History Main / ArmedWithCanon

22nd Oct '17 7:29:35 PM JoeMerl
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* In ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion,'' Yoji Enokido argued that [[spoiler:Rei II]] should survive the end of the second movie, [[SparedByTheAdaptation despite dying in the source material]]. However, at least one of the films' directors wanted to give their replacement, [[spoiler:Rei III]], more CharacterDevelopment in this adaptation, so the third movie reveals that said character did die after all. (Well, [[OnlyMostlyDead more or less]].)

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* In ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion,'' screenwriter Yoji Enokido argued that [[spoiler:Rei II]] should survive the end of the second movie, [[SparedByTheAdaptation despite dying in the source material]]. However, at least one of the films' directors wanted to give their replacement, [[spoiler:Rei III]], more CharacterDevelopment in this adaptation, so the third movie reveals that said character did die after all. (Well, [[OnlyMostlyDead more or less]].)
22nd Oct '17 7:28:54 PM JoeMerl
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* In ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion,'' Yoji Enokido argued that [[spoiler:Rei II]] should survive the end of the second movie, [[SparedByTheAdaptation despite dying in the source material]]. However, at least one of the films' directors wanted to give their replacement, [[spoiler:Rei III]], more CharacterDevelopment in this adaptation, so the third movie reveals that said character did die after all. (Well, [[OnlyMostlyDead more or less]].)
22nd Oct '17 7:36:10 AM lillolillo
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** A major part of the "Venegance" arc is discussing the idea that Spike puts the women he cares for on a pedestal and then forces them to push him away so he doesn't have to break up with them. Given this is the vampire who was slavishly devoted to Drusilla for over a hundred years and only broke up with her after she cheated on him repeatedly and refused to be with him and he never had anything resembling a high opinion of Harmony, ''and'' his famous "you're a hell of a woman" speech to Buffy it has been [[BrokenBase a contentious move]]. And then Spike, the man who has gone to ridiculous lengths to both prove his love and not be broken up with, gets it in his head that the way to break the cycle is to ''try and break up with Buffy'' just so she can call him out on it.

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** A major part of the "Venegance" "Vengeance" arc is discussing the idea that Spike puts the women he cares for on a pedestal and then forces them to push him away so he doesn't have to break up with them. Given this is the vampire who was slavishly devoted to Drusilla for over a hundred years and only broke up with her after she cheated on him repeatedly and refused to be with him and he never had anything resembling a high opinion of Harmony, ''and'' his famous "you're a hell of a woman" speech to Buffy it has been [[BrokenBase a contentious move]]. And then Spike, the man who has gone to ridiculous lengths to both prove his love and not be broken up with, gets it in his head that the way to break the cycle is to ''try and break up with Buffy'' just so she can call him out on it.



** He claimed that ''every single appearance'' of the ComicBook/PostCrisis ComicBook/{{Brainiac}} wasn't really him at all, [[ActuallyADoombot but was a Doomb... sorry, a Brainiac-probe]]. Even Milton Fine, who was taken over by nanoprobes, rather than psychically possessed by Brainiac's intelligence (as readers of the original story ''saw happen''). This isn't quite as extreme as other examples, though, since Brainiac's probes were under his total control and basically secondary bodies for him to use.

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** He claimed Claimed that ''every single appearance'' of the ComicBook/PostCrisis ComicBook/{{Brainiac}} wasn't really him at all, [[ActuallyADoombot but was a Doomb... sorry, a Brainiac-probe]].Brainiac-probe]] in ''ComicBook/SupermanBrainiac''. Even Milton Fine, who was taken over by nanoprobes, rather than psychically possessed by Brainiac's intelligence (as readers of the original story ''saw happen''). This isn't quite as extreme as other examples, though, since Brainiac's probes were under his total control and basically secondary bodies for him to use.use.
** In that same story Johns retconned ComicBook/{{Supergirl}}'s previous backstory in favor of one more in line with her Silver Age origin, minus the campiest parts. It wasn't a bad thing, though, since Post-Crisis Kara Zor-El's origins had been retconned several times previously, and Johns' updated origin stuck around because unlike the former backstories it ''worked''.



** Johns also restored the Silver Age era Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan to the "star" of the book again. Since Hal had been turned into an evil supervillain named Parallax however, this required retconning Hal's previously evil deeds by claiming "Parallax" was actually a fear-based mental parasite who was corrupting him. The fear bug is now considered a mythical part of the mythos, but almost no one could have predicted that this act would turn out as good as it has.

