History Main / DontShootTheMessage

9th Oct '17 4:28:16 PM SkidTroper
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->"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with bad arguments."
-->--'''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche'''

to:

->"The most perfidious way of harming ->''If the enemy is an ass and a cause consists of defending fool and a prating coxcomb, is it deliberately with bad arguments."
-->--'''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche'''
meet, think you, that we should also, look you, be an ass and a fool and a prating coxcomb?''
-->--'''Fluellen''', ''Theatre/HenryV''
9th Oct '17 4:19:54 PM SkidTroper
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->''"There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view I hold dear."''
-->-- '''Daniel Dennett'''

to:

->''"There's nothing I like less than ->"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with bad arguments for a view I hold dear."''
-->-- '''Daniel Dennett'''
arguments."
-->--'''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche'''
21st Aug '17 3:45:22 PM CyberTiger88
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Worse yet is the {{Aesop}} the show attempts to give: The logic of its arguments is [[BrokenAesop faulty]], its world-view is unnuanced, the characters frequently [[CharacterFilibuster burst into boring monologues concerning what are almost certainly the author's opinions on the subject]], those who disagree with the opinion are [[WriterOnBoard dismissed unsatisfactorily]], and the general preachiness makes it a chore to get through.

to:

Worse yet is the {{Aesop}} the show attempts to give: The logic of its arguments is [[BrokenAesop faulty]], if not [[InsaneTrollLogic nonsensical]], its world-view is unnuanced, the characters frequently [[CharacterFilibuster burst into boring monologues monologues]] [[WriterOnBoard concerning what are almost certainly the author's opinions on the subject]], those who disagree with the opinion are [[WriterOnBoard [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong dismissed unsatisfactorily]], and the general preachiness makes it a chore to get through.
14th Jan '17 10:38:37 PM BlackboxUnboxing
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One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with something like the ''opposite'' of the work's position (though not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition). This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other. See also FallacyFallacy, when a perfectly valid argument gets wrongfully dismissed as being "wrong" just because it uses a fallacy.

to:

One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with something like the ''opposite'' of the work's position (though not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition). This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other. See also FallacyFallacy, when a perfectly valid cogent argument gets wrongfully dismissed as being "wrong" just because it uses a fallacy.
30th May '16 8:21:38 PM azul120
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An {{inverted trope}} of SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped, where a work is ''improved'' by the inclusion of some necessary moralizing.

to:

An {{inverted trope}} InvertedTrope of SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped, where a work is ''improved'' by the inclusion of some necessary moralizing.
9th May '16 4:16:18 PM Jeduthun
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Added DiffLines:

An {{inverted trope}} of SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped, where a work is ''improved'' by the inclusion of some necessary moralizing.
28th Apr '16 1:43:28 AM Trogdor
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Worse yet is the {{Aesop}} the show attempts to give: The logic of its arguments is faulty, its world-view is unnuanced, the characters frequently [[CharacterFilibuster burst into boring monologues concerning what are almost certainly the author's opinions on the subject]], those who disagree with the opinion are [[WriterOnBoard dismissed unsatisfactorily]], and the general preachiness makes it a chore to get through.

to:

Worse yet is the {{Aesop}} the show attempts to give: The logic of its arguments is faulty, [[BrokenAesop faulty]], its world-view is unnuanced, the characters frequently [[CharacterFilibuster burst into boring monologues concerning what are almost certainly the author's opinions on the subject]], those who disagree with the opinion are [[WriterOnBoard dismissed unsatisfactorily]], and the general preachiness makes it a chore to get through.
19th Apr '16 9:32:02 PM Premonition45
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One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with something like the ''opposite'' of the work's position (though not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition). This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other.

to:

One possible form this could take is a SpaceWhaleAesop. Contrast this with StrawmanHasAPoint, when one can't help but agree with something like the ''opposite'' of the work's position (though not so much because of one's prior beliefs as because the work did such a bad job of portraying the opposition). This could also lead to a LogicBomb if your reason for shooting the message is because of the messenger's hypocrisy. Compare StealthParody, which can differ from this trope only in creator intent, and due to PoesLaw may be confused for each other. \n See also FallacyFallacy, when a perfectly valid argument gets wrongfully dismissed as being "wrong" just because it uses a fallacy.



