History Main / ChewbaccaDefense

4th Apr '18 11:01:07 AM PF
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->'''Isaac''': I don't really understand what's going on, but he just broke down crying. What do you suppose it means, Miria?\\
'''Miria''': I think it means we won!

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->'''Isaac''': ->'''Isaac:''' I don't really understand what's going on, but he just broke down crying. What do you suppose it means, Miria?\\
'''Miria''': '''Miria:''' I think it means we won!
3rd Apr '18 11:50:24 PM Wheezy
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The sad part? ''It works''. [[TruthInTelevision Not just in media, but in]] RealLife, too. In fact, most political systems are ''based'' on doing this.

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The sad part? ''It works''. [[TruthInTelevision Not just in media, but in]] RealLife, too. In fact, most many political systems are ''based'' on doing this.
19th Feb '18 12:49:37 PM PF
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* Interrupting your opponent and/or talking about nonsense purely to delay and lengthen the debate (a.k.a. "filibustering"). Common in democratic debate, but dictatorships only bother when they're too weak to silence their opposition outright.[[note]]The only thing dictatorships have in common is their ability, and ''need'', to control their own public image. Even the weakest and most corrupt BananaRepublic can at least intimidate their conventional news-media into self-censorship -- a little intimidation goes a long way when you know where to find these people and are free to do whatever you like to them.[[/note]]

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* Interrupting your opponent and/or talking about nonsense purely to delay and lengthen the debate (a.k.a. "filibustering"). Common in democratic debate, but dictatorships only bother when they're too weak to silence their opposition outright.[[note]]The only thing dictatorships have in common is their ability, and ''need'', to control their own public image. Even the weakest and most corrupt BananaRepublic can at least intimidate their conventional news-media news media into self-censorship self censorship -- a little intimidation goes a long way when you know where to find these people and are free to do whatever you like to them.[[/note]]



* If you can word your statements and arguments in a way that is too confusing, intelligent-sounding, or nonsensical for the opponent to understand or respond to, it makes them wrong and you right. See InsaneTrollLogic.

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* If you can word your statements and arguments in a way that is too confusing, intelligent-sounding, intelligent sounding, or nonsensical for the opponent to understand or respond to, it makes them wrong and you right. See InsaneTrollLogic.



* If you can make your opponent look bad, then their argument must be equally bad and therefore they must be wrong and you have to be right. (see also: GodwinsLaw, AdHominem, [[TheWarOnStraw Strawman]]).

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* If you can make your opponent look bad, then their argument must be equally bad and therefore they must be wrong and you have to be right. (see See also: GodwinsLaw, AdHominem, [[TheWarOnStraw Strawman]]).Strawman]].



* One GEICO ad from 2016 involves a man on trial who bragged about his crimes online. His defense is that switching to GEICO could save you 15% or more on car insurance. The judge declares him not guilty as a result.

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* One GEICO ad from 2016 involves a man on trial who bragged about his crimes online. His defense is that switching to GEICO could can save you 15% or more on car insurance. The judge declares him not guilty as a result.



** Cut to the two of them eating vanilla ice cream cones.
** To top it off, the film begins with Naylor cleverly turning around criticism, convincing a juvenile cancer victim and TV talk show audience that in fact it's the ''cancer victims' advocate'' who's selling death, [[MindScrew because the tobacco industry wants people alive to smoke while the advocates need them dead for their work]].
** Plus when Joey has to write an essay on what's best about America, Nick replies "Our endless appeals system," with almost knee-jerk response time.



* In ''Film/AnimalHouse'', Otter [[SlipperySlopeFallacy somehow turns]] the charges against the Deltas for having sex with their drunk party guests into an attack on the fraternity system, which is an attack on college, which is an attack on America. Then all the Deltas march out humming ''The Star-Spangled Banner''. [[SubvertedTrope This does not help in the least.]] [[DoubleSubversion But the Deltas don't really care.]]

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* In ''Film/AnimalHouse'', Otter [[SlipperySlopeFallacy somehow turns]] the charges against the Deltas for having sex with their drunk party guests into an attack on the fraternity system, which is an attack on college, which is an attack on America. Then all the Deltas march out humming ''The "The Star-Spangled Banner''. Banner". [[SubvertedTrope This does not help in the least.]] least]]. [[DoubleSubversion But the Deltas don't really care.]]care]].



* Surprisingly enough, it actually happened to ''Franchise/StarWars'' with Chewbacca himself. In the special features of the DVD set, when Creator/GeorgeLucas proved too difficult for [[ExecutiveMeddling the executives to meddle with]] (thanks to Alan Ladd, Jr.), they turned to a different approach: "But the Wookiee has no pants!" knowing that changing that would require re-shooting a ''lot'' of scenes, which would put Lucas severely over budget. Thankfully, that didn't work either.