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** Johns also restored the Silver Age era Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan to the "star" of the book again. Since Hal again, who had been turned into an evil supervillain named Parallax however, this required retconning and killed off in a massively unpopular story. Hal's previously evil deeds were retconned by claiming "Parallax" was actually a fear-based mental parasite who was corrupting him. The fear bug is now considered a mythical part of the mythos, but almost no one could have predicted that this act would turn out as good as it has.him.
22nd Oct '17 1:01:37 AM T3rr0rd0me
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** In chapter 15 of the ''INNOCENT'' sequel manga ''[[Manga/MagicalGirlLyricalNanohaINNOCENT Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha INNOCENTS]]'', Vivio and Einhart are also present in the INNOCENT continuity. Vivio, in particular, [[HasTwoMommies is revealed to be]] [[https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_innocents_ch15#12 Fate]] and [[https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_innocents_ch15#25 Nanoha's]] [[KidFromTheFuture daughter from the future]] in this continuity. However, there's an added twist to this: Einhart heavily implies that Vivio is Nanoha and Fate's ''[[HomosexualReproduction actual biological child]]'' in the ''INNOCENT'' universe when she stops Vivio from revealing that she's Nanoha and Fate's daughter because it might cause a time paradox.
14th Oct '17 6:04:36 PM TheMountainKing
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* Creator/GregRucka's run on ''ComicBook/WonderWoman'' during the ComicBook/DCRebirth era began with an issue entirely devoted to denouncing many controversial elements of the "New 52" era comics about the character as the result of propaganda and/or malicious reality-warping.

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* Creator/GregRucka's second run on ''ComicBook/WonderWoman'' ''[[ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth Wonder Woman]]'' during the ComicBook/DCRebirth era began with an issue entirely devoted to denouncing many controversial elements of the "New 52" era comics about the character as the result of propaganda and/or malicious reality-warping.
12th Sep '17 1:06:36 AM scooter
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* Creator/RussellTDavies delivered a big one to the fates of TV companions in the Franchise/DoctorWhoExpandedUniverse during ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures'' story "[[Recap/TheSarahJaneAdventuresS4E5E6DeathOfTheDoctor Death of the Doctor]]": it's revealed that Liz Shaw was busy working on the Moon, retconning her extremely unpleasant death in one of the Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures, and that Jo Grant's still HappilyMarried to the man she gave up being a Companion for, contradicting her divorce in the Literature/EighthDoctorAdventures. At the end of the second part, Sarah Jane reveals she's been keeping tabs on other former Companions and mentions some of the things they've done since leaving the Doctor. When she mentions what's happened to Ace, it contradicts ''both'' of her previously published (and already contradictory) fates in the New Adventures and ''Magazine/DoctorWhoMagazine'' (See Comic Book folder above)
** A minor example from the same scene was that Ace was also confirmed by [[AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho Big Finish]] to be training as a ''Time Lord'' on Gallifrey, who would later go extinct. But there is still a chance she was overlooked (being human in origin) by The Doctor and retired in London.
* ''Series/DoctorWho'':

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* Creator/RussellTDavies delivered a big one to the fates of TV companions in the Franchise/DoctorWhoExpandedUniverse during ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures'' story "[[Recap/TheSarahJaneAdventuresS4E5E6DeathOfTheDoctor Death of the Doctor]]": it's revealed that Liz Shaw was busy working on the Moon, retconning her extremely unpleasant death in one of the Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures, and that Jo Grant's still HappilyMarried to the man she gave up being a Companion for, contradicting her divorce in the Literature/EighthDoctorAdventures. At the end of the second part, Sarah Jane reveals she's been keeping tabs on other former Companions and mentions some of the things they've done since leaving the Doctor. When she mentions what's happened to Ace, it contradicts ''both'' of her previously published (and already contradictory) fates in the New Adventures and ''Magazine/DoctorWhoMagazine'' (See Comic Book folder above)
** A minor example from the same scene was that Ace was also confirmed by [[AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho Big Finish]] to be training as a ''Time Lord'' on Gallifrey, who would later go extinct. But there is still a chance she was overlooked (being human in origin) by The Doctor and retired in London.
*
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* New ''Series/DoctorWho'':
** Creator/RussellTDavies delivered a big one to the fates of TV companions in the Franchise/DoctorWhoExpandedUniverse during ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures'' story "[[Recap/TheSarahJaneAdventuresS4E5E6DeathOfTheDoctor Death of the Doctor]]": it's revealed that Liz Shaw was busy working on the Moon, retconning her extremely unpleasant death in one of the Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures, and that Jo Grant's still HappilyMarried to the man she gave up being a Companion for, contradicting her divorce in the Literature/EighthDoctorAdventures.
*** At the end of the second part, Sarah Jane reveals she's been keeping tabs on other former Companions and mentions some of the things they've done since leaving the Doctor. When she mentions what's happened to Ace, it contradicts ''both'' of her previously published (and already contradictory) fates in the New Adventures and ''Magazine/DoctorWhoMagazine'' (See Comic Book folder above)
*** A minor example from the same scene was that Ace was also confirmed by [[AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho Big Finish]] to be training as a ''Time Lord'' on Gallifrey, who would later go extinct. But there is still a chance she was overlooked (being human in origin) by The Doctor and retired in London.
1st Sep '17 7:16:34 PM Anicomicgeek
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** Thanos was later the main antagonist in a high profile crossover between Comicbook/TheAvengers and the Comicbook/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy. Creator/BrianBendis' depiction of Thanos was noted to be hugely OutOfCharacter, emphasizing his more generic EvilOverlord tendencies and suddenly having him be obsessed with conquering the Earth. In Starlin's subsequent ''Infinity Revelation'' graphic novel, Thanos claimed that his recent obsession with Earth had come out of nowhere and surprised even him, and it was later revealed that his odd behavior under Bendis was actually the result of cosmic manipulations occurring ahead of a massive, universe-altering event.

