History Main / CasualCompetitiveConflict

Debates on this topic can get {{u|nderstatement}}gly, fast, especially in cases where the creator of the game [[CreatorBacklash takes sides]]. On ThisVeryWiki, a large number of pages, especially in the YMMV tab, have to be policed closely because those joining the debate on either side have a tendency to degenerate in the [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement 1% who'd love to start a fight]].

** The purpose behind ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' is that ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' had a number of balance issues, which it was dedicated to fixing to create a more lasting game. It could afford more time to do so, as it was a GameMod, not a market title subject to [[ChristmasRushed crippling deadlines]].

** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' is a good example of the balanced view, as the Website/{{Smogon}} fan community organizes characters into strict tiers for metagame informational purposes but players are encouraged to use the ones we like. It helps that the tiers are determined by how often certain Pokemon are used, so their strength is an influence but not the be-all-end-all.

** In ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'', "Wavedashing" (a physics exploit where one air dodged towards the ground diagonally to slide, which was often faster than running) is often blamed for the [[CreatorBacklash radical changes]] made in ''Brawl'', becoming so omnipresent in TournamentPlay that in many cases nobody moved normally at all. Interestingly, it ''was'' discovered during development, but it was ignored because it was seen as a harmless bug. The eventual discovery that it was [[NotSoWeak not so harmless]] was one factor in the sequel's total crackdown on all forms of advanced play.
** In ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'', the [[CreatorBacklash crackdown on]] and [[ObviousRulePatch removal of]] all forms of advanced play, including {{Combo}}s, was met harshly. The metagame rapidly stagnated, and many bored players either went back to ''Melee'' or [[VideoGame/ProjectM fixed the problems themselves]].
** ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' is a serious BaseBreaker in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' fandom for bringing back ''Melee''[='=]s mechanics, especially among ''Brawl''[='=]s defenders, who accuse it of just being out to ruin what they see as an already-perfect game.

*** The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing seemingly arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; whether one agrees with it or not, Smogon was MisBlamed for this one, as it was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''VideoGame/PokemonStadium'' games).
*** Also from Smogon ([[WordOfDante Big surprise, huh?]]) is the incredibly divisive controversy on the move Swagger, which boosted the opponent's attack sharply, but gave them a chance of attacking themselves. It was once a legitimate tactic, but as the Prankster ability gives status moves priority and is more widely accessible than ever now, it turns fights against Klefki and Sableye into a gambler's roll - either you kill them with your boosted attack, or they kill ''you'' with their now-1000+ Base Power [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]]. There is no middle ground in these types of matches, so while there are counters, the growing number of proponents of banning the move argue so because it's just so easy-to-take-up, requires little knowledge, relies massively on [[LuckBasedMission luck]], and is just plain ''[[BoringButPractical boring]]''. Defenders of the move cite the fact that "[[FanNickname SwagPlay]]" is ''not'' the only strategy that it's valid for, and as it has been a mainstay in the series for a decade and a half, banning it now would just be [[{{Scrub}} silly and cowardly]].

** In the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' competitive scene, Smogon rules [[ExploitedTrope take advantage]] of the natural trends to choose more powerful characters, setting up its tier system based on frequency of use. [[TropesAreNotBad The intention is to allow everyone to choose their personal favorites]] without danger of being [[CurbStompBattle swept]] by a select few who stand out.

** ''[[VideoGame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur V]] is often considered to have the best metagame in the SoulSeries, but is [[ObviousBeta rather blatantly unfinished]] everywhere else. The developers have admitted that only one fourth of the intended game was finished due to ExecutiveMeddling, so the mechanics had to get the most attention and the fastest, which has left some players crying foul as they would rather have had the attention placed on the story that the series was typically known for.

** In the ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'' community, the "No items, [[TierInducedScrappy Fox only]], [[AbridgedArenaArray Final Destination]]" {{Meme}} reflects players' annoyance at the fact that, in a game full of wildly diverse characters and stages, only a few are typically chosen.[[/note]]
** In the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' competitive scene, Smogon rules [[ExploitedTrope take advantage]] of the natural trends to choose more powerful characters, setting up its tier system based on frequency of use. [[TropesAreNotBad The intention is to allow everyone to choose their ersonal favorites]] without danger of being [[CurbStompBattle swept]] by a select few who stand out.

** This problem is OlderThanTheyThink. Players nowadays are more used to being able to enjoy a game the way they want to, in the privacy of their own homes. Few people below the age of 20 would know what it's like to rush into an arcade to play your favorite game and find it hogged by someone who doesn't play it they way they prefer, whether that meant tourney players who steal their quarters or amateurs that get stuck on the same stage for hours. Someone living in the same household as their foil may have a close idea of how it feels, though.[[/note]]
** With the [[MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena MOBA]] genre in general, notably ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' and ''VideoGame/DefenseOfTheAncients'', their teamwork based nature causes conflict between people who watch the metagame like a hawk and those who are just there for a good time with their favorite character. it doesn't help that the genre is developing into a serious "E-sport" where thousands of dollars are on the line for those with the skills to win it. People in the queues see pros win that kind of cash and dream of being on that kind of team, woe to anyone who isn't up to their standards.[[/note]]

** In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'', with such a [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters large number of characters]] which are largely left for the players to decide what goes on in their minds, players get attached to their team, and when one is suddenly banned, players can feel that it's a personal attack against their friend and partner. Case in point: Mega Kangaskhan, who was liked for her design but was found to be able to power up rapidly due to [[ActuallyTwoMooks her signature ability]] being paired the move [[ExactlywhatItSaysOnTheTin Power-Up Punch]]. Because of this, she was one of the few non-[[OlympusMons legendary]] Pokémon banned by Smogon rules in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''. A lot of players who ''were'' glad that she was finally useful in battle were very cheesed off by this news, and the fact that BreakoutCharacter Lucario's Mega Form was banned as well later has turned discussions about Smogon rather violent.

** Lag; the bane of a professional player's existence. Lag, frame delay, input drops, etc, directly interferes with a match and randomly makes it possible for a well-practiced technique or combo to fail. Thus, many pros either never play online or refuse to take it seriously. However, with the advent of streaming, LAN parties, and online tournaments, these sorts of problems are becoming more and more unavoidable. Players who primarily play online (or can ''only'' play online) don't like having ''their'' skill and hard practice invalidated by pros who say they "only" win because of lag or say things like "Play me in real life". It's true that online and real life are two different arenas, but if you're only good in one and not the other, isn't it ''your'' problem if you're out of your habitat?

** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'' had Random tripping, which couldn't be disabled or worked around (unlike [[MemeticMutation items and stage hazards]]) and left many a player highly vulnerable, turned many matches completely around.[[/note]]

** The ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''VideoGame/RockBand'' fandoms are split between those who just think it's fun to play the electric guitar and fantasize about rock stardom and those who play for the leaderboards, aiming to hit every note perfect and ender [[SuperMode Star Power]] at exactly the right points.[[/note]]
** In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'', do you just go nuts raising [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter adorable]] [[KillerRabbit superpowered]] critters, or do you strive ToBeAMaster?[[/note]]

*** The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing [[DidNotDoTheResearch seemingly arbitrary rules]], banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; whether one agrees with it or not, Smogon was MisBlamed for this one, as it was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''VideoGame/PokemonStadium'' games).