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* Surprisingly enough, it actually happened to ''Franchise/StarWars'' with Chewbacca himself. In the special features of the DVD set, when Creator/GeorgeLucas proved too difficult for [[ExecutiveMeddling the executives to meddle with]] (thanks with]], thanks to Alan Ladd, Jr.), , they turned to a different approach: "But the Wookiee has no pants!" knowing that changing that would require re-shooting a ''lot'' of scenes, which would put Lucas severely over budget. Thankfully, that didn't work either.



* In ''Literature/{{Gormenghast}}'', Steerpike uses this method to manipulate two mentally retarded sisters into doing his bidding and keeping quiet about it--after all, he must know what he's talking about if he uses so many long words...
** There are also hints that the reason the entire population (including its ruler) of Gormenghast go along with the pointless rituals enacted by Sourdust, Barquentine and then Steerpike is that they are so portentous and complex that it is assumed they must be really important and necessary.

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* In ''Literature/{{Gormenghast}}'', Steerpike uses this method to manipulate two mentally retarded sisters into doing his bidding and keeping quiet about it--after all, he must know what he's talking about if he uses so many long words...
**
words. There are also hints that the reason the entire population (including population, including its ruler) of Gormenghast ruler, go along with the pointless rituals enacted by Sourdust, Barquentine and then Steerpike is that they are so portentous and complex that it is assumed they must be really important and necessary.



* In Gery Greer and Bob Ruddick's ''Max and Me and the Time Machine'' the title characters' consciousnesses are sent back through time, ending up in the bodies of Middle Ages people. When the Earl of Hampshire tries to talk one of them into joining the Crusades he takes his Great-Uncle Dexter's advice ("If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em") and comes up with a rather interesting oration.

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* In Gery Greer and Bob Ruddick's ''Max and Me and the Time Machine'' the title characters' consciousnesses are sent back through time, ending up in the bodies of Middle Ages people. When the Earl of Hampshire tries to talk one of them into joining the Crusades he takes his Great-Uncle Dexter's advice ("If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em") and comes up with a rather interesting oration.oration:



* During a sketch of ''Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus'' the lawyer calls in several unrelated "witnesses", including a "dead" man in a coffin (who knocks once for "yes" and twice for "no").

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* During a sketch of ''Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus'' ''Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus'', the lawyer calls in several unrelated "witnesses", including a "dead" man in a coffin (who who knocks once for "yes" and twice for "no"). "no":



* Many TV pundits make a ''living'' out of using this trope. Just about any public commentator of any political leaning may eventually end up here once they get enough fame. Of course, this calls for a lot of parodies -- [[PoesLaw not always discernible from the real thing]].

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* Many TV pundits make a ''living'' out of using this trope.this. Just about any public commentator of any political leaning may eventually end up here once they get enough fame. Of course, this calls for a lot of parodies -- [[PoesLaw not always discernible from the real thing]].



* Michael of ''[[Series/TheOfficeUS The Office]] (U.S.)'' does this in the episode "China" at the end of his debate with Oscar on China's role in global politics. Oscar knows much more about the situation than Michael does, so Michael launches into a completely irrelevant speech about freedom and the American way. Everyone applauds, while Oscar vainly tries to remind them that it had nothing to do with the original argument.
* In an episode of ''Series/{{Batman}}'' where Batman and the Penguin are running for mayor of Gotham City, the Penguin points out that Batman is often seen in the company of criminals while he himself is often surrounded by police. He argues from these ([[ExactWords technically true]]) facts that Batman is probably a criminal while he himself is an associate of the law (this after pointedly declaring that [[HypocriticalHumor he will not engage in mudslinging]]).

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* Michael of ''[[Series/TheOfficeUS The Office]] (U.S.)'' ''Series/{{The Office|US}}'' does this in the episode "China" at the end of his debate with Oscar on China's role in global politics. Oscar knows much more about the situation than Michael does, so Michael launches into a completely irrelevant speech about freedom and the American way. Everyone applauds, while Oscar vainly tries to remind them that it had nothing to do with the original argument.
* In an episode of ''Series/{{Batman}}'' where Batman and the Penguin are running for mayor of Gotham City, the Penguin points out that Batman is often seen in the company of criminals while he himself is often surrounded by police. He argues from these ([[ExactWords technically true]]) facts that Batman is probably a criminal while he himself is an associate of the law (this law. This is after he pointedly declaring declares that [[HypocriticalHumor he will not won't engage in mudslinging]]).mudslinging]].



* Comedian Ron White joked about this once.