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** Thanos was later the main antagonist in a high profile crossover between Comicbook/TheAvengers and the Comicbook/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy. Creator/BrianBendis' Creator/BrianMichaelBendis' depiction of Thanos was noted to be hugely OutOfCharacter, emphasizing his more generic EvilOverlord tendencies and suddenly having him be obsessed with conquering the Earth. In Starlin's subsequent ''Infinity Revelation'' graphic novel, Thanos claimed that his recent obsession with Earth had come out of nowhere and surprised even him, and it was later revealed that his odd behavior under Bendis was actually the result of cosmic manipulations occurring ahead of a massive, universe-altering event.



* Creator/KurtBusiek's ''Comicbook/UntoldTalesOfSpiderMan'' featured stories set in between and around the early stories of Spider-Man by Lee and Ditko. It stuck closely as possible to the old continuity of those issues. Many fans considered it the most entertaining Spider-Man book, especially since the series appeared around the time all the regular Spider titles were entangled in ComicBook/TheCloneSaga mess.'''Then John Byrne came along.''' ''ComicBook/SpiderManChapterOne'' was his attempt to update the old Lee and Ditko stories and he pretty much disregarded most of what Busiek had done in his Untold Tales series.
** Not too long afterwards, Paul Jenkins penned a Chameleon story-arc in ''Webspinners: Tales of Spider-Man'' - explicitly referencing his first appearance in ''Amazing Spider-Man #1'' instead of ''Chapter One''. Note that Jenkins didn't do so based on his own opinions. He simply asked editorial which story he should reference, and they answered with the original. To add insult to injury, this went down while ''Chapter One'' was still in progress - Byrne's mini-series being disregarded months before the final issue was on the stands.

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* Creator/KurtBusiek's ''Comicbook/UntoldTalesOfSpiderMan'' featured stories set in between and around the early stories of Spider-Man by Lee and Ditko. It stuck closely as possible to the old continuity of those issues. Many fans considered it the most entertaining Spider-Man book, especially since the series appeared around the time all the regular Spider titles were entangled in ComicBook/TheCloneSaga mess.'''Then John Byrne came along.''' ''ComicBook/SpiderManChapterOne'' was his attempt to update the old Lee and Ditko stories and he pretty much disregarded most of what Busiek had done in his Untold Tales series.
**
series.\\\
Not too long afterwards, Paul Jenkins penned a Chameleon story-arc in ''Webspinners: Tales of Spider-Man'' - explicitly referencing his first appearance in ''Amazing Spider-Man #1'' instead of ''Chapter One''. Note that Jenkins didn't do so based on his own opinions. He simply asked editorial which story he should reference, and they answered with the original. To add insult to injury, this went down while ''Chapter One'' was still in progress - Byrne's mini-series being disregarded months before the final issue was on the stands. Additionally, events and characters from ''Untold Tales'' have since been mentioned or referenced.
10th Aug '17 2:47:12 PM MorganWick
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** One reason there's bad blood between Creator/JohnByrne and Creator/PeterDavid has to do with Lockjaw, ComicBook/TheInhumans' dog. As created by Creator/StanLee and Creator/JackKirby, Lockjaw was just a very large, mutated dog with a normal canine intelligence level. Byrne later wrote a ''Thing'' issue in which Lockjaw spoke for the first time, begging that baby Luna not be subjected to the Terrigen Mists, since their effects weren't always pretty -- implying that he was a full-fledged Inhuman like the others. It was a touching, fan-favourite story, but it had UnfortunateImplications: the Inhumans had always treated Lockjaw as an animal, and now this was solely because he looked like one. Thus Peter David revealed that Lockjaw's "speech" had been a prank on Ben Grimm. ([[http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/002778.html As he tells it]], this was a request from editorial.) This fixed the problems with Byrne's story, but now the Inhumans were {{Jerkass}}es for a different reason: pranking Grimm in the middle of an important debate, at Lockjaw's expense. Fans of the Byrne story remain sore about this... and others remain sore about the Byrne story.
** When John Byrne took over as writer on the [[ComicBook/TheAvengers West Coast Avengers]], a title previously written by Steve Englehart, he proceeded to undermine four years' worth of characterization. ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} went from confident leader to sidelined jerk. ComicBook/TheVision and ComicBook/WonderMan relationship, that had evolved into a bond of close fraternity, returned to one of [[SiblingRivalry jealous contention]]. And ComicBook/TheVision and ComicBook/ScarletWitch marriage... was altered. [[spoiler: After the Vision lost his emotions, their children were discovered to be pieces of the devil, after which The Scarlet Witch went insane.]] For some reason Byrne decided to hit the ResetButton and return the characters to a status they had outgrown [[StatusQuoIsGod in over a decade of stories]]. Some have accused Byrne of wrecking a title that Englehart had arguably made a success out of resentment over how Englehart had written the Comicbook/FantasticFour, a title John Byrne had made a hit, although it is just as likely a case of CreativeDifferences.
** John Byrne is a self-proclaimed Golden Age Franchise/{{Superman}} fan who has reiteratedly stated he hates or dislikes most of the Silver and Bronze Ages additions to the mythos. So, what did he do when ''[[Comicbook/TheManOfSteel he got to reboot Superman]]''? He wiped out most of the stuff created post-1949: Comicbook/{{Superboy}} (which destroyed the ''Comicbook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'''s continuity, a super-team he doesn't care for), Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}, [[Comicbook/KryptoTheSuperdog Krypto]], the Fortress of Solitude, the Phantom Zone, Kandor the Bottle City, the Kryptonian lore, most of Superman's traditional Rogues... Byrne also changed Superman's personality, replacing it with George Reeves' interpretation which he happens to like more. Neither fans nor pros were amused by this, and after Byrne left his changes were gradually reversed.