*** The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; whether one agrees with it or not, Smogon was MisBlamed for this one, as it was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''VideoGame/PokemonStadium'' games).

** In the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' competitive scene, Smogon rules [[ExploitedTrope take advantage]] of the natural trends to choose more powerful characters, setting up its tier system based on frequency of use. The intention is to allow everyone to choose their [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters personal favorites]] without danger of being [[CurbStompBattle swept]] by a select few who stand out.
** In ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'', competitive players sometimes only accept one loadout per character as "the right way" to play a character, and any player using a weapon other than their favored three will get chewed out over chat or mic. In Mann vs. Machine, for example, it's usually recommended that Heavies use the Brass Beast, Medic uses Kritzkrieg, Scout uses Fan O'War, and Soldier uses Buff Banner.[[/note]]

** In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'', with such a [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters large number of characters]] which are largely left for the players to decide what goes on in their minds, players get attached to their team, and when one is suddenly banned, players can feel that it's a personal attack against their friend and partner. Case in point: Mega Kangaskhan, who was liked for her design but was found to be able to power up rapidly due to her signature ability being paired the move [[ExactlywhatItSaysOnTheTin Power-Up Punch]]. Because of this, she was one of the first non-[[OlympusMons legendary]] pokémon banned by Smogon rules in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''. A lot of players who ''were'' glad that she was finally useful in battle were very cheesed off by this news, and the fact that BreakoutCharacter Lucario's Mega form was banned as well later has turned discussions about Smogon rather violent.

*** Also from Smogon ([[WordOfDante Big surprise, huh?]]) is the incredibly divisive controversy on the move Swagger. It was once a legitimate tactic, but as the Prankster ability gives status moves priority and is more widely accessible than ever now, it turns fights against Klefki and Sableye into a gambler's roll - either you kill them with your boosted attack, or they kill ''you'' with their now-1000+ Base Power [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]]. There is no middle ground in these types of matches, so while there are counters, the growing number of proponents of banning the move argue so because it's just so easy-to-take-up, requires little knowledge, relies massively on [[LuckBasedMission luck]], and is just plain ''[[BoringButPractical boring]]''. Defenders of the move cite the fact that "[[FanNickname SwagPlay]]" is ''not'' the only strategy that it's valid for, and as it has been a mainstay in the series for a decade and a half, banning it now would just be [[{{Scrub}} silly and cowardly]].

** In general: {{Spam Attack}}s and {{Ring Out}}s[[note]]Generally considered to be escapable, but very annoying and not very fun.[[/note]]

** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom'' is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (ComicBook/{{Cable}}, SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}}, ComicBook/{{Storm}}, and [[ComicBook/DaysOfFuturePast Sentinel]], in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like [[Characters/XMen80sMembers Psylocke]], Comicbook/{{Cyclops}}, and VideoGame/CaptainCommando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.

** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom'' is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (ComicBook/{{Cable}}, SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}}, ComicBook/{{Storm}}, and [[ComicBook/DaysOfFuturePast Sentinel]], in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like [[Characters/X-Men80sMembers Psylocke]], Comicbook/{{Cyclops}}, and VideoGame/CaptainCommando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.

** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom'' is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel, in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like Psylocke, Cyclops and Captain Commando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.

** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]"Wavedashing" (a physics exploit where one air dodged towards the ground diagonally to slide, which was often faster than running) is often blamed for the [[CreatorBacklash radical changes]] made in ''Brawl'', becoming so omnipresent in TournamentPlay that in many cases nobody moved normally at all. Interestingly, it ''was'' discovered during development, but it was ignored because it was seen as a harmless bug. The eventual discovery that it was [[NotSoWeak not so harmless]] was one factor in the sequel's total crackdown on all forms of advanced play.[[/note]]
** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]The [[CreatorBacklash crackdown on]] and [[ObviousRulePatch removal of]] all forms of advanced play, including {{Combo}}s, was met harshly. The metagame rapidly stagnated, and many bored players either went back to ''Melee'' or [[VideoGame/ProjectM fixed the problems themselves]].[[/note]]
** ''VideoGame/ProjectM''[[note]]A serious BaseBreaker in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' fandom for bringing back ''Melee''[='=]s mechanics, especially among ''Brawl''[='=]s defenders, who accuse it of just being out to ruin what they see as an already-perfect game.[[/note]]

** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]Often considered one of the greatest fighting games ever made, but it still has known flaws, which some suspect led to the [[ExiledFromContinuity removal]] of [[EnsembleDarkhorse fan-favorite]] Mewtwo due to his [[JokeCharacter sheer ironic weakness]]. Fan projects such as ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' and ''VideoGame/SuperSmashFlash2'' use the tiers during development to examine the balance and fix it. However, the tiers tend to change often and drastically, which lead some to strongly suspect that [[MemeticMutation tires don exits]] after all.[[/note]]
** ''Videogame/VirtuaFighter''[[note]]Like any game, Virtua Fighter has character tiers, but proponents of the series often point out that unlike other titles, every character is tournament viable. There are two things worthy to note, though. First, the VF series is not known for having LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, so balancing them is easier than in a game like, say, ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}''. The second is that although VF is possibly the most respected fighting franchise in existence, it has ''never'' enjoyed mainstream appeal. Some gamers have speculated that the lack of a clear God Tier is the cause, with reasons ranging from the series thus having no "villain" to root against or "easy road" to top-level competitive play.[[/note]]
** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom''[[note]] This series is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel, in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like Psylocke, Cyclops and Captain Commando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.[[/note]]
** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline''[[note]]A lot of the iconic live-action canon ships that the hardcore trekkie segment of the playerbase really wants to fly are considered decidedly in the lower tiers. For example, because of the way the {{metagame}} shook out, every variant of the ''Galaxy''-class relies way too much on tanking in a game where offense is considered the best defense in PVE. (The Galaxy Dreadnought Cruiser has the added problem that its WaveMotionGun almost never hits anything and has way too long of a cooldown.) For another, the Jem'Hadar attack ship, rather than the ''Defiant''-class, is generally considered the best escort available to Starfleet. This leads to massive bitching from people who wish their favorite TV-canon ship was better.[[/note]]

[[folder:"Pragmatism" or "Cheap"/"Boring" Tactics]]