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* Comedian Ron White joked about this once.once:



* The trope namer was based on Johnnie Cochran's defense of O.J. Simpson. The lead forensic expert on the case, Dr. Henry Lee, kept making guarded allusions to "something not looking right" with the evidence. This, along with the horror stories surrounding the LAPD's past conduct, was all it took to convince the jury, despite Dr. Lee not providing any real examples as to how the evidence was faked. Much of the forensic evidence used had already been notoriously confusing. There was also the fact a preservative was found to be mixed in with the blood collected, and opened the possibility it was contaminated. Cochran later went on a long spiel in his closing argument where he compared Mark Fuhrman to Hitler for his past racist statements and ultimately blamed unknown drug dealers for the murders.

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* The trope namer was based on Johnnie Cochran's defense of O.J. Simpson. The lead forensic expert on the case, Dr. Henry Lee, kept making guarded allusions to "something not looking right" with the evidence. This, along with the horror stories surrounding the LAPD's past conduct, misconduct, was all it took to convince the jury, despite Dr. Lee not providing any real examples as to how the evidence was faked. Much of the forensic evidence used had already been notoriously confusing. There was also the fact a preservative was found to be mixed in with the blood collected, and which opened the possibility that it was contaminated. Cochran later went on a long spiel in his closing argument where he compared Mark Fuhrman to Hitler for his past racist statements and ultimately blamed unknown drug dealers for the murders.
10th Feb '18 8:15:59 PM Troperinik
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Added DiffLines:

* ''WesternAnimation/{{Kaeloo}}'': In one episode where Kaeloo and Mr. Cat are having a debate where Quack Quack must decide the winner, Mr. Cat's only "argument" is to repeatedly Kaeloo a liar, which convinces Quack Quack to choose Mr. Cat. Kaeloo even lampshades the fact that his victory made absolutely no sense and he never said anything in defense of the subject he was arguing about.
5th Feb '18 12:59:21 PM PF
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* ''Franchise/{{Danganronpa}}'' Turns this into a gameplay mechanic in the way of Bullet Time Battle and its variants, where the opposing side usually in a last ditch effort to defend themselves tries to throw a combination of [[AdHominem random insults]] and [[InsaneTrollLogic nonsensical arguments]] at the PlayerCharacter with a loud noise at rapid succession. To counter this the player has to destroy the opponents assertions and eventually counter their final statement with the truth. True to this trope, losing these debates leads into an instant Game Over.

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* ''Franchise/{{Danganronpa}}'' Turns turns this into a gameplay mechanic in the way of Bullet Time Battle and its variants, where the opposing side usually in a last ditch effort to defend themselves tries to throw a combination of [[AdHominem random insults]] and [[InsaneTrollLogic nonsensical arguments]] at the PlayerCharacter with a loud noise at rapid succession. To counter this the player has to destroy the opponents assertions and eventually counter their final statement with the truth. True to this trope, losing these debates leads into an instant Game Over.
5th Feb '18 12:53:46 PM PF
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'''Lawyer:''' Oh it's correct, is it? I see. I wonder, Miss Talliot, whether you were aware that the American novelist Gertrude Stein was a self-confessed Lesbian?
** ...And only gets more absurd from there.
** Best part? [[spoiler: The witness is the lawyer's ''mother''!]]

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'''Lawyer:''' Oh it's correct, is it? I see. I wonder, Miss Talliot, whether you were aware that the American novelist Gertrude Stein was a self-confessed Lesbian?
** ...And only gets more absurd from there.
** Best part? [[spoiler: The witness is the lawyer's ''mother''!]]
lesbian?



* Claire Huxtable uses this in an episode of ''Series/ADifferentWorld'' where she takes Vanessa to visit Hillman and is "caught" having dinner with an old boyfriend. Vanessa questions Claire about her behavior; Claire simply responds that Vanessa can ask questions when she's "had five children and can still fit into a size six dress." This shuts Vanessa up pretty well.
** It helped that Vanessa was already in trouble for sneaking out to go on a date with Dwayne which is how they ran into each other.

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* Claire Huxtable uses this in an episode of ''Series/ADifferentWorld'' where she takes Vanessa to visit Hillman and is "caught" having dinner with an old boyfriend. Vanessa questions Claire about her behavior; Claire simply responds that Vanessa can ask questions when she's "had five children and can still fit into a size six dress." This shuts Vanessa up pretty well. \n** It helped helps that Vanessa was already in trouble for sneaking out to go on a date with Dwayne which is how they ran into each other.
5th Feb '18 12:51:39 PM PF
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''[Huey turns off music]''

