History Main / AssociationFallacy

29th May '16 7:21:40 PM Fireblood
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** The role played by communists in civil rights movement in US, especially in 1930's, was quite large. Many prominent civil rights activists, like Paul Robeson, were either themselves were communists or sympathized with them. More mainstream civil rights organizations [[DontShootTheMessage really went out of their way to avoid communists or communist sympathizers]] to avoid being associated. Unfortunately, this also meant that the civil rights movement in the first half of 20th century [[WeAreStrugglingTogether was splintered badly]].

to:

** The role played by communists in civil rights movement in the US, especially in the 1930's, was quite large. Many prominent civil rights activists, like Paul Robeson, were either themselves were communists or sympathized with them. More mainstream civil rights organizations [[DontShootTheMessage really went out of their way to avoid communists or communist sympathizers]] to avoid being associated. Unfortunately, this also meant that the civil rights movement in the first half of 20th century [[WeAreStrugglingTogether was splintered badly]].



** Other people use a somewhat more complicated, but just as fallacious version of this argument: because Jesus's teachings and behaviors were most in line with the Essene sect, Jesus must have been an Essene, and because the Essenes were mostly vegetarian (pescatarian, actually, but they leave out that part), Jesus must have been vegetarian and because Jesus is good, vegetarianism is good and he would therefore hate killing animals as much as they do. Never mind that the Essenes weren't vegetarian out of compassion for animals, but rather because they believed anything created from sexual union was treif (unclean), while thinking that fish spawned via abiogenesis in the waters and were therefore kosher. Of course that part gets left out, too.

to:

** Other people use a somewhat more complicated, but just as fallacious version of this argument: because Jesus's teachings and behaviors were most in line with the Essene sect, Jesus must have been an Essene, and because the Essenes were mostly vegetarian (pescatarian, actually, but they leave out that part), Jesus must have been a vegetarian and because Jesus is good, vegetarianism is good and he would therefore hate killing animals as much as they do. Never mind that the Essenes weren't vegetarian out of compassion for animals, but rather because they believed anything created from sexual union was treif (unclean), while thinking that fish spawned via abiogenesis in the waters and were therefore kosher. Of course that part gets left out, too.



'''Hot Pie:''' [[AnecdotalFallacy I saw a man killing another]] at a tavern in Flea's Bottom. Stabbed right in the neck.\\

to:

'''Hot Pie:''' [[AnecdotalFallacy I saw a man killing another]] at a tavern in Flea's Bottom. Stabbed him right in the neck.\\
29th May '16 7:15:53 PM Fireblood
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** This is also often done with Hitler; adding insult to injury, Hitler also often gets used for the reverse. Also see HitlerAteSugar.

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** This is also often done with Hitler; adding insult to injury, Hitler also often gets used for the reverse. [[note]]It's unclear what exactly Hitler's religious views were. He was RaisedCatholic, though what his public statements favoring Catholicism meant versus private ones disparaging it (and Christianity) mean is hard to say. At the very least we can say he wasn't an atheist, often invoking God in his speeches, private statements and writings (the regime persecuted atheists, along with religious dissidents). Whether or not he was Christian in later life (and if so, how orthodox) is an open question.[[/note]] Also see HitlerAteSugar.
4th May '16 11:10:55 PM Fireblood
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--> "Vegetarianism then: not all it's cracked up to be. In some extreme cases may cause genocide." \\ -- Bill Bailey

to:

--> "Vegetarianism then: not all it's cracked up to be. In some extreme cases may cause genocide." \\ -- Bill Bailey



* Discussions where the subject manner can be seriously compared to Hitler (or slavery, ect.) For instance, comparing the forced labor camps, purges, ect. under Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia without making the leap that those things are bad BECAUSE Hitler/Stalin did them.

to:

* Discussions where the subject manner can be seriously compared to Hitler (or slavery, ect.etc.) For instance, comparing the forced labor camps, purges, ect.etc. under Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia without making the leap that those things are bad BECAUSE Hitler/Stalin did them.



