid than they were previously in mythology.
** Codifier for modern use and supplier of the actual terms "dwarf" and "elf", yes, but not source of the trope in general. Tolkien pulled the "tall, slender fae who hang around doing their own thing" vs "short, muscular fae that build stuff, mine, and interact with humanity to sell their awesome stuff" cultural rivalry pretty much straight out of Norse Mythology, specifically the Eddas, and corresponding Celtic and Germanic lore. It's older than steel, probably.
**
mythology.\\
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Even in Middle-Earth the Elves and the Dwarves got along fairly well at times despite not always really understanding each other. Eregion and Khazad-dûm come to mind; the gate between them allowing entrance to the Dwarven kingdom opened to the word "friend" spoken in ''Elvish''. It was apparently intended as primarily symbolic (or to keep out weather and animals), not as an actual obstacle.
26th Dec '16 5:08:31 PM LentilSandEater
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** [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] with Zevran and Oghren in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins''. At worst, they're VitriolicBestBuds. ''Awakening'' has this a bit, with Oghren and Sigrun pranking around uptight Dalish elf Velanna.

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** [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] with Zevran and Oghren in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins''. At worst, they're VitriolicBestBuds. ''Awakening'' has this a bit, with Oghren and Sigrun pranking around uptight Dalish elf Velanna.
26th Dec '16 9:57:53 AM Gosicrystal
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* In ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'', Dwarves and Elves don't particularly understand each other, but they aren't enemies...[[spoiler: except that this misunderstanding was exploited by the Dark Elves, who got the Dwarves to banish one of their own clans for the humans' destruction of an "elven" forest.]] Culminates in a rather interesting ([[LostForever which has several opportunities to never be seen]]) conversation between Loghaire Thunder Stone (king of the dwarves) and Z'an Al'urin (a TrueNeutral Dark Elf), which humbles Loghaire but-quick.

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* In ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'', Dwarves and Elves don't particularly understand each other, but they aren't enemies...[[spoiler: except [[spoiler:except that this misunderstanding was exploited by the Dark Elves, who got the Dwarves to banish one of their own clans for the humans' destruction of an "elven" forest.]] Culminates in a rather interesting ([[LostForever ([[PermanentlyMissableContent which has several opportunities to never be seen]]) conversation between Loghaire Thunder Stone (king of the dwarves) and Z'an Al'urin (a TrueNeutral Dark Elf), which humbles Loghaire but-quick.
20th Dec '16 12:22:28 AM LBHills
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* Elves are often portrayed as being masters of diplomacy, debate, rhetoric, PurpleProse, small talk and ''[[CantArgueWithElves doubletalk]]''. Dwarves are typically as straightforward as the grille of an oncoming semi.
* Elves dress fancily, sing elaborate songs, write poetic literature in flowing script, and are the embodiment of beauty and style. Dwarves are often unkempt, sport long [[BadassBeard beards]] and hair, and dress in either simple leather, undyed wool--or steel--and write prose in runes, carved into the rock.

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* Elves are often portrayed as being masters of diplomacy, debate, rhetoric, PurpleProse, small talk and ''[[CantArgueWithElves doubletalk]]''. Dwarves are typically as generally prefer straightforward as the grille of an oncoming semi.
opinions and blunt facts, and aren't overly concerned when somebody's feelings get hurt.
* Elves dress fancily, sing elaborate songs, write poetic literature in flowing script, and are the embodiment of strive (or, in some cases, don't ''have'' to strive) to epitomize beauty and style. Dwarves are often unkempt, sport long [[BadassBeard beards]] and hair, and dress in either simple leather, undyed wool--or steel--and write prose prose. Usually in sticklike runes, carved into the rock.
13th Dec '16 11:02:11 PM Kuruni
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* In ''TheMonsterGirlEncyclopedia'', it was FantasticRacism in era of previous demon lords. Elves consider humans, dwarves and any monsters to be lowly creatures and loathe to make contact with them, so they rarely get far from their HiddenElfVillage. Dwarves feel insulted by this attitude and hate them back. Today, when many of elves and dwarves are [[HornyDevils succubi]], they still tend to snipe at each other and fight over men. For some reason, succubi elves and dwarves usually target same men. Fortunatly, their "fighting" consists mostly of...[[AThreesomeIsHot snuggling up against the man, pinching him between them]].