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** One reason there's bad blood between Creator/JohnByrne and Creator/PeterDavid has to do with Lockjaw, ComicBook/TheInhumans' dog. As created by Creator/StanLee and Creator/JackKirby, Lockjaw was just a very large, mutated dog with a normal canine intelligence level. Byrne later wrote a ''Thing'' issue in which Lockjaw spoke for the first time, begging that baby Luna not be subjected to the Terrigen Mists, since their effects weren't always pretty -- implying that he was a full-fledged Inhuman like the others. It was a touching, fan-favourite story, but it had UnfortunateImplications: the Inhumans had always treated Lockjaw as an animal, and now this was solely because he looked like one. Thus Peter David revealed that Lockjaw's "speech" had been a prank on Ben Grimm. ([[http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/002778.html As he tells it]], this was a request from editorial.editorial; David himself didn't have a problem with the scene and wrote his retcon so that it was possible it was Quicksilver that was lying.) This fixed the problems with Byrne's story, but now the Inhumans were {{Jerkass}}es for a different reason: pranking Grimm in the middle of an important debate, at Lockjaw's expense. Fans of the Byrne story remain sore about this... and others remain sore about the Byrne story.
** When John Byrne took over as writer on the [[ComicBook/TheAvengers West Coast Avengers]], a title previously written by Steve Englehart, he proceeded to undermine four years' worth of characterization. ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} went from confident leader to sidelined jerk. ComicBook/TheVision and ComicBook/WonderMan relationship, that had evolved into a bond of close fraternity, returned to one of [[SiblingRivalry jealous contention]]. Tigra went through almost the ''exact same'' story arc of losing control of herself and succumbing to her feline side that Engelhart had put her through and seemingly resolved. And ComicBook/TheVision and ComicBook/ScarletWitch marriage... was altered. [[spoiler: After the Vision lost his emotions, their children were discovered to be pieces of the devil, after which The Scarlet Witch went insane.]] For some reason Byrne decided to hit the ResetButton and return the characters to a status they had outgrown [[StatusQuoIsGod in over a decade of stories]]. Some have accused Byrne of wrecking a title that Englehart had arguably made a success out of resentment over how Englehart had written the Comicbook/FantasticFour, a title John Byrne had made a hit, although it is just as likely a case of CreativeDifferences.
** John Byrne is a self-proclaimed Golden Age Franchise/{{Superman}} fan who has reiteratedly stated he hates or dislikes most of the Silver and Bronze Ages additions to the mythos. So, what did he do when ''[[Comicbook/TheManOfSteel [[Comicbook/TheManOfSteel he got to reboot Superman]]''? Superman]]? He wiped out most of the stuff created post-1949: Comicbook/{{Superboy}} (which destroyed the ''Comicbook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'''s continuity, a super-team he doesn't care for), Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}, [[Comicbook/KryptoTheSuperdog Krypto]], the Fortress of Solitude, the Phantom Zone, Kandor the Bottle City, the Kryptonian lore, most of Superman's traditional Rogues... Byrne also changed Superman's personality, replacing it with George Reeves' interpretation which he happens to like more. Neither fans nor pros were amused by this, and after Byrne left his changes were gradually reversed.reversed.
**Byrne has claimed that DC had told him "not to worry about" the effect jettisoning Superboy would have on the LSH (only to then learn DC had no plans to deal with it), and that since his original intent to depict a Superman initially learning the ropes was nixed by editorial, he regrets not having Superboy as an engine to tell those stories.



* The Franchise/MarvelUniverse CrisisCrossover ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion'', ''seemed'' like it was going to do this ("X wasn't really X, just a Skrull impostor!") ''much'' more than it actually did.

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* The Franchise/MarvelUniverse CrisisCrossover ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion'', ''seemed'' like it was going to do this ("X wasn't really X, just a Skrull impostor!") ''much'' more than it actually did. It didn't help that fans had high hopes that this explanation would be used to excuse the many characters they felt had been written out of character in ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', or that many of the characters that ''were'' revealed to be Skrulls were not well received.