*** [[note]]The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; whether one agrees with it or not, Smogon was MisBlamed for this one, as it was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''VideoGame/PokemonStadium'' games).[[/note]]
*** [[note]]Also from Smogon ([[WordOfDante Big surprise, huh?]]) is the incredibly divisive controversy on the move Swagger. It was once a legitimate tactic, but as the Prankster ability gives status moves priority and is more widely accessible than ever now, it turns fights against Klefki and Sableye into a gambler's roll - either you kill them with your boosted attack, or they kill ''you'' with their now-1000+ Base Power [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]]. There is no middle ground in these types of matches, so while there are counters, the growing number of proponents of banning the move argue so because it's just so easy-to-take-up, requires little knowledge, relies massively on [[LuckBasedMission luck]], and is just plain ''[[BoringButPractical boring]]''. Defenders of the move cite the fact that "[[FanNickname SwagPlay]]" is ''not'' the only strategy that it's valid for, and as it has been a mainstay in the series for a decade and a half, banning it now would just be [[{{Scrub}} silly and cowardly]].[[/note]]
** ''[[Videogame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur IV]]''[[note]]Hilde possessed a relatively easy combo in the initial release that could ring out any opponent, even if she hit them dead center of the stage. Hilde quickly became a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] because of how predictable and boring this was, but the tactic was so easy and so effective that within a year, every tournament was at least 70% Hilde. A later patch fixed this, but by then, it was too late.[[/note]]
** ''VideoGame/PlaystationAllStarsBattleRoyale''[[note]][[VideoGame/GodOfWar Kratos]], who was intended to be an easy-to-use SkillGateCharacter, instead turned out to be ''too'' easy to use. Rapidly mashing the Square button would build up his [[ManaMeter AP Meter]] at obscene speeds, leading to a quick FinishingMove. Even though most other {{Game Breaker}}s were patched in later balance updates, Kratos remained completely untouched, even when official support of the game had ended. Even casual players had gotten sick of seeing this abused in every last online match.[[/note]]
** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' [[note]]Battle cloakers, ships that can switch their cloak on while engaged in combat, are reviled by some as being annoying to fight in {{PVP}}, since they tend to use HitAndRunTactics: they can and will cloak and GTFO if they start taking too much damage, then return and decloak for another AlphaStrike. This wasn't so much an issue prior to ''[[ExpansionPack Legacy of Romulus]]'' since only Klingon Birds-of-Prey had battle cloak, but the Romulans have it on every ship they make. Thus there are occasional demands to {{nerf}} the mechanic. Opponents of nerfing point out that there ''are'' counters available (e.g. investing skill points into Ship Sensors allows you to target cloaked ships within a certain radius, with the other guy's Ship Stealth providing an opposing roll), and that there are builds for Starfleet ships that can do the same "GTFO if you're hurting too bad" tactic just as easily with no cloak at all.[[/note]]

** ''Videogame/StreetFighterII''[[note]]After ''Super Turbo HD Remix'' was released, the near-two-decade-old ''Super Turbo'' community lost its collective shit. Some liked the balance retweakings, the updated graphics and music, easier command inputs, and other changes, and declared it the new ''ST'' tournament standard. Others proclaimed it TheAntichrist of fighting games which [[RuinedForever ruined the scene forever]] because the "retweakings" were more like "rebreakings", the new art was [[{{Animesque}} ugly weeaboo crap]], the music was like razor blades directly to the eardrums, and the new command inputs made stuff like the formerly DifficultButAwesome SpinningPiledriver an instant GameBreaker. For years, the ''ST'' community was at war with itself over which version would be played, with many players intentionally sabotaging the other game to promote their own. Few players dedicated enough time to play both, and the new players that ''HDR'' brought in quickly lost interest. For a time, both versions disappeared from the scene (aside from extremely dedicated tournaments). In the end, classic ST won, but you could say it was a PyrrhicVictory.[[/note]]

** The ConsoleWars[[note]]Nintendo has, since the 16-bit era, been consistently laughed at by the larger community and dismissed as "casual" due to their [[AnimationAgeGhetto kiddie-looking games]] as opposed to the [[UltraSuperDeathGoreFestChainsawer3000 gritty, deep realism]] of the opposing consoles (first the Sega Genesis, then the PlayStation line and now the XBox line).[[/note]]

** ''VideoGame/ProjectM''[[note]]''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' had a number of balance issues, which ''Project M'' was dedicated to fixing to create a more lasting game.[[/note]]
** ''[[VideoGame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur V]]''[[note]]Often considered to have the best metagame in the SoulSeries, but is [[ObviousBeta rather blatantly unfinished]] everywhere else. The developers have admitted that only one fourth of the intended game was finished due to ExecutiveMeddling, so the mechanics had to get the most attention and the fastest.[[/note]]

** ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[[note]]Ryu and Ken have consistently been the most selected characters throughout the entire series. There's a reason ''IV'' provides the page image.[[/note]]
** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]The "No items, [[TierInducedScrappy Fox only]], [[AbridgedArenaArray Final Destination]]" {{Meme}} reflects players' annoyance at the fact that, in a game full of wildly diverse characters and stages, only a few are typically chosen.[[/note]]
** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]Smogon rules [[ExploitedTrope take advantage]] of the natural trends to choose more powerful characters, setting up its tier system based on frequency of use. The intention is to allow everyone to choose their [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters personal favorites]] without danger of being [[CurbStompBattle swept]] by a select few who stand out.[[/note]]
** ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' [[note]]ompetitive players sometimes only accept one loadout per character as "the right way" to play a character, and any player using a weapon other than their favored three will get chewed out over chat or mic. In Mann vs. Machine, for example, it's usually recommended that Heavies use the Brass Beast, Medic uses Kritzkrieg, Scout uses Fan O'War, and Soldier uses Buff Banner.[[/note]]

** Arcade games[[note]]This problem is OlderThanTheyThink. Players nowadays are more used to being able to enjoy a game the way they want to, in the privacy of their own homes. Few people below the age of 20 would know what it's like to rush into an arcade to play your favorite game and find it hogged by someone who doesn't play it they way they prefer, whether that meant tourney players who steal their quarters or amateurs that get stuck on the same stage for hours. Someone living in the same household as their foil may have a close idea of how it feels, though.[[/note]]
** The [[MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena MOBA]] genre in general, notably ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' and ''VideoGame/DefenseOfTheAncients''[[note]]Their teamwork based nature causes conflict between people who watch the metagame like a hawk and those who are just there for a good time with their favorite character. it doesn't help that the genre is developing into a serious "E-sport" where thousands of dollars are on the line for those with the skills to win it. People in the queues see pros win that kind of cash and dream of being on that kind of team, woe to anyone who isn't up to their standards.[[/note]]

** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]With such a [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters large number of characters]] which are largely left for the players to decide what goes on in their minds, players get attached to their team, and when one is suddenly banned, players can feel that it's a personal attack against their friend and partner. Case in point: Mega Kangaskhan, who was liked for her design but was found to be able to power up rapidly due to her signature ability being paired the move [[ExactlywhatItSaysOnTheTin Power-Up Punch]]. Because of this, she was one of the first non-[[OlympusMons legendary]] pokémon banned by Smogon rules in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''. A lot of players who ''were'' glad that she was finally useful in battle were very cheesed off by this news, and the fact that BreakoutCharacter Lucario's Mega form was banned as well later has turned discussions about Smogon rather violent.[[/note]]
** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]Meta Knight, who was the last character still able to {{Combo}} after the physics were radically altered due to CreatorBacklash against the competitive community, was the only character in the series' history to be banned from TournamentPlay. The fact that he's an EnsembleDarkhorse and generally a {{Badass}} doesn't help.[[/note]]
** ''[[Videogame/{{Tekken}} Tekken 4]]''[[note]]Everyone came to hate and fear four letters: [=JFLS=]. (Just Frame Laser Scraper, an attack possessed by Jin Kazama that was near-instantaneous, safe, spammable, and came with variations which forced you to guess.) At the height of ''T4'''s popularity, there was an organized movement to either ban Jin or go back to ''Tekken Tag Tournament'' as the marquee ''Tekken'' game. More than a decade later, ''T4'' has been partially VindicatedByHistory, because dedicated players have found new techniques that beat JFLS and open up a new and rewarding MetaGame. To this day, it has a number of dedicated players that not only consider it a great game, but one of the best in the series that was judged too harshly, too quickly.[[/note]]

** "Coaching"[[note]]This has been a hot-button issue in many tournaments, especially those where the play area is cut off from the rest of the venue. Some players like allowing their friends or teammates to come to the stage and tell them things they may have noticed. Other players think this is unfair, because it gives an advantage to players who come with a posse, or that are popular with the crowd. Others still think that taking five minutes between a match to talk unnecessarily slows the game down.[[/note]]
** Lag[[note]]The bane of a professional player's existence. Lag, frame delay, input drops, etc, directly interferes with a match and randomly makes it possible for a well-practiced technique or combo to fail. Thus, many pros either never play online or refuse to take it seriously. However, with the advent of streaming, LAN parties, and online tournaments, these sorts of problems are becoming more and more unavoidable. Players who primarily play online (or can ''only'' play online) don't like having ''their'' skill and hard practice invalidated by pros who say they "only" win because of lag or say things like "Play me in real life". It's true that online and real life are two different arenas, but if you're only good in one and not the other, isn't it ''your'' problem if you're out of your habitat?[[/note]]

** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]Random tripping, which couldn't be disabled (unlike [[MemeticMutation items and stage hazards]]) and left many a player highly vulnerable, turned many matches completely around.[[/note]]
** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]{{Critical Hit}}s often have the potential to destroy an opponent who otherwise would have survived, especially since the metagame is fast-paced enough to where even the strongest are generally knocked out in two hits.[[/note]]

** ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''VideoGame/RockBand'' [[note]]The fandom is split between those who just think it's fun to play the electric guitar and fantasize about rock stardom and those who play for the leaderboards, aiming to hit every note perfect and ender [[SuperMode Star Power]] at exactly the right points.[[/note]]
** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'' [[note]]Do you just go nuts raising [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter adorable]] [[KillerRabbit superpowered]] critters, or do you strive ToBeAMaster?[[/note]]

** ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' [[note]]Fun party game where you beat up colorful characters, or fast-paced all-out battle with deeper potential than Nintendo realizes?[[/note]]

** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; whether one agrees with it or not, Smogon was MisBlamed for this one, as it was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''VideoGame/PokemonStadium'' games).[[/note]]
** Also from Smogon ([[WordOfDante Big surprise, huh?]]) is the incredibly divisive controversy on the move Swagger. It was once a legitimate tactic, but as the Prankster ability gives status moves priority and is more widely accessible than ever now, it turns fights against Klefki and Sableye into a gambler's roll - either you kill them with your boosted attack, or they kill ''you'' with their now-1000+ Base Power [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]]. There is no middle ground in these types of matches, so while there are counters, the growing number of proponents of banning the move argue so because it's just so easy-to-take-up, requires little knowledge, relies massively on [[LuckBasedMission luck]], and is just plain ''[[BoringButPractical boring]]''. Defenders of the move cite the fact that "[[FanNickname SwagPlay]]" is ''not'' the only strategy that it's valid for, and as it has been a mainstay in the series for a decade and a half, banning it now would just be [[{{Scrub}} silly and cowardly]].

** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled; this one was [[OlderThanTheyThink officially introduced by Nintendo themselves]] in the ''PokemonStadium'' games).[[/note]]

** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled).[[/note]]

** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]Random tripping, which couldn't be disabled and left many a player highly vulnerable, turned many matches completely around.[[/note]]

* '''Casual view:''' Their existence causes a massive, [[CantCatchUp impassable]] gap between beginners and experts, not to mention that they're [[GuideDangIt hardly ever mentioned in-game]] and [[SomeDexterityRequired difficult and somewhat ridiculous to pull off]].

Debates on this topic can get [[{{Understatement}} ugly]], fast, especially in cases where the creator of the game [[CreatorBacklash takes sides]]. On ThisVeryWiki, a large number of pages, especially in the YMMV tab, have to be policed closely because those joining the debate on either side have a tendency to degenerate in the [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement 1% who'd love to start a fight]].

[[folder: Advanced Mechanics]]

[[folder: Character Tiers]]

!!!'''[[CombatPragmatist Combat Pragmatism]] / "Cheap"/"Boring" Tactics'''

[[folder: Content]]

[[folder: Out-of-Game Tactics]]

!!!'''[[LuckBasedMission Luck]]'''

[[folder: MST3K Mantra]]

** '''Negative view:''' They're {{Scrappy Mechanic}}s that overcentralize gameplay around defending against one thing. It's generally poor taste to use them. Also they're just plain dull to watch.

** ''Videogame/StreetFighterII''[[note]]After ''Super Turbo HD Remix'' was released, the near-two-decade-old ''Super Turbo'' community lost its collective shit. Some liked the balance retweakings, the updated graphics and music, easier command inputs, and other changes, and declared it the new ''ST'' tournament standard. Others proclaimed it TheAntichrist of fighting games which [[RuinedForever ruined the scene forever]] because the "retweakings" were more like "rebreakings", the new art was [[{{Animesque}} ugly weeaboo crap]], the music was like razor blades directly to the eardrums, and the new command inputs made stuff like the formerly DifficultButAwesome SpinningPiledriver an instant GameBreaker. For years, the ''ST'' community was at war with itself over which version would be played, with many players intentionally sabotaging the other game to promote their own. Few players dedicated enough to play both, and the new players that ''HDR'' brought in quickly lost interest. For a time, both versions disappeared from the scene (aside from extremely dedicated tournaments). In the end, classic ST won, but you could say it was a PyrrhicVictory.[[/note]]

** Arcade games[[note]]This problem is OlderThanTheyThink. Players nowadays are more used to being able to enjoy a game the way they want to, in the privacy of their own homes. Few people below the age of 20 would know what it's like to rush into an arcade to play your favorite game and have find it hogged by someone who doesn't play it they way they prefer, whether that meant tourney players who steal their quarters or amateurs that get stuck on the same stage for hours. Someone living in the same household as their foil may have a close idea of how it feels, though.[[/note]]

[[folder: Outside The Box Tactics]]