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* In ''TheMonsterGirlEncyclopedia'', ''Monster Girl Encyclopedia'', it was FantasticRacism in era of previous demon lords.overlords. Elves consider humans, dwarves and any monsters to be lowly creatures and loathe to make contact with them, so they rarely get far from their HiddenElfVillage. Dwarves feel insulted by this attitude and hate them back. Today, when many of elves and dwarves are [[HornyDevils succubi]], they still tend to snipe at each other and fight over men. For some reason, succubi elves and dwarves usually target same men. Fortunatly, their "fighting" consists mostly of...[[AThreesomeIsHot snuggling up against the man, pinching him between them]].
13th Dec '16 10:01:12 PM Yukianesa
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* In ''Literature/{{Dwarves}}'' by German author Markus Heitz, the dwarves really hate the elves for seemingly annihilating the fifthling kingdom before the main storyline, but the elves never actually had a part in the genocide - the culprits were the elves' AlwaysChaoticEvil counterparts, the alfs, and the elves oppose the forces of the Perished Land as much as the dwarves do. It ends up all for naught by the third volume when a hothead dwarf declares himself High King and launches a genocidal war against the elves which ends with ''37'' elves left in the entire world. Nice going, you stunted jerks.
7th Dec '16 7:46:15 PM WillBGood
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** Apparently played straight as of the Advanced Race Guide, which includes character options for both elves and dwarves which divide up their favored enemy bonuses between the standard orcs...and each other, thanks to the usual ancient grudge. [[ArsonMurderAndJawyalking And according to the "Ask Merisiel" thread, the Iconic Rogue, Merisiel Sillvari, finds Lem's jokes about dwarves]] ''hilarious''.

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** Apparently played straight as of the Advanced Race Guide, which includes character options for both elves and dwarves which divide up their favored enemy bonuses between the standard orcs...and each other, thanks to the usual ancient grudge. [[ArsonMurderAndJawyalking And according to the "Ask Merisiel" thread, the Iconic Rogue, Merisiel Sillvari, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking finds Lem's jokes about dwarves]] ''hilarious''.
7th Dec '16 7:43:43 PM WillBGood
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* Although they hadn't come to blows in a long time, Elves and Dwarves had a lot of distrust towards each other in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''. It originated mostly from an ancient war between the dwarven city Nogrod and the elven kingdom Doriath which destroyed both nations; and also from a general severing of ties between all the races that made them much more isolated and thus suspicious of each other. For example, when the Elves first encountered the Petty-Dwarves, a smaller subspecies of Dwarves, they hunted them almost to extinction before they realised they were sentient. CharacterDevelopment subverts this in the case of the elven Legolas and the dwarven Gimli, who both come to understand each other better and become {{Friendly Rival}}s, then HeterosexualLifePartners.\\

to:

* Although they hadn't come to blows in a long time, Elves and Dwarves had a lot of distrust towards each other in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''. It originated mostly from an ancient war between the dwarven city Nogrod and the elven kingdom Doriath which destroyed both nations; and also from a general severing of ties between all the races that made them much more isolated and thus suspicious of each other. For example, when the Elves first encountered the Petty-Dwarves, a smaller subspecies of Dwarves, they hunted them almost to extinction before they realised they were sentient.sapient. CharacterDevelopment subverts this in the case of the elven Legolas and the dwarven Gimli, who both come to understand each other better and become {{Friendly Rival}}s, then HeterosexualLifePartners.\\
1st Dec '16 9:59:17 AM BlackSunNocturne
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Added DiffLines:

* This trope was consciously averted in ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}''. Elves actually are really good neighbors with Dwarfs in this setting due to both being fairly isolationist. According to one sourcebook this is because "good fences make good neighbors". Lead designer James Jacobs explained that it's because ElvesVsDwarves is a prominent trope in ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms'', and Paizo wanted to avoid comparisons between the two settings.
** Apparently played straight as of the Advanced Race Guide, which includes character options for both elves and dwarves which divide up their favored enemy bonuses between the standard orcs...and each other, thanks to the usual ancient grudge. [[ArsonMurderAndJawyalking And according to the "Ask Merisiel" thread, the Iconic Rogue, Merisiel Sillvari, finds Lem's jokes about dwarves]] ''hilarious''.
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