History Main / BettyAndVeronica

22nd Mar '17 9:50:50 AM xcountryguy
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** The first is a gender inversion, with [[NiceGuy Stephen]] as the Betty and [[UnscrupulousHero L]] as the Veronica for [[{{Tsundere}} Erin]]. Erinís relationship with Stephen is light, flirtatious but mutually supportive, while the one she had with L [[spoiler:before his death]] in [[Fanfic/StoryOfTheCentury the prequel]] was [[BelligerentSexualTension turbulent]], ambiguous and [[AMatchMadeInStockholm a bit problematic]]. Then to complicate matters, [[spoiler: L [[AndThenJohnWasAZombie comes back as Umbra]], a shinigami who remembers nothing from before but still has feelings for her nevertheless]].

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** The first is a gender inversion, with [[NiceGuy Stephen]] as the Betty and [[UnscrupulousHero L]] as the Veronica for [[{{Tsundere}} Erin]]. Erinís relationship with Stephen is light, flirtatious but mutually supportive, while the one she had with L [[spoiler:before his death]] in [[Fanfic/StoryOfTheCentury the prequel]] was [[BelligerentSexualTension turbulent]], ambiguous and [[AMatchMadeInStockholm a bit problematic]]. Then to complicate matters, [[spoiler: L [[spoiler:L [[AndThenJohnWasAZombie comes back as Umbra]], a shinigami who remembers nothing from before but still has feelings for her nevertheless]].



* In ''Fanfic/LePapillonRising'', Marinette sees Adrien as "Betty" and Papillon as "Veronica".[[spoiler: .. Until Adrien starts stalking her and acting more and more deranged. Then the Betty/Veronica thing fades.]]

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* In ''Fanfic/LePapillonRising'', Marinette sees Adrien as "Betty" and Papillon as "Veronica".[[spoiler: .."Veronica"[[spoiler:... Until Adrien starts stalking her and acting more and more deranged. Then the Betty/Veronica thing fades.]]



* A Brazilian ''sertanejo'' song called [[RichSuitorPoorSuitor "O Grafino e o Caipira"]] that tells the story of a [[UpperClassTwit rich city guy]] (the Veronica) and a [[CountryMouse hick]] (the Betty) fighting over a [[SatelliteLoveInterest pretty girl]]. [[spoiler: In the end, she gets tired of their fighting and [[TakeAThirdOption goes for]] [[ThirdOptionLoveInterest a cowboy]]]]

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* A Brazilian ''sertanejo'' song called [[RichSuitorPoorSuitor "O Grafino e o Caipira"]] that tells the story of a [[UpperClassTwit rich city guy]] (the Veronica) and a [[CountryMouse hick]] (the Betty) fighting over a [[SatelliteLoveInterest pretty girl]]. [[spoiler: In [[spoiler:In the end, she gets tired of their fighting and [[TakeAThirdOption goes for]] [[ThirdOptionLoveInterest a cowboy]]]]



* The 1987 version of the musical ''AnythingGoes'' has Hope Harcourt (Betty) and Reno Sweeney (Veronica) for Billy Crocker. Subverted in that Reno's interest in Billy is one-sided as he only has eyes for Hope. [[spoiler: Reno eventually ends up hooking up with Hope's fiancee Evelyn Oakley, effectively PairingTheSpares]]. Note, however, that the 1962 version involves no sexual or romantic tension between Billy and Reno.

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* The 1987 version of the musical ''AnythingGoes'' has Hope Harcourt (Betty) and Reno Sweeney (Veronica) for Billy Crocker. Subverted in that Reno's interest in Billy is one-sided as he only has eyes for Hope. [[spoiler: Reno [[spoiler:Reno eventually ends up hooking up with Hope's fiancee Evelyn Oakley, effectively PairingTheSpares]]. Note, however, that the 1962 version involves no sexual or romantic tension between Billy and Reno.



