History Main / DatedHistory

**** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyamaradu ('piyama' means 'gift' in Hittite, so he was probably Hittite, although we still don't know the meaning of 'radu'), and he was the main subject of the Tawagalawa letter. For 35 years he attacked Hittite vassals states (including Troy) causing trouble to not one but three kings, before it was seemingly turned over to Hittites. It's generally agreed he was being helped by Mycenaean Greeks, because whenever he was almost caught by Hittites, he would flee to his base in Millawanda (Miletus), which was controlled by the Greeks. What makes his story interesting, is the fact that it falls within the Trojan War chronology. It seems Achaeans were playing Hittites to establish complete control over Western Anatolia, where Troy is found and they were using a Hittite intern. It has been hypothesized he claimed inheritance over Wilusa, which is why he might have been interested in siding with the Greeks, but it's still dubious.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. Population movements were huge, they even wanted to settle in Egypt, --where they became known as Sea Peoples-- but the pharaoh, understanding the danger overpopulation would bring, stopped them. A group settled in Canaan though, known as Peleset/Philistines, from where we get the myth of David and Goliath. First it was rejected, but now scholars see the armor Goliath wore as ''plausible'' for the Mycenaean civilization. Note though, Mycenaeans and Mycenaean Greeks are not the same thing. Greeks were part of the Myceanean civilization, and became one of the few lucky survivors of the Bronze Age Collapse, but Mycenaeans were multicultural. The Egyptians recorded Greeks as Ekwesh (Achaean). What made them want to migrate is one of the biggest mysteries of history.

**** It's not the first time an Ancient Greek named is used for the ruler of Troy. There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaeans a.k.a Mycenaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter, where they mentioned they ''went to war for it''. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not Mycenaean Greeks. They resolved it with a political marriage. Tawagalawa is the Hittite form of Ancient Greek name Eteocles, or rather a more archaic form ''*Etewoklewes'' with 'w' falling from use over time ('ϝ' called 'digamma' is the Ancient Greek letter for 'w'). In the same way, Wilusa became Ilios. Tawagalawa was the brother of the King of the Achaeans.
**** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyamaradu ('piyama' means 'gift' in Hittite, so he was probably Hittite, although we still don't know the meaning of 'radu'), and he was the main subject of the Tawagalawa letter. For 35 years he attacked Hittite vassals states (including Troy) causing trouble to not one but three kings, before it was seemingly turned over to Hittites. It's generally agreed he was being helped by Mycenaean Greeks, because whenever he was almost caught by Hittites, he would flee to his base in Millawanda (Miletus), which was controlled by the Greeks. What makes his story interesting, is the fact that it falls within the Trojan War chronology. It seems Achaeans were playing Hittites to establish complete control over Western Anatolia, where Troy is found and they were using a Hittite intern. It has been hypothesized he claimed the throne of Wilusa, but not confirmed by historians.
** Archeology seems to suggest that there were ''several'' ancient cities standing in that place, often separated by periods of devastation, and that Troy of Homer was only one of them.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. Population movements were huge, they even wanted to settle in Egypt, --where they became known as Sea Peoples-- but the pharaoh, understanding the danger overpopulation would bring, stopped them. A group settled in Canaan though, known as Peleset/Philistines, from where we get the myth of David and Goliath. First it was rejected, but now scholars see the armor Goliath wore as ''plausible'' for the Mycenaean civilization. Note though, Mycenaeans and Mycenaean Greeks are not the same thing. Greeks were part of the Myceanean civilization, and became one of the few lucky surviors of the Bronze Age Collapse, but Mycenaeans were multiculural. The Egyptians recorded Greeks as Ekwesh (Achaean). What made them want to migrate is one of the biggest mysteries of history.
** While the possibilities the Trojans won are interesting, they're still hypotheses. We don't know for sure there was a Trojan war to begin with. We know there was a Troy though, also known as Ilios, in Hittite documents known as Wilusa. Wilusa was a vassal state of the Hittite Empire, that before the dates give for Trojan War was ruled by ''Mycenaean Greeks''. In fact, there are several unearthed documents where it seems like Trojans and Greeks were ''allies'' against Hittites.
*** The heroes of the Iliad might have not been kings at all. In Linear B, they seemed to be names of shepherds and other working class people.

