History Main / EasyLogistics

28th Apr '16 7:57:58 PM awnman
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** Sherman himself dispatched "And let it be known that if a farmer wishes to burn his cotton, his house, his family, and himself, he may do so. But not his corn. We want that."
18th Apr '16 7:21:41 PM redandready45
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[[folder:Film]]
* Defied in ''Film/NicholasAndAlexandra''. Supplying soldiers across the vast Russian Empire is a monumental challenge, as Grand Duke Nicholas frustratingly explains.
--> '''Grand Duke Nicholas''': Well Nicky, let me put it this way. (Presents a bullet) This is a bullet, munitioned in Saint Petersburg. I send it off to war. How does it get there? On a single spur of railroad track four thousand miles long. And in the middle, no track at all. God help us, it sends three days packed on sleds. This works the same way for every pair of boots, first aid kit, or pound of tea we send. Get out now, Nicky. While there is time.
[[/folder]]
13th Apr '16 6:17:39 AM Morgenthaler
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* Much is also put upon the wormhole near Deep Space Nine, as it's the fastest route to Dominion space and the Federation regaining control of the station cuts off Dominion supply lines of troops and ships. Even more emphasis in the war is put upon the Dominion's sheer ability to manufacture ships.

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* ** Much is also put upon the wormhole near Deep Space Nine, as it's the fastest route to Dominion space and the Federation regaining control of the station cuts off Dominion supply lines of troops and ships. Even more emphasis in the war is put upon the Dominion's sheer ability to manufacture ships.
7th Apr '16 10:36:59 PM AceOfScarabs
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** ''VideoGame/XCOM2'' has even easier logistics than before, as you can now pay a flat amount of resources to immediately upgrade all weapons and armor of a specific tier immediately. Modular Weapons Attachments in use are even inherited by the operative's new weapons.

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** ''VideoGame/XCOM2'' has even easier logistics than before, as you can now pay a flat amount of resources to immediately upgrade all weapons and armor of a specific tier immediately.tier. Modular Weapons Attachments in use are even inherited by the operative's new weapons.
7th Apr '16 10:20:37 PM AceOfScarabs
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** ''VideoGame/XCOM2'' has even easier logistics than before, as you can now pay a flat amount of resources to immediately upgrade all weapons and armor of a specific tier immediately. Modular Weapons Attachments in use are even inherited by the operative's new weapons.
7th Apr '16 10:08:13 PM AceOfScarabs
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Usually seen along with EasyCommunication and CommandAndConquerEconomy. Contrast WizardNeedsFoodBadly and ResourcesManagementGameplay. A subtrope is AutomatonHorses, which addresses the ease of keeping horses fed, watered and healthy in fiction.

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Usually seen along with EasyCommunication and CommandAndConquerEconomy. Contrast WizardNeedsFoodBadly and ResourcesManagementGameplay. A subtrope is AutomatonHorses, which addresses the ease of keeping horses fed, watered and healthy in fiction. Another major component of this trope is a GlobalCurrency, because it eliminates the need to calculate exchange rates and manage additional kinds of resources based off that.
22nd Mar '16 8:22:54 AM Thranx
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*** Wellington could see very clearly how important civilian attitudes were because the French Army was being torn apart by Spanish guerrilleros at the time. British funds not only kept the guerrilleros from attacking the British but also enabled them to hurt the French more.
11th Mar '16 2:58:29 AM Morgenthaler
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*** To be fair, some of it can be justified by the fact that the United States is shorthanded on the home front since the majority of its armed forces are committed to operations in Europe, where the bulk of the fighting takes place before the Soviet invasion.
*** Also idle unit chatter from the Americans do say that something terrible happened to the naval forces in the Mediterranean.