* The musical ''Theatre/AvenueQ'' has Princeton (Archie) going out with Kate Monster (Betty) before leaving her for Lucy T. Slut (Veronica). [[spoiler: Don't worry; in the end he goes back to Kate.]]
* ''Theatre/ThePhantomOfTheOpera'' has Christine choose between her childhood sweetheart and general KnightInShiningArmor Raoul (Betty) and the insane, brooding but more passionate Phantom. [[spoiler: Subverted, as although WordOfGod says that Christine loves The Phantom the most, in the end she chooses the Safe Option, Raoul.]]

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* The musical ''Theatre/AvenueQ'' has Princeton (Archie) going out with Kate Monster (Betty) before leaving her for Lucy T. Slut (Veronica). [[spoiler: Don't [[spoiler:Don't worry; in the end he goes back to Kate.]]
* ''Theatre/ThePhantomOfTheOpera'' has Christine choose between her childhood sweetheart and general KnightInShiningArmor Raoul (Betty) and the insane, brooding but more passionate Phantom. [[spoiler: Subverted, [[spoiler:Subverted, as although WordOfGod says that Christine loves The Phantom the most, in the end she chooses the Safe Option, Raoul.]]
19th Mar '17 2:50:13 PM nombretomado
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* TheNotoriousBIG and his well-known triangle with LilKim and FaithEvans. Which is Betty and which is Veronica is not as clear as it seems, as he and Kim were intimate for years before he met Faith.

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* TheNotoriousBIG Music/TheNotoriousBIG and his well-known triangle with LilKim Music/LilKim and FaithEvans. Which is Betty and which is Veronica is not as clear as it seems, as he and Kim were intimate for years before he met Faith.
26th Feb '17 8:34:17 PM gewunomox
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** In one of her lesser-known songs ("The Way I Loved You") TaylorSwift takes the role of Archie choosing between her current boyfriend (Betty) who she describes as "sensible" and who "calls exactly when he says he will," and her "wild and crazy" ex who is "just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated," who fills the role of Veronica. In the end, she chooses her ex.

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** In one of her lesser-known songs ("The Way I Loved You") TaylorSwift Music/TaylorSwift takes the role of Archie choosing between her current boyfriend (Betty) who she describes as "sensible" and who "calls exactly when he says he will," and her "wild and crazy" ex who is "just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated," who fills the role of Veronica. In the end, she chooses her ex.
25th Feb '17 1:00:54 PM nombretomado
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* Blonde Creator/JenniferAniston as the Betty, brunette Creator/AngelinaJolie as the Veronica, BradPitt as... Archie? The tabloids had many, many field days with this, as did the [[http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/celebrity/article6609795.ece broadsheets... ]]

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* Blonde Creator/JenniferAniston as the Betty, brunette Creator/AngelinaJolie as the Veronica, BradPitt Creator/BradPitt as... Archie? The tabloids had many, many field days with this, as did the [[http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/celebrity/article6609795.ece broadsheets... ]]
25th Feb '17 11:46:55 AM nombretomado
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* Blonde Creator/JenniferAniston as the Betty, brunette AngelinaJolie as the Veronica, BradPitt as... Archie? The tabloids had many, many field days with this, as did the [[http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/celebrity/article6609795.ece broadsheets... ]]

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* Blonde Creator/JenniferAniston as the Betty, brunette AngelinaJolie Creator/AngelinaJolie as the Veronica, BradPitt as... Archie? The tabloids had many, many field days with this, as did the [[http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/celebrity/article6609795.ece broadsheets... ]]
22nd Jan '17 11:01:23 PM Eievie
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Whom the hero will end up with varies according to medium, story, and the [[ValuesDissonance values of the time period and culture]] where the story was made. Traditionally, Betty stood a better chance, at least if the story had a HappyEnding, due to conforming to social standards, while choosing Veronica would only lead the poor sap into [[DownerEnding ruin]]. Usually, the hero would [[WrongGuyFirst spend the story chasing Veronica only to realize that Betty was The One]] -- complete with a convenient 'appreciate what you've got' or TrueBeautyIsOnTheInside Aesop. (In extreme but fairly frequent cases, he would learn that Veronica was in fact [[SurpriseIncest his illegitimate half-sister]].) A ProudBeauty Veronica often discovered, in the end, that she set her standards too high or overestimated how long her beauty would last, and finds herself an OldMaid.