**** It's not the first time an Ancient Greek named is used for the ruler of Troy. There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaeans a.k.a Mycenaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter, where they mentioned they ''went to war for it''. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not Mycenaean Greeks. They resolved it with a political marriage. Tawagalawan is the Hittite form of Ancient Greek name Eteocles, or rather a more archaic form ''*Etewoklewes'' with 'w' falling from use over time ('ϝ' called 'digamma' is the Ancient Greek letter for 'w'). In the same way, Wilusa became Ilios.
**** In the Assuwan Rebellion (a couple centuries before the supposed war) vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Ilios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice!'' Mycenaean Greeks seemed to have helped the rebellion. A sword was found that it's clearly of Mycenaean origin, and not regional and puts them on the same side as Trojans against the rest of Hittite Empire. So Trojans rose against the Hittite Empire, --of whom they were part of-- and were helped by Mycenaean Greeks.
**** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyama-Radu ('piyama' means 'gift' in Hittite, so he was probably Hittite). For 35 years he attacked Hittite vassals states (including Troy) causing trouble to not one but three kings, before it was seemingly turned over to Hittites. It's generally agreed he was being helped by Mycenaean Greeks, because whenever he was almost caught by Hittites, he would flee to his base in Millawanda (Miletus), which was controlled by the Greeks. His story is interesting as it falls within the Trojan War chronology. It seems Acheans were playing Hittites to establish complete control over Western Anatolia, where Troy is found.

** Troy was continued to be habitated for some centuries after the supposed war. Not so much according to the Iliad.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. They even wanted to settle in Egypt but the pharaoh, where they became known as Sea Peoples understanding the danger overpopulation would bring, stopped them. A group settled in Canaan though, known as Peleset/Philistines, from where we get the myth of David and Goliath. First it was rejected, but now scholars see the armor Goliath wore as ''plausible'' for the Mycenaean civilization. That said they were most likely multicultural, though Greeks might have been part of them, and recorded as Ekwesh. What made them want to migrate is one of the biggest mysteries of history.
** While the possibilities the Trojans won are interesting, they're still hypotheses. We don't know for sure there was a Trojan war to begin with. We know there was a Troy though, also known as Ilios, in Hittite documents known as Wilusa. Wilusa was a vassal state of the Hittite Empire, that before the dates give for Trojan War was ruled by ''Mycenaean Greeks''.
*** The heroes of the Iliad might have not been kings at all. In Linear B, they seemed to be names of shepherds and other working class people.
*** Paris was Greek. Or maybe he was a mix of two people? His name in Iliad was also Alexander and someone named Alaksandu ruled Wilusa.
**** It's not the first time an Ancient Greek named is used for the ruler of Troy. There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaeans a.k.a Mycenaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter, where they mentioned they ''went to war for it''. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not Mycenaean Greeks. They resolved it with a political marriage. Tawagalawan is the Hittite form of Ancient Greek name Eteocles, or rather a more archaic form *Etewoklewes with 'w' falling from use over time ('ϝ' called 'digamma' is the Ancient Greek letter for 'w'). In the same way, Wilusa became Ilios.
**** In the Assuwan Rebellion (a couple centuries before the supposed war) vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Ilios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice''! Mycenaean Greeks, whose only proof of involvement seems to be a sword found that it's clearly of Mycenaean origin, and not regional puts them on the same side as Trojans against the rest of Hittite Empire. So Trojans rose against the Hittite Empire, --of whom they were part of-- and were helped by Mycenaean Greeks.
**** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyama-Radu by the Hittites. And he was Greek. For 35 years he attacked Hittite vassals states (including Troy) causing trouble to not one but three kings, before it was seemingly turned over to Hittites. It's generally agreed he was being helped by Mycenaean Greeks, because whenever he was almost caught by Hittites, he would flee to his base in Millawanda (Miletus), which was controlled by the Greeks. His story is interesting as it falls within the Trojan War chronology. It seems Acheans were playing Hittites to establish complete control over Western Anatolia, where Troy is found.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. They even wanted to settle in Egypt but the pharaoh, understanding the danger overpopulation would bring, stopped them. A group settled in Canaan though, known as Peleset/Philistines, from where we get the myth of David and Goliath. First it was rejected, but now scholars see the armor Goliath wore as ''plausible'' for the Mycenaean civilization. What made them want to migrate is one of the biggest mysteries of history.