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''[Huey -->''[Huey turns off music]''
5th Feb '18 12:50:40 PM PF
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** "The Trial of Robert Kelly" features R. Kelly on trial for urinating on a minor. Despite the absolutely overwhelming evidence against him, he wins the case because of his popularity and his lawyer used manipulative LogicalFallacies such as comparing R. Kelly's perversions to the Founding Fathers' (in an inversion of HitlerAteSugar) and accused the staggering evidence of being "really" based on racism. The defense lawyer also made an issue out of the fact that the DA in the case, Tom Dubois, has a white wife (Sarah). [[AuthorAvatar Huey Freeman]] calls the entire court out on their stupidity afterwards, asserting that not every famous black men that gets arrested is Nelson Mandela. He also points out while the government does racially persecute a lot of innocent black men, R. Kelly is not one of them and that if they really cared about him, they should do everything in their power to make sure that he gets the help that he needs to overcome his problem. Everybody ignores him, of course.

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** "The Trial of Robert R. Kelly" features R. Kelly on trial for urinating on a minor. Despite the absolutely overwhelming evidence against him, he wins the case because of his popularity and his lawyer used manipulative LogicalFallacies such as comparing R. Kelly's perversions to the Founding Fathers' (in Fathers', in an inversion of HitlerAteSugar) HitlerAteSugar, and accused accuses the staggering evidence of being "really" based on racism. The defense lawyer also made makes an issue out of the fact that the DA in the case, Tom Dubois, has a white wife (Sarah). [[AuthorAvatar Huey Freeman]] calls the entire court out on their stupidity afterwards, asserting that not every afterwards:
''[Huey turns off music]''
-->'''Huey:''' What the hell is wrong with you people? Every
famous black men nigga that gets arrested is not Nelson Mandela. He also points out while Mandela! Yes, the government does racially persecute conspires to put a lot of innocent black men, men in jail on fallacious charges. But R. Kelly is not one of them and that if they really cared about him, they should do everything in their power to make sure that he gets those men! We all know the nigga can sing! But, what happened to standards? What happen to bare minimums! You a fan of R. Kelly? You want to help that he needs R. Kelly? Then get some counseling for R. Kelly, introduce him to overcome some older women, hide his problem. Everybody ignores him, of course.camcorder! But, don't pretend like the man is a hero!
-->''[Huey attempts to return to his seat, only to come back.]''
-->'''Huey:''' And stop the damn dancing, act like you got some goddamn sense people! Damn! Through playin' round here!
5th Feb '18 12:43:19 PM PF
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In addition, some high school debaters adopt the style of speaking so quickly, their opponent would lack the opportunity to write all the arguments down, leading to the opponent being unable to argue certain points. This is known as spreading. Because silence is consent, any points not responded to are considered dropped, and are no longer under debate. A practiced spreader will throw so many arguments out that it's difficult to avoid dropping an entire category. This is completely within the rules, but not all judges will tolerate it because thy have to follow the debate too. Most judges who have a problem with spreading will say so beforehand, and then decide for the opponent if they do it. This differs from the Gish Gallop in that the arguments are NOT bogus, so calling them out on it doesn't work.

to:

In addition, some high school debaters adopt the style of speaking so quickly, their opponent would lack the opportunity to write all the arguments down, leading to the opponent being unable to argue certain points. This is known as spreading. Because silence is consent, any points not responded to are considered dropped, and are no longer under debate. A practiced spreader will throw so many arguments out that it's difficult to avoid dropping an entire category. This is completely within the rules, but not all judges will tolerate it because thy have to follow the debate too. Most judges who have a problem with spreading will say so beforehand, and then decide for the opponent if they do it. This differs from the Gish Gallop in that the arguments are NOT ''not'' bogus, so calling them out on it doesn't work.
4th Feb '18 7:10:15 PM zaphod77
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In addition, some high school debaters adopt the style of speaking so quickly, their opponent would lack the opportunity to write all the arguments down, leading to the opponent being unable to argue certain points. This is known as spreading. Because silence is consent, any points not responded to are considered dropped, and are no longer under debate. A practiced spreader will throw so many arguments out that it's difficult to avoid dropping an entire category. This is completely within the rules, but not all judges will tolerate it because thy have to follow the debate too. Most judges who have a problem with spreading will say so beforehand, and then decide for the opponent if they do it.

to:

In addition, some high school debaters adopt the style of speaking so quickly, their opponent would lack the opportunity to write all the arguments down, leading to the opponent being unable to argue certain points. This is known as spreading. Because silence is consent, any points not responded to are considered dropped, and are no longer under debate. A practiced spreader will throw so many arguments out that it's difficult to avoid dropping an entire category. This is completely within the rules, but not all judges will tolerate it because thy have to follow the debate too. Most judges who have a problem with spreading will say so beforehand, and then decide for the opponent if they do it. This differs from the Gish Gallop in that the arguments are NOT bogus, so calling them out on it doesn't work.
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