*** This is despite the fact that when those transports deliver your units they can be seen to be firing off countermeasure flares as if they were targetable by anti-air units. It becomes more jarring when all of the attack helicopters in an area are blown out of the sky by missiles but the lone, unarmed transport helo dropping off a jeep never even gets shot at.
*** Whoever wrote the part in the intro about repair units clearly had World in Conflict in mind. The repair vehicles in this game can rapidly repair any ground or air vehicle in close proximity, or use their special ability to instantly restore a chunk of hitpoints to the target, as if they were paladins running around the battlefield wielding repair magic.



* In ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianDawn'', Nod receives vehicles flown in by transport from off the map. These transports never have to contend with GDI anti-air fire.
** That's because Nod buys their vehicles from merchants. GDI wouldn't shoot down neutral merchants.
*** Indeed at the time Nod was considered to be a multi-national corporation and quasi-terrorist organisation, not a world power and were still technically civilians, so even firing upon their non-militarized installations could have had repercussions, let alone shooting down merchant aircraft that didn't even belong to Nod. This is all gone by ''Tiberian Sun'', however, where the Tiberium contamination prettymuch re-drew national borders, allowing Nod to actually become a world power.

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* In ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianDawn'', Nod receives vehicles flown in by transport from off the map. These transports never have to contend with GDI anti-air fire.
** That's because Nod buys their vehicles from merchants. GDI wouldn't shoot down neutral merchants.
*** Indeed at the time Nod was considered to be a multi-national corporation and quasi-terrorist organisation, not a world power and were still technically civilians, so even firing upon their non-militarized installations could have had repercussions, let alone shooting down merchant aircraft that didn't even belong to Nod. This is all gone by ''Tiberian Sun'', however, where the Tiberium contamination prettymuch re-drew national borders, allowing Nod to actually become a world power.
''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer'':



*** However, in any game that featured Paratroopers, it is possible to shoot down the plane carrying them, destroying the reinforcements you would have gotten. Granted, the Paratroopers are free and they are just basic rifleman, so it's no big loss.



*** However, the USA's alternate supply source suffers from a disadvantage as it calls in cargo planes to aidrop supplies. It is very possible to shoot down said planes before they can reach the supply drop.



** You do get laser and other energy weapons later on which don't require ammo, but using them alone isn't enough to win the game.
*** Regarding winning the game using only energy weapons, this is possible in the TheMoonProject skirmish: UCS AA plasmaguns + normal plasmaguns + shadowed units + radar, in small groups of units (guerilla-style) = massive destruction.
*** The supply problems weren't so bad, unless you were sloppy enough to not look at the locations where your supply units go though. If you can't manage your supplies right (and it's easy!), you deserve to lose.
*** In regards to realism however, commonsense would dictate that a player would build forward depots and firebases to allow for territory control, like what real militaries do when they want to avoid supply line issues. In the sequel, ''The Moon Project'', supply choppers will usually focus on the more valuable units or the ones which ran out first, they avoid and circumvent air defences of a certain size or larger, but a cunning player will just build a staggered grid of rocket towers widely spaced out thus ignoring this rule.
** On top of this, units react differently depending on the terrain, weather conditions, and ambient temperature. Especially the last is important in the game, as units get more susceptible to damage as the temperature rises.



** Its predecessor ''TotalAnnihilation'' required the (raygun-based) weapons of all units to consume energy from your main resource pool in order to fire, how said energy GOT to your forces is another question.
*** Considering that both games take place in a future where technology can easily convert mass into energy and back again into mass, this can be attributed to the magic of technology. Naval units could easily carry small energy reactors that can take care of every function it needs, same to ground units, while Airships would probably be too heavy if they carried such.
**** In TA, pretty much every single unit produces some quantity of energy, usually very small. At least some of them use energy when they MOVE, though frequently only as much as they produce. the Aircraft Carriers(a floating pair of aircraft repair pads with no weapons) are actually stated to have an onboard nuclear reactor and produce a fairly large amount of energy. So much so that you could in theory use them in lieu of power plants. They're somewhat harder to defend though, unless you take advantage of an interesting little trick with Air Repair Pads. Normally the all-VTOL aircraft have to lift straight up to altitude, extend their folded wings, and build up forward speed. When using an air repair pad however, they land with their wings extended and stay that way, and can take off forward instantly; accelerating very rapidly to near maximum velocity. It does, however, require an absurd amount of micromanagement to get even a small number of planes to all land on the pads.

