Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Main / DontShootTheMessage

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It's now Flame Bait.


* ''Series/ICarly'': "[[Recap/ICarlyS02Ep13IMeetFred iMeet Fred]]": It's very possible this episode was meant to be a satire of fandom culture, taking the idea of [[HePannedItNowHeSucks somebody being flamed for not liking something popular]] and greatly exaggerating it. However, many felt, even if this ''was'' the intended message, that the treatment Freddie gets for simply stating he didn't find Fred amusing was far more mean-spirited than it was funny, not helped by Fred's divisive status in real life (compared to the [[CharacterShilling nearly godlike portrayal]] he gets in the episode) making many [[UnintentionallySympathetic sympathize with Freddie all the more]].

to:

* ''Series/ICarly'': "[[Recap/ICarlyS02Ep13IMeetFred iMeet Fred]]": It's very possible this episode was meant to be a satire of fandom culture, taking the idea of [[HePannedItNowHeSucks somebody being flamed for not liking something popular]] popular and greatly exaggerating it. However, many felt, even if this ''was'' the intended message, that the treatment Freddie gets for simply stating he didn't find Fred amusing was far more mean-spirited than it was funny, not helped by Fred's divisive status in real life (compared to the [[CharacterShilling nearly godlike portrayal]] he gets in the episode) making many [[UnintentionallySympathetic sympathize with Freddie all the more]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In Creator/AlexGarland's ''{{Film/Men}}'', the patriarchy's existance and enforcement both by powerful institutions (the police, organized religion, etc.), and by the average man are strongly criticized. However, a common criticism of the movie is that, while the message in question it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face, it doesn't really say more than this or add a new perspective to the conversation.

to:

* In Creator/AlexGarland's ''{{Film/Men}}'', the * ''{{Film/Men}}'': The patriarchy's existance and enforcement both by powerful institutions (the police, organized religion, etc.), and by the average man are strongly criticized. However, a common criticism of the movie is that, while the message in question it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face, it doesn't really say more than this or add a new perspective to the conversation.



* In ME!ME!ME! by Japanese DJ and producer Music/{{Teddyloid}} with lyrics provided by Music/{{Daoko}}, the Otaku culture, the toxic Anime obsession and the self-alienation because of the former ones, are harshly condemned. But, the absurdly amount of gratuitous nudity and violence present in the music video distracted many viewers from the message.

to:

* In ME!ME!ME! by Japanese DJ and producer Music/{{Teddyloid}} with lyrics provided by Music/{{Daoko}}, (feat. Music/{{Daoko}}): "ME!ME!ME!" harshly condemns the Otaku culture, the toxic Anime obsession and the self-alienation because of the former ones, are harshly condemned.ones. But, the absurdly amount of gratuitous nudity and violence present in the music video distracted many viewers from the message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''Film/TheDayAfterTomorrow'':
** While real-life climatologists were glad to see the subject of climate change and global warming getting attention from Hollywood, they've expressed concern that the film's inaccurate and heavily sensationalized depiction of climate change might desensitize audiences to the reality of the issue.
** This is especially troubling to a number of environmentalists as even serious discussions of climate change often go off the deep end in descriptions (claims of the poles melting overnight, our children never seeing snow) when the reality is that it will consist of single-digit changes in global average temperature with increased risk of extreme weather (such as the 2019 polar vortex in North America and the preceding years' of extreme heat in America, along with low-lying islands being severely threatened by rising sea levels)... but nowhere even remotely near as extreme of Fridge Logical depictions in the film.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In Creator/AlexGarland's ''{{Film/Men}}'', the patriarchy's existance and enforcement both by powerful institutions (the police, organized religion, etc.), and by the average man are strongly criticized. However, a common criticism of the movie is that, while the message in question it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face, it doesn't really say more than this or add a new perspective to the conversation.