*** While a lot of fans saw some real potential in this new origin (with Westfield being evil & Lex Luthor being an '''Evil''', super control freak desperate to get a weapon of his own against Superman), there were those who lamented the end of the original, fun loving Superboy. The fact that Superboy's development arc was suddenly CutShort during InfiniteCrisis (when the ongoing lawsuit between the Siegle/Shuster estates & DC looked like all rights to '''the Superboy concept''' would be lost) and Kon-El/Conner was killed off didn't help much. After his ressurrection in ''Legion of 3 Worlds'', fans were very happy to see him (for the most part) over these issues and much less wangsty.

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*** While a lot of fans saw some real potential in this new origin (with Westfield being evil & Lex Luthor being an '''Evil''', super control freak desperate to get a weapon of his own against Superman), there were those who lamented the end of the original, fun loving Superboy. The fact that Superboy's development arc was suddenly CutShort during InfiniteCrisis (when the ongoing lawsuit between the Siegle/Shuster estates & DC looked like all rights to '''the Superboy concept''' would be lost) and Kon-El/Conner was killed off didn't help much.much (although Johns at least tried to bring his arc to a culmination with his death). After his ressurrection in ''Legion of 3 Worlds'', fans were very happy to see him (for the most part) over these issues and much less wangsty.
2nd Aug '17 6:20:08 AM narm00
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** John Byrne is a self-proclaimed Golden Age Franchise/{{Superman}}fan who has reiteratedly stated he hates or dislikes most of Silver And Bronze Ages additions to the mythos. So, what did he do when ''[[Comicbook/TheManOfSteel he got to reboot Superman]]''? He wiped out most of stuff created post-1949: Comicbook/{{Superboy}} (which destroyed the ''Comicbook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'''s continuity, a super-team he doesn't care for), Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}, [[Comicbook/KryptoTheSuperdog Krypto]], the Fortress of Solitude, the Phantom Zone, Kandor the Bottle City, the Kryptonian lore, most of traditional Superman's Rogues... Byrne also changed Superman's personality, replacing it with George Reeves' interpretation which he happens to like more. Neither fans nor pros were amused by this, and after Byrne left his changes were gradually reversed.

to:

** John Byrne is a self-proclaimed Golden Age Franchise/{{Superman}}fan Franchise/{{Superman}} fan who has reiteratedly stated he hates or dislikes most of the Silver And and Bronze Ages additions to the mythos. So, what did he do when ''[[Comicbook/TheManOfSteel he got to reboot Superman]]''? He wiped out most of the stuff created post-1949: Comicbook/{{Superboy}} (which destroyed the ''Comicbook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'''s continuity, a super-team he doesn't care for), Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}, [[Comicbook/KryptoTheSuperdog Krypto]], the Fortress of Solitude, the Phantom Zone, Kandor the Bottle City, the Kryptonian lore, most of traditional Superman's traditional Rogues... Byrne also changed Superman's personality, replacing it with George Reeves' interpretation which he happens to like more. Neither fans nor pros were amused by this, and after Byrne left his changes were gradually reversed.



* The ''ComicBook/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' main comic book has done this in season 10 several times, usually aimed at season 6 of the show. When fighting the Soul Glutton Spike asks to be immediately staked is is soul is destroyed since he'll go back to being a souless monster, refuting a lot of his pre-Season 7 character development and even claiming he couldn't "really" love Buffy before the soul (this coming from a character who is primarily defined as being "love's bitch"). Similarly Buffy outright tells Spike she was never upset with her friends for bringing her back to life in season six, but upset ''with herself'' for being upset and missing heaven. This has caused some serious FanWank as Spike being able to love Buffy even without a soul and Buffy being upset at the Scoobies for pulling her out of heaven were very common interpretations.

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* The ''ComicBook/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' main comic book has done this in season 10 several times, usually aimed at season 6 of the show. When fighting the Soul Glutton Spike asks to be immediately staked is is if his soul is destroyed since he'll go back to being a souless monster, refuting a lot of his pre-Season 7 character development and even claiming he couldn't "really" love Buffy before the soul (this coming from a character who is primarily defined as being "love's bitch"). Similarly Buffy outright tells Spike she was never upset with her friends for bringing her back to life in season six, but upset ''with herself'' for being upset and missing heaven. This has caused some serious FanWank as Spike being able to love Buffy even without a soul and Buffy being upset at the Scoobies for pulling her out of heaven were very common interpretations.



** There are some fans theories about Thanos lying about that just to avoid admitting defeat.

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** There are some fans fan theories about Thanos lying about that just to avoid admitting defeat.