**** In the Assuwan Rebellion (a couple centuries before the supposed war) vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Ilios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice''! This puts Trojans on the same side as Mycenaean Greeks, whose only proof of involvement seems to be a sword found that it's clearly of Mycenaean origin, and not regional. So Trojans rose against the Hittite Empire, --of whom they were part of-- and were helped by Mycenaean Greeks. It seems like Trojans and Greeks were on the same side, against the Hittites.
**** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyama-Radu by the Hittites. For 35 years he attacked Hittite vassals states (including Troy) causing trouble to not one but three kings, before it was seemingly turned over to Hittites. It's generally agreed he was being helped by Mycenaean Greeks, because whenever he was almost caught by Hittites, he would flee to his base in Millawanda (Miletus), which was controlled by the Greeks. His story is interesting as it falls within the Trojan War chronology. It seems Acheans were playing Hittites to establish complete control over Western Anatolia, where Troy is found.

*** Troy was continued to be habitated for some centuries after the supposed war.
*** The Fall of Troy corresponds with the larger Bronze Age collapse. A confederate of raiders known by Egyptians as Sea People, destroyed most major civilizations in the Aegean, before being stopped by the Egyptians.[[note]] Egypt was weakened from the attacks. In Egyptian drawings they had brought families and animals. They wanted to settle, they too were running from someone (Linear B records a rise in piracy in the Mycenaean region) or something (Thera's eruption and its aftermath effects it has been brought up. Thera was Plato's inspiration for Atlantis). In the end some of them known as Peleset/Philistines settled in Canaan. The Bible continues the story from here, with David and Goliath. Same story, different perspectives.[[/note]] It's generally agreed that Sea People were multicultural, and Greeks were one one of them. The Egyptians recorded them as Ekwesh (Aechean). Homer might have been right of the existence of a confederation. That said, Greeks too were hurt from the Bronze Age collapse, they survived but they entered a Dark Age.
*** The heroes of the Iliad might have not been kings at all. In Linear B, they seemed to be names of shepherds and other working class people.
** Archeology seems to suggest that there were ''several'' ancient cities standing in that place, often separated by periods of devastation, and that Troy of Homer was only one of them.

*** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyama-Radu by the Hittites.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. They even wanted to settle in Egypt but the pharaoh, understanding the danger overpopulation would bring, stopped them. A group settled in Canaan though, known as Peleset/Philistines. What made them want to migrate is one of the biggest mysteries of history.

*** Paris was Greek. Or maybe he was a mix of two people? His name in Iliad was also Alexander and someone named Alaksandu ruled Wilusa. Here's a question though. What's a Greek doing ruling a non-Greek town? Why was he there in the first place. In fact, there are several other names among the Trojans which appear to be of Greek origin, like Hector. There are also others that don't appear Greek like Priam.
**** Perhaps the Assuwan Rebellion might shed some light on why an Ancient Greek man was found in Troy, but it occurs a couple centuries before the supposed war. Vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Ilios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice''! Interestingly this puts Trojans on the same side as Mycenaean Greeks, whose only proof of involvement seems to be a sword found that it's clearly of Mycenaean origin, and not regional. So Trojans rose against the Hittite Empire, and were helped by Mycenaean Greeks.
**** There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaeans a.k.a Mycenaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter, where they mentioned they went to war for it. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not Mycenaean Greeks. They resolved it with a political marriage. Tawagalawan is the Hittite form of Ancient Greek name Eteocles, or rather a more archaic form *Etewoklewes with 'w' falling from use over time ('ϝ' called 'digamma' is the Ancient Greek letter for 'w'). In the same way, Wilusa became Ilios.

*** More specifically, it seems it's referring to the Assuwan Rebellion, where vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Ilios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice''! Interestingly this puts Trojans on the same side as Mycenaean Greeks, whose only proof of involvement seems to be a sword found that it's clearly of Mycenaean origin, and not regional.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, and fires have destroyed several key locations. And then all information we have for this time period stops. It's one of the biggest mysteries of history.

*** There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaeans a.k.a Mycenaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter, where they mentioned they went to war for it. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not Mycenaean Greeks. They resolved it with a political marriage. Tawagalawan is the Hittite form of Ancient Greek name Eteocles, or rather a more archaic form *Etewoklewes with 'w' falling from use over time ('ϝ' called 'digamma' is the Ancient Greek letter for 'w'). In the same way, Wilusa became Ilios.
*** King Priam might have not been a king at all, but renegade named Piyama-Radu by the Hittites.

*** There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan (Hittite version of Ancient Greek name Eteocles) letter, where they mentioned they went to war for. However, Hittites were clearly the aggressors not the Ancient Greeks.

*** More specifically, it seems it's referring to the Assuwan Rebellion of 1177 BC (within the dates given for the Trojan War), where vassal states of the Hittite Empire, including Wilusia (Illios) rose against the empire but were crushed soundly. ''Twice''.