Added DiffLines:

* In ME!ME!ME! by Japanese DJ and producer Music/{{Teddyloid}} with lyrics provided by Music/{{Daoko}}, the Otaku culture, the toxic Anime obsession and the self-alienation because of the former ones, are harshly condemned. But, the absurdly amount of gratuitous nudity and violence present in the music video distracted many viewers from the message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Film/{{Threads}}'': Although the film was generally well-received by critics, it also had its share of detractors who took great pains to note that they understood the anti-war message Hines was pushing but found the extremely bleak tone to undermine the effectiveness of the message and make the film an unpleasant slog. As with most movies like this, the question has been raised of whether it's worth using such trauma-inducing or otherwise disturbing material without any meaningful catharsis at the end.

to:

* ''Film/{{Threads}}'': Although the film was generally well-received by critics, it also had its share of detractors who took great pains to note that they understood the anti-war message director Barry Hines was pushing but found the extremely bleak tone to undermine the effectiveness of the message and make the film an unpleasant slog. As with most movies like this, the question has been raised of whether it's worth using such trauma-inducing or otherwise disturbing material without any meaningful catharsis at the end.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, [[TitleDrop Don't Shoot the Message]] is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that, while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery enough that they still find the work intolerable. Quite often, this is because they consider the message's delivery to be [[{{Anvilicious}} about as subtle as an anvil to the face]] in a way that drags the whole work down. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]]. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias the proverbial choir that is being preached to]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think a work is outright terrible to qualify; you merely have to dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.

to:

Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, [[TitleDrop Don't Shoot the Message]] is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that, while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery enough that they still find the work intolerable. Quite often, this is because they consider the message's delivery to be [[{{Anvilicious}} about as subtle as an anvil to the face]] in a way that drags the whole work down. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or oversimplified]], laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]].straw]], or PanderingToTheBase. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias the proverbial choir that is being preached to]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think a work is outright terrible to qualify; you merely have to dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Needs to explain the problems with the message that meant even those who agree with if felt hurt it.


* ''ComicBook/TheBoys'': Although the comic is remembered more as a lengthy series of insults towards Creator/MarvelComics, Creator/DCComics, and the fanbase of both those franchises. The central theme of the comic is that humans are simply too flawed and undisciplined to be given superpowers. The situations found in comic book settings are best left in the hands of people who are ''actually'' trained to resolve these situations, not random vigilantes with no military training or experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/TheBoys'': Although the comic is remembered more as a lengthy series of insults towards Creator/MarvelComics, Creator/DCComics, and the fanbase of both those franchises. The central theme of the comic is that humans are simply too flawed and undisciplined to be given superpowers. The situations found in comic book settings are best left in the hands of people who are ''actually'' trained to resolve these situations, not random vigilantes with no military training or experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''[[https://www.wattpad.com/story/112467278-%F0%9F%92%94easliy-broken%F0%9F%92%94 Easily Broken]]'', based on ''WesternAnimation/TheLoudHouse'', had messages about family and friendship being beautiful and important. Most of the readers fully agreed with these messages, but ended up hating the fanfic for its bad spelling and grammar, use of the FandomSpecificPlot of Lincoln [[TheRunaway running away]], the plot holes (such as it being uncertain whether it took place before or after Ronnie Anne moved away) and the family being portrayed in an inconsistent, and often uncharacteristically mean, way.

to:

* ''[[https://www.wattpad.com/story/112467278-%F0%9F%92%94easliy-broken%F0%9F%92%94 Easily Broken]]'', based on ''WesternAnimation/TheLoudHouse'', had messages about family and friendship being beautiful and important. Most of the readers fully agreed with these messages, but ended up hating the fanfic for its bad spelling and grammar, use of the done-to-death FandomSpecificPlot of Lincoln [[TheRunaway running away]], the plot holes (such as it being uncertain whether it took place before or after Ronnie Anne moved away) and the family being portrayed in an inconsistent, and often uncharacteristically mean, way.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Brian actually did try to apologize to the mob but the mob refused to let him apologize as they kept interrupting him and being rude to him in the apology until he got frustrated at the mob for their behavior and snapped.


** "[[Recap/FamilyGuyS16E6TheDInApartment23 The D in Apartment 23]]": A problem many had with the episode is that, during Brian's [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech rant]] while ShamingTheMob, he made a very ''valid'' call out on internet culture and Website/{{Twitter}}, it's just the episode itself fails to execute it in a meaningful way. People ''can'' be quick to freak out over a tweet and [[MistakenForRacist call someone a racist]] or "cancel" them rather than focus on more legitimate issues, while acting like a single tweet defines a person's moral character. Except whereas real cases of this have the tweet be spawned from ''[[InnocentBigot ignorance]]'', not racism, Brian ''knew'' his tweet was racist but posted it anyway. Then he figured people just can't take a joke when it was reacted to negatively. Also most of the vitriol comes from ''online'', not in reality like an actual lynch mob. And of course, real life cases have the person who made the tweet at least ''apologize'', something Brian refuses to do until the end, where he instead snaps at the mob while invoking NeverMyFault.

