History Main / BlackAndWhiteMorality

20th Jan '17 2:40:07 AM BigKlingy
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** In [[VideoGame/FireEmblem Tellius]] while Elincia is good, and Mad King Ashnard is evil. [[spoiler: His steed isn't evil, just {{Brainwashed}}.]] But then there's Naesala, who's more morally ambiguous, as well as several Daein commanders who fight for Ashnard [[LawfulNeutral more out of a sense of duty for their nation then being outright evil.]]

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** In [[VideoGame/FireEmblem Tellius]] while Elincia is good, and Mad King Ashnard is evil. [[spoiler: His steed isn't evil, just {{Brainwashed}}.]] But then there's Naesala, who's more morally ambiguous, as well as several Daein commanders who fight for Ashnard [[LawfulNeutral more out of a sense of duty for their nation then being outright evil.]]]] The sequel muddies this even further: Begnion, who helped Crimea fight Daein in the first game, turn out to be just as corrupt, and the initial protagonists are heroic Daeins. And while half the Begnion Senate are evil assholes, Hetzel is just a terrified old man ([[PetTheDog who saved Rafiel's life in the past]]) and Oliver has BlueAndOrangeMorality. Meanwhile, Crimea isn't as pure as it seemed in the first game either, with many nobles ''not'' happy at Elincia becoming queen.
8th Jan '17 11:20:39 PM infernape612
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* In ''Fanfiction/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', this is subverted - Most of the ponies are adamant about the fact that Chrysalis is evil incarnate and they themselves are the defenders of all things harmonious. Suffice to say, the humans (Chrysalis' lawyer Estermann in particular) are quick to contest this.

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* In ''Fanfiction/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', ''Fanfic/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', this is subverted - Most of the ponies are adamant about the fact that Chrysalis is evil incarnate and they themselves are the defenders of all things harmonious. Suffice to say, the humans (Chrysalis' lawyer Estermann in particular) are quick to contest this.
8th Jan '17 11:18:35 PM infernape612
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** Usually adverted from Sonic Adventure onwards. [[VideoGame/SonicAdventure Chaos]] is a legendary beast who caused the destruction of a whole ancient civilization, and almost that of the modern world as well, but [[spoiler: he's actually the protector of the Chao and guardian of the Chaos Emeralds and has no evil on his heart, [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge he just got consumed by rage when an ancient tribe hurt the creatures he was defending in its lust for power]]]]. [[VideoGame/SonicAdventure2 Gerald Robotnik]] [[spoiler:programmed the ARK to destroy the Earth and made a deal with Black Doom that would result in humanity being attacked and conquered by an alien race, but it's revealed that he wanted to help everyone by creating the Ultimate Life Form and just went insane when his beloved granddaughter got killed by the government's army, and that he actually created the Eclipse Cannon to warrant that humanity had a way of stopping the Black Arms when they arrived and attacked.]] [[VideoGame/SonicTheHedgehog2006 Solaris]] seeks to destroy time and space, but [[spoiler:he's actually a good deity who went insane after being performed experiments on]]. [[VideoGame/SonicBattle Emerl]] is a robot [[spoiler:designed as a weapon of mass destruction]], but gains a kind and heroic personality through the game as a result of hanging around Sonic and his friends and copying their traits, and keeps this one until the end, even after his programming makes him go berserk. Merlina, who is Sonic's guide and ally in ''VideoGame/SonicAndTheBlackKnight'', [[spoiler:is revealed to be the BigBad at the end, but her intentions and motivations aren't evil.]]