However, as attitudes to what is 'appropriate' sexual conduct have liberalized, it's more accepted for Veronica to have a chance at winning a happy ending too, if not with the main hero, then as part of a BetaCouple. Movies have traditionally favored Betty, but video games, comics, and TV shows (especially long runners) have played this trope for all it's worth. In {{genderflip}}ped cases, the Veronica usually has the edge, especially if the story is [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys aimed at women]], and if the (male) Betty wins, you can bet the {{fanfic}} writers will race to [[FixFic fix that]].

to:

Whom the hero will end up with varies according to medium, story, and the [[ValuesDissonance values of the time period and culture]] where the story was made. Traditionally, Betty stood a better chance, at least if the story had a HappyEnding, due to conforming to social standards, while choosing Veronica would only lead the poor sap into [[DownerEnding ruin]]. Usually, the hero would [[WrongGuyFirst spend the story chasing Veronica only to realize that Betty was The One]] -- complete with a convenient 'appreciate "appreciate what you've got' got" or TrueBeautyIsOnTheInside Aesop. (In extreme but fairly frequent cases, he would learn that Veronica was in fact [[SurpriseIncest his illegitimate half-sister]].) A ProudBeauty Veronica often discovered, in the end, that she set her standards too high or overestimated how long her beauty would last, and finds herself an OldMaid.

However, as attitudes to what is 'appropriate' "appropriate" sexual conduct have liberalized, it's more accepted for Veronica to have a chance at winning a happy ending too, if not with the main hero, then as part of a BetaCouple. Movies have traditionally favored Betty, but video games, comics, and TV shows (especially long runners) have played this trope for all it's worth. In {{genderflip}}ped cases, the Veronica usually has the edge, especially if the story is [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys aimed at women]], and if the (male) Betty wins, you can bet the {{fanfic}} writers will race to [[FixFic fix that]].



** In an odd contrast to this lyric, ''Veronica'' was actually a big-city debutante in her initial introduction in the 1940s, in order to contrast with small-town Betty.
* Dolly Parton's famous song ''Jolene'' paints the picture of this variety of love triangle. Jolene (with her "beauty beyond compare") is the Veronica, and the singer (who "cannot compete with you, Jolene") is the Betty. The song consists of "Betty" begging Jolene not to steal her man.

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** In an odd contrast to this lyric, ''Veronica'' "Veronica" was actually a big-city debutante in her initial introduction in the 1940s, in order to contrast with small-town Betty.
* Dolly Parton's famous song ''Jolene'' "Jolene" paints the picture of this variety of love triangle. Jolene (with her "beauty beyond compare") is the Veronica, and the singer (who "cannot compete with you, Jolene") is the Betty. The song consists of "Betty" begging Jolene not to steal her man.



** In one of her lesser-known songs (The Way I Loved You) TaylorSwift takes the role of Archie choosing between her current boyfriend (Betty) who she describes as 'sensible' and who 'calls exactly when he says he will' and her 'wild and crazy' ex who is 'just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated', who fills the role of Veronica. In the end, she chooses her ex.
* A Brazilian ''sertanejo'' song called "[[RichSuitorPoorSuitor O Grafino e o Caipira]]" that tells the story of a [[UpperClassTwit rich city guy]] (the Veronica) and a [[CountryMouse hick]] (the Betty) fighting over a [[SatelliteLoveInterest pretty girl]]. [[spoiler: In the end, she gets tired of their fighting and [[TakeAThirdOption goes for]] [[ThirdOptionLoveInterest a cowboy]]]]

to:

** In one of her lesser-known songs (The ("The Way I Loved You) You") TaylorSwift takes the role of Archie choosing between her current boyfriend (Betty) who she describes as 'sensible' "sensible" and who 'calls "calls exactly when he says he will' will," and her 'wild "wild and crazy' crazy" ex who is 'just "just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated', complicated," who fills the role of Veronica. In the end, she chooses her ex.
* A Brazilian ''sertanejo'' song called "[[RichSuitorPoorSuitor O [[RichSuitorPoorSuitor "O Grafino e o Caipira]]" Caipira"]] that tells the story of a [[UpperClassTwit rich city guy]] (the Veronica) and a [[CountryMouse hick]] (the Betty) fighting over a [[SatelliteLoveInterest pretty girl]]. [[spoiler: In the end, she gets tired of their fighting and [[TakeAThirdOption goes for]] [[ThirdOptionLoveInterest a cowboy]]]]