* '''Advanced Mechanics:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' A way to add more depth to gameplay once the basics have been mastered, and can make things interesting as ones skill moves higher up.
** '''Casual view:''' Their existence causes a massive, [[CantCatchUp impassable]] gap between beginners and experts, not to mention that they're [[GuideDangIt hardly ever mentioned in-game]] and [[SomeDexterityRequired difficult and somewhat ridiculous to pull off]].
** '''Neutral view:''' Their existence can provide a gradually expanding gameplay experience if ones' skill level begins to stagnate. However, they shouldn't be so [[GameBreaker broken]] as to completely eclipse normal play.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]"Wavedashing" (a physics exploit where one air dodged towards the ground diagonally to slide, which was often faster than running) is often blamed for the [[CreatorBacklash radical changes]] made in ''Brawl'', becoming so omnipresent in TournamentPlay that in many cases nobody moved normally at all. Interestingly, it ''was'' discovered during development, but it was ignored because it was seen as a harmless bug. The eventual discovery that it was [[NotSoWeak not so harmless]] was one factor in the sequel's total crackdown on all forms of advanced play.[[/note]]
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]The [[CreatorBacklash crackdown on]] and [[ObviousRulePatch removal of]] all forms of advanced play, including {{Combo}}s, was met harshly. The metagame rapidly stagnated, and many bored players either went back to ''Melee'' or [[VideoGame/ProjectM fixed the problems themselves]].[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/ProjectM''[[note]]A serious BaseBreaker in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' fandom for bringing back ''Melee''[='=]s mechanics, especially among ''Brawl''[='=]s defenders, who accuse it of just being out to ruin what they see as an already-perfect game.[[/note]]
* '''CharacterTiers:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' An effective measure to predict the outcome of equally matched players. Nothing can have perfect CompetitiveBalance throughout the roster -- it's just not possible.
** '''Casual view:''' An unreliable method of attempting to railroad play, encouraging use of [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome only the stronger characters]]. There is no such thing as "equal skill" -- any player who's talented enough can beat a GameBreaker using a JokeCharacter.
** '''Neutral View:''' Skill is something that cannot be measured in objective terms, because it discounts on-the-spot decision-making and individual growth levels. However, CharacterTiers are useful for understanding the tools each player has at their disposal at any given time. Still, just because a player wins with less tools doesn't mean they're a "better" player.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]Often considered one of the greatest fighting games ever made, but it still has known flaws, which some suspect led to the [[ExiledFromContinuity removal]] of [[EnsembleDarkhorse fan-favorite]] Mewtwo due to his [[JokeCharacter sheer ironic weakness]]. Fan projects such as ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' and ''VideoGame/SuperSmashFlash2'' use the tiers during development to examine the balance and fix it. However, the tiers tend to change often and drastically, which lead some to strongly suspect that [[MemeticMutation tires don exits]] after all.[[/note]]
*** ''Videogame/VirtuaFighter''[[note]]Like any game, Virtua Fighter has character tiers, but proponents of the series often point out that unlike other titles, every character is tournament viable. There are two things worthy to note, though. First, the VF series is not known for having LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, so balancing them is easier than in a game like, say, ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}''. The second is that although VF is possibly the most respected fighting franchise in existence, it has ''never'' enjoyed mainstream appeal. Some gamers have speculated that the lack of a clear God Tier is the cause, with reasons ranging from the series thus having no "villain" to root against or "easy road" to top-level competitive play.[[/note]]
*** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom''[[note]] This series is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel, in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like Psylocke, Cyclops and Captain Commando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline''[[note]]A lot of the iconic live-action canon ships that the hardcore trekkie segment of the playerbase really wants to fly are considered decidedly in the lower tiers. For example, because of the way the {{metagame}} shook out, every variant of the ''Galaxy''-class relies way too much on tanking in a game where offense is considered the best defense in PVE. (The Galaxy Dreadnought Cruiser has the added problem that its WaveMotionGun almost never hits anything and has way too long of a cooldown.) For another, the Jem'Hadar attack ship, rather than the ''Defiant''-class, is generally considered the best escort available to Starfleet. This leads to massive bitching from people who wish their favorite TV-canon ship was better.[[/note]]
* '''[[CombatPragmatist Combat Pragmatism]] / "Cheap"/"Boring" Tactics'''
** ''Note: Whether or not these viewpoints are Hardcore or Casual tends to polarize on a case-by-case basis due to the ambiguous definition of "cheap".''