** Not too long afterwards, Paul Jenkins penned a Chameleon story-arc in ''Webspinners: Tales of Spider-Man'' - explicitly referencing his first appearance in ''Amazing Spider-Man #1'' instead of ''Chapter One''. Note that Jenkins didn't do so based on his own opinions. He simply asked editorial which story he should reference, and they answered with the original. To add insult to injury, this went down while ''Chapter One'' was still in progress - Bryne's mini-series being disregarded months before the final issue was on the stands.
* The people responsible for the ''ComicBook/AngelAfterTheFall'' comic at IDW are pissed at the people responsible for Dark Horse's ComicBook/BuffyTheVampireSlayer comic for the reveal that [[spoiler: Angel is Twilight.]] So much so, they've created promo pictures for their new ''Spike'' series wherein Spike [[spoiler: burns a Twilight mask while saying, "He's definitely not Twilight."]]

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** Not too long afterwards, Paul Jenkins penned a Chameleon story-arc in ''Webspinners: Tales of Spider-Man'' - explicitly referencing his first appearance in ''Amazing Spider-Man #1'' instead of ''Chapter One''. Note that Jenkins didn't do so based on his own opinions. He simply asked editorial which story he should reference, and they answered with the original. To add insult to injury, this went down while ''Chapter One'' was still in progress - Bryne's Byrne's mini-series being disregarded months before the final issue was on the stands.
* The people responsible for the ''ComicBook/AngelAfterTheFall'' comic at IDW are were pissed at the people responsible for Dark Horse's ComicBook/BuffyTheVampireSlayer comic for the reveal that [[spoiler: Angel is was Twilight.]] So much so, they've they created promo pictures for their new ''Spike'' series wherein Spike [[spoiler: burns burned a Twilight mask while saying, "He's definitely not Twilight."]]



* John Byrne's revival of ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol'' fused this with outright CanonDiscontinuity and CosmicRetcon by ''ignoring all but the first of the comic's previous versions'', in particular Creator/GrantMorrison's [[CultClassic beloved tenure]], which had ''itself'' been mildly fired upon during Rachel Pollack's run for Vertigo. This was rectified by Geoff Johns and Keith Giffen making ''everything'' from past writers canonical... Which, considering [[MindScrew the nature of the strip even before Morrison's entrance]], fit just fine.

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* John Byrne's revival of ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol'' fused this with outright CanonDiscontinuity and CosmicRetcon by ''ignoring all but the first of the comic's previous versions'', in particular Creator/GrantMorrison's [[CultClassic beloved tenure]], which had ''itself'' been mildly fired upon during Rachel Pollack's run for Vertigo. This was rectified by Geoff Johns and Keith Giffen making ''everything'' from past writers canonical... Which, considering [[MindScrew the nature of the strip book even before Morrison's entrance]], fit just fine.



** Valentina herself turned up towards the end of the series Checkmate, as the new White Queen and without her powers. However, a throwaway spread in Final Crisis#4 depicted a dead Negative Woman. In ''Resist'', the civilian Vostok is then shown again, under Darkseid's control. Keith Giffen decided to count the appearance of the dead Negative Woman as canonical, ignoring Vostok's later appearance, and used her in the "Blackest Night" tie-in to Doom Patrol.

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** Valentina herself turned up towards the end of the series Checkmate, ComicBook/{{Checkmate}}, as the new White Queen and without her powers. However, a throwaway spread in Final Crisis#4 ComicBook/FinalCrisis #4 depicted a dead Negative Woman. In ''Resist'', the civilian Vostok is then shown again, under Darkseid's control. Keith Giffen decided to count the appearance of the dead Negative Woman as canonical, ignoring Vostok's later appearance, and used her in the "Blackest Night" tie-in to Doom Patrol.



* The death of Ace in the final Seventh Doctor arc of the ''Magazine/DoctorWhoMagazine'' comic strip was widely seen as an aggressive attempt to prove that the comic was an AlternateContinuity to the Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures (the strip had tied into the [=NAs=] for a while beforehand, so they were retconning themselves with this as well). Following the series' return to TV, the comic's made mention of strips both during the tie-ins and after the split, but "Who" ''is'' the series that gave us the TimeyWimeyBall...

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* The death of Ace in the final Seventh Doctor arc of the ''Magazine/DoctorWhoMagazine'' comic strip was widely seen as an aggressive attempt to prove that the comic was an AlternateContinuity to the Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures (the strip had tied into the [=NAs=] for a while beforehand, so they were retconning themselves with this as well). Following the series' return to TV, the comic's made mention of strips both during the tie-ins and after the split, but then "Who" ''is'' the series that gave us the TimeyWimeyBall...