to:

** "[[Recap/FamilyGuyS16E6TheDInApartment23 The D in Apartment 23]]": A problem many had with the episode is that, during Brian's [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech rant]] while ShamingTheMob, he made a very ''valid'' call out on internet culture and Website/{{Twitter}}, it's just the episode itself fails to execute it in a meaningful way. People ''can'' be quick to freak out over a tweet and [[MistakenForRacist call someone a racist]] or "cancel" them rather than focus on more legitimate issues, while acting like a single tweet defines a person's moral character. Except whereas real cases of this have the tweet be spawned from ''[[InnocentBigot ignorance]]'', not racism, Brian ''knew'' his tweet was racist but posted it anyway. Then he figured people just can't take a joke when it was reacted to negatively. Also most of the vitriol comes from ''online'', not in reality like an actual lynch mob. And of course, real life cases have the person who made the tweet at least ''apologize'', something Brian refuses to do until the end, where he instead snaps at the mob while invoking NeverMyFault.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** While "[[Recap/TheLoudHouseS2E8NoSuchLuckFrogWild No Such Luck]]" brings up a valid moral against lying and how it isn't a healthy way to solve a conflict, it isn't saved from how everyone (including the parents) picked up the IdiotBall and Lincoln was [[DisproportionateRetribution overly punished for it]], while ignoring the implications of the family's actions.

to:

** While "[[Recap/TheLoudHouseS2E8NoSuchLuckFrogWild No Such Luck]]" brings up a valid moral against lying and how it isn't a healthy way to solve a conflict, it isn't saved from how everyone (including the parents) picked up the IdiotBall and Lincoln was [[DisproportionateRetribution overly punished for it]], while ignoring the implications of the family's actions. What is also baffling about the execution of the moral was how the lie was not Lincoln's to begin with as his sister, Lynn Loud Jr was the one spreading the lies about Lincoln in a tantrum she threw over losing a baseball game that Lincoln attended, yet she was [[KarmaHoudini never punished for it]].

Added: 447

Removed: 447

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* ''[[https://theloudhousefanon.fandom.com/wiki/A_Disgraced_Athlete A Disgraced Athlete]]'' (based on ''WesternAnimation/TheLoudHouse'') was meant to be a negative criticism on the episode "No Such Luck". However, most of its readers, even those who hated "No Such Luck", ended up hating the fanfic even more, due to [[AdaptationalVillainy Lynn's portrayal as a monster]] who [[BadPeopleAbuseAnimals kills cats]] and tries to kill her own brother.



* ''[[https://theloudhousefanon.fandom.com/wiki/A_Disgraced_Athlete A Disgraced Athlete]]'' (based on ''WesternAnimation/TheLoudHouse'') was meant to be a negative criticism on the episode "No Such Luck". However, most of its readers, even those who hated "No Such Luck", ended up hating the fanfic even more, due to [[AdaptationalVillainy Lynn's portrayal as a monster]] who [[BadPeopleAbuseAnimals kills cats]] and tries to kill her own brother.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Film/{{Enough}}'': Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.

to:

* ''Film/{{Enough}}'': Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and then giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that the entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the in their marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* "Film/{{Enough}}": Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.

to:

* "Film/{{Enough}}": ''Film/{{Enough}}'': Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Film/{{Enough}}: Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.

to:

* Film/{{Enough}}: "Film/{{Enough}}": Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* "Film/{{Enough}}: Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.

to:

* "Film/{{Enough}}: Film/{{Enough}}: Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* "Film/{{Enough}}: Most would agree that a woman would have a moral right to claim self-defense to premeditated murder to protect herself and her child from her abusive husband, especially if the husband has enough connections to track down her every move, and can therefore set her up to be defenseless, and unable to get any help from the law. However, the movie undermines this message by totally overdoing the female empowerment/good wife vs. evil husband aspect, such as justifying her breaking into his house and setting him up to be completely defenseless, and giving him a taste of his own medicine before finishing the deed, and happily living ever after (when she had cut the phone line) with no inquiries from the police. There's also the fact that entire movie takes place from her perspective and we don't get any insight to how the marriage went or her husband's abusive nature. As such, the film seems more like about the fantasy of an abused woman getting revenge against her male partner, as opposed to a story of self-defense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s)

Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/RatQueens'' was originally acclaimed for its mostly-female, ass-kicking cast, but its reputation never recovered from the scandal over the original artist, and co-creator, Roc Upchurch abusing his wife, and conflicting reports regarding writer/co-creator Kurtis Wiebe's level of knowledge of this, and willingness to continue working with him afterwards.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Film/{{Blonde}}'': Several critics and general viewers have noted that the film wants to criticize and deconstruct the abuse, excessive sexualization and exploitation Norma Jeane Mortensen (and numerous women like her) went through in Hollywood, which is certainly not a bad thing, but that the execution is flawed; it's been argued that beyond graphically depicting Norma Jeane suffering one occurrence of trauma and degradation after another, the film doesn't have much else to say on the subject (which also tends to reduce Norma Jeane herself to being a helpless victim), and at times even feels like it indulges in the same exploitation of Norma Jeane [[BrokenAesop it tries to condemn]].

to:

* ''Film/{{Blonde}}'': Several critics and general viewers have noted that the film wants to criticize and deconstruct the abuse, excessive sexualization and exploitation [[Creator/MarilynMonroe Norma Jeane Mortensen Mortensen]] (and numerous women like her) went through in Hollywood, which is certainly not a bad thing, but that the execution is flawed; it's been argued that beyond graphically depicting Norma Jeane suffering one occurrence of trauma and degradation after another, the film doesn't have much else to say on the subject (which also tends to reduce Norma Jeane herself to being a helpless victim), and at times even feels like it indulges in the same exploitation of Norma Jeane [[BrokenAesop it tries to condemn]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
more grammar


** Beyond the fact that ''BLACK SUN'' conveys its anti-racism message using [[{{Dehumanization}} literal animal men]], it also takes place in a setting where the practical solution to the issue is to stop new kaijins from being made, effectively putting an end to kaijins as a species. While this makes sense in universe since kaijins are for the most part humans who've been unwillingly turned into kaijins, its unable to coexist with the heavy-handed analogies ''BLACK SUN'' makes between kaijins and real life civil rights struggles.

to:

** Beyond the fact that ''BLACK SUN'' conveys its anti-racism message using [[{{Dehumanization}} literal animal men]], it also takes place in a setting where the practical solution to the issue is to stop new kaijins from being made, effectively putting an end to kaijins as a species. While this makes sense in universe since kaijins are for the most part humans who've been unwillingly turned into kaijins, its it's unable to coexist with the heavy-handed analogies ''BLACK SUN'' makes between kaijins and real life civil rights struggles.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
gramma


* ''Literature/NemesisSeries'': Some of the book's critics accused the writing of being too exaggerated with its "transphobia is bad" message, saying that the transphobic characters are so over the top that it comes across more as a WarOnStraw. Author April Daniels responded that a lot of what the transphobic characters say is [[RealityIsUnrealistic pretty much lifted wholesale from things said by real-life transphobes.]]

to:

* ''Literature/NemesisSeries'': Some of the book's books' critics accused the writing of being too exaggerated with its "transphobia is bad" message, saying that the transphobic characters are so over the top that it comes across more as a WarOnStraw. Author April Daniels responded that a lot of what the transphobic characters say is [[RealityIsUnrealistic pretty much lifted wholesale from things said by real-life transphobes.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing potholes to So Bad Its Horrible


Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, [[TitleDrop Don't Shoot the Message]] is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that, while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery enough that they still find the work intolerable. Quite often, this is because they consider the message's delivery to be [[{{Anvilicious}} about as subtle as an anvil to the face]] in a way that drags the whole work down. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]]. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias the proverbial choir that is being preached to]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think a work is DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible to qualify; you merely have to dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.

to:

Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, [[TitleDrop Don't Shoot the Message]] is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that, while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery enough that they still find the work intolerable. Quite often, this is because they consider the message's delivery to be [[{{Anvilicious}} about as subtle as an anvil to the face]] in a way that drags the whole work down. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]]. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias the proverbial choir that is being preached to]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think a work is DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible outright terrible to qualify; you merely have to dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.

Changed: 249

Removed: 2228

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Needs to explain why audiences wanted to like the message.