** '''Positive view:''' Hardcore players who think what they use is fair but what we use isn't are {{Hypocrite}}s. If you don't know how to beat them, just admit it and don't [[{{Scrub}} ruin it for everyone else]].
** '''Neutral view:''' While they are valid tactics, just don't be a dick about relying on them. Shake things up a bit to keep things interesting.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** In general: {{Spam Attack}}s and {{Ring Out}}s[[note]]Generally considered to be escapable, but very annoying and not very fun.[[/note]]
*** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]The word "clause" tends to be a BerserkButton in the fandom due to Smogon passing arbitrary rules, banning things like increasing the Evasion stat (which can turn a match entirely one-sided due to the opponent having to just wish in order to a hit -- see LuckBasedMission.) and putting more than one pokémon on the opposing team to sleep (which, because not switching out while sleeping is suicidal in the fast-paced metagame, can leave the entire team easily crippled).[[/note]]
*** ''[[Videogame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur IV]]''[[note]]Hilde possessed a relatively easy combo in the initial release that could ring out any opponent, even if she hit them dead center of the stage. Hilde quickly became a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] because of how predictable and boring this was, but the tactic was so easy and so effective that within a year, every tournament was at least 70% Hilde. A later patch fixed this, but by then, it was too late.[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/PlaystationAllStarsBattleRoyale''[[note]][[VideoGame/GodOfWar Kratos]], who was intended to be an easy-to-use SkillGateCharacter, instead turned out to be ''too'' easy to use. Rapidly mashing the Square button would build up his [[ManaMeter AP Meter]] at obscene speeds, leading to a quick FinishingMove. Even though most other {{Game Breaker}}s were patched in later balance updates, Kratos remained completely untouched, even when official support of the game had ended. Even casual players had gotten sick of seeing this abused in every last online match.[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' [[note]]Battle cloakers, ships that can switch their cloak on while engaged in combat, are reviled by some as being annoying to fight in {{PVP}}, since they tend to use HitAndRunTactics: they can and will cloak and GTFO if they start taking too much damage, then return and decloak for another AlphaStrike. This wasn't so much an issue prior to ''[[ExpansionPack Legacy of Romulus]]'' since only Klingon Birds-of-Prey had battle cloak, but the Romulans have it on every ship they make. Thus there are occasional demands to {{nerf}} the mechanic. Opponents of nerfing point out that there ''are'' counters available (e.g. investing skill points into Ship Sensors allows you to target cloaked ships within a certain radius, with the other guy's Ship Stealth providing an opposing roll), and that there are builds for Starfleet ships that can do the same "GTFO if you're hurting too bad" tactic just as easily with no cloak at all.[[/note]]
* '''[[DividedWeFall Community Division]]'''
** '''Hardcore View:''' Competitive play inherently relies upon drawing as many people to the game as possible, and it takes lots and lots of hands to make sure tournaments are well-organized, well-regulated, and well-marketed. As such, trying to fragment the community to [[StartMyOwn promote your own game, genre or play style]] above others hurts everybody, because in the end, nobody gets what they want.
** '''Casual View:''' The above is easy to say when you're a tourney player and thus get to control what rules are standardized, what games are streamed, and what tactics everyone uses. For people who don't agree with you, it's a constant struggle to even be acknowledged. Especially when the hardcore crowd mocks other games as being [[NoTrueScotsman not "competitive"]]. It's all well and good to say that everyone should hop on the same bandwagon, apparently so long as it's ''your'' bandwagon.
** '''Neutral View:''' Why is any of that stuff important anyway? Professional sports exists alongside college sports and amateur sports, so who cares if everyone plays the same way you do, or if your game isn't getting mainstream attention? Trying to force everyone to do things your way, or else, only makes outsiders look at both sides with revulsion and turns them off from participating in ''either'' side.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''Videogame/StreetFighterII''[[note]]After ''Super Turbo HD Remix'' was released, the near-two-decade-old ''Super Turbo'' community lost its collective shit. Some liked the balance retweakings, the updated graphics and music, easier command inputs, and other changes, and declared it the new ''ST'' tournament standard. Others proclaimed it TheAntichrist of fighting games which [[RuinedForever ruined the scene forever]] because the "retweakings" were more like "rebreakings", the new art was [[{{Animesque}} ugly weeaboo crap]], the music was like razor blades directly to the eardrums, and the new command inputs made stuff like the formerly DifficultButAwesome SpinningPiledriver an instant GameBreaker. For years, the ''ST'' community was at war with itself over which version would be played, with many players intentionally sabotaging the other game to promote their own. Few players dedicated enough to play both, and the new players that ''HDR'' brought in quickly lost interest. For a time, both versions disappeared from the scene (aside from extremely dedicated tournaments). In the end, classic ST won, but you could say it was a PyrrhicVictory.[[/note]]
* '''Content:'''
** ''Note: It's debatable whether or not this effects either side at all and typically relies on different definitions of "Hardcore" and "Casual", although it's still often dragged into debates on the topic.''
** '''Hardcore view:''' If the game's afraid of the MoralGuardians, how can we have expect the gameplay to be any better?
** '''Casual view:''' If development didn't focus on spending so much time [[RatedMForMoney goring out profits]], then maybe they actually ''could'' focus on gameplay!
** '''Neutral view:''' YouKeepUsingThatWord. I don't think it means what you think it means.
** '''Notable Cases:'''
*** The ConsoleWars[[note]]Nintendo has, since the 16-bit era, been consistently laughed at by the larger community and dismissed as "casual" due to their [[AnimationAgeGhetto kiddie-looking games]] as opposed to the [[UltraSuperDeathGoreFestChainsawer3000 gritty, deep realism]] of the opposing consoles (first the Sega Genesis, then the PlayStation line and now the XBox line).[[/note]]
* '''CompetitiveBalance:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' An essential focus that prevents {{Railroading}} the metagame if paid proper attention to. A proper balance can help vastly improve the shelf life of a game and can make TournamentPlay pleasantly variable.
** '''Casual view:''' An unimportant and ultimately pointless focus since no matter how balanced a roster is, players will [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome just choose #1 on the Tier List anyway]]. Additionally, a focus on mechanics that players [[MST3KMantra really look too much into]] can be a detriment to other areas of the game, such as story or customization.
** '''Neutral View:''' While a complete lack of balance can make gameplay shallow and quickly [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome stale]], focusing too much on it does lead to other areas suffering. The [[ChristmasRushed development deadline]] means development time is [[EquivalentExchange zero-sum]] -- any attention given to one area takes away from another.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''VideoGame/ProjectM''[[note]]''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' had a number of balance issues, which ''Project M'' was dedicated to fixing to create a more lasting game.[[/note]]
*** ''[[VideoGame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur V]]''[[note]]Often considered to have the best metagame in the SoulSeries, but is [[ObviousBeta rather blatantly unfinished]] everywhere else. The developers have admitted that only one fourth of the intended game was finished due to ExecutiveMeddling, so the mechanics had to get the most attention and the fastest.[[/note]]
* '''ComplacentGamingSyndrome:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' A natural consequence of an Arms Race metagame is that players will naturally gravitate towards the stronger options. If players want to choose weaker things for the sake of variety, it's their loss.
** '''Casual view:''' A result of manipulation via the use of arbitrary CharacterTiers, whether players admit it or not and whether or not they actually know how to use the "stronger options". Can also stagnate casual communities due to players repeatedly just glancing at the tier list and choosing #1, thinking they'll be unbeatable because of it.
** '''Neutral View:''' While it's generally a very bad thing, it really can't be avoided due to natural gravitation towards stronger options.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[[note]]Ryu and Ken have consistently been the most selected characters throughout the entire series. There's a reason ''IV'' provides the page image.[[/note]]
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]The "No items, [[TierInducedScrappy Fox only]], [[AbridgedArenaArray Final Destination]]" {{Meme}} reflects players' annoyance at the fact that, in a game full of wildly diverse characters and stages, only a few are typically chosen.[[/note]]
*** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]Smogon rules [[ExploitedTrope take advantage]] of the natural trends to choose more powerful characters, setting up its tier system based on frequency of use. The intention is to allow everyone to choose their [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters personal favorites]] without danger of being [[CurbStompBattle swept]] by a select few who stand out.[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' [[note]]ompetitive players sometimes only accept one loadout per character as "the right way" to play a character, and any player using a weapon other than their favored three will get chewed out over chat or mic. In Mann vs. Machine, for example, it's usually recommended that Heavies use the Brass Beast, Medic uses Kritzkrieg, Scout uses Fan O'War, and Soldier uses Buff Banner.[[note]]
* '''[[NotBigEnoughForTheTwoOfUs Direct Playstyle Conflict]]:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' If a casual player is on my team, then [[DrunkenBoxing there's no telling what that idiot will do]]. I can't plan around them! No matter how good I am, I'll [[CurbStompBattle lose for sure]] if they're allowed in the server, ''especially'' on ''[[TheMillstone my]]'' [[TheMillstone side]]!