**** Or it's a memory of the Bronze Age collapse where people have been in constant movement due to reasons not well understood. Entire civilizations fell, once glorious cities became inhabited and new cities became overpopulated due to the migration. There were rebellions recorded, fires have destroyed several important buildings.
** While the possibilities the Trojans won are interesting, they're still hypotheses. We don't know for sure there was a Trojan war to begin with. We know there was a Troy though, also known as Ilios, with two names in Hittite documents as well, Wilusa and Taruisa (perhaps Troad, not Troy, is more likely). Why? Who knows...
*** Homer seems to have combined two layers of Troy history: one called Troy VI when the city was rich and splendid but it was destroyed by an earthquake not war, the other Troy [=VIIa=] which was exactly like Homer described it (the architecture) but it wasn't rich, it was still suffering from the earthquake. That city as probably destroyed by war. Rather, it has been described as a city under siege.

*** There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan (Hittite version of Greek name Eteocles) letter. Diplomatic problems.

** While the possibilities the Trojans won are interesting, they're still hypotheses. We don't know for sure there was a Trojan war to begin with. We know there was a Troy though, also known as Ilios, with two names in Hittite documents as well, Wilusa and Taruisa. Why? Who knows...
*** From escavations, Homer seems to have combined two layers of Troy history: one called Troy VI when the city was rich and splendid but it was destroyed by an earthquake not war, the other Troy [=VIIa=] which was exactly like Homer described it (the architecture) but it wasn't rich, it was still suffering from the earthquake. That city as probably destroyed by war. If not war, fire.

*** There were problems between Ahhiyawans (Achaean Greeks) and Hittites over Wilusa, according to Tawagalawan letter. Diplomatic problems.

* Absence of further information on the Legio IX Hispana after 117 AD, when it was stationed on the Caledonian border, led to speculation that it had been wiped out in an ambush by local tribes during an invasion of what is now Scotland. This is the basis of Rosemary Sutcliff's 1954 children's historical novel, ''Literature/TheEagleOfTheNinth'', its 2011 film adaptation ''Film/TheEagle'' and its 2010 [[DuelingMovies dueling movie]], ''Film/{{Centurion}}''. Decades after the novel was published, however, historians found scant evidence that the Legion had actually been moved to the German border, and later, to the East. The speculation now is that it was destroyed in 161 AD during a battle in Armenia. Until someone finds evidence that it was just deployed somewhere else, of course.

* The so-called "Spartan Mirage." Historians for a long time held Sparta as an unstoppable military juggernaut, due to its core army of ProudWarriorRaceGuys and badass warrior kings; ceasing warlike activities only to deliver dry witty phrases to philosophers for posterity's sake. Problem is, most historical sources can be divided into two categories: a.) Athenian oligarchs such as Plato or Xenophon, who praised what little they knew of Sparta's system in order to address their own criticisms of Athenian democracy and b.) Roman sources such as Plutarch, writing long after the fact and trying to link Sparta's "martial spirit" to Rome's own. Sparta was something of the North Korea of its day, complete with secret police; contact with the outside was highly discouraged, and visitors to Sparta such as Xenophon were essentially treated to a Spartan Disneyland of all the things they wished to glorify about themselves. More modern assessments of Sparta, working from primary sources, generally show a less prosaic portrayal of their military might: Sparta was essentially a Peloponnese regional power, that essentially cannibalized all the non-military functions of its own state in order to continue a bitter war with the city-state of Argos, and was able to use the ensuing victory to bully its allies into fighting for them. Spartan military supremacy lasted less than a hundred years, its hegemony over Greece only ten, the "invincible" Spartan army lost more battles than it won, and its central warrior caste was decimated by the city's own leaders to profit from their "inalienable" land holdings.

*** From escavations, Homer seems to have combined two layers of Troy history: one called Troy VI when the city was rich and splendid but it was destroyed by an earthquake not war, the other Troy VIIa which was exactly like Homer described it (the architecture) but it wasn't rich, it was still suffering from the earthquake. That city as probably destroyed by war. If not war, fire.