'''Hot Pie:''' They got armour on.\\

to:

'''Hot Pie:''' They got armour armor on.\\



'''Hot Pie:''' So if they got armour on, it's a battle.\\

to:

'''Hot Pie:''' So if they got armour armor on, it's a battle.\\



'''Arya:''' Gendry's an armourer's apprentice. Hot Pie, tell Gendry what makes a fight into a battle.\\
'''Hot Pie:''' It's, uh, when they've got armour on.\\

to:

'''Arya:''' Gendry's an armourer's armorer's apprentice. Hot Pie, tell Gendry what makes a fight into a battle.\\
'''Hot Pie:''' It's, uh, when they've got armour armor on.\\



'''Hot Pie:''' Wells, cause he's got a-armour on.\\
'''Gendry:''' You don't have to be a knight to have armour. Any idiot can buy armour!\\

to:

'''Hot Pie:''' Wells, cause he's got a-armour a-armor on.\\
'''Gendry:''' You don't have to be a knight to have armour. armor. Any idiot can buy armour!\\armor!\\



'''Gendry:''' [[WhatAnIdiot Because I sold armour!]]

to:

'''Gendry:''' [[WhatAnIdiot Because I sold armour!]]
armor!]]
10th Mar '16 1:20:21 PM Josef5678
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* It has been suggested that, in the late 1960s and early '70s, some right-wing white Americans felt a particular resentment toward the CivilRightsMovement because it emerged at roughly the same time as the sexual revolution and the drug culture, and therefore the two were sometimes linked. The already widespread perception that young people in the '60s professed a great love for black music and that black music itself was inherently sexualized and contained occasional drug references (that [[EuropeansAreKinky Africans Are Kinky]], if you will) certainly didn't help. The result that was that quite a few of these people saw the hippies as basically "niggers" with white skin [[InsultBackfire (an insult that many hippies were all too happy to appropriate)]]. The association persists in the present day, particularly since UsefulNotes/BarackObama was elected President disproportionately by minorities, and his administration appears to have ushered in much more tolerance for such practices as homosexuality and birth control.

to:

* It has been suggested that, in the late 1960s and early '70s, some right-wing white Americans felt a particular resentment toward the CivilRightsMovement UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement because it emerged at roughly the same time as the sexual revolution and the drug culture, and therefore the two were sometimes linked. The already widespread perception that young people in the '60s professed a great love for black music and that black music itself was inherently sexualized and contained occasional drug references (that [[EuropeansAreKinky Africans Are Kinky]], if you will) certainly didn't help. The result that was that quite a few of these people saw the hippies as basically "niggers" with white skin [[InsultBackfire (an insult that many hippies were all too happy to appropriate)]]. The association persists in the present day, particularly since UsefulNotes/BarackObama was elected President disproportionately by minorities, and his administration appears to have ushered in much more tolerance for such practices as homosexuality and birth control.



* An anti-abortion ComicBook/ChickTract claims abortion is wrong because Hitler killed Jewish babies, and therefore doctors who carry out abortions are as bad as Hitler.
** To put it more accurately, Hitler believed both in killing Jewish babies and in ''not'' killing Aryan babies, so neither side has a leg to stand on here.

to:

* An anti-abortion ComicBook/ChickTract ''ComicBook/ChickTract'' claims abortion is wrong because Hitler killed Jewish babies, and therefore doctors who carry out abortions are as bad as Hitler.
** To
Hitler.[[note]]To put it more accurately, Hitler believed both in killing Jewish babies and in ''not'' killing Aryan babies, so neither side has a leg to stand on here.[[/note]]



* ''Series/GameOfThrones'' This exchange from "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E3WhatIsDeadMayNeverDie What Is Dead May Never Die]]". It's not precisely Honor by Association, but it certainly isn't guilt, either:

to:

* ''Series/GameOfThrones'' ''Series/GameOfThrones'': This exchange from "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E3WhatIsDeadMayNeverDie What Is Dead May Never Die]]". It's not precisely Honor by Association, but it certainly isn't guilt, either:



** Specifically-refuting the idea that an overlap between two groups is total, looks like an Association Fallacy, but isn't. The "Hitler was a vegetarian" sort of argument is most often this; not arguing that all vegetarians are genocidal dictators, but refuting the idea that vegetarians are all by definition good people. As the below example demonstrates:
** [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Otacon]] states matter-of-factly that liking dogs is irrefutable proof that a person is decent, deep down. Snake immediately points out that Hitler was a big fan of dogs. Interesting in that while it applies under this variant, the exchange is often mistaken for an example of the Argumentum Ad Hitlerium fallacy. But Snake isn't saying liking dogs is bad; he's just shooting down Otacon's fallacy by pointing out a bad person who liked dogs.

to:

** Specifically-refuting the idea that an overlap between two groups is total, looks like an Association Fallacy, but isn't. The "Hitler was a vegetarian" sort of argument is most often this; not arguing that all vegetarians are genocidal dictators, but refuting the idea that vegetarians are all by definition good people. As the below example demonstrates:
** [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Otacon]]
For example:
*** In ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid'', Otacon
states matter-of-factly that liking dogs is irrefutable proof that a person is decent, deep down. Snake immediately points out that Hitler was a big fan of dogs. Interesting in that while it applies under this variant, the exchange is often mistaken for an example of the Argumentum Ad Hitlerium fallacy. But Snake isn't saying liking dogs is bad; he's just shooting down Otacon's fallacy by pointing out a bad person who liked dogs.
21st Feb '16 6:42:19 PM LemonsAreLikeCandy13
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* RussiaIranDiscoSuck, when two things are supposedly related because the same person dislikes both.

to:

* RussiaIranDiscoSuck, Russia Iran Disco Suck, when two things are supposedly related because the same person dislikes both.
6th Feb '16 5:35:58 PM DavidDelony
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** The role played by communists in civil rights movement in US, especially in 1930's, was quite large. Many prominent civil rights activists, like Paul Robeson, were either themselves were communists or sympathized with them. More mainstream civil rights organizations really went out of their way to avoid communists or communist sympathizers to avoid being associated. Unfortunately, this also meant that civil rights movement in the first half of 20th century was splintered badly.

to:

** The role played by communists in civil rights movement in US, especially in 1930's, was quite large. Many prominent civil rights activists, like Paul Robeson, were either themselves were communists or sympathized with them. More mainstream civil rights organizations [[DontShootTheMessage really went out of their way to avoid communists or communist sympathizers sympathizers]] to avoid being associated. Unfortunately, this also meant that the civil rights movement in the first half of 20th century [[WeAreStrugglingTogether was splintered badly.badly]].
20th Dec '15 4:41:54 PM h27kim
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Added DiffLines:

** The role played by communists in civil rights movement in US, especially in 1930's, was quite large. Many prominent civil rights activists, like Paul Robeson, were either themselves were communists or sympathized with them. More mainstream civil rights organizations really went out of their way to avoid communists or communist sympathizers to avoid being associated. Unfortunately, this also meant that civil rights movement in the first half of 20th century was splintered badly.
19th Dec '15 7:17:22 PM THEBATHEAD
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* [[{{Narm}} This line]] from ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'':

to:

* [[{{Narm}} This line]] from ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'':''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Nobodies are the dark side selves of people[[/labelnote]]:
19th Dec '15 7:14:46 PM THEBATHEAD
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-> ''"If light and darkness are eternal, then surely we Nobodies are the same. Eternal!"''

to:

-> --> ''"If light and darkness are eternal, then surely we Nobodies are the same. Eternal!"''
19th Dec '15 7:14:24 PM THEBATHEAD
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Added DiffLines:

* [[{{Narm}} This line]] from ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'':
-> ''"If light and darkness are eternal, then surely we Nobodies are the same. Eternal!"''
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