** '''Casual view:''' I can't enjoy multiplayer on ''[[AudienceAlienatingPremise anything]]'' because you have to be {{Griefer}}s everywhere I turn, making me [[CurbStompBattle lose every match in less than fifteen seconds]] with those inhuman reflexes that you could only possibly have developed in a [[BasementDweller basement]]. Get out, and let ''me'' have some fun for once!
** '''Neutral View:''' You're ''both'' making multiplayer completely inaccessible. You're either [[CurbStompBattle inescapable]] or [[ItsEasySoItSucks laughable]], and ''neither'' is very fun to play with, so... ScrewThisImOuttaHere.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** Arcade games[[note]]This problem is OlderThanTheyThink. Players nowadays are more used to being able to enjoy a game the way they want to, in the privacy of their own homes. Few people below the age of 20 would know what it's like to rush into an arcade to play your favorite game and have find it hogged by someone who doesn't play it they way they prefer, whether that meant tourney players who steal their quarters or amateurs that get stuck on the same stage for hours. Someone living in the same household as their foil may have a close idea of how it feels, though.[[/note]]
*** The [[MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena MOBA]] genre in general, notably ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' and ''VideoGame/DefenseOfTheAncients''[[note]]Their teamwork based nature causes conflict between people who watch the metagame like a hawk and those who are just there for a good time with their favorite character. it doesn't help that the genre is developing into a serious "E-sport" where thousands of dollars are on the line for those with the skills to win it. People in the queues see pros win that kind of cash and dream of being on that kind of team, woe to anyone who isn't up to their standards.[[/note]]
* '''GameBreaker:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' Sometimes the developers have seriously overlooked something which can overcentralize the metagame around defending against one specific aspect. Bans are essential when this is the case.
** '''Casual view:''' Players should have the right to choose who they want. If the developers have said it was okay to use them, then it's okay to use them.
** '''Neutral view:''' People will either want to play the game or they won't, so as a general rule, don't try to convince other people to think like you do. If you want to be a competitive player in a game where one character gives an unfair advantage, then work on being the best possible player with that character, but be fully prepared to be a NormalFishInATinyPond in all other circles for it. If you don't want to be competitive (or don't want to use said character), then don't, and find challenge/fun in doing the best you can with limited tools. If you don't want to do either, [[DontLikeDontRead don't play the game, and don't ruin it for people that do]].
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]With such a [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters large number of characters]] which are largely left for the players to decide what goes on in their minds, players get attached to their team, and when one is suddenly banned, players can feel that it's a personal attack against their friend and partner. Case in point: Mega Kangaskhan, who was liked for her design but was found to be able to power up rapidly due to her signature ability being paired the move [[ExactlywhatItSaysOnTheTin Power-Up Punch]]. Because of this, she was one of the first non-[[OlympusMons legendary]] pokémon banned by Smogon rules in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''. A lot of players who ''were'' glad that she was finally useful in battle were very cheesed off by this news, and the fact that BreakoutCharacter Lucario's Mega form was banned as well later has turned discussions about Smogon rather violent.[[/note]]
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]Meta Knight, who was the last character still able to {{Combo}} after the physics were radically altered due to CreatorBacklash against the competitive community, was the only character in the series' history to be banned from TournamentPlay. The fact that he's an EnsembleDarkhorse and generally a {{Badass}} doesn't help.[[/note]]
*** ''[[Videogame/{{Tekken}} Tekken 4]]''[[note]]Everyone came to hate and fear four letters: [=JFLS=]. (Just Frame Laser Scraper, an attack possessed by Jin Kazama that was near-instantaneous, safe, spammable, and came with variations which forced you to guess.) At the height of ''T4'''s popularity, there was an organized movement to either ban Jin or go back to ''Tekken Tag Tournament'' as the marquee ''Tekken'' game. More than a decade later, ''T4'' has been partially VindicatedByHistory, because dedicated players have found new techniques that beat JFLS and open up a new and rewarding MetaGame. To this day, it has a number of dedicated players that not only consider it a great game, but one of the best in the series that was judged too harshly, too quickly.[[/note]]
* '''Out-of-Game Tactics'''
** '''Hardcore View:''' Trash-talking, being coached by other players, watching the other player's screen, listening for button inputs, stalling between rounds to break the opponent's flow, and other things like that, are all considered valid tactics. You're not directly interfering with the player's ability to play, and smart players know how to counter this (such as using a different screen, using quieter buttons, creating "dummy" buttons in the Controls menu, and wearing headphones to drown out background noise. As always, there's ways around everything, so if you want to win, learn to deal with it.
** '''Casual View:''' But what does any of that have to do with ''skill?!'' Sure, some of that stuff is ambiguous, but if stalling the game and deliberately ruining someone's momentum is valid, then what about intentionally inducing lag or otherwise dropping the framerate to screw up inputs? What about players who take up too much space in the play area so that you have no room to comfortably use your controller or joystick? And why is being coached by other players during a match okay? If you didn't prepare enough for the match beforehand, shouldn't that be on ''you?''
** '''Neutral View:''' Just compromise. If you think watching another player's screen is vastly unfair, but don't feel that strongly about coaching, then why not ban the former and allow the latter? Or, at the very least, allow some things but create limitations where possible so that fun, exciting matches stay the norm and the emphasis is squarely on in-game skill and decision-making.
** '''Notable Cases:'''
*** "Coaching"[[note]]This has been a hot-button issue in many tournaments, especially those where the play area is cut off from the rest of the venue. Some players like allowing their friends or teammates to come to the stage and tell them things they may have noticed. Other players think this is unfair, because it gives an advantage to players who come with a posse, or that are popular with the crowd. Others still think that taking five minutes between a match to talk unnecessarily slows the game down.[[/note]]
*** Lag[[note]]The bane of a professional player's existence. Lag, frame delay, input drops, etc, directly interferes with a match and randomly makes it possible for a well-practiced technique or combo to fail. Thus, many pros either never play online or refuse to take it seriously. However, with the advent of streaming, LAN parties, and online tournaments, these sorts of problems are becoming more and more unavoidable. Players who primarily play online (or can ''only'' play online) don't like having ''their'' skill and hard practice invalidated by pros who say they "only" win because of lag or say things like "Play me in real life". It's true that online and real life are two different arenas, but if you're only good in one and not the other, isn't it ''your'' problem if you're out of your habitat?[[/note]]
* '''LuckBasedMission:'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' Affects gameplay negatively by distracting and can turn the match around with a lucky roll of the dice.
** '''Casual view:''' Can add variety to a stale metagame, along with [[ThrowTheDogABone preventing]] one skilled player from [[CurbStompBattle wiping the floor with all others every time]].
** '''Neutral view:''' "Luck" is relative. It's a skill in itself to take advantage of good luck or to minimize bad luck. Ask anyone who's ever played poker, or been in something as chaotic as a gunfight. And if even ''that'' isn't possible, then you should learn how to KnowWhenToFoldEm.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''[[note]]Random tripping, which couldn't be disabled and left many a player highly vulnerable, turned many matches completely around.[[/note]]
*** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[[note]]{{Critical Hit}}s often have the potential to destroy an opponent who otherwise would have survived, especially since the metagame is fast-paced enough to where even the strongest are generally knocked out in two hits.[[/note]]
* '''MST3KMantra'''
** '''Hardcore view:''' I know it's a game, but this is how I play, this is how I get immersed. I take the engine by the reins and push it to its limits, and you have no idea how thrilling it is. It may not look like much, but trust me, there's nothing more fun than squeezing all you can out of a game.
** '''Casual view:''' You're taking this way too seriously, and it's ruining it for the rest of us who want to ''actually play the game''.
** '''Neutral view:''' You play what you like and I play what I like. You're ''both'' assholes.
** '''Notable cases:'''
*** ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''VideoGame/RockBand'' [[note]]The fandom is split between those who just think it's fun to play the electric guitar and fantasize about rock stardom and those who play for the leaderboards, aiming to hit every note perfect and ender [[SuperMode Star Power]] at exactly the right points.[[/note]]
*** ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' [[DuelingGames and]] ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'' [[note]]Do you just go nuts raising [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter adorable]] [[KillerRabbit superpowered]] critters, or do you strive ToBeAMaster?[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' [[note]]Do you strive to boldly go where no man has gone before, immersing yourself in the interstellar world you've grown to love, or do you seek to conquer the galaxy?[[/note]]
*** ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' [[note]]Fun party game where you beat up colorful characters, or fast-paced all-out battle with deeper potential than Nintendo realizes?[[/note]]