* A case that would probably be seen as an AuthorsSavingThrow if WordOfGod haven't been involved. During ''ComicBook/BattleOfTheAtom'' grown-up version of [[ComicBook/{{Runaways}} Molly Hayes]], [[EnsembleDarkhorse very popular]] KidHero, showed up as a member of evil Brotherhood of Mutants from the future, to displeasure of many fans. Later, when Creator/BrianBendis announced he'll use Brotherhood again, one of fans asked him if he's going to explain why Molly turned evil. Bendis respond by saying there was a thing he wanted to do during ''Battle Of The Atom'' but Creator/JasonAaron [[ExecutiveMeddling and editor Nick Love]] stopped him and now, when they are no longer working on X-Men books, he will have his way. Soon after it was revealed that Molly and all other members of Brotherhood (except Raze) are mind-controlled by their leader.
* During his run on Comicbook/DoctorStrange Steve Engleheart wrote a story in which Earth has been destroyed and Eternity created a perfect copy of it with all inhabitants and their memories. He also had larger arc of spirit of Ancient One testing Strange to prove he is worthy title of Sorcerer Supreme. The moment Marv Wolfman took the title, he had Strange stripped of Sorcerer Supreme rank (Wolfman felt he shouldn't have such power) and revealed the tests were manipulations of new villains, one of them claiming Earth's destruction was only an illusion.
** But wait, it gets better - after few issues story has been taken over by Jim Starlin, who proceeded to reveal that the villains themselves were just pawns of his own creation - being known as In-Betweener, who tried to fix balance between life and death that was skeved towards death because of ComicBook/{{Thanos}} and had Ancient One return to human form.
*** ''Then'' the story was taken over by Roger Stern who both did his best to connect all loose plot threads and throw some of his own. And so Strange beat In-Betweener and explained that his actions were unnecessary, because Strange himself is a countermeasure to Thanos, Ancient One casually returned to being one with the Universe, and it was directly stated Strange is as strong as ever and Sorcerer Supreme is nothing but a title. Years later he would write graphic novel in which Strange wins the title back and not only doesn't get any power boost, but now owes a favor to the guy who came in came in second.

to:

* A case that would probably be seen as an AuthorsSavingThrow if WordOfGod haven't been involved. During ''ComicBook/BattleOfTheAtom'' ''ComicBook/BattleOfTheAtom'', a grown-up version of [[ComicBook/{{Runaways}} Molly Hayes]], [[EnsembleDarkhorse very popular]] KidHero, showed up as a member of the evil Brotherhood of Mutants from the future, to the displeasure of many fans. Later, when Creator/BrianBendis announced he'll he'd use the Brotherhood again, one of fans asked him if he's he was going to explain why Molly turned evil. Bendis respond responded by saying there was a thing he wanted to do during ''Battle Of The Atom'' but Creator/JasonAaron [[ExecutiveMeddling and editor Nick Love]] stopped him him, and now, when they are with them no longer working on X-Men books, he will was able to have his way. Soon after it was revealed that Molly and all other members of the Brotherhood (except Raze) are were mind-controlled by their leader.
* During his run on Comicbook/DoctorStrange Steve Engleheart Englehart wrote a story in which Earth has been destroyed and Eternity created a perfect copy of it with all inhabitants and their memories. He also had a larger arc of the spirit of Ancient One testing Strange to prove he is was worthy of the title of Sorcerer Supreme. The moment Marv Wolfman took the title, he had Strange stripped of Sorcerer Supreme rank (Wolfman felt he shouldn't have such power) and revealed the tests were manipulations of new villains, one of them claiming Earth's destruction was only an illusion.
** But wait, it gets better - after a few issues the story has been was taken over by Jim Starlin, who proceeded to reveal that the villains themselves were just pawns of his own creation - a being known as In-Betweener, who tried to fix balance between life and death that was skeved skewed towards death because of ComicBook/{{Thanos}} and had the Ancient One return to human form.
*** ''Then'' the story was taken over by Roger Stern who both did his best to connect all loose plot threads and throw some of his own. And so Strange beat tge In-Betweener and explained that his actions were unnecessary, because Strange himself is a countermeasure to Thanos, the Ancient One casually returned to being one with the Universe, and it was directly stated Strange is as strong as ever and Sorcerer Supreme is nothing but a title. Years later he would write a graphic novel in which Strange wins the title back and not only doesn't get any power boost, but now owes a favor to the guy who came in came in second.



* Creator/GregRucka's run on ''ComicBook/WonderWoman'' during the "Rebirth" era began with an issue entirely devoted to denouncing many controversial elements of the "New 52" era comics about the character as the result of propaganda and/or malicious reality-warping.

to:

* Creator/GregRucka's run on ''ComicBook/WonderWoman'' during the "Rebirth" ComicBook/DCRebirth era began with an issue entirely devoted to denouncing many controversial elements of the "New 52" era comics about the character as the result of propaganda and/or malicious reality-warping.



** In the Hinchcliffe Era, script editor Creator/RobertHolmes spent a lot of time kicking at things from the Pertwee Era that he disliked (like the Third Doctor's BoringInvincibleHero problems) and providing explanations for NecessaryWeasel tropes in the show that had been previously ignored (AliensSpeakingEnglish, WalkingDisasterArea, HeroBall). He also retconned Time Lord society into a DeadlyDecadentCourt of elderly bureaucrats because he disliked the MarySueTopia concept that the previous era used, something that is [[FanDislikedExplanation still fairly controversial]]. He was also the first writer to confirm that regeneration can happen across gender, though he envisioned Time Lord society as a OneGenderRace of men unlike later writers.
** Philip Hinchcliffe hated the character of the Master, viewing him as a boring '[[DastardlyWhiplash music hall villain]]' and borderline IneffectualSympatheticVillain. This was why he decided to SameCharacterButDifferent him in Season 14, reimagining him as a rotting corpse cheating death by his own willpower (influenced by ''Literature/ThePhantomOfTheOpera'' and the {{Lich}} trope). When John Nathan-Turner took over the show, he [[RevisitingTheRoots changed the character back]], making him {{Camp}}ier than ever.