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** Usually adverted averted from Sonic Adventure onwards.''Sonic Adventure'' onward. [[VideoGame/SonicAdventure Chaos]] is a legendary beast who caused the destruction of a whole ancient civilization, and almost that of the modern world as well, but [[spoiler: he's actually the protector of the Chao and guardian of the Chaos Emeralds and has no evil on his heart, [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge he just got consumed by rage when an ancient tribe hurt the creatures he was defending in its lust for power]]]]. [[VideoGame/SonicAdventure2 Gerald Robotnik]] [[spoiler:programmed the ARK to destroy the Earth and made a deal with Black Doom that would result in humanity being attacked and conquered by an alien race, but it's revealed that he wanted to help everyone by creating the Ultimate Life Form and just went insane when his beloved granddaughter got killed by the government's army, and that he actually created the Eclipse Cannon to warrant that humanity had a way of stopping the Black Arms when they arrived and attacked.]] [[VideoGame/SonicTheHedgehog2006 Solaris]] seeks to destroy time and space, but [[spoiler:he's actually a good deity who went insane after being performed experiments experimented on]]. [[VideoGame/SonicBattle Emerl]] is a robot [[spoiler:designed as a weapon of mass destruction]], but gains a kind and heroic personality through the game as a result of hanging around Sonic and his friends and copying their traits, and keeps this one until the end, even after his programming makes him go berserk. Merlina, who is Sonic's guide and ally in ''VideoGame/SonicAndTheBlackKnight'', [[spoiler:is revealed to be the BigBad at the end, but her intentions and motivations aren't evil.]]
31st Dec '16 10:36:50 AM nombretomado
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** Playable races (such as humans, elves, dwarves, and such) tend to be good, while orcs, goblins, and other 'monstrous' humanoids tend to be AlwaysChaoticEvil. There are plenty of exceptions, though, with a number of villains from PC races showing up from time to time. The occasional good orc or goblin may make an appearance as well (especially in ''{{Eberron}}'', which subverts a lot of the common expectations about alignment and race).

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** Playable races (such as humans, elves, dwarves, and such) tend to be good, while orcs, goblins, and other 'monstrous' humanoids tend to be AlwaysChaoticEvil. There are plenty of exceptions, though, with a number of villains from PC races showing up from time to time. The occasional good orc or goblin may make an appearance as well (especially in ''{{Eberron}}'', ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'', which subverts a lot of the common expectations about alignment and race).
22nd Dec '16 10:40:24 AM Rhodes7
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* William S. Lind, author of ''Literature/{{Victoria}}'' seems to think this way. You either support Retroculture and the Ten Commandments, or you're a 'Cultural Marxist' out to tear down Western Civilization from within.
15th Dec '16 5:28:54 PM Monsund
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** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' play this straight more then any other game in the franchise; the Halidom of Ylisse worships Naga, a beautiful female dragon from an AlwaysLawfulGood race, and is presented as pure and good while the desert theocracy Plegia is led by the Grimleal, who worships Grima, an ugly male dragon from an AlwaysChaoticEVilRace and is portrayed as utterly evil. An attempt is made early on to add some grey by saying Emmeryn's predecessor had made war on the Grimleal, however this [[AbortedArc is dropped]], all Grimleal in the game are portrayed as [[CardCarryingVillain Badguys who like being bad]] with no [[ForTheEvulz real motive]].
** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' also plays this straight for the most part, though like ''[[Videogame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' there are exceptions. The Kingdom of Hoshido is a prosperous nation that only wants to live in peace, and the Kingdom of Nohr by contrast is a Mordor esque country with bad crops and is trying to invade Hoshido with little to no provocation. This even extends to the main rulers of those kingdoms; with Queen Mikoto of Hoshido being seen as an icon of peace, serenity, and saint like goodness in general, and King Garon of Nohr being an ObviouslyEvil warmongering tyrant who isn't afraid to destroy anything that gets in his way. It's rather easy to see which kingdom is supposed to be the one in the right [[spoiler: (indeed Garon is an antagonist in all routes in some form or another, however the real Garon is long dead at this point, and the Garon you deal with throughout the story is actually a familiar possessing his corpse trying to carry out the plan of the real BigBad)]]. Garon's children on the other hand, your adopted siblings, are all portrayed sympathetically no matter which route you choose, and obviously still care for your character even when you fight against them. In addition many of their retainers, and other Nohrian units for that matter, are more or less all portrayed as decent people who are simply fighting for those they pledged their loyalty to, with their support conversations in the ''Conquest'' route giving more depth to their backstory and motivations.