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to:

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15th Nov '15 11:42:41 PM maxwellsilver
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Such a position should not be seen as particularly incongruous, but it is often assumed that those who dislike a work ''necessarily'' disagree with its point of view. Many times, it is indeed the case: If an unpalatable bias is detected in a work, people will steer clear of it. However, the ''a priori'' assumption that this is the case is most certainly an invocation of LogicalFallicies -- for instance, hating a corny anti-drug PSA does not mean that one is a heroin addict.

The lines have been further blurred with the rise of entertainment specifically designed to appeal to various spots on political and social spectra, and not others... style mixes with substance to such an extent that a rejection of one is seen as a rejection of the other. To take several broad examples: Certainly there are conservatives who dislike Ann Coulter or GlennBeck, and liberals who dislike MichaelMoore or KeithOlbermann. There are fundamentalist Christians who can't stand the ''LeftBehind'' series or ''ComicBook/ChickTracts,'' and atheists who don't like having Sam Harris or Bill Maher as spokesmen. There is, of course, nothing objectively wrong with liking any of these things (yes... [[StrawmanPolitical even that one]]). However, the fact remains that those that like the politics, but not how it is presented, often feel the distinct need to mention the fact. This tends to pop up within Administrivia/{{natter}} upon this very wiki, as if the mere fact that someone has problems with the Roman Catholic Church lends more credence to his negative opinion about ''TheDaVinciCode''.

to:

Such a position should not be seen as particularly incongruous, but it is often assumed that those who dislike a work ''necessarily'' disagree with its point of view. Many times, it is indeed the case: If an unpalatable bias is detected in a work, people will steer clear of it. However, the ''a priori'' assumption that this is the case is most certainly an invocation of LogicalFallicies LogicalFallacies -- for instance, hating a corny anti-drug PSA does not mean that one is a heroin addict.

The lines have been further blurred with the rise of entertainment specifically designed to appeal to various spots on political and social spectra, and not others... style mixes with substance to such an extent that a rejection of one is seen as a rejection of the other. To take several broad examples: Certainly there are conservatives who dislike Ann Coulter or GlennBeck, UsefulNotes/GlennBeck, and liberals who dislike MichaelMoore Creator/MichaelMoore or KeithOlbermann. Creator/KeithOlbermann. There are fundamentalist Christians who can't stand the ''LeftBehind'' ''Film/LeftBehind'' series or ''ComicBook/ChickTracts,'' and atheists who don't like having Sam Harris or Bill Maher as spokesmen. There is, of course, nothing objectively wrong with liking any of these things (yes... [[StrawmanPolitical even that one]]). However, the fact remains that those that like the politics, but not how it is presented, often feel the distinct need to mention the fact. This tends to pop up within Administrivia/{{natter}} upon this very wiki, as if the mere fact that someone has problems with the Roman Catholic Church lends more credence to his negative opinion about ''TheDaVinciCode''.
''Literature/TheDaVinciCode''.
15th Nov '15 11:41:47 PM maxwellsilver
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Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, Don't Shoot The Message is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery (typically for being {{anvilicious}}) enough that it is still intolerable. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]]. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias people who agree with the message]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think something is DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible to qualify: Merely dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.

Such a position should not be seen as particularly incongruous, but it is often assumed that those who dislike a work ''necessarily'' disagree with its point of view. Many times, it is indeed the case: If an unpalatable bias is detected in a work, people will steer clear of it. However, the ''a priori'' assumption that this is the case is most certainly an invocation of YouFailLogicForever - for instance, hating a corny anti-drug PSA does not mean that one is a heroin addict.

to:

Related to the concept of the CluelessAesop, Don't Shoot The the Message is the phenomenon that results when viewers feel the need to explain that while they are in agreement with the message attempted by a work, they hate the delivery (typically for being {{anvilicious}}) enough that it is still intolerable. They might consider the messenger to be RightForTheWrongReasons, or the message to be too [[BlackAndWhiteMorality oversimplified]] or laden with [[TheWarOnStraw straw]]. The work is seen as preachy, even to [[ConfirmationBias people who agree with the message]]. The above description gives an extreme hypothetical, but you do not need to think something is DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible to qualify: Merely dislike it for any of a hundred reasons unrelated to its Aesop.

Such a position should not be seen as particularly incongruous, but it is often assumed that those who dislike a work ''necessarily'' disagree with its point of view. Many times, it is indeed the case: If an unpalatable bias is detected in a work, people will steer clear of it. However, the ''a priori'' assumption that this is the case is most certainly an invocation of YouFailLogicForever - LogicalFallicies -- for instance, hating a corny anti-drug PSA does not mean that one is a heroin addict.
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