to:

** In the Hinchcliffe Era, era, script editor Creator/RobertHolmes spent a lot of time kicking at things from the Pertwee Era era that he disliked (like the Third Doctor's BoringInvincibleHero problems) and providing explanations for NecessaryWeasel tropes in the show that had been previously ignored (AliensSpeakingEnglish, WalkingDisasterArea, HeroBall). He also retconned Time Lord society into a DeadlyDecadentCourt of elderly bureaucrats because he disliked the MarySueTopia concept that the previous era used, something that is [[FanDislikedExplanation still fairly controversial]]. He was also the first writer to confirm that regeneration can happen across gender, though he envisioned Time Lord society as a OneGenderRace of men unlike later writers.
** Philip Hinchcliffe hated the character of the Master, viewing him as a boring '[[DastardlyWhiplash music hall villain]]' and borderline IneffectualSympatheticVillain. This was why he decided to SameCharacterButDifferent him in Season 14, reimagining him as a rotting corpse cheating death by his own willpower (influenced by ''Literature/ThePhantomOfTheOpera'' and the {{Lich}} trope). When John Nathan-Turner Creator/JohnNathanTurner took over the show, he [[RevisitingTheRoots changed the character back]], making him {{Camp}}ier than ever.



** [[DefiedTrope Defied]] by Creator/RussellTDavies and Creator/StevenMoffat (the two showrunners from the last 10 years) on the origins of The Twelfth Doctor's face, [[IdenticalStranger as he resembled a dude from Pompeii]]. They could both write their own ways on how it happened, but both brainstormed a good idea for an explanation on a later episode.

to:

** [[DefiedTrope Defied]] by Creator/RussellTDavies and Creator/StevenMoffat (the two showrunners from for the last 10 years) revival's first ten series) on the origins of The the Twelfth Doctor's face, [[IdenticalStranger as he resembled a dude from Pompeii]]. They could both write their own ways on how it happened, but both brainstormed a good idea for an explanation on a later episode.



*** The "official" TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms fan site Candlekeep has many authors answering questions on forum. This repeatedly demonstrates struggles and problems with {{continuity}} in the most detailed of massive shared worlds, and just how tricky upkeeping it can be. You usually [[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1888&whichpage=61#163396 can't write about other people's characters]] except a cameo [[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1888&whichpage=19#52887 with permission]]. Elaine Cunningham, as one of the most cautious Realms authors, frequently emphasizes it, and even she accidentally "shanghaied" Elaith: a short {{sourcebook}} entry turned out to be a character from the campaign of Ed Greenwood, who fortunately had a similar view of the elf and "let her run with" him.

to:

*** The "official" TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms fan site Candlekeep has many authors answering questions on the forum. This repeatedly demonstrates the struggles and problems with {{continuity}} in the most detailed of massive shared worlds, and just how tricky upkeeping it can be. You usually [[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1888&whichpage=61#163396 can't write about other people's characters]] except as a cameo [[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1888&whichpage=19#52887 with permission]]. Elaine Cunningham, as one of the most cautious Realms authors, frequently emphasizes it, and even she accidentally "shanghaied" Elaith: a short {{sourcebook}} entry turned out to be a character from the campaign of Ed Greenwood, who fortunately had a similar view of the elf and "let her run with" him.



** Ironically, or [[ShroudedInMyth appropriately]], the many attempts to establish or retcon the history of the Alpha Legion and its actions during the ''Literature/HorusHeresy'' are one and all entirely in character for the legion whom nobody knows much of anything about. Given that most inconsistencies and contradictions in the TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 universe are explained away as a combination of being propaganda and misinformation, the fact that ''WordOfGod'' ended up unintentionally doing this themselves in regards to a legion that takes that as it's MO is a bit of accidental fridge brilliance.

to:

** Ironically, or [[ShroudedInMyth appropriately]], the many attempts to establish or retcon the history of the Alpha Legion and its actions during the ''Literature/HorusHeresy'' are one and all entirely in character for the legion whom nobody knows much of anything about. Given that most inconsistencies and contradictions in the TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 universe are explained away as a combination of being propaganda and misinformation, the fact that ''WordOfGod'' ended up unintentionally doing this themselves in regards to a legion that takes that as it's its MO is a bit of accidental fridge brilliance.
31st Jul '17 8:49:59 PM Daedalis
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* For decades ComicBook/RedSonja's backstory included that she was granted her fighting skill by a goddess on condition that she not sleep with any man unless he first beat her in combat. So it went until Creator/GailSimone took over in the Dynamite run and introduced Osric the Untouched, a male swordsman under the same condition. Sonja promptly calls it out as stupid, explicitly jettisoning it out of her past.
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