* ''Anime/SonicX'':
** One of Knuckles' flaws throughout the anime is him constantly being manipulated by his enemies and ending up being tricked by them (mostly Eggman) into doing their bidding and his friends always criticize him for that and tell him that he shouldn't let people manipulate him. But they've shown that they have no qualms about playing Knuckles like a fiddle either, such as when they goaded him into playing a baseball game that Eggman was hosting when he showed reluctance in participating, and when they duped him into distracting a Metarex with a beach ball that they told him was Secco's Planet Egg which offended Knuckles when he found out (though the latter is more downplayed in the dub where instead making it about the others teasing him like in the sub, they make it more into a sympathetic insight by Cosmo over Knuckles' forgiveness to a fault).
** Chris' parents, Nelson and Lindsay Thorndyke, are painted as [[ParentalNeglect neglectful parents]] and their main flaw was that they focused too much on work and never spent any time with Chris while he was growing up. In the episode where Chris catches a cold, both Nelson and Lindsay rush to check up on him and then Chuck harshly criticizes Nelson for setting a bad example by abandoning his work and checking up on his son over such a trivial issue. While it is an exaggeration on Chris' parents' part, the fact that their main problem was focusing too much on work and now they're being criticized for taking time off of work to see Chris is so very inconsistent.
** During the campfire scene in Episode 51, Sonic says “friendship is freedom”. Which is in itself a great message, except that he spent the entire episode allowing Chris to kidnap him and drag him far away while delaying his return back to his world.
** At the end of Episode 56, Knuckles finds out that his friends tricked him into distracting a Metarex and laments about it. In the original Japanese dub Cosmo tells Knuckles that it's better to be deceived than to deceive since you can't hurt anyone that way. While a message like that would already be perceived as condescending and ignorant, it's contradicted by Knuckles fighting Sonic earlier in the episode because Eggman tricked him again.

to:

* ''Anime/SonicX'':
** One of Knuckles' flaws throughout the anime is him constantly being manipulated by his enemies and ending up being tricked by them (mostly Eggman) into doing their bidding and his friends always criticize him for that and tell him that he shouldn't let people manipulate him. But they've shown that they have no qualms about playing Knuckles like a fiddle either, such as when they goaded him into playing a baseball game that Eggman was hosting when he showed reluctance in participating, and when they duped him into distracting a Metarex with a beach ball that they told him was Secco's Planet Egg which offended Knuckles when he found out (though the latter is more downplayed in the dub where instead making it about the others teasing him like in the sub, they make it more into a sympathetic insight by Cosmo over Knuckles' forgiveness to a fault).
** Chris' parents, Nelson and Lindsay Thorndyke, are painted as [[ParentalNeglect neglectful parents]] and their main flaw was that they focused too much on work and never spent any time with Chris while he was growing up. In the episode where Chris catches a cold, both Nelson and Lindsay rush to check up on him and then Chuck harshly criticizes Nelson for setting a bad example by abandoning his work and checking up on his son over such a trivial issue. While it is an exaggeration on Chris' parents' part, the fact that their main problem was focusing too much on work and now they're being criticized for taking time off of work to see Chris is so very inconsistent.
**
''Anime/SonicX'': During the campfire scene in Episode 51, Sonic says “friendship is freedom”. Which is in itself a great message, except that he spent the entire episode allowing Chris to kidnap him and drag him far away while delaying his return back to his world.
** At the end of Episode 56, Knuckles finds out that his friends tricked him into distracting a Metarex and laments about it. In the original Japanese dub Cosmo tells Knuckles that it's better to be deceived than to deceive since you can't hurt anyone that way. While a message like that would already be perceived as condescending and ignorant, it's contradicted by Knuckles fighting Sonic earlier in the episode because Eggman tricked him again.
world.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with the ''opposite'' of the work's position, not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition. This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Also contrast HardTruthAesop, when AnAesop is viewed as valid despite its unpleasantness due to its handling in the work. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other. If this occurs InUniverse, it's JerkassHasAPoint.

to:

One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with the ''opposite'' of the work's position, not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition. This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Also contrast HardTruthAesop, when AnAesop is viewed as valid despite its unpleasantness due to its handling in the work. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other. If this occurs InUniverse, it's JerkassHasAPoint. \n See also NotHelpingYourCase.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
About those who want to agree with the Aesop disliking the poor execution, not just disliking it. This sound like the opposite.


* ''Anime/YuGiOh'': Regardless of how one feels about the way Mai giving into Doma post-MindRape in the "Waking the Dragons" {{filler}} arc was handled, given how she seemed fine at the very end of Battle City, delayed PTSD is a very real thing.

Top