* The video clip of Avril Lavigne's ''Girlfriend'' depicts Avril (as the Veronica) convincing the Archie to leave his uptight Betty girlfriend for her more interesting, more bullying self. Veronica wins.

to:

* The video clip of Avril Lavigne's ''Girlfriend'' "Girlfriend" depicts Avril (as the Veronica) convincing the Archie to leave his uptight Betty girlfriend for her more interesting, more bullying self. Veronica wins.



* In ''Theatre/{{Wicked}}'', Fiyero and Glinda initially bond over their self absorption and love of living it large. They start going steady. Elphaba realises she loves Fiyero the day they rescue the lion cub, he starts to realise he has feelings for her ... It sorts itself out for the best eventually.
** And then Elphaba and Glinda got WordOfGay'd. Yeah, it's complicated.
*** It's usually safe to assume that EveryoneIsBi in a Gregory Maguire story unless explicitly stated otherwise.
** It's kind of hard to say which girl is the Betty and which is the Veronica, though. If we define the Betty as the humble, relatable one and the Veronica as the glamorous, enviable one, then Elphaba would be the Betty and Glinda the Veronica. But if we define this trope as "safe choice vs. edgy choice," then the adorable, popular Glinda would be the Betty and the fiery, freakish-looking outlaw Elphaba would be the Veronica.

to:

* In ''Theatre/{{Wicked}}'', Fiyero and Glinda initially bond over their self absorption and love of living it large. They start going steady. Elphaba realises she loves Fiyero the day they rescue the lion cub, he starts to realise he has feelings for her ... her... It sorts itself out for the best eventually.
** And then Elphaba and Glinda got WordOfGay'd. Yeah, it's complicated.
*** It's usually safe to assume that EveryoneIsBi in a Gregory Maguire story unless explicitly stated otherwise.
**
eventually. It's kind of hard to say which girl is the Betty and which is the Veronica, though. If we define the Betty as the humble, relatable one and the Veronica as the glamorous, enviable one, then Elphaba would be the Betty and Glinda the Veronica. But if we define this trope as "safe choice vs. edgy choice," then the adorable, popular Glinda would be the Betty and the fiery, freakish-looking outlaw Elphaba would be the Veronica.Veronica.
** And then Elphaba and Glinda got WordOfGay'd. Yeah, it's complicated. It's usually safe to assume that EveryoneIsBi in a Gregory Maguire story unless explicitly stated otherwise.
26th Dec '16 7:21:10 PM PaulA
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* ''ComicStrip/FlashGordon'' does this several times: Flash must choose between Dale (the Betty) and Princess Aura (the Veronica); Princess Aura must choose between Flash (the Betty) and Prince Barin (the Veronica). The [[Series/FlashGordon 2007 series]] confuses things by throwing Baylin (the Veronica) into the mix. And gets canceled before a resolution can happen. Except that Baylin was more interested in Barrin than Flash in that series, and Dale and Barrin more or less hated each other. Aura did briefly fall in love with a sweet native of Mongo who could be the Betty to Flash's Veronica (seeing as Flash was an action guy from a different world), however [[spoiler:that lasted exactly one episode, with Ming strangling the poor native love interest in front of Aura]]. And then [[spoiler:it was sort of implied that Aura's long-lost brother had some... [[BrotherSisterIncest affections]] for her, which she didn't seem to return]]. 'Twas a bit screwy...

to:

* ''ComicStrip/FlashGordon'' does this several times: Flash must choose between Dale (the Betty) and Princess Aura (the Veronica); Princess Aura must choose between Flash (the Betty) and Prince Barin (the Veronica). The [[Series/FlashGordon 2007 series]] confuses things by throwing Baylin (the Veronica) into the mix. And gets canceled before a resolution can happen. Except that Baylin was more interested in Barrin than Flash in that series, and Dale and Barrin more or less hated each other. Aura did briefly fall in love with a sweet native of Mongo who could be the Betty to Flash's Veronica (seeing as Flash was an action guy from a different world), however [[spoiler:that lasted exactly one episode, with Ming strangling the poor native love interest in front of Aura]]. And then [[spoiler:it was sort of implied that Aura's long-lost brother had some... [[BrotherSisterIncest affections]] for her, which she didn't seem to return]]. 'Twas a bit screwy...
4th Dec '16 3:30:23 PM Thepenguinking2
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A very small number of these scenarios, particularly in more recent times or exotic settings, the BettyAndVeronica conflict may be resolved by the triangle becoming a OneTrueThreesome or a MarryThemAll ending. This is particularly prevalent in fan works.

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A very small number of these scenarios, particularly in more recent times or exotic settings, the BettyAndVeronica conflict may be resolved by the triangle becoming a OneTrueThreesome or a MarryThemAll ending. This is particularly prevalent in fan works.
30th Nov '16 9:50:47 AM sophiacrutchfeild
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''Fanfic/LePapillonRising'', Marinette sees Adrien as "Betty" and Papillon as "Veronica".[[spoiler: .. Until Adrien starts stalking her and acting more and more deranged. Then the Betty/Veronica thing fades.]]
10th Nov '16 5:26:24 AM troper101
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This trope is almost endlessly flexible. In a commonly-seen version, Betty is Archie's loyal comrade and usually his best friend, secretly pining for him while he ([[ObliviousToLove unaware of her feelings]]) is attracted only to Veronica, the sultry Ms. Unattainable who barely notices him. Betty, who [[IWantMyBelovedToBeHappy wants Archie to be happy]], may assist him in his pursuit of Veronica, even though we all know how much she wants him for herself. Another possibility is that Archie and Betty are already in a relationship, but then Veronica starts batting her eyelashes at him (or ''her''!), causing friction between the couple. In cases of ArrangedMarriage, Betty is the girl the parents prefer and [[ParentalMarriageVeto Veronica is the one they reject]], especially if [[IWantGrandkids children are expected]] (because Betty is more likely to want them). When Archie meets Betty and Veronica at the same time -- if they are sisters, for example -- he will fall in LoveAtFirstSight with Veronica and only notice Betty after she had time to grow on him (as, for instance, when he often comes to their parents' to try to woo Veronica).

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This trope is almost endlessly flexible. In a commonly-seen version, Betty is Archie's loyal comrade and usually his best friend, secretly pining for him while he ([[ObliviousToLove unaware of her feelings]]) is attracted only to Veronica, the sultry Ms. Unattainable who barely notices him. Betty, who [[IWantMyBelovedToBeHappy wants Archie to be happy]], may assist him in his pursuit of Veronica, even though we all know how much she wants him for herself. Another possibility is that Archie and Betty are already in a relationship, but then Veronica starts batting her eyelashes at him (or ''her''!), causing Archie and causes friction between the couple. In cases of ArrangedMarriage, Betty is the girl the parents prefer and [[ParentalMarriageVeto Veronica is the one they reject]], especially if [[IWantGrandkids children are expected]] (because Betty is more likely to want them). When Archie meets Betty and Veronica at the same time -- if they are sisters, for example -- he will fall in LoveAtFirstSight with Veronica and only notice Betty after she had time to grow on him (as, for instance, when he often comes to their parents' to try to woo Veronica).



A very small number of these scenarios, particularly in more recent times or exotic settings, the BettyAndVeronica conflict may be resolved by the triangle becoming a OneTrueThreesome, or giving them a MarryThemAll ending. This is particularly prevalent in fan works.

to:

A very small number of these scenarios, particularly in more recent times or exotic settings, the BettyAndVeronica conflict may be resolved by the triangle becoming a OneTrueThreesome, OneTrueThreesome or giving them a MarryThemAll ending. This is particularly prevalent in fan works.
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