* Orgies in Ancient Rome: For centuries people believed that Greek and Roman orgies were nothing more than sex parties. Modern research has debunked this idea. In reality orgies were secret rites. Decadent activities could be a part of them, but it was all in the style of a ceremony, perhaps closer to the Wiccan "Great Rite". Also, some behaviour wouldn't be considered so sexy and exciting to modern audiences: for example: stuffing yourself with food until you want to throw up, then leave to a special room to do so, and return to continue eating was not uncommon.
** This last sentence is also an example of this trope, being based on an urban legend about the word "vomitorium", which refers to the exit of an amphitheatre and not anything to do with actual vomit. (Same etymology, though: vŏmo, vŏmis, vomui, vomitum, vŏmĕre, "to spew forth".)

*** This is the Roman equivalent to assuming that the three-piece business suit or the full tuxedo is everyday casualwear for today. In fact, Romans hated the toga (they were hot in the Italian summers, cumbersome, and you can't use your left arm while wearing one) so much that there had to be a law stating that togas must be worn to enter a forum.

It isn't a common occurrence: most of our knowledge about the past is based on hard evidence. No amount of scientific innovation is going to change the date of the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI Battle of Vimy Ridge]] or the number of people who died in the sinking of the RMS ''Empress of Ireland''. But some of what we believe to be sound historical fact is based on soft and sometimes unreliable evidence - hearsay, legends, traditions, opinions that have gone unchallenged due only to respect for authority and / or a lack of dissenting voices, reasoning based on data too fragmented to be unambiguous, and occasionally outright forgeries. When new discoveries or new methods of investigation or even new opinions on an event lead to the original belief being discredited among historians, the writer who based his work on contemporary history can be unfairly left looking like he [[TheyJustDidntCare skimped on the research]].

* One of the first complete Neanderthal skeletons discovered is that of a male with a twisted, bent spine, a wasted lower jaw, and a pronounced hunchback. Archaeologists assumed this was a typical Neanderthal skeleton, which led to the popular view of Neanderthals as hunchbacked, chinless knuckle-draggers. Recent analysis has indicated, however, that the individual in question was probably well over sixty years old and suffered from severe arthritis and bone wastage. Most skeletons found since suggest that a Neanderthal would likely look very similar to a modern human (although they wouldn't be winning any beauty contests). Well-known works based in part on the old trope include Creator/IsaacAsimov's short story ''The Ugly Little Boy'' and numerous cartoons from Gary Larson's ''TheFarSide''.

* LouisXIV: Versailles, the palace where Louis XIV and his successors lived in wealth and decadence. Most adaptations depict it as a glamorous, elegant and classy place. However, to modern audiences, some of the behaviour the king and the nobility committed would seem extremely vulgar and undignified. For instance, people didn't bath often and our notion of hygien was virtually inexistant.

** Not to mention that salt was far too ''expensive'' to squander tons of it by dumping it on the ground. And the Romans the infrastructure of Carthage intact and the land around Carthage fertile, as Roman soldiers will be sent to live and farm there after they've been demobilized.

*** Catherine of Aragon is often depicted as a typical dark Spaniard whose failure to bear a son was her "fault". But Catherine of Aragon had reddish-gold hair, blue eyes, and pale skin; not only were the Spanish upper classes of the time much paler than the common people (or modern Spaniards for that matter), but Catherine had English and French ancestry as a descendant of John of Gaunt. What's more, her reproductive difficulties may have been organic or psychiatric in part[[note]]she may have had PCOS and some historians suggest she had anorexia[[/note]], but the horrific prenatal and perinatal care as practised in the Tudor court couldn't have helped.

* The final redaction date for the Torah has continually moved forward, from earlier than 1000 B.C. (the alleged time of Moses, and the rise of the Kohanim priests), to the Deuteronomical revival of king Josiah of Judah in circa 600 B.C.. Some historians even believe that the Torah didn't reach it's final form until the Babylonian captivity (beginning some 20 years after Josiah's death, and lasting about 50-60 years). Similarly, the prominence of Jerusalem and the preeminence of monotheism over henotheism[[note]]In which, many gods exist, but only one is worshipped[[/note]] have been moved to later and later points in history to square them with archaeological and documentary evidence.

** Likewise, his disestablishment of the state religion and proclamation of Aten as the one and only true God has been portrayed as a New Age revelation just short of CrystalSpiresAndTogas, a beneficent proto-Christianity, [[SigmundFreud the inspiration for monotheistic Judaism,]] a megalomaniac's delusions, or even something his mom put him up to for political reasons. The most popular theory among historians was that it was due more to a feeling that the traditional gods had deserted Egypt (not only had the country endured a massive earthquake and tsunami but also a long series of pandemics) coupled with Akhenaten's desire to wrest power from the priests of Amun.