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** * Its predecessor ''TotalAnnihilation'' ''VideoGame/TotalAnnihilation'' required the (raygun-based) weapons of all units to consume energy from your main resource pool in order to fire, how said energy GOT to your forces is another question.
*** Considering that both games take place in a future where technology can easily convert mass into energy and back again into mass, this can be attributed to the magic of technology. Naval units could easily carry small energy reactors that can take care of every function it needs, same to ground units, while Airships would probably be too heavy if they carried such.
**** In TA, pretty much every single unit produces some quantity of energy, usually very small. At least some of them use energy when they MOVE, though frequently only as much as they produce. the Aircraft Carriers(a floating pair of aircraft repair pads with no weapons) are actually stated to have an onboard nuclear reactor and produce a fairly large amount of energy. So much so that you could in theory use them in lieu of power plants. They're somewhat harder to defend though, unless you take advantage of an interesting little trick with Air Repair Pads. Normally the all-VTOL aircraft have to lift straight up to altitude, extend their folded wings, and build up forward speed. When using an air repair pad however, they land with their wings extended and stay that way, and can take off forward instantly; accelerating very rapidly to near maximum velocity. It does, however, require an absurd amount of micromanagement to get even a small number of planes to all land on the pads.
question.



** Someone on Website/SomethingAwful noticed that the entire lore more or less doesn't mention the logistics very much, and thus a spoof interview [[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/warhammer-chaos-birdhouse.php?page=1 Blue Stripe 40,000]] was created.
*** Creator/DanAbnett's ''Literature/GauntsGhosts'' novel ''Traitor General'' does deal somewhat with the issues of logistics in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', showing a Chaos-occupied world which is being systematically stripped of its resources, to the point where the Chaos forces are using a dameonic warp-portal entity to literally drink up the entire world's oceans and transport them to other worlds needing the water.
**** Earlier, in the GauntsGhosts novel ''The Guns of Tanith'', the Ghosts were hit with a severe lack of power cells, owning to the wrong size being sent; later, in ''Only In Death'', the need for water and ammunition drives much of the plot.
** Also averted somewhat in Soulstorm, where if a province is surrounded on all sides by the enemy, its supply lines are cut & it cannot be reinforced until one of the adjoining provinces is captured.
*** It also prevents the player from receiving the planetary requisition granted by that province every turn.
7th Feb '16 7:43:29 PM Khathi
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* Half of Rommel's troubles in Africa during WorldWarII came from the fact logistics weren't easy for him (as the Italian merchant ships had to run the gauntlet of minefields and British ships and airplanes, the latter of which often ''knew'' where they would pass, while carrying insufficient supplies, and both the Italians and his Afrika Korps had too little trucks and carriages to bring them to the front) but, proportionally speaking, they ''were'' for the Eighth Army (as the Royal Navy was that much better defending the merchant ships, the merchant ships were always full with useful stuff coming from either Britain or America, and the American supplies included enough trucks to bring the stuff to the front). The other half came from him ''squandering'' his reserves of fuel and spare parts and sometimes neglecting to salvage damaged but repairable tanks from the battlefield and demolishing the British ones, thus making the logistic situation even worse.
* In general it could be said that the Germans had never really understood logistics: the Germany being a compact and densely populated European country, the logistics kinda ''was'' easy for them most of the time (see below the UsefulNotes/ThirtyYearsWar for an example), so they never had the need to ''feel'' it on a subconscious level, concentration more on the tactical side of warfare. The Allies, on the other hand, included ''four largest'' countries in the world (the Brits still kinda had their empire back then), and, moreover, linked by the various mutual supply agreements, which ''forced'' them to devote themselves to the matters of supply in earnest. It's often said that while Stalin never really understood warfare, he understood ''logistics'', up to personally allocating the scarce resources during the hardest month of 1941, and the Americans [[AwesomenessByAnalysis had to develop a whole scientific method]] to supply their forces through the Pacific war. This had led to Germans in the [=20th=] century often winning battles, but inevitably losing ''wars'' in the long run.
* The UsefulNotes/ThirtyYearsWar. All the participants' armies were a) mainly composed of mercenaries and paid professional troops and b) were living off the land and the spoils of war. This made for some ''very'' EasyLogistics indeed, which is the sole reason the war that bankrupted 17th century Europe was able to continue for as long as it did. Most campaigns were based around rivers as these were used to transport food to troops. The concept was called ''Bellum se ipsum alet'' - "the war will feed itself". It was also the reason why this war devastated the Europe so much all those lootings simply didn't leave anything to the civilians, and the level of shooty-killy spirit among all the sides meant that the Pope for some time allowed the poligamy in the Catholic parts of Germany simply to repopulate the land.