*** "Coaching"[note] This has been a hot-button issue in many tournaments, especially those where the play area is cut off from the rest of the venue. Some players like allowing their friends or teammates to come to the stage and tell them things they may have noticed. Other players think this is unfair, because it gives an advantage to players who come with a posse, or that are popular with the crowd. Others still think that taking five minutes between a match to talk unnecessarily slows the game down.
*** Lag[note]The bane of a professional player's existence. Lag, frame delay, input drops, etc, directly interferes with a match and randomly makes it possible for a well-practiced technique or combo to fail. Thus, many pros either never play online or refuse to take it seriously. However, with the advent of streaming, LAN parties, and online tournaments, these sorts of problems are becoming more and more unavoidable. Players who primarily play online (or can ''only'' play online) don't like having ''their'' skill and hard practice invalidated by pros who say they "only" win because of lag or say things like "Play me in real life". It's true that online and real life are two different arenas, but if you're only good in one and not the other, isn't it ''your'' problem if you're out of your habitat?[[/note]]

*** Arcade games[[note]]This problem is OlderThanTheyThink. Players nowadays are more used to being able to enjoy a game the way they want to, in the privacy of their own homes. Few people below the age of 20 would know what it's like to rush into an arcade to play your favorite game and have find it hogged by someone who doesn't play it they way they prefer, whether that meant tourney players who steal their quarters or amateurs that get stuck on the same stage for hours. Someone living in the same household as their foil may have a close idea of how it feels, though.[[note]]
*** The [[MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena MOBA]] genre in general, notably ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' and ''VideoGame/DefenseOfTheAncients''[[note]]Their teamwork based nature causes conflict between people who watch the metagame like a hawk and those who are just there for a good time with their favorite character. it doesn't help that the genre is developing into a serious "E-sport" where thousands of dollars are on the line for those with the skills to win it. People in the queues see pros win that kind of cash and dream of being on that kind of team, woe to anyone who isn't up to their standards.[[note]]

*** The ConsoleWars[[note]]Nintendo has, since the 16-bit era, been consistently laughed at by the larger community and dismissed as "casual" due to their [[AnimationAgeGhetto kiddie-looking games]] as opposed to the [[UltraSuperDeathGoreFestChainsawer3000 gritty, deep realism]] of the opposing consoles (first the Sega Genesis, then the PlayStation line and now the XBox line).[[note]]

*** ''[[Videogame/SoulSeries Soul Calibur IV]]''[[note]]Hilde possessed a relatively easy combo in the initial release that could ring out any opponent, even if she hit them dead center of the stage. Hilde quickly became a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] because of how predictable and boring this was, but the tactic was so easy and so effective that within a year, every tournament was at least 70% Hilde. A later patch fixed this, but by then, it was too late.[[note]]
*** ''VideoGame/PlaystationAllStarsBattleRoyale''[[note]][[VideoGame/GodOfWar Kratos]], who was intended to be an easy-to-use SkillGateCharacter, instead turned out to be ''too'' easy to use. Rapidly mashing the Square button would build up his [[ManaMeter AP Meter]] at obscene speeds, leading to a quick FinishingMove. Even though most other {{Game Breaker}}s were patched in later balance updates, Kratos remained completely untouched, even when official support of the game had ended. Even casual players had gotten sick of seeing this abused in every last online match.[[note]]

*** ''Videogame/VirtuaFighter''[=[note]=]Like any game, Virtua Fighter has character tiers, but proponents of the series often point out that unlike other titles, every character is tournament viable. There are two things worthy to note, though. First, the VF series is not known for having LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, so balancing them is easier than in a game like, say, ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}''. The second is that although VF is possibly the most respected fighting franchise in existence, it has ''never'' enjoyed mainstream appeal. Some gamers have speculated that the lack of a clear God Tier is the cause, with reasons ranging from the series thus having no "villain" to root against or "easy road" to top-level competitive play.[=[/note]=]
*** ''Franchise/MarvelVsCapcom''[=[note]=] This series is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned God Tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is ''Videogame/{{Marvel Vs Capcom 2}}'', where in a title with over 40 playable characters, only '''four''' (Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel, in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like Psylocke, Cyclops and Captain Commando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the ''Marvel 2'' scene for more than ten years.[=[/note]=]

*** ''VideoGame/{{MUGEN}}'' [[note]]Due to the potential for abuse in the engine, the metagame primarily consists of creating characters [[SerialEscalation more invincible than the last]] moreso than actually fighting, even to the point that these characters delete the opponent's file and only allow the "Win" flag if their name's in it using exterior executables. Even in metagames where program-altering and invincibility is banned, the game is still dominated by just one class of characters -- those designed with flowing and devastating combos, such as Reubenkee's Dragon Claw, Teaf/Tifu's PettingZooPeople, and, notoriously towards the height of the fandom, Judgespear's [[WesternAnimaton/TheSimpsons Homer Simpson]] and [[WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy Peter Griffin]] -- despite the roster consisting of [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters literally thousands]].[[/note]]

*** ''[[VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''[[note]]"Wavedashing" (a physics exploit where one air dodged towards the ground diagonally to slide, which was often faster than running) is often blamed for the [[CreatorBacklash radical changes]] made in ''Brawl'', becoming so omnipresent in TournamentPlay that in many cases nobody moved normally at all. Interestingly, it ''was'' discovered during development, but it was ignored because it was seen as a harmless bug. The eventual discovery that it was [[NotSoWeak not so harmless]] was one factor in the sequel's total crackdown on all forms of advanced play.[[note]]

[[caption-width-right:350:'''(Image caption:''' Top: Walking -- How the game intends players to move.\\
Bottom: Wavedashing -- A form of movement that's faster and can be chained into other tactics.\\
What's more fair; doing what most players will be doing, or using the reflexes you've developed to your advantage? Choose wisely -- [[SeriousBusiness it could save your life someday]].''')''']]

-->--'''Creator/DavidWilliamsonShaffer'''