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** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' play this straight more then any other game in the franchise; the Halidom of Ylisse worships Naga, a beautiful female dragon from an AlwaysLawfulGood race, and is presented as pure and good while the desert theocracy Plegia is led by the Grimleal, who worships Grima, an ugly male dragon from an AlwaysChaoticEVilRace AlwaysChaoticEvil Race and is portrayed as utterly evil. An attempt is made early on to add some grey by saying Emmeryn's predecessor had made war on the Grimleal, however this [[AbortedArc is dropped]], all Grimleal in the game never mention this, and are simply portrayed as [[CardCarryingVillain Badguys who like being bad]] with no [[ForTheEvulz real motive]].
** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' also plays this straight for the most part, though like ''[[Videogame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' there are exceptions.with more exceptions then its predecessor. The Kingdom of Hoshido is a prosperous nation that only wants to live in peace, and the Kingdom of Nohr by contrast is a Mordor esque country with bad crops and is trying to invade Hoshido with little to no provocation. This even extends to the main rulers of those kingdoms; with Queen Mikoto of Hoshido being seen as an icon of peace, serenity, and saint like goodness in general, and King Garon of Nohr being an ObviouslyEvil warmongering tyrant who isn't afraid to destroy anything that gets in his way. It's rather easy to see which kingdom is supposed to be the one in the right [[spoiler: (indeed Garon is an antagonist in all routes in some form or another, however the real Garon is long dead at this point, and the Garon you deal with throughout the story is actually a familiar possessing his corpse trying to carry out the plan of the real BigBad)]]. Garon's children on the other hand, your adopted siblings, are all portrayed sympathetically no matter which route you choose, and obviously still care for your character even when you fight against them. In addition many of their retainers, and other Nohrian units for that matter, are more or less all portrayed as decent people who are simply fighting for those they pledged their loyalty to, with their support conversations in the ''Conquest'' route giving more depth to their backstory and motivations.
10th Dec '16 9:28:24 AM Doug86
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* In ''Webcomic//GameOverTalesCrouchingOstrichHiddenVulture'', the ninjas' only aim is to kill the "dragon rider", whose main reason to kill the ninjas is to not die.

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* In ''Webcomic//GameOverTalesCrouchingOstrichHiddenVulture'', ''Webcomic/GameOverTalesCrouchingOstrichHiddenVulture'', the ninjas' only aim is to kill the "dragon rider", whose main reason to kill the ninjas is to not die.



** Another example is the smoking episode "Butt Out", in which tobacco companies are portrayed as affable, proud of tobacco's role in building America, careful to ensure that customers are fully warned about the dangers of smoking, and perfectly fine with not living to old age. The anti-smoking activists are greasy, [[Literature/LordOfTheRings Wormtongue-esque]] characters who regularly make up evidence against smoking, try to murder a ten year old boy in the name of some of said evidence, and are overly rude to smokers, even when they're in a place where they're completely in their rights to smoke.

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** Another example is the smoking episode "Butt Out", in which tobacco companies are portrayed as affable, proud of tobacco's role in building America, careful to ensure that customers are fully warned about the dangers of smoking, and perfectly fine with not living to old age. The anti-smoking activists are greasy, [[Literature/LordOfTheRings [[Literature/TheLordOfTheRings Wormtongue-esque]] characters who regularly make up evidence against smoking, try to murder a ten year old boy in the name of some of said evidence, and are overly rude to smokers, even when they're in a place where they're completely in their rights to smoke.
8th Dec '16 4:54:39 PM DustSnitch
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** Averted in ''Literature/TheChildrenOfHurin''. Túrin is well meaning but also a morally ambiguous Jerkass who blows over the MoralEventHorizon when he murders a lame man in cold blood, his Lancer Androg is a serial rapist and murderer and the group's traitor, Mîm the Dwarf is a Woobie AntiVillain whose actions are motivated by the relentless persecution his people suffered from the Elves as well as Androg's cruelty. Even after his betrayal he inists that Túrin be released unharmed.

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** Averted in ''Literature/TheChildrenOfHurin''. Túrin is well meaning but also a morally ambiguous Jerkass who blows over the MoralEventHorizon when he murders a lame man in cold blood, his Lancer Androg is a serial rapist and murderer and the group's traitor, Mîm the Dwarf is a Woobie sympathetic AntiVillain whose actions are motivated by the relentless persecution his people suffered from the Elves as well as Androg's cruelty. Even after his betrayal he inists that Túrin be released unharmed.