* The UsefulNotes/ThirtyYearsWar. All the participants' armies were a) mainly composed of mercenaries and paid professional troops and b) were living off the land and the spoils of war. This made for some ''very'' EasyLogistics indeed, which is the sole reason the war that bankrupted 17th century Europe was able to continue for as long as it did. Most campaigns were based around rivers as these were used to transport food to troops. The concept was called ''Bellum se ipsum alet'' - "the war will feed itself". It was also the reason why this war devastated the Europe so much all those lootings simply didn't leave anything to the civilians, and the level of shooty-killy spirit among all the sides meant that the Pope for some time allowed the poligamy in the Catholic parts of Germany simply to repopulate the land.



* Half of Rommel's troubles in Africa during WorldWarII came from the fact logistics weren't easy for him (as the Italian merchant ships had to run the gauntlet of minefields and British ships and airplanes, the latter of which often ''knew'' where they would pass, while carrying insufficient supplies, and both the Italians and his Afrika Korps had too little trucks and carriages to bring them to the front) but, proportionally speaking, they ''were'' for the Eighth Army (as the Royal Navy was that much better defending the merchant ships, the merchant ships were always full with useful stuff coming from either Britain or America, and the American supplies included enough trucks to bring the stuff to the front). The other half came from him ''squandering'' his reserves of fuel and spare parts and sometimes neglecting to salvage damaged but repairable tanks from the battlefield and demolishing the British ones, thus making the logistic situation even worse.
7th Feb '16 7:26:45 PM Khathi
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## (Unstated assumption): The USSR will be unable to produce new military formations, weapons, and equipment to replace the losses they take.[[note]] This was untrue, with Soviet production of armaments in the latter half of 1941 exceeding German even when they were in the middle of transferring about half of all their manufacturing capacity to Sovet Asia. [[/note]]

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## (Unstated assumption): The USSR will be unable to produce new military formations, weapons, and equipment to replace the losses they take.[[note]] This was untrue, with Soviet production of armaments in the latter half of 1941 exceeding exceeded German even when they were in the middle of transferring about half of all their manufacturing capacity to Sovet Asia. And this doesn't even include the ''insane'' amount of materiel the Soviet Union received from the US through the Lend-Lease program: for example, more than two-thirds of the Soviet trucks and locomotives in WWII were American-built. Note that the US industrial capacity was roughly equal to the all other combatants ''combined''.[[/note]]



*** c.2000 working trucks of more than 111 types[[note]] The Soviets, for contrast, used ''two models of truck''. These were both incorporated into the 18th Panzer Division and the ''Heer'' in general [[/note]]

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*** c.2000 working trucks of more than 111 types[[note]] The Soviets, for contrast, used ''two models of truck''.truck'' (not counting the American ones, of which there were ''three''). These were both incorporated into the 18th Panzer Division and the ''Heer'' in general [[/note]]
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