*** Though Psaro could be seen as a Woobie in some ways, as the [[spoiler: death of his girlfriend drove him beyond insanity, causing him to force himself to evolve into a demonic monster who at that point doesn't even remember who his girlfriend is, and the only thing he knows in life is to destroy all humans for what they did to him, despite he doesn't even remember what that was, all he knows is that is his goal]]

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*** Though Psaro could be seen as a Woobie sympathetic in some ways, as the [[spoiler: death of his girlfriend drove him beyond insanity, causing him to force himself to evolve into a demonic monster who at that point doesn't even remember who his girlfriend is, and the only thing he knows in life is to destroy all humans for what they did to him, despite he doesn't even remember what that was, all he knows is that is his goal]]



** Played straight in the main series; in both ''VideoGame/SuperMarioGalaxy'' games Bowser is as one-dimensionally megalomaniacal as ever. Probably because their one attempt at giving him more "complexity" was ''VideoGame/SuperMarioSunshine'', which included {{narm}}y voice acting ([[MemeticMutation "How dare you disturb my family vacation!"]]) and introduced TheScrappy, Bowser Jr.

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** Played straight in the main series; in both ''VideoGame/SuperMarioGalaxy'' games Bowser is as one-dimensionally megalomaniacal as ever. Probably because their one attempt at giving him more "complexity" was ''VideoGame/SuperMarioSunshine'', which included {{narm}}y voice acting ([[MemeticMutation "How dare you disturb my family vacation!"]]) and introduced TheScrappy, introduced, Bowser Jr.
6th Dec '16 6:49:21 AM Monsund
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** As pictured above, [[VideoGame/FireEmblem Queen Elincia]] and the Herons are good, but Mad King Ashnard is evil. [[spoiler: However, his steed isn't evil, just {{Brainwashed}}.]] But then there's Naesala, who's more morally ambiguous, as well as several Daein commanders who fight for Ashnard [[LawfulNeutral more out of a sense of duty for their nation then being outright evil.]]
** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' mostly play this straight; the Halidom of Ylisse worships Naga and is presented as pure and good while the desert theocracy Plegia worships Grima and is portrayed as dark and evil. But there are a few mentions, Emmeryn's predecessor had brutally oppressed Plegia in the past, so relations between the two countries were naturally sour by the time she took over, and according to one conversation speculates that many members of the Grima cult treat it like a normal religion. However none of this is really seen ingame, every Grima cultist member encountered is a Card-Carrying Villain for example.

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** As pictured above, In [[VideoGame/FireEmblem Queen Elincia]] and the Herons are Tellius]] while Elincia is good, but and Mad King Ashnard is evil. [[spoiler: However, his His steed isn't evil, just {{Brainwashed}}.]] But then there's Naesala, who's more morally ambiguous, as well as several Daein commanders who fight for Ashnard [[LawfulNeutral more out of a sense of duty for their nation then being outright evil.]]
** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' mostly play this straight; straight more then any other game in the franchise; the Halidom of Ylisse worships Naga Naga, a beautiful female dragon from an AlwaysLawfulGood race, and is presented as pure and good while the desert theocracy Plegia is led by the Grimleal, who worships Grima Grima, an ugly male dragon from an AlwaysChaoticEVilRace and is portrayed as dark and utterly evil. But there are a few mentions, An attempt is made early on to add some grey by saying Emmeryn's predecessor had brutally oppressed Plegia made war on the Grimleal, however this [[AbortedArc is dropped]], all Grimleal in the past, so relations between the two countries were naturally sour by the time she took over, and according to one conversation speculates that many members of the Grima cult treat it game are portrayed as [[CardCarryingVillain Badguys who like a normal religion. However none of this is really seen ingame, every Grima cultist member encountered is a Card-Carrying Villain for example.being bad]] with no [[ForTheEvulz real motive]].
24th Nov '16 2:58:33 PM jeez
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''Fanfiction/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', this is subverted - Most of the ponies are adamant about the fact that Chrysalis is evil incarnate and they themselves are the defenders of all things harmonious. Suffice to say, the humans (Chrysalis' lawyer Estermann in particular) are quick to contest this.
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